Post by: CC27 on January 15, 2016, 01:17:54 PM
Quote
Star Member MineralMan (79,612 posts)
Single Payer Healthcare Is What We Need
It's also going to be very, very hard to get. We won't get it until we get supermajorities in both houses of Congress and a Democrat in the White House at the same time. I don't see that coming anytime soon.
It's a hard sell, too, to voters. The problem comes because it has to be paid for, even though it will cost less, overall, than the miserable system we have now. Explaining that is a very, very difficult problem for any candidate for office. Here's why:
First, most people have no idea what their healthcare actually costs. Most people work for an employer that pays the lion's share of health insurance costs. Self-employed people and people who don't have an employer-subsidized health insurance policy know what the cost is. Many can simply not afford the cost. ACA was an attempt to help, and it did help many people, but self-employed people and employees of small businesses still have to come up with the premium and that's tough.
Medicare for All is a great idea, but it's not free. The same things that apply to private insurance apply to it, even if the cost per person is somewhat lower. Employers would be paying most of the bill for their employees, just as they do now. Self-employed and employees of exempt businesses would still be paying the Medicare for All premiums, too. Now, the cost would be lower, since there wouldn't be hundreds of companies supplying the coverage, each with it's own complex administrative costs, but the premiums would still be higher than most people could easily afford.
ACA has subsidies for lower-income people, and Medicaid offers support for even lower-income people. Oldsters who are getting Medicare also are subsidized, and their premiums are quite low. For me, my premiums for Part B and a private supplement come to about $220 per month. That's way better than the $800 per month I was paying before turning 65.
But, there are still premiums that have to be paid, one way or another. When politicians who support Medicare for All or some other single-payer system talk about it, the question of how it will be finance always enters the discussion. It's really difficult to explain in a way that doesn't sound like some new tax. That's why Bernie isn't disclosing how his plan will pay for coverage. It will sound like a new tax. It's that simple.
Smart people understand that they're already paying for their own health care, one way or another, even if it's subsidized by their employer or Social Security Medicare payments they've made for years. Those who already pay for their own health insurance understand the concept, but they are few in number. Medicaid recipients pay the least, but still pay in many cases, and deal with all sorts of other issues to get any healthcare at all.
People automatically reject any new taxes. It's visceral. They don't want them. They reject them, and they reject politicians who say anything like the idea that they have to contribute to their healthcare.
All of that is why it will take a supermajority in both houses of Congress and a Democratic President to make any single payer system happen. People don't understand it, and they don't like the idea of paying anything for it, even if it's for their own benefit. Bernie Sanders can't provide it. Nobody can, until we get those supermajorities. It's not going to happen until then. It's a moot issue, frankly, until then. We'll be lucky to keep ACA. The Republicans have voted to repeal it how many times already? Trust me, they'll just keep right on doing that. Goodness help us if we end up with a Republican President!
Then move to one of your favorite socialist hell holes and get your care. Oh wait, they won't allow you into their country. You are too lazy.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511011123
Post by: FlaGator on January 15, 2016, 01:20:28 PM
Post by: BannedFromDU on January 15, 2016, 01:34:56 PM
How about pay the bill from your own funds. Can't get much more single payer than that.
I wish they'd just call it "Someone Else Payer" instead of "Single Payer." That is what they mean, period.
Post by: fatboy on January 15, 2016, 01:40:14 PM
Post by: Carl on January 15, 2016, 02:04:37 PM
Post by: BannedFromDU on January 15, 2016, 02:13:07 PM
The ones screaming for it are the ones that don`t expect or intend to pay a penny for it.
The moral hazard problem is too large to fathom: liberals with nothing but time on their hands to shoot up drugs, insert things in their asses, attack cops and get shot, and eat like a DUmmy, and then run off to the hospital when they need a hangnail fixed. Worthless dicks.
Post by: Bad Dog on January 15, 2016, 03:52:15 PM
The ones screaming for it are the ones that don`t expect or intend to pay a penny for it.
That isn't the half of it. DUmmies don't realize the govt. will need drug tests, weigh ins, and mandatory healthy lifestyle counseling to keep their medical costs down. And when it comes time for treatment, they will go on their knees to a bureaucrat to beg for it. And, hopefully, they will get an O'bumma pill.
Post by: 67 Rover on January 15, 2016, 04:08:18 PM
Let's start with a small populace in a socialist state so that you would get enthusiastic support needed to not contaminate the results, how about Vermont? Ready? set. Go! :popcorn:
Post by: BannedFromDU on January 15, 2016, 04:10:18 PM
I am open to an experiment to see if you can make it work then we can discuss if you have any quantifiable success at all.
Let's start with a small populace in a socialist state so that you would get enthusiastic support needed to not contaminate the results, how about Vermont? Ready? set. Go! :popcorn:
And increase all of their taxes to pay for it, as is done in Europe. Choose, DUmmies: single payer, or negative income tax. Can't have both.
Post by: thundley4 on January 15, 2016, 05:45:10 PM
Quote
First, most people have no idea what their healthcare actually costs. Most people work for an employer that pays the lion's share of health insurance costs.
I quit reading the DUmmie's post right there. He is obviously unemployed and don't know shit about ObamaCare. Obama force employers to put the cost of health insurance on W-2 forms. If you don't have a job, you wouldn't know that.
Post by: Patriot Guard Rider on January 15, 2016, 05:52:22 PM
Now, the cost to the individual may fall somewhat, but how will they explain the 25% VAT that is sure to come, along with a national sales tax, plus any other taxes ole rumple hair can come up with. Single payer is exceptionally expensive, even moreso than jugearsCare, but you can't convince them of that. They're sure they've reached nirvana.
Liberals disgust me.
Post by: landofconfusion80 on January 15, 2016, 07:07:04 PM
I am open to an experiment to see if you can make it work then we can discuss if you have any quantifiable success at all.They wanted to, but they couldn't even afford it in vermont. And we laughed and laughed
Let's start with a small populace in a socialist state so that you would get enthusiastic support needed to not contaminate the results, how about Vermont? Ready? set. Go!opcorn:
Post by: I_B_Perky on January 15, 2016, 07:24:50 PM
Don't believe me? Ask any health care provider. They are losing money.
I have a better idea. Give all the people that served in the military insurance so they can go where they want and send the medicare-for-all champions to the VA. You will soon see what free healthcare is like. As an added bonus, the VA will more than likely wind up killing all of you parasites sooner or later. Don't want to travel to go to the free hospital? Tough shit. It is free.
Post by: Carl on January 15, 2016, 07:43:01 PM
Quote
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511006248
Thu Jan 14, 2016, 10:57 AM
Yavin4 (21,377 posts)
If you want Single Payer, are you willing to impose a national sales tax to pay for it?
Because that's how European nations pay for their social services, through sales taxes. To get political support for this, you have to campaign for it and get a consensus of Americans to buy into the plan.
It is exhausting and nauseating to read through as it is a textbook of naivete,"sure...I will pay less" with no consideration of actual real life consequences to a majority of tax the rich for it responses.
These creatures are literally a ball and chain around the neck of American greatness.
I wouldn`t piss on them if they were on fire.
Post by: landofconfusion80 on January 15, 2016, 07:49:50 PM
Post by: Patriot Guard Rider on January 15, 2016, 07:53:59 PM
Another monster thread.
It is exhausting and nauseating to read through as it is a textbook of naivete,"sure...I will pay less" with no consideration of actual real life consequences to a majority of tax the rich for it responses.
These creatures are literally a ball and chain around the neck of American greatness.
I wouldn`t piss on them if they were on fire.
Here is the deal. Those idiots at DU DON'T believe they'll have to pay into the pot. they're all happy thinking the "rich" will pay for it. Once they find out THEY have to pay too, the howls will be epic.
Post by: CollectivismMustDie on January 16, 2016, 06:56:06 PM
Quote
Star Member MineralMan (79,612 posts)
Single Payer Healthcare Is What We Need
It's also going to be very, very hard to get. We won't get it until we get supermajorities in both houses of Congress and a Democrat in the White House at the same time. I don't see that coming anytime soon.
It's a hard sell, too, to voters. The problem comes because it has to be paid for, even though it will cost less, overall, than the miserable system we have now. Explaining that is a very, very difficult problem for any candidate for office. Here's why:
First, most people have no idea what their healthcare actually costs. Most people work for an employer that pays the lion's share of health insurance costs. Self-employed people and people who don't have an employer-subsidized health insurance policy know what the cost is. Many can simply not afford the cost. ACA was an attempt to help, and it did help many people, but self-employed people and employees of small businesses still have to come up with the premium and that's tough.
Medicare for All is a great idea, but it's not free. The same things that apply to private insurance apply to it, even if the cost per person is somewhat lower. Employers would be paying most of the bill for their employees, just as they do now. Self-employed and employees of exempt businesses would still be paying the Medicare for All premiums, too. Now, the cost would be lower, since there wouldn't be hundreds of companies supplying the coverage, each with it's own complex administrative costs, but the premiums would still be higher than most people could easily afford.
ACA has subsidies for lower-income people, and Medicaid offers support for even lower-income people. Oldsters who are getting Medicare also are subsidized, and their premiums are quite low. For me, my premiums for Part B and a private supplement come to about $220 per month. That's way better than the $800 per month I was paying before turning 65.
But, there are still premiums that have to be paid, one way or another. When politicians who support Medicare for All or some other single-payer system talk about it, the question of how it will be finance always enters the discussion. It's really difficult to explain in a way that doesn't sound like some new tax. That's why Bernie isn't disclosing how his plan will pay for coverage. It will sound like a new tax. It's that simple.
Smart people understand that they're already paying for their own health care, one way or another, even if it's subsidized by their employer or Social Security Medicare payments they've made for years. Those who already pay for their own health insurance understand the concept, but they are few in number. Medicaid recipients pay the least, but still pay in many cases, and deal with all sorts of other issues to get any healthcare at all.
People automatically reject any new taxes. It's visceral. They don't want them. They reject them, and they reject politicians who say anything like the idea that they have to contribute to their healthcare.
All of that is why it will take a supermajority in both houses of Congress and a Democratic President to make any single payer system happen. People don't understand it, and they don't like the idea of paying anything for it, even if it's for their own benefit. Bernie Sanders can't provide it. Nobody can, until we get those supermajorities. It's not going to happen until then. It's a moot issue, frankly, until then. We'll be lucky to keep ACA. The Republicans have voted to repeal it how many times already? Trust me, they'll just keep right on doing that. Goodness help us if we end up with a Republican President!
You could have just saved a whole lot of time and typing, by saying:
"Other people paying for our healthcare is what we need".
DUmbass.
:bigbird:
CMD