The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on November 16, 2015, 10:44:19 AM
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Recursion (42,842 posts) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027349782
The answer is Kurdistan
If there's one missing link here, one magic key, that's it: Kurdistan.
The Peshmerga are the only militias that have consistently handed ISIS's asses to them, over and over again, when they try to attack.
The Kurds are our only consistent ally in Iraq or Syria. Or even Turkey, despite Turkey being our ally.
Kurdistan is going to happen, one way or another, and it would be to the US's interest to be part of that. We really need to face up to this.
This will take re-drawing the borders of Syria and Iraq, and possibly of Turkey and Iran (I'm going to say those last too will take a while). But it's going to happen with us or without us.
Conservatives have been saying arm the Kurds for years and Barry refuses. We think it's because he hates the sunni off-sect and backs the shi'i of Iran... Who really knows.
uawchild (488 posts)
1. Please elaborate..
A Kurdistan state is the answer to what?
The Kurds are fairly secular sunni moslems, but not ethnic Arabs -- hence Kurds are suspect in the eyes of Shiite factions and Arab Wahhabist islamist alike. What would a Kurdistan state achieve besides providing a degree of stability for, well, Kurds?
The formation of a Kurdistan state is anathema to NATO ally Turkey and is one reason Turkey has supported/turned a blind eye to ISIS since ISIS was fighting Kurds along Syria's border with Turkey. Seems like Kurdistan is just another can of worms in a region already filled with the same.
As a whole, the Kurdish people are adherents to a large number of different religions and creeds, perhaps constituting the most religiously diverse people of West Asia. Traditionally, Kurds have been known to take great liberties with their practices. This sentiment is reflected in the saying "Compared to the unbeliever, the Kurd is a Muslim"
Today, the majority of Kurds are Sunni Muslim, belonging to the Shafi school. Ahl-i Haqq or Yarsanism is a syncretic religion founded by Sultan Sahak in the late 14th century in western Iran. Most of its adherents, totaling around 1 million, are Kurds. Its central religious text is the Kalâm-e Saranjâm, written in Gurani. In this text, the religion's basic pillars are summarized as: "The Yarsan should strive for these four qualities: purity, rectitude, self-effacement and self-abnegation". Yazidism is another syncretic religion practiced among Kurdish communities, founded by Sheikh Adi ibn Musafir, an 12th-century mystic from Lebanon. Their numbers exceed 500,000. Its central religious texts are the Kitêba Cilwe and Meshaf Resh. Although historically there have been various accounts of Kurdish Christians, most often these were in the form of individuals, and not as communities. However, in the 19th and 20th century various travel logs tell of Kurdish Christian tribes, as well as Kurdish Muslim tribes who had substantial Christian populations living amongst them. A significant number of these were allegedly originally Armenian or Assyrian, and it has been recorded that a small number of Christian traditions have been preserved.
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Great post, Dutch. But in simpler terms, the Kurds are in it for Kurdish nationality purposes, not to be our legmen or stooges, not to eradicate ISIS wherever it may be, and notwithstanding the contrary desires by any of the other players like the governments of Turkey, Syria, Iran, Iraq, or Russia.
The whole paralysis and or panicked shrieking induced by the mention of 'Boots on the ground' by both of our parties is a barrier to ever beating ISIS. No amount of SOCOM raids, proxy soldiers, infrequent and over-controlled air attacks with the most restrictive ROE possible, and drone strikes that occasionally kill someone important (Just promotion opportunities for the next tier, really), are going to actually knock off ISIS. It will ultimately take some admixture of modern Western or Russian ground forces alongside the locals to stiffen and lead those locals in full-strength combat operations to boot ISIS out. I don't think the West has the balls for it. I don't know if the Russians are smart enough for it.
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Great post, Dutch. But in simpler terms, the Kurds are in it for Kurdish nationality purposes, not to be our legmen or stooges, not to eradicate ISIS wherever it may be, and notwithstanding the contrary desires by any of the other players like the governments of Turkey, Syria, Iran, Iraq, or Russia.
The whole paralysis and or panicked shrieking induced by the mention of 'Boots on the ground' by both of our parties is a barrier to ever beating ISIS. No amount of SOCOM raids, proxy soldiers, infrequent and over-controlled air attacks with the most restrictive ROE possible, and drone strikes that occasionally kill someone important (Just promotion opportunities for the next tier, really), are going to actually knock off ISIS. It will ultimately take some admixture of modern Western or Russian ground forces alongside the locals to stiffen and lead those locals in full-strength combat operations to boot ISIS out. I don't think the West has the balls for it. I don't know if the Russians are smart enough for it.
Thanks, Dumbass. (I really replied just to say that)...
:-)
Why don't the Kurds trust anyone? [see history]
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Thanks, Dumbass. (I really relied just to say that)...
:-)
Why don't the Kurds trust anyone? [see history]
"Replied," genius.
And, Kurds among everyone else, it beats the shit out of me why ANYONE would trust us, given the wild swings in our foreign policy every time the parties controlling the Administrations or Congress switch, most markedly starting with our complete blow-off of the treaty when South Viet Nam was invaded by the North.
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"Replied," genius.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b190/Tao_Orii_13/Expressions/BITCHSLAP.gif)
:-)
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Rick James says knock it off!
(http://media.giphy.com/media/wDlWKjDCTf2PC/giphy.gif)