The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dutch508 on July 26, 2008, 08:12:08 AM
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cbc5g (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 08:33 PM
Original message http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3677795
The face of an innocent girl killed by marijuana prohibition
Advertisements [?]The police that got her killed express no remorse insisting she was a criminal. This is another face of the thousands who have died at the hands of corrupt politicians and police agencies that believe marijuana is a threat to society.
(http://stash.norml.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/hoffman.jpg)
http://blog.norml.org/2008/07/25/abc-news-tonight-the-t...
Rachel Hoffman is dead.
Rachel Hoffman, like many young adults, occasionally smoked marijuana.
But Rachel Hoffman is not dead as a result of smoking marijuana; she is dead as a result of marijuana prohibition.
Under prohibition, Rachel faced up to five years in prison for possessing a small amount of marijuana.
Under prohibition, the police in Rachel’s community viewed her as nothing more than a common “criminal,†and threatened her with years in jail unless she cooperated with them as an untrained, unsupervised confidential informant.
Under prohibition, the law enforcement officers responsible for placing Rachel in the very situation that resulted in her murder have failed to publicly express any remorse — because, after all, under prohibition Rachel Hoffman was no longer a human being deserving of such sympathies.
Tonight, ABC’s 20/20 will shed a national spotlight on the tragedy surrounding Rachel Hoffman’s untimely death — and the tragedy that is marijuana prohibition.
app_farmer_rb (536 posts) Fri Jul-25-08 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Fortunately, 'our guy' feels otherwise:
Back in January, Obama was among the Democrats who expressed a sensible and harm-reducing view. I don't have a link for the debate's transcript, but here is my commentary on it shortly afterward:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/app_farmer_rb...
After being caught twice with a “baggie†of marijuana, 23-year old Rachel Hoffman was reportedly told by police in Tallahassee, Florida that she would go to prison for four years unless she became an undercover informant.
The young woman, a recent graduate of Florida State University, was murdered during a botched sting operation two months ago.
Her case will be profiled Friday on 20/20.
“The idea of waging a war on drugs is to protect people and here it seems like we’re putting people in harm’s way,†said Lance Block, a lawyer hired by Rachel’s parents.
The Florida Attorney General’s office says it is reviewing the procedures and protocol of the Tallahassee police.Rachel’s case also has raised new questions about state and federal laws related to marijuana possession.
“I’m calling her a criminal,†Tallahassee police chief Dennis Jones told 20/20, who maintains that both drug dealers and drug users are considered criminals to his department.
Under Florida law, possession of more than 20 grams of marijuana is a felony.
Rachel was also found in possession of two ecstasy pills, a felony under Florida law no matter the quantity because it “has a high potential for abuse and has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.â€
The Tallahassee police chief says Rachel was suspected of selling drugs and she was rightly treated as a criminal.
… Watch the story Friday on “20/20″ at 10 p.m. ET.
Once we get Obama into the White House, let's end this war!
-app
The war on drugs he means...
aspergris (842 posts) Fri Jul-25-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Spare me the crap
It is NOT police agency's fault. I'm a cop, and I'm strongly against the war on drugs in general, and totally against mj criminalization. Groovy. But I have ONE vote.
It is the POLITICIANS who pass the laws that criminalize mj and it is THEY who are to blame.
NOT cops.
We have to enforce the laws, and while we have some discretion for minor offenses, we don't write these stupid laws that we end up having to enforce.
NO major democratic or republican candidate supported MJ decrim/legalization. IIrc, Sharpton, Kucinich, and Ron Paul did.
So, blame frigging Obama and McCain before you blame us, because NEITHER will push for MJ decrim, nor will most of the congressional people we vote in either.
MJ prohibition IS a tragedy. Blame the right frigging people. THe people who MAKE the laws. Not us
chisel chisel chisel...
High Plains (1000+ posts) Fri Jul-25-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Her decision, right: Snitch or go to prison.
Quit playing innocent cop. You're not. Your cop lobbies are working overtime all the time for more and tougher drug laws, fewer constitutional protections, and more money more money more money. To say you're just enforcing the law is bullshit.
Get back to me when you join LEAP and go public with your opposition to the drug war. And let me know when the FOP or the IACP or any other of your organizations start calling for change
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****ING PIG!!!!
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How come their not screaming "Why it got to be about all the pretty WHITE girls?" Oh .... wait ..... this is about dope. Disregard.
:fuelfire:
KC
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Tell you what DUmbasses,the day you put as much effort into being a contributing,productive member of society as you do trying to get stoned out of your stupid mind I will listen.
You are looking for an escape from reality not a way to enhance life so don`t pretend otherwise.
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I do feel for her family. She choose to do drugs and she paid the ultimate price which happens quite often to pushers and drug users. If she was a pusher and got killed by a rival gangbanger, she would still be dead and this would be a non story. Also, it is better she died than an undercover lady police officer in my opinion.
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Under prohibition, the police in Rachel’s community viewed her as nothing more than a common “criminal,â€
As ridiculous as I think the WODs is, it is the law of the land in many places. Rachel IS (was) a "common criminal." You don't get to evaluate which laws are good and which laws are bad.
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If you smoke Marijuana, stay out of Florida. Problem solved. Am I missing something?
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What happened to "The Rule Of Law"? I guess all laws aren't equal after all. I guess "The Rule Of Law" applies only to the Bush Administration.
Hey, DUmbasses! Marijuana/other drugs are FAR FAR from harmless. Their use doesn't make you smarter and more in tune. They makes you an easy-to-control blank slate with no capacity for rational judgment. Look at DU. Look at all leftist plebes gathering places. They are full of crazy-ass mental cases like that panther woman and that creepy greenbriar.
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Let me get this straight, she broke the law, was given a choice of cooperating or jail, got killed by drug dealers and it is marijuana prohibition that is to blame? My ass.
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This story isn't just about a girl dabbling in marijuana. There's a little more to it that the DUmmies seem to be ignoring.
According to this story (http://tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080509/NEWS01/805090343/0/COMP), she had enough marijuana and ecstacy on her person that it becomes intent to sell by law. She was facing felony charges when she agreed to work undercover.
I'm sorry she lost her life in this way but she made the choice to venture into the drug world. As so often happens, that's where her life ended.
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Bitch shoulda ducked.
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The problem with these "drug offenders" is that most of them commit other crimes (burglary, robbery, identity theft, etc.) to support their habits. That may not be the case with this girl's marijuana use, but the drug business is a dangerous game.
I have my own stable of snitches. When I sign a new one up they always ask two questions.
Q: "What am I getting out of this?" A: "Not being ass-raped in prison."
Q: "What's the downside?" A: "The guy you're snitching on could kill you."
I make it perfectly clear that there is danger involved in their service. I also make it clear that although I will protect their identity, the bad guy may still figure it out. The CI actually signs a contract stating that he/she is aware that neither I nor the department are responsible for their safety.
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I love the way the DUchebags gloss over the fact that someone actually murdered her.
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I love the way the DUchebags gloss over the fact that someone actually murdered her.
That's because the misunderstood thug's mother didn't love him enough.......or because this horrible * economy pushed him into selling drugs........or because of the availability of guns. It will be anyone's fault but the murderer's to the DUmmies.
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Tantal, for the two posts immediately above mine, H5.
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From the OP's blog link:
Under prohibition, Rachel faced up to five years in prison for possessing a small amount of marijuana.
From the original article:
Rachel Morningstar Hoffman, 23, a 2007 Florida State University graduate, was found dead in rural Taylor County early Friday after two men suspected in her kidnapping and robbery led investigators to her body. Murder charges are pending, according to the Tallahassee Police Department.
Hoffman was facing charges of possession of ecstasy with intent to sell, possession of a controlled substance with intent to sell, maintaining a drug house and possession of drug paraphernalia, Jones said.
http://blog.norml.org/2008/07/25/abc-news-tonight-the-tragic-death-of-rachel-hoffman-and-the-tragedy-that-is-pot-prohibition/
Tragic, but hardly innocent. I used to be a dumb doper, but at least I knew better than to try and sell the stuff.
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Rachel's case also is raising questions about how police recruit and use informants in undercover operations.
"There need to be some safeguards here," said Block, the Hoffman family lawyer.
The young woman received no training before being sent to an undercover meeting to buy a large amount of drugs and a handgun from two suspects.
Police says Rachel was killed by the very handgun she was supposed to buy.
"I don't think she understood the risk or danger that she was in," said Block.
Rachel was in a drug court diversion program when she became an informant.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/print?id=5442615
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She was a druggie that's for sure and she had some time coming but her crimes did not carry a death penalty. She should not have been placed in a situation where she could be killed. My feeling is that the police are abusing these "snitch" programs and in the process getting people killed, it's rediculous.
I know she signed the paperwork but I am sure she wasn't told she could be murdered. Cops piss me off and this war on drugs is out of control. Just because a person is doing drugs does not mean that they are expendable. The cops in this story put a girl in harms way to protect their own cowardly asses. :banghead:
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She was a druggie that's for sure and she had some time coming but her crimes did not carry a death penalty. She should not have been placed in a situation where she could be killed. My feeling is that the police are abusing these "snitch" programs and in the process getting people killed, it's rediculous.
I know she signed the paperwork but I am sure she wasn't told she could be murdered. Cops piss me off and this war on drugs is out of control. Just because a person is doing drugs does not mean that they are expendable. The cops in this story put a girl in harms way to protect their own cowardly asses. :banghead:
Bitch slap to Bondai for sounding like a DUmmie. She knew the risks. If she wasn't willing to accept them, she should've just done her time like everybody else. The narcotics game is a dangerous business. I don't know why some people insist that law enforcement try to make it safe.
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She was a druggie that's for sure and she had some time coming but her crimes did not carry a death penalty. She should not have been placed in a situation where she could be killed. My feeling is that the police are abusing these "snitch" programs and in the process getting people killed, it's rediculous.
I know she signed the paperwork but I am sure she wasn't told she could be murdered. Cops piss me off and this war on drugs is out of control. Just because a person is doing drugs does not mean that they are expendable. The cops in this story put a girl in harms way to protect their own cowardly asses. :banghead:
Bitch slap to Bondai for sounding like a DUmmie. She knew the risks. If she wasn't willing to accept them, she should've just done her time like everybody else. The narcotics game is a dangerous business. I don't know why some people insist that law enforcement try to make it safe.
BS me all you want. The cops should not be placing people in situations where they could be killed, it's criminal. The girl could quite possibly have been helped and lived a productive life, now she is dead. She died doing a job we pay cops to do and for which she was not qualified.
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The one article said that she left the area that was under surveillance to go meet the other people. They had tried and failed to stop her.
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Gee, it sounds kinda like she coulda saved her own life by just NOT ****ING AROUND WITH DRUGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
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Gee, it sounds kinda like she coulda saved her own life by just NOT ******* AROUND WITH DRUGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
How dare you suggest that someone take personal responsibility for their lives!!1!1!! You sound like some kind of Rethug Freeper to me. :-)
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Damn, you're good!!!
:-)
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She was a druggie that's for sure and she had some time coming but her crimes did not carry a death penalty. She should not have been placed in a situation where she could be killed. My feeling is that the police are abusing these "snitch" programs and in the process getting people killed, it's rediculous.
I know she signed the paperwork but I am sure she wasn't told she could be murdered. Cops piss me off and this war on drugs is out of control. Just because a person is doing drugs does not mean that they are expendable. The cops in this story put a girl in harms way to protect their own cowardly asses. :banghead:
Bitch slap to Bondai for sounding like a DUmmie. She knew the risks. If she wasn't willing to accept them, she should've just done her time like everybody else. The narcotics game is a dangerous business. I don't know why some people insist that law enforcement try to make it safe.
BS me all you want. The cops should not be placing people in situations where they could be killed, it's criminal. The girl could quite possibly have been helped and lived a productive life, now she is dead. She died doing a job we pay cops to do and for which she was not qualified.
We use snitches because the smarter crooks won't do business with someone they don't know. Judging from the facts of the case, this girl was in "middle management" of the local drug trade. The next highest guy in the pecking order would not sell to just anyone, that's what he had her for. Officer Smith can't just walk up to their suspect and order 20 pounds of weed and 500 hits of "X". If he did, the first words out of the crook's mouth would be "who the F$*k are you?!". Tragic as it is, it's just how the game gets played.
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She was a druggie that's for sure and she had some time coming but her crimes did not carry a death penalty. She should not have been placed in a situation where she could be killed. My feeling is that the police are abusing these "snitch" programs and in the process getting people killed, it's rediculous.
I know she signed the paperwork but I am sure she wasn't told she could be murdered. Cops piss me off and this war on drugs is out of control. Just because a person is doing drugs does not mean that they are expendable. The cops in this story put a girl in harms way to protect their own cowardly asses. :banghead:
Bitch slap to Bondai for sounding like a DUmmie. She knew the risks. If she wasn't willing to accept them, she should've just done her time like everybody else. The narcotics game is a dangerous business. I don't know why some people insist that law enforcement try to make it safe.
BS me all you want. The cops should not be placing people in situations where they could be killed, it's criminal. The girl could quite possibly have been helped and lived a productive life, now she is dead. She died doing a job we pay cops to do and for which she was not qualified.
bitchslapped because I am intot hat sort of thing...
:naughty:
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BS, Bondai because that is how it's done.
The criminals she was dealing with are guys you do not cross. Ever. They don't have the regular slate of judges available to them, so typically Judge Colt settles their disputes. His decisions usually do not allow for appeals.
She was just a number to them. Just as a fry cook at McDonald's is replaced the day after he quits, she could have walked away and they would have another druggie drug dealer working the street tomorrow.
If she developed a history of trading drugs, the cops would eventually ship her up to state. Getting her to snitch nabs them a bigger fish, she would have been given a chance to clean up and clear out.
The cops were offering her a better deal than hew other business relationship was, even at greater risk.
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The one article said that she left the area that was under surveillance to go meet the other people. They had tried and failed to stop her.
They couldn't have tried very hard if she was suppose to be under their control. The cops were just lazy.
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Gee, it sounds kinda like she coulda saved her own life by just NOT ******* AROUND WITH DRUGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
I guess we will never know since since she was used as a sacrifice by lazy cops.
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Gee, it sounds kinda like she coulda saved her own life by just NOT ******* AROUND WITH DRUGS IN THE FIRST PLACE!
How dare you suggest that someone take personal responsibility for their lives!!1!1!! You sound like some kind of Rethug Freeper to me. :-)
Nice try but no cigar. :whatever:
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She was a druggie that's for sure and she had some time coming but her crimes did not carry a death penalty. She should not have been placed in a situation where she could be killed. My feeling is that the police are abusing these "snitch" programs and in the process getting people killed, it's rediculous.
I know she signed the paperwork but I am sure she wasn't told she could be murdered. Cops piss me off and this war on drugs is out of control. Just because a person is doing drugs does not mean that they are expendable. The cops in this story put a girl in harms way to protect their own cowardly asses. :banghead:
Bitch slap to Bondai for sounding like a DUmmie. She knew the risks. If she wasn't willing to accept them, she should've just done her time like everybody else. The narcotics game is a dangerous business. I don't know why some people insist that law enforcement try to make it safe.
BS me all you want. The cops should not be placing people in situations where they could be killed, it's criminal. The girl could quite possibly have been helped and lived a productive life, now she is dead. She died doing a job we pay cops to do and for which she was not qualified.
We use snitches because the smarter crooks won't do business with someone they don't know. Judging from the facts of the case, this girl was in "middle management" of the local drug trade. The next highest guy in the pecking order would not sell to just anyone, that's what he had her for. Officer Smith can't just walk up to their suspect and order 20 pounds of weed and 500 hits of "X". If he did, the first words out of the crook's mouth would be "who the F$*k are you?!". Tragic as it is, it's just how the game gets played.
So you just sacrifice "druggies" instead, their lives have no meaning, right?
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BS, Bondai because that is how it's done.
The criminals she was dealing with are guys you do not cross. Ever. They don't have the regular slate of judges available to them, so typically Judge Colt settles their disputes. His decisions usually do not allow for appeals.
She was just a number to them. Just as a fry cook at McDonald's is replaced the day after he quits, she could have walked away and they would have another druggie drug dealer working the street tomorrow.
If she developed a history of trading drugs, the cops would eventually ship her up to state. Getting her to snitch nabs them a bigger fish, she would have been given a chance to clean up and clear out.
The cops were offering her a better deal than hew other business relationship was, even at greater risk.
Well in this case they will be shipping her in a box.... :whatever:
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She was a druggie that's for sure and she had some time coming but her crimes did not carry a death penalty. She should not have been placed in a situation where she could be killed. My feeling is that the police are abusing these "snitch" programs and in the process getting people killed, it's rediculous.
I know she signed the paperwork but I am sure she wasn't told she could be murdered. Cops piss me off and this war on drugs is out of control. Just because a person is doing drugs does not mean that they are expendable. The cops in this story put a girl in harms way to protect their own cowardly asses. :banghead:
Somethings tells me folks looking to buy quanities of anything illegal ain't going to be dealing with Missionaries. Regardless they doing it as part of a sting op or otherwise.
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So you just sacrifice "druggies" instead, their lives have no meaning, right?
Druggies have made their choices. They chose to do drugs. This one chose not only to use drugs, she chose to sell them to other druggies. She probably got herself into hock with dealer at some point and that is how she wound up dealing, but she still had choices. She could have left town without leaving a forwarding address. Instead, she then gets caught dealing.
The cops offered her a reasonable deal. In exchange for four years of her life that they owned at they point, they told her they wanted the asshole that was distributing the drugs. She could have done the four years. After she agreed, she should not have done anything at all that put her outside of their protection. She did. Again, she made a choice.
I've seen it more than once and my family is full of cops, and one or two druggies.
Granted they need to execute the person who made the choice to kill her as soon as legally possible.
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BS, Bondai because that is how it's done.
The criminals she was dealing with are guys you do not cross. Ever. They don't have the regular slate of judges available to them, so typically Judge Colt settles their disputes. His decisions usually do not allow for appeals.
She was just a number to them. Just as a fry cook at McDonald's is replaced the day after he quits, she could have walked away and they would have another druggie drug dealer working the street tomorrow.
If she developed a history of trading drugs, the cops would eventually ship her up to state. Getting her to snitch nabs them a bigger fish, she would have been given a chance to clean up and clear out.
The cops were offering her a better deal than hew other business relationship was, even at greater risk.
Well in this case they will be shipping her in a box.... :whatever:
Why do you think she needed them to put her in the box she was so conveniently building for herself? She was invloved in the illicit drug trade. She was both using and selling. Go ahead and ask Tantal what usually happens to that particular breed of drug dealer.
BTW, when my younger sister was aspiring to be a cop, they used her all the time on alcohol and mary jane busts. In her words, "No sweat". Then again my sister isn't this breed of dumb.
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Speaking of "choices" what about the rat**** that shot the poor girl. If he thought she was a risk, why not, oh... I don't know, not farking sell to her??? No. The bastard killed her.
Whoever mentioned the DP for that dude before... right on!
(sry, played a lot of catch up here)