The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: CC27 on August 24, 2015, 09:54:58 AM
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Star Member Stinky The Clown (53,042 posts)
"I wish I'd sent in another helicopter . . . . ."
Last edited Thu Aug 20, 2015, 11:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Jimmy Carter, today at his presser, when being asked various questions by various reporters about his life. He then smiled, and said softly something about getting reelected to a second term.
If only, Mr. President. If only.
I really love this man. I loved him when he was in office and I love him even more since then. A president who was, is, and ever will be selfless.
I'm not a religious person but I can respect people of faith who live by what they believe. On that score Jimmy Carter is head and shoulders above so many others. His hands on work with Habitat continues even today. How many are lucky enough to live in a house that Jimmy's and Rosalind's hands work on? His work thorough the Carter Center is a beacon to world of what should be.
Through all of this we have this man's grace, dignity, warmth, and gentleness.
Please, Mr. Carter, stay with us. Maybe ten more, huh? Our hearts are with you.
You are still a laughing stock.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027095750
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I did at one time have some respect for Carter.
But I was mistaken for crediting him in 1 area he didn't deserve credit.
I had given him credit for being a Navy Nuclear qualified Officer having graduated from nuke school.
Any graduate from that school has to be smart, studious, diligent, and ambitious.
Therefore such a graduate would be disabused of the notion that affirmative action was a good idea.
But then I discovered he had merely attended nuke school.
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I did at one time have some respect for Carter.
But I was mistaken for crediting him in 1 area he didn't deserve credit.
I had given him credit for being a Navy Nuclear qualified Officer having graduated from nuke school.
Any graduate from that school has to be smart, studious, diligent, and ambitious.
Therefore such a graduate would be disabused of the notion that affirmative action was a good idea.
But then I discovered he had merely attended nuke school.
He resigned his commission while he was attending the program. I suspect he got out before he flunked out.
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From what I've read of the actual plan for Tehran, it sounds like there was almost no way in Hell for it to go right, and although it would have killed large numbers of Iranian scum, it would have ultimately ended up looking like a giant version of Mogadishu because the odds of the rescue and extraction actually working were astronomically bad.
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A failed attempt to rescue the hostages was definitely a "we can't just sit here and do nothing" moment. And while it may not have entirely worked, it never even got to Tehran to find out. Even if some of the hostages had been killed, at least most Americans would have thought "Well at least some of them lived because chances are they were all going to die eventually."
Stinky The Clown
I really love this man. I loved him when he was in office...
Little mikey liked double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, hostages being held in Iran for 444 days, and a country in malaise. To say you loved Carter and him being in office is to automatically say you loved these things. There is no other way to view it.
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How old would The Clownish Dude have been during the Carter admin?
I was a kid but I remember even magazine like Mad and Cracked were making fun of him.
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It's a deeper level of detail, and some of it happened before Carter's "watch", but the failed rescue underscored a problem that got blamed on Carter: the years of gutting of the US military.
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The Stink DUde is leg humping the second worst President in history.
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There is one thing that you've got to give Carter credit for. He created a lot of Republicans.
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You are still a laughing stock.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027095750
Carter or Stinky?
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Carter or Stinky?
Yes.
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Both are losers.
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Both are losers.
Don't forget to add Obambi in the mix.
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How old would The Clownish Dude have been during the Carter admin?
I was a kid but I remember even magazine like Mad and Cracked were making fun of him.
The sparkling old dude was born in 1946, so during the Carter regime, he was ostensibly an adult capable of reason and judgement. But maybe this was about the time he began lusting for his current much-younger trophy wife, forgetting all about his trusting, loyal, steadfast first wife who'd made him what he then was, which was more than he later became.
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He resigned his commission while he was attending the program. I suspect he got out before he flunked out.
I read somewhere, I think, that Rickover bounced him.
Not sure of that and I may be wrong.
From what I've read of the actual plan for Tehran, it sounds like there was almost no way in Hell for it to go right, and although it would have killed large numbers of Iranian scum, it would have ultimately ended up looking like a giant version of Mogadishu because the odds of the rescue and extraction actually working were astronomically bad.
:II:
Interservice cooperation is one thing. Throwing people together, regardless of how it looks good in a movie, just doesn't work. One more bird wouldn't have changed those odds at all.
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Little mikey liked double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, hostages being held in Iran for 444 days, and a country in malaise. To say you loved Carter and him being in office is to automatically say you loved these things. There is no other way to view it.
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More than likely, L'il mikey was making tons of money off the poor as a loan shark and running some numbers.
Being of Italian extraction in Baltimore during the Carter years meant he was also, probably, a union thug.
Yeah, if that were me, I'd be missing the corn-pone peanut too.
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Interservice cooperation is one thing. Throwing people together, regardless of how it looks good in a movie, just doesn't work. One more bird wouldn't have changed those odds at all.
It went way beyond the interservice 'Everybody has to get their slice of the pie' problem. My understanding of the plan from open-source materials that came out much later is that essentially they intended to use in-country assets (Who we would have doubtless left high and dry afterward, so what are the odds that plan was actually secure? Foreigners may hate their own regime, but they aren't stupid, and these would be the guys who watched us sell out our pal the Shah only a short time before) as well as raiders to bust in and rescue the hostages. Assuming the raiders and at least some of the hostages survived that adventure, they were then supposed to get to the freshly-seized PZ in a stadium (Needless to say, seizing it too early would tip the hand, so 'Split-second timing' would be an understatement of the requirement; have you ever tried to navigate through the streets of a Mideastern city on a split-second basis on a normal day, let alone one where all Hell is breaking loose?), all of this supposedly covered by orbiting gunships.
It would have basically required the Iranians to spaz in place for three hours in total paralysis. However numerous and whatever their other faults may be, the Revolutionary Guard is not known for spazzing out or showing the slightest reluctance to fling themselves into gunfire as long as they have some chance of dying in battle against infidels and killing some of the foreign devils to boot. The gunships would have run out of ammo long before the Iranians ran out of Revolutionary Guards with weapons.
Probably would've ended up killing thousands of Iranians (Which is good as far as it goes) at the cost of most of the raiding force, the majority of their AC, most of the hostages, and then ended with possibly a couple of the extraction aircraft getting out loaded.
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It went way beyond the interservice 'Everybody has to get their slice of the pie' problem. My understanding of the plan from open-source materials that came out much later is that essentially they intended to use in-country assets (Who we would have doubtless left high and dry afterward, so what are the odds that plan was actually secure? Foreigners may hate their own regime, but they aren't stupid, and these would be the guys who watched us sell out our pal the Shah only a short time before) as well as raiders to bust in and rescue the hostages. Assuming the raiders and at least some of the hostages survived that adventure, they were then supposed to get to the freshly-seized PZ in a stadium (Needless to say, seizing it too early would tip the hand, so 'Split-second timing' would be an understatement of the requirement; have you ever tried to navigate through the streets of a Mideastern city on a split-second basis on a normal day, let alone one where all Hell is breaking loose?), all of this supposedly covered by orbiting gunships.
It would have basically required the Iranians to spaz in place for three hours in total paralysis. However numerous and whatever their other faults may be, the Revolutionary Guard is not known for spazzing out or showing the slightest reluctance to fling themselves into gunfire as long as they have some chance of dying in battle against infidels and killing some of the foreign devils to boot. The gunships would have run out of ammo long before the Iranians ran out of Revolutionary Guards with weapons.
Probably would've ended up killing thousands of Iranians (Which is good as far as it goes) at the cost of most of the raiding force, the majority of their AC, most of the hostages, and then ended with possibly a couple of the extraction aircraft getting out loaded.
It gets even better than that. None of the separate US Force groups allocated to this operation could talk to each other effectively. The ground guys had no way of talking to the helicopters or the support aircraft, the helicopters couldn't talk to anyone. Each group would have been just hoping to follow the other groups play and get it right. As it was, there was no prior scouting of the remote runway that used and no knowledge of local weather conditions. The first helicopter tried to take off and promptly crashed into the first plane due to dust and wind. The second helicopter became damaged and they no longer had enough left to complete the mission so they boarded the remaining planes and left.
The failure spurred adoption of uniform types of radio gear among other things.
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That's all true, though I was mainly just addressing the plan which was ridiculously complex, and as far-fetchedas an action movie plot, and as likely to succeed as the Charge of the Light Brigade.
I remember back in those days in the field, when we had a FAC with us he would always arrive in his own USAF Jeep (At least it was painted OD rather than blue, thankfully), heavily laden with all the necessary radio gear to talk to the air assets and a rather distinctive antenna array. Even our own (Few at the time) Army attack helos were not reachable on our battalion command net (On which I ran the NCS).
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That's all true, though I was mainly just addressing the plan which was ridiculously complex, and as far-fetchedas an action movie plot, and as likely to succeed as the Charge of the Light Brigade.
I remember back in those days in the field, when we had a FAC with us he would always arrive in his own USAF Jeep (At least it was painted OD rather than blue, thankfully), heavily laden with all the necessary radio gear to talk to the air assets and a rather distinctive antenna array. Even our own (Few at the time) Army attack helos were not reachable on our battalion command net (On which I ran the NCS).
I actually met one of the USAF forward observers that was there. He focused mainly on the lack of any real planning or communication doomed things before they ever got going.
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I would encourage people to read up on Operation Eagle Claw and just how flawed it was.
Hindsight is 20/20 but regardless it seems to have been a military mission with the expressed desire to not use military force.
Clearly what has been expressed here by DAT and Vagabond is 100% accurate and for Carter 35 years later to make such a remark shows what an incredible idiot he is and to this day how little respect he has for those that have served and have died for this country.
My loathing for him has reached a new high. :bird: