The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on July 20, 2008, 05:32:56 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3649643
The original post, by the politically-correct primitive, the "PCIntern" primitive, deals with planned obsolescence in dentistry; how it's used to bring back repeat business. But immediately some primitive on the rag hijacks the bonfire. The first two comments, and then the primitive who could use some Lydia Pinkham's Special Vegetable Compound for Female Complaints butts in:
wurzel (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Dentistry. Just another racket.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Your dental generalization is not appreciated or appropriate.
The practice of modern dentistry has greatly contributed to the health of our Society.
It has been shown that the longer you keep your teeth the longer you will live.
Need a root canal treated or a cavity filled? You will be grateful for your dentist.
Try living in a society without dentists. See how that works.
The primitive above has all his marbles; one wonders if he's ever been to any of these socialist paradises of workers and peasants with free medical care for all.
Anyway, here it comes:
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Uh... I think you COMPLETELY missed the point of the OP.
But having read some of your other replies today, I am not surprised.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I did not miss his point at all.
You are the one who is so quick to ignorantly disparage all of dentistry without a clue of what you
are talking about. Read my response down thread.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Ummm- okay, what ever you say.
No one in the discussion has dissed the value of dentistry.
What the op was pointing out was the fact that what were once procedures intended to LAST for a number of years no longer did.
WITH THE EXPRESS INTENT of generating MORE business, not the health of the patient.
I'm sure PC will correct me if I am wrong.
You one the other hand seem to misunderstand just about everything posted on this thread.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I like your name, but not your game.
"no one in the discussion has dissed the value of dentistry."
Did you miss response one? You know the one I am responding to.
Did you think my response was to the OP?
And did you read my response below where I agree with the OP? To quote you: " you one (sic) the other hand seem to misunderstand just about everything..." i have said.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I happen to agree with the "racket" reference.
I KNOW for a fact that my dentist charged my insurance company for procedures he did NOT perform.
That's a RACKET.
Dental health is VERY important to over all health, no doubt.
Unfortunately, the practice has become about profit, not health.
No game there-
I was unable to have procedures I NEEDED to have because my dentist burned through my allowance by charging for things he NEVER did.
THAT IS A RACKET.
You know, I've been watching the BeHereNow primitive for more than three years, and she's always struck me as someone with a whole watermelon stuck up her ass, and it's too big to pass through her rectal aperture.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You make my point about generalizing.
Yes you had a bad experience with a particular dentist. Now you want to conclude that all dentists are crooked. How rational is that?
Yes dentistry is a business. Businesses need money to stay in business, to pay their venders and their employees. Businesses can be ethical or unethical. Dentists can be ethical or unethical.
I know many dentists and I assure you most of them are ethical and deeply concerned that their patients get the very best care. But the way that is just not ethical, that is good business.
As I said elsewhere, if your dentist cheated you have the ethical responsibility to report him not just bitch on internet forums about how all dentists are corrupt. Dentists do not like the bad apples either. Report him.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. You need to re read the OP.
The closing statement by PC, and summation of his concern, was that AFTER the presenter reduced the dental practice to how to generate repeat business more quickly, none of the dentists reacted to the idea as a violation of ethics in the practice.
I'm fairly certain that was PC's point.
As a patient, I concur.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Be Here Now, please, please read my comments in comment #8.
That is the one where I agree with the OP. I explain some of the reasons why this happens and why I think that it is not a good thing.
I am not on this thread to fight with you. I do not appreciate that fact that because you disagree with me and because you have been victimized that you repeatedly attack me as being stupid.
I assure you that I am very knowledgeable in the issues of dentistry. I see that you have been wronged and need redress. I support you and ask that you take action with both your state dental board and your insurance company. I am also asking you recognize that most dentists are good people doing good work and we should be
very grateful they are with us.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. BBB, I seen your work on other threads today, and sorry, I'm not buying.
Done.
See ya.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. How clever of you.
My work on other thread? Please without stealing this thread be more specific. (Oh, I guess you and I already sort of did that.) Or are hit and runs your style?
Edit to add so after arguing with me for over an hour and ironically questioning my reading comprehension
you finally read my response. You know the one in which I completely agree with OP.
And now you say you just do not believe me Whatever.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. BBB- You have NO idea how many posters like you I have encountered on DU over the years.
I know better than to continue to engage with you.
As I said-
DONE.
Try it with some one less experienced.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. For the record BBB, I at NO point disparaged dentistry on this thread-I DO on the other hand disparage the RACKET, yes RACKET of deliberately manipulating restoration work with the EXPRESS intent of causing it not to last in order to force a patient to repeat the work sooner.
And I am LIVID at the fact that my dentist billed my insurance falsely.
Any more stupid comments or questions about my stand?
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. You really, really have a chip on your shoulder.
Gee does insulting me help you feel better? It must because you keep doing it.
If you are so livid, stop playing the victim and report it.
As for disparaging dentistry, when you agreed with the first response you did just that.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. No chip here- just sick and tired of posts like yours which COMPLETELY miss the point and twist the intentions and communications of other posters on a thread.
I have asked PC what I need to do as far as the dentist in question.
If you don't mind, I think I'll wait for his reply.
Thank you for your concern.
Oddly, race suddenly pops into the bonfire, this new primitive trying to lay aspersions about the origin of the primitive with marbles:
L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Sun Jul-20-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Check out where she's from and that won't be a surprised either.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Now, now... I was born there myself. Louisville to be exact.
I don't think the location of the poster is the problem.
I think perhaps is is a reading comprehension impairment.
Or perhaps the problem lies with the motivation in posting?
As in have you seen the shit stick stirrer lately?
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Wow, insulting me because I am from Kentucky.
Just how bigoted is that? And you are the one who sounds amazingly ignorant not I.
franksolich has never met anybody from Kentucky not worth liking.
And then the warped primitive, commensensical in all things but politics, tries to get this long-derailed bonfire back on track to the original issue, and succeeds.....for about three posts:
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Check out life without it sometime
People lived in hideous pain as their teeth rotted. Some died from the infections that spread to their bones, hearts or brains. If they were lucky, the infections forced their teeth out of their gums quickly and then healed, leaving them toothless.
Most people were nearly toothless by 40. There wasn't any fluoride in the water to help keep their enamel hard and impervious to decay.
In cultures where the diet required teeth, such people died of starvation if the infection hadn't killed them.
If you want to spend your life in pain and die young of a preventable infection, avoid dentists and their "temporary" restorations.
(why do you think people in old photos never smile? NO DENTISTS)
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've been wondering about this when I see those commercials on TV for dental veneers.
I think of what my nail-beds were like when I decided to stop wearing "silk" nail-tips (which I had been doing for a few years). I wonder what people are having done to their teeth in order to get a set of those dental veneers.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. The good news that new veneers do not require much if any preparation of the teeth. The older ones did. And once you had them placed, you were stuck with needing replacements for life.
Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sad to see planned obsolescence hit, but we do have Healthcare for Profit in the USA.
And then she's back:
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. AS a patient, I agree completely.
I had a crown done, at great expense, a few years ago.
A FEW years ago, mind you.
I can feel the tooth I was trying to save undergoing problems as I type.
Shortly after the procedure, who I figured out later had billed my insurance company THOUSANDS for things never done, unceremoniously dumped me as a patient which I find highly suspect.
Can you advise me as to my legal rights a s a dental patient as far as getting my molds, records, x-rays etc?
I wouldn't mind copies of his billing to my insurance company either.
Any chance of that?
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. If your dentist claimed thousands for treatment never done, you have a responsibility to report him/her to the insurance company for that is insurance fraud and a felony. The dentist would be charged for violating the law, most, lose his or her license and possible go to prison.
You should also report this dentist to your state dental board.
You as a patient have the right to request copies of all your dental records.
As to any claims he filed to insurance company, your insurance company would have sent you an explanation of benefits statement.
As for your crowned tooth having problems, it is sadly normal for a significant percentage of crown-treated teeth to need further treatment especially root canal treatment as I stated in my response to the OP.
Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. You do know that insurance companies support the five year life of crowns? They will pay for replacements every five years.
I agree that lab restorations with excellent margins should last up to 20 years or better.
Few patients want durable gold restorations anymore. None-metal crowns just do not last as long. And many dentists do not give enough attention to the margin fit of crowns.
They do not need to if the crown can be replaced so often.
It is not just your pocket book that is at risk for frequent crown replacement. Every time a tooth is drilled and treated, it is more at risk for root failure as well.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Try the ones that only last a few years... like mine.
I think PC was remarking on the fact that the practice of short term restorations are now common practice,
versus long term, expressly in the interest of promoting more return business.
At least that's what I got out of the "get over it and treat the patient as someone who will need a new car sooner" as the result of short term vs longevity restorations.
Perhaps I misunderstood, but I don't think so having been a victim of the fraud encouraged by those
who stand to benefit.
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. I've said it before; I'll say it again - thank goodness for dentists like you to counteract those who see this as nothing more than a way to make money.
They should be horribly ashamed of themselves.
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. AMEN! finally someone replies who actually READ the OP and GETS IT!!!
You made my day Jersygirl.
As you may have noticed, until now this has been an exercise in
:banghead:
as far as discussion goes.
You know, a primitive woman is never a pretty sight, but a primitive on the rag hurts the eyes even worse.
PCIntern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-20-08 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. Wow...
I leave for a couple hours and another fight breaks out...WTF is happening to our little community?
For the record, my point was that 'modern' cosmetic dentistry has taken a whole new tack and people had best better get ready to re-reconstruct routinely. I could go on and on, but I'll save everyone's energy.
Bottom line (I hate that statement): Gold and amalgam margins, when performed reasonably well last much much longer than composite margins and restorations performed with the same degree of care. Veneers are very very tricky and are not a panacea and need to be treatment planned very carefully.
It's complex. Sorry, but it is.
As far as the individual who was apparently cheated, I'm sorry about that - it happens now and again. It is by no means de riguer, but I think you know that.
The above's pretty much the whole bonfire, the BeHereNow primitive having ruined the discussion as the discussion was meant to be. One suspects Sigmund Freud, M.D., would refer the BeHereNow primitive to a proctologist, to see about getting that watermelon extracted from inside her ass, and then suggest Dale Carnegie's book, How to Win Friends and Influence People.
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Not to worry. When Obama is elected he will outlaw tooth decay, dead nerves, and gingivitis.