The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on May 14, 2015, 05:29:35 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026672764
Thu May 14, 2015, 02:59 PM
Star Member Lyric (12,339 posts)
Do you believe that everyone deserves food and housing, regardless of ability to work?
I don't mean caviar and mansions, and I also don't mean scant beans and rice in a hovel. I mean an adequate amount of everyday-type foods and an apartment, house, or mobile home that fits the needs of the family, neither too large nor too small, with vital utilities (water, power, heat) included. The kind of living situation where there are no treats or luxuries or privileges for the able-bodied unless you work for them, but nobody ever starves or dies of cold/heat either
70 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
Yes. These things are a human right, and should be provided for everyone in a society as wealthy as ours.
69 (99%)
Yes, but only for families with children, elderly people, and people with disabilities or illnesses.
0 (0%)
No, society should not function this way. Food and housing are privileges that must be earned.
0 (0%)
Other (please explain below)
1 (1%)
1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Can you believe those results?
Response to Lyric (Original post)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:01 PM
Star Member 99Forever (10,107 posts)
1. I would also include medical care to that list.
What,no cable or Internet?
Response to Lyric (Original post)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:05 PM
LanternWaste (21,093 posts)
3. Deserving regardless of ability work, and regardless of which side of an imaginary red and blue lin
Deserving regardless of ability work, and regardless of which side of an imaginary red and blue line on map any one person is born on.
So why work?
Response to Lyric (Original post)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:07 PM
Star Member Warpy (82,425 posts)
4. Not all disabilities are visible ones
If anyone had bothered to look at the lives of multiple generation welfare families, they would have seen things like borderline mental retardation, depression, and other illnesses that aren't apparent to the naked eye.
I know because I was on welfare once and I got to know a few of these people.
Anyone with the ability to get off welfare does so as quickly as possible. I did and against medical advice. Other people simply could not.
But you all should be ruling us.
Response to Lyric (Original post)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:11 PM
Romeo.lima333 (695 posts)
5. how would these things be provided
im reminded of the long lines in russia for toilet paper
Response to Romeo.lima333 (Reply #5)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:14 PM
RobertEarl (9,345 posts)
7. Take from the rich?
There is plenty enough to go around and take care of all of us. The problem is some hoard to excess.
**** you,you useless thief.
Response to Lyric (Original post)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:23 PM
Star Member petronius (23,548 posts)
11. Food, water, shelter, medical care, access to education, safety, and equal treatment in
all aspects of life seem to me to be basic societal responsibilities...
Response to Lyric (Original post)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:51 PM
Star Member hunter (21,826 posts)
12. If a society can't provide for all as it allows some people to be very wealthy and wasteful...
... then that society ain't worth shit.
Hey DUmbass,how does society provide that when everyone can just sit on their lazy ass?
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Who is paying for all this again? :whatever: As Milton Friedman said, which angels in government are we going to trust to give us all this free stuff
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Star Member petronius (23,548 posts)
11. Food, water, shelter, medical care, access to education, safety, and equal treatment in
all aspects of life seem to me to be basic societal responsibilities...
If you're given food, water, shelter and medical care then you don't need a ****ing education. If you want to be a leech off of taxpayers, then you should have no say in how much you get.
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Free? As in farmers and medical people do what they do without being paid? Good luck finding people willing to provide food and services without being paid!
Free? As in from the government? The money to pay for the stuff will come from taxpayers, and will cost 3X-4X, due to bureaucratic overhead. It won't be free, just paid for through other channels.
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If anything that is a right should be paid for by others doesn't that imply the Proglodytes have to pay for other people's bibles and bullets?
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This is the problem! In nature it's survival of the fittest. In liberalism it's **** the bloodline! When you have weak breading with weak and homos bringing up weak it's over! It won't be long before we are over run by lemmings! Only the strong should survive! Welfare is the reason we have these hapless pieces of shit draining our society! This mindset is what brings on the death count of communism! ****ing idiots!
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1. AS WEALTHY?!?!?!? We are $20 trillion in debt with $300 trillion in future liabilities.
2. If the free shit societies had been successful they would still be around.
3. If you get stuff, you have to work.
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I'm so disgusted by these bloodsuckers.
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As Karin calls it,"the wish list".
Response to hifiguy (Reply #62)Thu May 14, 2015, 07:18 PM
Star Member truebluegreen (5,860 posts)
81. True.
If they really wanted to fix the economy, they could have simply given the people free money, instead of shoveling it out to the banks. Similarly, if we really wanted to end homelessness, the best thing to do is first give the homeless homes.
Everything TPTB know...is wrong.
Response to LanternWaste (Reply #17)Thu May 14, 2015, 05:49 PM
Star Member sabrina 1 (52,913 posts)
48. Actually it only reminds very propagandized Americans of Russia. To the vast majority of the
residents of this planet, it reminds people of European Social programs where their nations' wealth is shared with all of its citizens.
But here in the US, we have had, since the McCarthy era, a deliberate attempt to compare any sharing of this nations great natural resources with ALL of its people which IS their birthright, with a long ago, historical failure of a state claiming to be a Socialist state.
That of course benefits the greedy power-hungry oligarchs in this country, who have somehow managed to convince the masses that while THEY, the unwashed working class, do NOT deserve a share in their own natural resources, it leaves it to them to grab ALL of what really belongs to the entire population, all for themselves.
And we in the US are such a small minority on this planet, completely cut off and out of touch with the rest of the world.
You are and will always be one of the stupidest of the stupid sabrina.
Response to Romeo.lima333 (Reply #5)Thu May 14, 2015, 04:40 PM
Star Member Starry Messenger (25,678 posts)
19. We can do better than two-year olds in rural counties drinking soda from their baby bottles.
How stupid to extrapolate straight to rationing.
Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #19)Thu May 14, 2015, 05:37 PM
Romeo.lima333 (701 posts)
32. i dont believe i said anything about rationing
Response to Romeo.lima333 (Reply #32)Thu May 14, 2015, 05:39 PM
Star Member Starry Messenger (25,678 posts)
36. Then wtf do lines in Russia have to do with providing food and housing?
Shortages in the USSR came largely with the reintroduction of market reforms, in the late 80's and 90's with perestroika. Next time post something that makes sense, and people won't mistake your meaning.
God. :thatsright:
Response to Romeo.lima333 (Reply #5)Thu May 14, 2015, 05:44 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (21,862 posts)
44. Russia started from the classic Royalty to Peasant model...
The People didn't have much and the rich were VERY few.
Communism does NOT equal shortages and Capitalism does not equal plenty.
Nothing like ignoring 100 years of recorded history.
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #44)Thu May 14, 2015, 06:48 PM
1939 (117 posts)
75. When you try to run the retail economy like the army supply system, it does
When I was in Germany (early sixties), the commissaries were constantly having shortages of catsup or other canned type goods. Once an item came into short supply, everyone began to hoard it and it disappeared from the shelves. Stateside commissaries didn't have this problem only because the shoppers could go to the local Winn Dixie or Food Lion and get the item. Government run stores have no incentive to provide sales. Their only motivation is to protect their jobs.
I saw this in Vietnam. When i went back to find my wife's family in 1993, we had to take soap, toilet paper, shampoo, and whatever we needed. The commies in Vietnam realized they had a 1st magnitude CF and began to relax strictures on capitalist retail. By 1998, you didn't need to take anything to Vietnam, you could buy what you wanted.
Social Democracy: Social Security, single payer health care, government safety net, hell yes.
Socialism: Government control of mean of production and the economy, hell no.
Response to 1939 (Reply #75)Thu May 14, 2015, 07:01 PM
Spitfire of ATJ (21,862 posts)
77. "everyone began to hoard it and it disappeared from the shelves."
That's called "capitalism".
It's the, "I got mine and screw you" business model.
I can`t believe idiocy like that is not painful.
Response to Lyric (Original post)Thu May 14, 2015, 05:51 PM
frankieallen (34 posts)
51. "ability to work" is different than "desire to work". Let's at least make the conversation
interesting.
what should be provided to those who choose not to work, make little to no effort to work, and or make excuses not to work?
:popcorn:
Response to frankieallen (Reply #51)Thu May 14, 2015, 07:47 PM
leftstreet (27,125 posts)
93. Why not make it more interesting?
Should someone have a "desire to work" for minimum wages?
Response to frankieallen (Reply #51)Thu May 14, 2015, 08:17 PM
Star Member truebluegreen (5,860 posts)
103. Shoo.
Response to Lyric (Original post)Thu May 14, 2015, 06:31 PM
Cryptoad (2,757 posts)
73. All Gubermint program should be Progressive
The Wealthy should not be given food and housing,,,,, and the poorer you are the more you should receive as basic right
Response to Lyric (Original post)Thu May 14, 2015, 09:03 PM
Generic Brad (8,223 posts)
110. And wi-fi
Everyone deserves equal access to knowledge.
Sorry for the length but this is what the left really expects. :banghead:
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Everything they say that society should provide is already provided for us by God.
All we have to do is take advantage of it with the sweat of our brow.
Not the sweat from someone else's brow...
Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #44)Thu May 14, 2015, 06:48 PM
1939 (117 posts)
75. When you try to run the retail economy like the army supply system, it does
When I was in Germany (early sixties), the commissaries were constantly having shortages of catsup or other canned type goods. Once an item came into short supply, everyone began to hoard it and it disappeared from the shelves. Stateside commissaries didn't have this problem only because the shoppers could go to the local Winn Dixie or Food Lion and get the item. Government run stores have no incentive to provide sales. Their only motivation is to protect their jobs.
I saw this in Vietnam. When i went back to find my wife's family in 1993, we had to take soap, toilet paper, shampoo, and whatever we needed. The commies in Vietnam realized they had a 1st magnitude CF and began to relax strictures on capitalist retail. By 1998, you didn't need to take anything to Vietnam, you could buy what you wanted.
Social Democracy: Social Security, single payer health care, government safety net, hell yes.
Socialism: Government control of mean of production and the economy, hell no.
Social Democracy: Social Security, single payer health care, government safety net, hell yes. -That's socialism.
Socialism: Government control of mean of production and the economy, hell no. -That's fascism.
Here we have representatives of the class that means to rule with an iron fist, blathering with total ignorance.
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(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10911_864527890270404_5060750842876693701_n.jpg?oh=4eddf6ac6379eefb219579a6144ee75d&oe=55D4F320)
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Jukin needs to have arrowheads on the ends of his 666, avatar. :lmao:
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Dummies forget we already have all that... welfare, section 8, obamaphone, SNAP, medicaid, etc. The real problem the dummies have is they want to live a champagne lifestyle on a beer budget.
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Dummies forget we already have all that... welfare, section 8, obamaphone, SNAP, medicaid, etc. The real problem the dummies have is they want to live a champagne lifestyle on a beer Kool-Aid budget.
FIFY
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Seriously infantile.
i blame the prosperity years of Reagan and Bush for all of the special snowflakes.
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If it's all free .....why work?.....and if no one works, we all starve to death. That's socialism.
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Response to hifiguy (Reply #62)Thu May 14, 2015, 07:18 PM
Star Member truebluegreen (5,860 posts)
81. True.
If they really wanted to fix the economy, they could have simply given the people free money, instead of shoveling it out to the banks. Similarly, if we really wanted to end homelessness, the best thing to do is first give the homeless homes.
Everything TPTB know...is wrong.
:rotf: :rotf: Free lunches all around... Forever!!!
Free Shit = Effort Required 0
Freedom of Opportunity = Effort Required 10
Simple as that.
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Response to hifiguy (Reply #62)Thu May 14, 2015, 07:18 PM
Star Member truebluegreen (5,860 posts)
81. True.
If they really wanted to fix the economy, they could have simply given the people free money, instead of shoveling it out to the banks. Similarly, if we really wanted to end homelessness, the best thing to do is first give the homeless homes.
Everything TPTB know...is wrong.
so if this theory were to be believed.... how did they become TPTB and you're still posting on an irrelevant socialist website?
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I've seen photos of Mooshell's free lunch for kids. Free food from the govt will be controlled and doled out sparingly.
y'all better think twice before going for the free stuff.
I don't want the govt determining what I need and don't need.
I don't want to live in a development built by the lowest possible bid.
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so if this theory were to be believed.... how did they become TPTB and you're still posting on an irrelevant socialist website?
Exactly. :hi5:
Spitfire of ATJ (21,862 posts)
77. "everyone began to hoard it and it disappeared from the shelves."
That's called "capitalism". :o
It's the, "I got mine and screw you" business model. I'll bet they didn't have to spend 10 seconds indoctrinating you.
(http://i.eprci.net/derp-news)
I can`t believe idiocy like that is not painful.
Oh, it is. :wink: ...unfortunately, it is to us, also. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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Has anyone ever seen government cheese, and government peanut butter ?
It's processed in the same manner as taxes are.
Give the feds $1, and the return on investment is -75%.
Same for government cheese and peanut butter.
They got a raw material that was 100% good, and ruined it by diminishing it 75%, so that the end product is only 25% quality if that.
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Has anyone ever seen government cheese
Yeah, I ......"attended".... a few cheese days at the E St. Louis Armory. Sheep lining up for their feed. Even the black guys in the unit used to laugh about it.
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Spitfire of ATJ (21,862 posts)
That's called "capitalism". :o
It's the, "I got mine and screw you" business model.
So, explain to me how a business that bankrupts or kills its customers survives and is profitable. Whether bankrupt or dead, those people can't buy the products that business produces.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZruHfeUcNys[/youtube]
(Edit: corrected a Quote tag and improved clarity)
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So, explain to me how a business that bankrupts or kills its customers survives and is profitable. Whether bankrupt or dead, those customers can't buy the products that business produces.
You're question goes deeper than a DUmmy has ever been required to think before.
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You're question goes deeper than a DUmmy has ever been required to think before.
I was in my early teens when the Luddism in the "organic" food movement was becoming pop culture "wisdom" (late 60s and early 70s) and my Dad was a farmer. The illogic that a business would kill/harm its long-term customers was kind of forced on me.
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Response to Lyric (Original post)
Thu May 14, 2015, 03:01 PM
Star Member 99Forever (10,107 posts)
1. I would also include medical care marijuana to that list.
Corrected for actual meaning.
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Well, if satan's tobacco is going to be free, the rest of the recreational drugs should be free too.
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If you're given food, water, shelter and medical care then you don't need a ****ing education. If you want to be a leech off of taxpayers, then you should have no say in how much you get.
Oh, in that case, we have to provide all this except to farmers.
And teachers.
And garbagemen.
And grocers.
And truckdrivers.
And police.
(Firemen will ALL volunteer).
feel free to add to the list
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Oh, in that case, we have to provide all this except to farmers.
And teachers.
And garbagemen.
And grocers.
And truckdrivers.
And police.
(Firemen will ALL volunteer).
feel free to add to the list
Your definition of leeching off the taxpayers vareies greatly from mine.
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Yeah, I'm not following the thread.
I have heard libs claim before that Soldiers and retirees are leeches living off the public dole.
The argument is so weak and feeble minded as to be of no consequence.
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Yeah, I'm not following the thread.
I have heard libs claim before that Soldiers and retirees are leeches living off the public dole.
The argument is so weak and feeble minded as to be of no consequence.
:banghead: Bankers, lawyers, plumbers, electricians, doctors , etc., etc. provide services and are compensated (= paid) for it. :banghead:
:banghead: Farmers, factory workers, craftsmen (and women), etc., etc. make products and are compensated (= paid) for it. :banghead:
:banghead: Soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen (and women) provide a service and are compensated (= paid) for it; their pensions (and more) are part of their compensation. :banghead:
That Libs and Progs despise the service our military people provide is Libs' and Progs' problem.
:banghead: :banghead: Social program bennies - when those social programs are one's way of life - are paid for doing nothing more that existing and moving often and far enough to prove one is alive. :banghead: :banghead:
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DUmmies want to be paid for breathing.....then in that case I am owed 70 years back pay.