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Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: sharkhawk on May 13, 2015, 08:53:21 PM

Title: Stinky fails math
Post by: sharkhawk on May 13, 2015, 08:53:21 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026668120 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026668120)

Quote
Stinky The Clown (52,937 posts)

In the NE Corridor, 750K a DAY use AMTRAK. If we let it starve, all those people . . . . .

. . . . . will be in cars or on planes. Supporting that extra load on highways and airports will require . . . . wait for it . . . . M.O.N.E.Y.

Rail is the cheapest way to move a lot of people. for short to moderate trips.

In England, they spend many billions more on an otherwise not profitable rail system because it SAVES MONEY and is better for the environment. China spends over $125B on their rail system.

Last year the Republicans allowed AMTRAK to get a meager $1.1B.

Way ta go, Guys!!!! Yay Tax Cuts.

Mother****ers.


Per Amtraks own numbers, a record 30,900,000 riders rode Amtrak in 2014.  Even if you only include 250 weekdays, that averages out to about 125,000 riders per day nationwide.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: thundley4 on May 13, 2015, 08:59:52 PM
The heaviest traveled route is between NYC and DC. Those riders are paying less than half of the actual cost of the trip, and guess what, they aren't poor blue collar workers.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: franksolich on May 13, 2015, 09:11:57 PM
The problem here is that the sparkling old dude thinks everybody else should use the train; he of course is going to continue driving his own car.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: Carl on May 13, 2015, 09:18:41 PM
Quote
Rail is the cheapest way to move a lot of people. for short to moderate trips.

In England, they spend many billions more on an otherwise not profitable rail system because it SAVES MONEY

This could only make sense to a lunatic DUmbfuk.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: GOBUCKS on May 13, 2015, 09:54:03 PM
Quote
Stinky The Clown (52,937 posts)

In the NE Corridor, 750K a DAY use AMTRAK. If we let it starve, all those people . . .



Per Amtrak.com:
Quote
With ridership of 11.6 million, the Northeast Corridor (NEC) had its highest ridership
year ever in FY 2014, up 3.3 percent from the prior year.

At 365 days per year, that's 31,780 people per day, slightly short of Mike's 750,000.

In a huge, rich country like America, mass transit by rail makes sense only in a few congested blue urban hellholes like Chicago and New York.

In the civilized parts of the country people neither need it nor want it.

Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: obumazombie on May 13, 2015, 10:50:30 PM
This could only make sense to a lunatic DUmbfuk.

That logic escapes me.
Just like the lib today on Megan Kelly who is demanding (as a result of the derailment) more money for infrastructure.
His claim was that for every dollar spent on infrastructure(aka shovel ready jobs) the economy gets 3 dollars worth of return.
Let's put our whole GDP into infrastructure. We could pay off our national debt in about 6 years.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: Big Dog on May 14, 2015, 12:47:22 AM
That logic escapes me.
Just like the lib today on Megan Kelly who is demanding (as a result of the derailment) more money for infrastructure.
His claim was that for every dollar spent on infrastructure(aka shovel ready jobs) the economy gets 3 dollars worth of return.
Let's put our whole GDP into infrastructure. We could pay off our national debt in about 6 years.

That's like an economic perpetual motion machine!
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: BlueStateSaint on May 14, 2015, 04:41:00 AM
I think it was Glenn Beck's show that said something to the effect that the Northeast Corridor routes are big moneymakers for Amtrak, to the tune of $300 million.  It's the other routes outside said Northeast Corridor that bleed Amtrak red.  That wouldn't be surprising to me.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on May 14, 2015, 10:00:16 AM
This could only make sense to a lunatic DUmbfuk.

No, it's not really as stupid as it sounds, he is saying that alternative means would require much more expense in highway infrastructure, as well as the additional expenses to expand traffic throughput on already-packed English motorways, inevitably requiring additional real estate for the expansion to handle traffic.

As far as the economics of rail goes, there are really more like 240 full-traffic workdays a year.  Both the the white and blue collar workers use the network of Amtrak and regional transit rail in the NE corridor, it's not all one or the other.  Pretty sure Stinky is full of crap on the ridership, though, I think the number he quoted as 'Daily' is given elsewhere as 'Monthly.'  Everywhere else it loses money, but even there, outside the actual cities, almost all of it runs on rails that are paid for by freight operations and the passenger runs just pay for rights-of-way on existing systems.  A billion dollars a year is actually a pretty modest amount to keep a minimal system alive for strategic infrastructure purposes, compared to some of the other crap we spend money on.  Money aside, though, it really is a strategic issue to have a back-up system for unforeseen events like Bush's No-Fly order, and with the near-total death of long-distance bus lines, rail is about the only available fall-back.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: Happy Fun Ball on May 14, 2015, 10:19:10 AM
Because tax cuts caused that train to go more than twice the speed it should have around that turn, right?
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: SVPete on May 14, 2015, 10:31:36 AM
Are rail systems less expensive to build than highways?

Are rail systems less expensive to maintain and operate than highways are to maintain?

While rail freight may be more efficient at getting huge loads to and from major depots, trucks and highways are still necessary to get freight to individual cities and locations.

"Mass transit" passenger fares in Silicon Valley pay ~10% of actual costs of a ride. This is an ongoing taxpayer subsidy, not a one-time taxpayer expenditure!

Gas tax $$ supposedly for highway maintenance and building is routinely diverted (= stolen from car drivers!) to "mass transit". Consequently, highways are poorly maintained and not expanded.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: Carl on May 14, 2015, 10:32:50 AM
No, it's not really as stupid as it sounds, he is saying that alternative means would require much more expense in highway infrastructure, as well as the additional expenses to expand traffic throughput on already-packed English motorways, inevitably requiring additional real estate for the expansion to handle traffic.

As far as the economics of rail goes, there are really more like 240 full-traffic workdays a year.  Both the the white and blue collar workers use the network of Amtrak and regional transit rail in the NE corridor, it's not all one or the other.  Pretty sure Stinky is full of crap on the ridership, though, I think the number he quoted as 'Daily' is given elsewhere as 'Monthly.'  Everywhere else it loses money, but even there, outside the actual cities, almost all of it runs on rails that are paid for by freight operations and the passenger runs just pay for rights-of-way on existing systems.  A billion dollars a year is actually a pretty modest amount to keep a minimal system alive for strategic infrastructure purposes, compared to some of the other crap we spend money on.  Money aside, though, it really is a strategic issue to have a back-up system for unforeseen events like Bush's No-Fly order, and with the near-total death of long-distance bus lines, rail is about the only available fall-back.

I get the idea of what he was saying but to me sounded more like the old leftist canard of "we have to spend today because if we don`t it will cost so much more later" with the only reasoning being that they say so.

I have no inherent problem with rail for its practical uses and as you say a strategical fall back.
The left seems to view it as the equivalent of a moving sidewalk that runs past their front door and will take them virtually non stop to any destination they desire free of charge.
I know that is an exaggeration but not by a lot,it is another freebie they want someone else to pay for so as to allow them to use their own cash for frills.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: JohnnyReb on May 14, 2015, 10:44:38 AM
A 100 years ago, a train ran through my little community twice a day. There was a side track for farming stuff coming in and going out plus a little booth by the track where passengers could catch a ride into town and/or connect for longer trips. They tell me they took the passenger car off in the 20's, tore down the booth in the 40's and took out the side track in the 80's....and what was a 50+ odd mile of track has been taken up and now serves the ADM plant down the road. What was 50+ miles is now 12 miles and the train runs when needed.....2 or 3 times a week during peak season.

Yes, I need high speed rail running by my house NOW.....so I can wave at the engineer as he goes by just like I did in my childhood.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: txradioguy on May 14, 2015, 10:51:43 AM
Quote
Stinky The Clown (52,937 posts)

In the NE Corridor, 750K a DAY use AMTRAK. If we let it starve, all those people . . . . .

. . . . . will be in cars or on planes. Supporting that extra load on highways and airports will require . . . . wait for it . . . . M.O.N.E.Y.

Rail is the cheapest way to move a lot of people. for short to moderate trips.

In England, they spend many billions more on an otherwise not profitable rail system because it SAVES MONEY and is better for the environment. China spends over $125B on their rail system.

Last year the Republicans allowed AMTRAK to get a meager $1.1B.

Way ta go, Guys!!!! Yay Tax Cuts.

Mother****ers.


Out of the $800 billion stimulus package that was passed in early 2009 for "infrastructure improvements" and "shovel ready" jobs...only $9 billion was actually put to that use.



Stimulus package passed by Dem controlled House and Senate that could have fixed this....used for other purposes.

DUmbass.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: CC27 on May 14, 2015, 11:06:22 AM
Amtrak has never name a profit. EVER. It should be out of business but government props it up.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: GOBUCKS on May 14, 2015, 11:43:05 AM
Passenger trains are good if you're part of that steaming, squirming mass of left-wing humanity in the "Northeast Corridor".

Passenger trains are good if you work in the center of downtown Chicago and live in a civilized suburb twenty-five or thirty miles away.

Otherwise, trains are a useless, bottomless money pit.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: thundley4 on May 14, 2015, 12:13:39 PM
A 100 years ago, a train ran through my little community twice a day. There was a side track for farming stuff coming in and going out plus a little booth by the track where passengers could catch a ride into town and/or connect for longer trips. They tell me they took the passenger car off in the 20's, tore down the booth in the 40's and took out the side track in the 80's....and what was a 50+ odd mile of track has been taken up and now serves the ADM plant down the road. What was 50+ miles is now 12 miles and the train runs when needed.....2 or 3 times a week during peak season.

Yes, I need high speed rail running by my house NOW.....so I can wave at the engineer as he goes by just like I did in my childhood.

90% of the rail cars I see say ADM or the name of one of their subsidiaries on them.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: thundley4 on May 14, 2015, 12:14:56 PM
Passenger trains are good if you're part of that steaming, squirming mass of left-wing humanity in the "Northeast Corridor".

Passenger trains are good if you work in the center of downtown Chicago and live in a civilized suburb twenty-five or thirty miles away.

Otherwise, trains are a useless, bottomless money pit.

I think Amtrak's sight seeing trains turn a profit. At least they should at the prices they charge.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: JohnnyReb on May 14, 2015, 02:14:18 PM
Small trucking company in N.C. used to guarantee delivery anywhere on the west coast in 54 hours....and coming back to east coast. Can rail make the same guarantee?
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: jukin on May 15, 2015, 01:50:39 PM
Rail is great for freight. Passenger service, not so much.

Again, AMTRAK sells a $4 hamburger for $16 and loses $8 on each hamburger sold. Extrapolate that to non subsidized cost of passenger tickets. Rail would be three times more than an airplane.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: I_B_Perky on May 15, 2015, 08:43:28 PM
I get the idea of what he was saying but to me sounded more like the old leftist canard of "we have to spend today because if we don`t it will cost so much more later" with the only reasoning being that they say so.


And the same dummies will scream if we decide to drill for oil today so oil will be less expensive later or it will only produce x amount.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: tuolumnejim on May 16, 2015, 07:38:59 PM
This could only make sense to a lunatic DUmbfuk.
I'll just use this example.  :-)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFEcyUNBjg[/youtube]
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on May 17, 2015, 06:49:55 AM
In the civilized parts of the country people neither need it nor want it.

Only if forced to travel to a blue hell hole.  Once gas went over $2.00/gl, it's cheaper to take AmWreck from Carbondale to Chicago, than drive anything that gets less than 25 MPG...... 

.....as long as you have people that will pick you up at Union Station.

I have gone one-way, for a little as $18.00 (364 Miles driving, give or take a block or two).
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: 98ZJUSMC on May 17, 2015, 06:54:51 AM
I'll just use this example.  :-)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHFEcyUNBjg[/youtube]

Only in BizzaroWorld.   :thatsright:

What a doorknob.....
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: SVPete on May 17, 2015, 09:59:10 AM
Only if forced to travel to a blue hell hole.  Once gas went over $2.00/gl, it's cheaper to take AmWreck from Carbondale to Chicago, than drive anything that gets less than 25 MPG...... 

.....as long as you have people that will pick you up at Union Station.

I have gone one-way, for a little as $18.00 (364 Miles driving, give or take a block or two).

Pretty much the only times I use mass transit are when I need to go to SF (six times since 1999) or to downtown San Jose. Unless validated by some store or event, SF parking for several hours is $35-$40; driving and finding parking in SF is stressful enough that I take BART and walk a couple of miles to and from the BART station when I get to SF. Parking in SJ is less expensive, but I only go there for largish event, which makes getting there and finding parking stressful. So I take Light Rail to downtown and walk a half mile or so (usually to a 10K run/walk event).
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: tanstaafl on May 17, 2015, 11:30:30 AM
Only in BizzaroWorld.   :thatsright:

What a doorknob.....
A doorknob serves a purpose.

Schmoe Biden is more like a stick you find in the woods. Unless you plan to poke at some poo on the path, most would ignore it or kick it out of the way.
Title: Re: Stinky fails math
Post by: GOBUCKS on May 17, 2015, 02:26:21 PM
Quote
Carbondale to Chicago
Quote
go to SF (six times since 1999) or to downtown San Jose

I don't think Chicago or the California coast qualify as civilized parts of the country.

Rail might be the only answer there, but they should travel in boxcars if civilized taxpayers have to foot the bill.