The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Delmar on April 05, 2015, 06:08:38 PM
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Sat Apr 4, 2015, 11:17 AM
Thor_MN (7,519 posts)
Ex-HP CEO calls Apple's CEO a 'hypocrite' on gay rights
Source: Fortune
If Tim Cook is serious about discrimination, says Carly Fiorina, he should pull out of China and Saudi Arabia.
"When Tim Cook is upset about all the places that he does business because of the way they treat gays and women, he needs to withdraw from 90% of the markets that he’s in, including China and Saudi Arabia,†she said Thursday afternoon during an interview with Wall Street Journal reporters and editors. “But I don’t hear him being upset about that.â€
Read more: http://fortune.com/2015/04/04/ex-hp-ceo-calls-apples-ceo-a-hypocrite-on-gay-rights/
Don't click the link unless you want to skip or lose your breakfast, big pic of Carly...
Typical conservative binary thinking. One must solve 100% of a problem, or it isn't worth doing anything.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141058617
I can't figure out why hypocrite is in quotes. No quotes from Fiorina in the linked article or in what was brought over to democrat underground contain the word hypocrite. Are they scare quotes? Who knows? My guess is that the Fortune magazine author of the article is using the quotation marks in a sneering way.
Lots of primitive replies to the post. Scooting the goalposts all over the field is keeping the DUmmies so busy that they almost know what having a job is like.
Former9thward is having a lot of fun with the other primitives in this thread. Mole?
Response to Thor_MN (Original post)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 11:23 AM
Star Member cosmicone (6,801 posts)
2. Tim Cook is not a citizen of China or Saudi Arabia
and thus he neither has the right to nor the ability to change their laws standing over hundreds of years.
On the other hand, he is a citizen of the US and has an absolute right to criticize what is happening in his own country.
Specious argument by loser Carly Fiorina.
Response to cosmicone (Reply #2)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 12:32 PM
Star Member former9thward (14,106 posts)
17. So we shouldn't criticize any other country?
Unless we are citizens? I guess that will cut down on the discussion on DU....
Response to cosmicone (Reply #23)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 01:08 PM
christx30 (2,870 posts)
29. Sometimes pressure from the outside
can cause change to happen within. Unless the ruling family in Saudi Arabia has a reason to change, they won't. The occasional beheaded gay person in their country isn't causing them any harm. But a world wide electronics manufacturer refusing to do business with them? That might make them think.
Response to christx30 (Reply #29)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 04:11 PM
Star Member former9thward (14,106 posts)
44. We were once told sanctions against South Africa led to that regime changing.
Now we are told "change must come from within". How times change....
Response to cosmicone (Reply #23)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 01:50 PM
Star Member former9thward (14,106 posts)
33. So we should not impose sanctions on any other country.
For any reason. Got it.
Response to Moonwalk (Reply #25)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 01:54 PM
Star Member former9thward (14,106 posts)
34. Oh please...
Apple gets blasted regularly on DU for their business practices in China. "slave factories", etc. But now Apple should not be critical of these countries. "change must come from within." Talk about a 180 degree turn....
Response to former9thward (Reply #34)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 01:58 PM
Star Member cosmicone (6,801 posts)
35. Changing working conditions in factories
IS within Apple's control.
Changing China's perception of gays is not. As simple as that.
Response to cosmicone (Reply #35)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 02:03 PM
Star Member former9thward (14,106 posts)
36. Apple operates under the standards of the countries it is in.
So, no, changing working conditions is NOT under its control. China is not a free market in any respect. And I was talking about all rights in China, not just gays.
Response to former9thward (Reply #34)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 04:32 PM
Moonwalk (1,636 posts)
47. Please don't put words in my mouth. I don't much like it and I imagine you don't either...
I didn't say that Apple should not be critical of China or any other country. I said that the assertion that Tim Cook should NOT criticize the Indiana law because it's hypocritical wasn't a valid argument.
Now, do you think it is? Do you think Tim Cook should never open his mouth about any anti-gay policies anywhere until and unless he does so in exactly the same way in China? If so, you're arguing that someone with some influence is going to remain silent about such laws in the U.S.
That sounds counter-productive to what we here on DU want, doesn't it? Which is influential people criticizing the law. We were pleased to see NASCAR and all those other conservative groups/companies criticize it, weren't we? Even if we'll continue to criticize them for not doing all we think they should.
I'm fine being critical of Apple about what Apple does wrong and demanding that Cook and the company work to change those things—in whatever country they do business. Also that Cook and the company make whatever efforts they can to improve human rights in those countries. But I'm totally against anyone trying to keep someone influential from NOT criticizing a bad law in the U.S. by using a logical fallacy. I would hope you feel the same.
Do you really agree that Tim Cook should not have criticized the Indiana law?
Response to Moonwalk (Reply #47)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 05:16 PM
Star Member former9thward (14,106 posts)
50. Cook has freedom of speech and should use it when he wants.
I get a little disgusted when corporations and the like start picking topics that are safe here but they don't mention anyplace else.
Here's an obvious low post count mole that makes a good point.
Response to cosmicone (Reply #2)Sat Apr 4, 2015, 02:24 PM
RiverNoord (324 posts)
37. I find the point quite on target, unfortunatly...
I can't stand Fiorina, but people you personally dislike may still make valid points. It is somewhat hypocritical to roundly criticize laws which officially sanction discrimination in one country, but say nothing about much worse ones in another, especially if your business is critically involved in that country's economy.
What would happen if the most highly capitalized private corporation in the world threatened to pull out of China over its human rights abuses? The fact that such a move would likely destroy the company isn't a mitigating factor concerning the value of such a threat - it's an aggravating one. Apple could probably survive (with difficulty) the loss of the American market in its goods, but not the loss of its entire production structure, which relies on cheap labor in countries with severely restrictive official policies concerning human rights, including gays.
Never mind what the argument should, perhaps, mean for the customers of such a company.
What happened to corporations are not people and money is not speech?
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When one of the DUmmies starts to sound sane, I suspect a mole.
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Apple could probably survive (with difficulty) the loss of the American market in its goods, but not the loss of its entire production structure, which relies on cheap labor in countries with severely restrictive official policies concerning human rights, including gays.
So Apple is just as bad as any other corporation. They are putting profits above people. First they use the lowest wage workers they can find in countries with the least amount of personal freedoms, but also countries that criminalize being poop pounders.
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Dummies don't understand the word hypocrisy.
Tim Cook criticizes a law which doesn't discriminate against homosexuals, but does business in countries which execute homosexuals.
The definition of hypocrisy.
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When one of the DUmmies starts to sound sane, I suspect a mole.
Person is either a mole, or one of the last remaining JFK Democrats who is in for a rude awakening to what his party has become. Either way, this member's time is short.
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I can't figure out why hypocrite is in quotes. No quotes from Fiorina in the linked article or in what was brought over to democrat underground contain the word hypocrite. Are they scare quotes? Who knows? My guess is that the Fortune magazine author of the article is using the quotation marks in a sneering way.
Delmar, pretty much the whole Fortune article is a sneer. I'm no Fiorina fan, so I'll readily stipulate that she was terrible as CEO of HP. OTOH, her calling out the hypocrisy of Cook, the CEO of the Deciduous Fruit Computer Company, surprises me, pleasantly. As a whole I don't think Fiorina is even close to being a Social Conservative (which I am). Besides the extreme examples of China and Saudi Arabia she could also have listed the ~19 other states with RFRA laws, mentioned that AR and NV are considering RFRA laws, and pointed out that the US Feds were the first with an RFRA law (signed by WJC in 1993, when the next Presidential election was 3 years away).
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The only thing the left cares about is what can be used to grant them power and the ability to grab your wallet.
If one second that means condemning X and the next celebrating it they will do so without thought or conscience.