The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Mary Ann on March 31, 2015, 09:21:00 AM
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so that idiots can be a-holes and not have to suffer for it. At least, that's what I got from this word salad. That and DAMANgoldberg screwed up his health with drugs. (But let's not talk about that . . .)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111666154
DAMANgoldberg (513 posts)
Guaranteed Minimum Income Revisited
Some background from an archived DU conversation about the topic. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3817932
The reason for this post is a story that I normally don't link to or post from my Facebook feed, but it's from a MSM news source. http://abcnews.go.com/Business/cfo-food-stamps-controversial-viral-video/story?id=29533695. A gentleman used his "free speech" rights to criticize the actions of Chick-Fil-A during their Anti-Gay phase (which is still on as far as I know) and has been effectively banished from employment for life, a term that used to be called blackballed. Not excusing what he did, but if our digital lives including posts in this forum where scrutinized, I don't see how very few people would get hired for any position. And don't be 45 or over, that opens a whole another can of worms. Having a guaranteed living income, which can be afforded, but it's not in TPTB's best interest, would allow some measure of security and lifestyle that would allow talented people to serve in different environments without the fear of losing it all.
My personal situation is I am a medical wreck @ 50. How it got to this point is not the subject here and there will be much machinations about personal responsibility and whatnot; that is not a fruitful argument that changes the situation right now. The race of the clock in doing as much medical healing as insurance will allow until I run out of money to pay the premiums or get healthy enough to be employed at my age is one that a smart country should never puts its citizens in that state.
I don't have the answers, but I do know this is possible with the right choices to be made and would be gratified to see it come to light. Our current economic system with selected choices employer's make is not sustainable nor will it end well for anyone. We can and must do better.
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My personal situation is I am a medical wreck @ 50. How it got to this point is not the subject here and there will be much machinations about personal responsibility and whatnot; that is not a fruitful argument that changes the situation right now.
In other words it was a drug/alcohol addict that ruined its life and now expects others to pay for its existence.
Two words...**** you
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The first reply comes directly from the Kremlin.
Response to DAMANgoldberg (Original post)
Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:38 AM
Star Member Hugin (20,921 posts)
1. Excellent topic for discussion!
I especially recommend reading the DU thread linked in the OP.
Of course, right out of the gate in those replies someone plays the inflation card. Inflation could easily be delt with by implementing price controls on staples. An anathema to the owner class, because it would create a powerful government and reduce the owners main income stream which is based on gouging labor.
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I've been around for almost six decades. I've worked in various situations with people in need--volunteer work, government employee, Christian charity employee--and the one thing I've learned is that the more money and stuff you GIVE people, the more people there are with their hands out. Also, it's never enough. No one is ever satisfied. At the rate things are going, we will have an entire planet full of ungrateful takers.
Big government is going to destroy civilization long before climate change even gets a chance.
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Oh, geez! Talk about refrying an idea that was stupid and rejected even in the 1960s ... living off Government programs is already a lifestyle for many in the US. Any guaranteed minimum income scheme would guarantee a large class of people permanently leeching off creative (business, not "art") and productive people!
My personal situation is I am a medical wreck @ 50. How it got to this point is not the subject here and there will be much machinations about personal responsibility and whatnot; that is not a fruitful argument that changes the situation right now. The race of the clock in doing as much medical healing as insurance will allow until I run out of money to pay the premiums or get healthy enough to be employed at my age is one that a smart country should never puts its citizens in that state.
Guess what, idiot! How you got where you are does matter! It's at the heart of your situation! If your medical "situation" is the result of your own stupidity - e.g. eating/activity habits or recklessness in driving or on the job - rescuing/subsidizing people like you will encourage further stupidity. If your financial "personal situation" is due to screwing around instead of getting an education or due to not growing and adapting to the economy, take responsibility! Work survival jobs - even if from home - get your hindquarters retrained in something you can do!
I have sympathy for people who have been diligent and adaptable, but have nevertheless had things go badly - BTDT, got several T-shirts, and I have such friends and have helped some. This dismissal, "How it got to this point is not the subject here and there will be much machinations about personal responsibility and whatnot," tells me this idiot got where he got through personal stupidity of some sort, and that rescuing/subsidizing him will yield further stupidity.
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Response to DAMANgoldberg (Original post)
Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:38 AM
Star Member Hugin (20,921 posts)
1. Excellent topic for discussion!
I especially recommend reading the DU thread linked in the OP.
Of course, right out of the gate in those replies someone plays the inflation card. Inflation could easily be delt with by implementing price controls on staples. An anathema to the owner class, because it would create a powerful government and reduce the owners main income stream which is based on gouging labor.
You might want to check out how that is working in the worker's paradise of Venezuela DUmbass
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Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:38 AM
Star Member Hugin (20,921 posts)
1. Excellent topic for discussion!
I especially recommend reading the DU thread linked in the OP.
Of course, right out of the gate in those replies someone plays the inflation card. Inflation could easily be delt with by implementing price controls on staples. An anathema to the owner class, because it would create a powerful government and reduce the owners main income stream which is based on gouging labor.
Another refried failed policy from, this time, the 1970s. Failed for Nixon; why would it fare any better now?
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There is a guaranteed minimum income, DUmbass.
It is zero.
Want more? Get off your lazy Cheeto-sucking ass and earn it.
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Why should everyone else have to pay for your bad choices, goldbrick?
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Minimum wage for minimum work.
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DAMANgoldberg (513 posts)
Guaranteed Minimum Income Revisited
Having a guaranteed living income, which can be afforded, but it's not in TPTB's best interest, would allow some measure of security and lifestyle that would allow talented people to serve in different environments without the fear of losing it all.
Hey, DUmbass, I'm under 50 and have one of those. But here's the rub - I went out and earned it while I was young and my body could take a beating. Because I was able to do that, without the interference of the liberal establishment, means that you can do it, too.
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The only ones that WANT to live under Communism are those that have never lived in Communist country.
The last week or so going through the Baltics and especially in Czech and talking to the people here reminded me of that.
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The only ones that WANT to live under Communism are those that have never lived in Communist country.
The last week or so going through the Baltics and especially in Czech and talking to the people here reminded me of that.
Hmm . . . did you bring your Stetson and spurs? :whistling:
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I feel compelled to post this just because I do. DUmmies, how much does the minimum wage have to be to beat out welfare in your little piece of paradise? I waz shocked at what the Granite State is putting out!!
http://joeforamerica.com/2014/11/welfare-payout-statistics-will-make-really-mad/
(http://s23.postimg.org/98ysk9c6j/all_states_welfare.jpg)
Let's face it they want a hand out not a hand up. Free money
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There is a guaranteed minimum income, DUmbass.
It is zero.
Want more? Get off your lazy Cheeto-sucking ass and earn it.
Hear, hear - Hi-5 given
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You might want to check out how that is working in the worker's paradise of Venezuela DUmbass
Dangit! I was going to cite that -- and Cuba -- and the old USSR.
GMTA I guess.
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I feel compelled to post this just because I do. DUmmies, how much does the minimum wage have to be to beat out welfare in your little piece of paradise? I waz shocked at what the Granite State is putting out!!
http://joeforamerica.com/2014/11/welfare-payout-statistics-will-make-really-mad/
(http://s23.postimg.org/98ysk9c6j/all_states_welfare.jpg)
Let's face it they want a hand out not a hand up. Free money
61k to do nothing in Hawaii? Jesus Christ on a Pogo stick I have been doing it all wrong all these years!
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I feel compelled to post this just because I do. DUmmies, how much does the minimum wage have to be to beat out welfare in your little piece of paradise? I waz shocked at what the Granite State is putting out!!
http://joeforamerica.com/2014/11/welfare-payout-statistics-will-make-really-mad/
(http://s23.postimg.org/98ysk9c6j/all_states_welfare.jpg)
Let's face it they want a hand out not a hand up. Free money
The top 10 are leftist hell holes with largely stagnant economies and shrinking populations as people flee.
(http://www.newgeography.com/files/morrill-2011-1.jpg)
Notice anything DUmbasses?
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The DUmp is slipping.
A few years ago their demand for guaranteed income included a couple weeks of guaranteed paid vacation.
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You would have a guaranteed minimum income if you had investments that paid interest, dividends, income, distributions, capital gains, annuity payouts, factoring disbursements and the like.
That would of course presume that you lived on less than you made and then saved for future investments for the rainy day that comes into everyone's lives.
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The DUmp is slipping.
A few years ago their demand for guaranteed income included a couple weeks of guaranteed paid vacation.
That hasn't changed much -- they just want it to be 52 weeks of pad vacation per year.
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My personal situation is I am a medical wreck @ 50
I'm sorry. I can not find it in the Constitution that you are guaranteed anything but Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness.
I'm a medical wreck also but I force myself to go to work every single morning. I don't miss work. You don't know my pain I have daily. Know why I force myself every morning (yes, I have to talk myself into moving)? It's because I have personal responsibility and feel that I should not be a burden to society nor my family. Work actually makes me feel better emotionally.
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I'm sorry. I can not find it in the Constitution that you are guaranteed anything but Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness.
I'm a medical wreck also but I force myself to go to work every single morning. I don't miss work. You don't know my pain I have daily. Know why I force myself every morning (yes, I have to talk myself into moving)? It's because I have personal responsibility and feel that I should not be a burden to society nor my family. Work actually makes me feel better emotionally.
H5 and right on! I have been working nonstop for the last 43 years (this week, I won't say what day). But my new reason to get out of bed is countdown to retirement. I am just tired but I keep doing it and doing it well (any job worth doing).
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Hmm . . . did you bring your Stetson and spurs? :whistling:
I wasn't allowed to show up without them...that came directly from the RCO :-)
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The DUmp is slipping.
A few years ago their demand for guaranteed income included a couple weeks of guaranteed paid vacation.
They've managed to get 99 weeks of that.
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H5 and right on! I have been working nonstop for the last 43 years (this week, I won't say what day). But my new reason to get out of bed is countdown to retirement. I am just tired but I keep doing it and doing it well (any job worth doing).
EVERY morning when my alarm goes off I lay there for 15 minutes trying to convince myself to move. It hurts horribly in the morning when I first move. I lay there saying to myself "today, I should call in sick" "but are you really sick? once you get up you will feel better" "Get up, dumbass!" lol. It's funny now that I think about it. As long as I can put that first foot on the ground I'm good. :rotf:
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EVERY morning when my alarm goes off I lay there for 15 minutes trying to convince myself to move. It hurts horribly in the morning when I first move. I lay there saying to myself "today, I should call in sick" "but are you really sick? once you get up you will feel better" "Get up, dumbass!" lol. It's funny now that I think about it. As long as I can put that first foot on the ground I'm good. :rotf:
Momentum -- God's gift to Physics :)
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I wasn't allowed to show up without them...that came directly from the RCO :-)
Good man, the RCO! :cheersmate:
Hopefully, if I go, I'll meet him at the 2d Cav Association reunion in October.
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Good man, the RCO! :cheersmate:
Hopefully, if I go, I'll meet him at the 2d Cav Association reunion in October.
I haven't had much to do with this RCO but COL Myer seems to be good people. Say hi to Chris Golden for me when you go.
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From the DU OP:
... a smart country should never puts its citizens in that state.
Ummmm ....... excu-u-u-u-u-use me?! This country didn't put you in that "state". I suspect you did, but you have refused to acknowledge responsibility for so doing.
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Is there a guaranteed minimum labor that goes with it?
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Is there a guaranteed minimum labor that goes with it?
Surely you jest. You don't actually expect them to work for the guaranteed income do you? :rotf:
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Surely you jest. You don't actually expect them to work for the guaranteed income do you? :rotf:
No. Not really.
But it was fun just to type.
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The DUmmies are right. They deserve to be given one freebie from the taxpayer when they hold their Cheeto's stained fingers out.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/thundley4/onebullet_zpsabejh0rh.jpg)
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That photo reminds me of the DUmmy who played Russian roulette with a Glock.
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Another refried failed policy from, this time, the 1970s. Failed for Nixon; why would it fare any better now?
Not only Nixon, but the former USSR as well.
If you are guaranteed a "minimum income", what happens if you want to earn more than that? Will you receive more if you work more?
And if you get your "minimum income" REGARDLESS of your output, just HOW PRODUCTIVE would you want to be?
Mathmatically speaking, if you get $X for working Y amount of hours, to produce Z number of widgets, with a "guaranteed minimum income", would you still receive $X if you only work Y-A* hours, and only produce Z-A* number of widgets, or would you be paid $X-A*, like you SHOULD BE PAID!
If you work Y+A* number of hours, and produce Z+A* number of widgets, would you still get paid $X, or would you get paid $X+A* for those hours worked over Y?
*(A being any number less than or equal to X, Y, or Z)
IOW, WHY would anyone want to work more for the same amount, when they can work little or none, and still get paid?
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IOW, WHY would anyone want to work more for the same amount, when they can work little or none, and still get paid?
It's easy. Primitives would.
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It's easy. Primitives would.
Just my way of saying it would KILL productivity. :-)
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Just my way of saying it would KILL productivity. :-)
Just like unions have done in countless factories all over the world.
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IOW, WHY would anyone want to work more for the same amount, when they can work little or none, and still get paid?
"As long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work" - Soviet saying
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Just like unions have done in countless factories all over the world.
:werd:
Found this on Facebook:
http://buzzpo.com/maine-forced-welfare-queens-to-work-guess-what-happened-next/?utm_content=buffer4d27e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=positivelyrepublican (http://buzzpo.com/maine-forced-welfare-queens-to-work-guess-what-happened-next/?utm_content=buffer4d27e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=positivelyrepublican)
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Having a guaranteed living income... would allow talented people to serve in different environments without the fear of losing it all.
If you had any talent, you'd have a job.
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Response to DAMANgoldberg (Original post)
Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:49 PM
Warpy (81,909 posts)
2. What our Puritan culture fails to realize is that some people are unfit for work
and a lot of the time, the disabilities are invisible ones like chronic depression, borderline mental issues, and debilitating autoimmune diseases. Abandoned mothers with small children are already working at full capacity and adding a paid job to that never works well for either.
I've always said they needed to ask why multi generational welfare families existed instead of merely cutting off their income. They never did that. They would have been very surprised by some of the things they found which have been obvious to me over my years in health care.
Of course, we'll need to sell the idea of raising wages, first. With higher wages creating another boom economy, it will be easier to sell taking care of people who are unfit for work with an income floor.
Says one permanently unemployed due to drug issues. :whatever:
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Says one permanently unemployed due to drug issues. :whatever:
It looks like she's still using.
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Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:49 PM
Warpy (81,909 posts)
2. What our Puritan culture fails to realize is that some people are unfit for work or unwilling
and a lot of the time, the disabilities are invisible ones like chronic depression, borderline mental issues,aka being liberal and debilitating autoimmune diseases. Abandoned mothers with small children are already working at full capacity and adding a paid job to that never works well for either. simple solution: train some of them to be daycare workers, and tell the rest to get a job.
I've always said they needed to ask why multi generational welfare families existed instead of merely cutting off their income.Welfare moms try and get their kids on SSDI at early ages and stigmatize them for life. Alos, the Dems made it to increase single mother families by denying benefits to regular families. They never did that. They would have been very surprised by some of the things they found which have been obvious to me over my years in health care.
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Response to DAMANgoldberg (Original post)
Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:38 AM
Star Member Hugin (20,921 posts)
1. Excellent topic for discussion!
I especially recommend reading the DU thread linked in the OP.
Of course, right out of the gate in those replies someone plays the inflation card. Inflation could easily be delt with by implementing price controls on staples. An anathema to the owner class, because it would create a powerful government and reduce the owners main income stream which is based on gouging labor.
You might want to check out how that is working in the worker's paradise of Venezuela DUmbass
Oh, ..... they just didn't do it right.
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It's like LBJ's Great Society plan.
First you offer a guaranteed welfare income if they don't work.
Then you put in a cash penalty if they get married.
Then, most important, you set up a Bastard Bonus to increase payment for each illegitimate kid.
Some people think that plan was a disaster, but it really wasn't.
Without the culture it created, there would be no democrat party today.
LBJ was a democrat genius.
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It's like LBJ's Great Society plan.
First you offer a guaranteed welfare income if they don't work.
Then you put in a cash penalty if they get married.
Then, most important, you set up a Bastard Bonus to increase payment for each illegitimate kid.
Some people think that plan was a disaster, but it really wasn't.
Without the culture it created, there would be no democrat party today.
LBJ was a democrat genius.
What about his 100 year quote, and who was it about ?
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Response to DAMANgoldberg (Original post)
Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:49 PM
Warpy (81,909 posts)
2. What our Puritan culture fails to realize is that some people are unfit for work
and a lot of the time, the disabilities are invisible ones like chronic depression, borderline mental issues, and debilitating autoimmune diseases. Abandoned mothers with small children are already working at full capacity and adding a paid job to that never works well for either.
Sigh. Some people have it tough. It builds character. You should use your tough life to rise above by working harder or figuring out another way to make the same money your healthy counterparts do. America was built this way and I'm glad.
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Tue Mar 31, 2015, 03:49 PM
Warpy (81,909 posts)
2. What our Puritan culture fails to realize is that some people are unfit for work
and a lot of the time, the disabilities are invisible ones like chronic depression, borderline mental issues, and debilitating autoimmune diseases. Abandoned mothers with small children are already working at full capacity and adding a paid job to that never works well for either.
Things would be so much more pleasant if despairing DUmmies like Nurse Hindenburg would go ahead and die.
Had she not been caught stealing hospital narcotics her world view would be a lot brighter.
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What about his 100 year quote, and who was it about ?
You mean this one?
“I’ll have those ******s voting Democratic for the next 200 years.†—Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One
http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/2867/lbj-quote-did-he-actually-say-this (http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/2867/lbj-quote-did-he-actually-say-this)
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There are people that can't work due to disabilities but there are a lot more people out there who are claiming to be disabled because of some imagined illness or just out of pure laziness to avoid work.
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You mean this one?
“I’ll have those ******s voting Democratic for the next 200 years.†—Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One
http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/2867/lbj-quote-did-he-actually-say-this (http://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/2867/lbj-quote-did-he-actually-say-this)
Yes I do mean that one.
Good find docstew !