Proud Public Servant (1,533 posts)
I work at the State Dept. Let's talk email.
So Hillary's failure to use government email for government purposes is blowing up today, perhaps rightly. (Certainly, DUers spare no scorn or outrage for Republicans when they do this kind of thing). I thought you might be interested in one person's inside-the-Department perspective. Here's what I'd note:
- Hillary at State was famous for being a Luddite. That hip tumblr of pics of her on her BlackBerry notwithstanding, she apparently didn't even have a computer on her desk and used to ask staffers to print out important email for her to read.
- State is famously behind the times when it comes to digital technology. When Colin Powell arrived in 2001, he called IT to his office because nothing seemed to be loading in his web browser. The techs patiently explained that that was because his computer wasn't connected to the internet; no desktop computers at State were. But if he wanted to get on the internet, there was a handy desk in a room down the hall that he could use! Powell changed that right away (it's one of the reason that State rank-and-file, who are overwhelmingly liberal Dems, regard Powell as the best Secretary they've ever worked for) but its systems still provide an inferior user experience compared to most people's private computers. (One example: Internet Explorer 7 came out in 2006; Internet Explorer 6 was the only browser available on most State desktops until 2012 or '13.)
- As bad as State's desktop systems were (and are), remote access is much, much worse. Using personal email for business is not all that uncommon at State precisely because, away from the desk, State email is notorious for its slow pace and frequent outages.
- Lots of people can live with crappy email and slow communications. The Secretary's staff can't. I've was on embassy staff for two different Hillary visits, and worked directly with her staff while she was on the ground (met her, too; she was lovely, her staff were the demon spawn of Hell -- and not especially competent demon spawn, either). These folks needed to be in constant, immediate communication with each other; State email was not a reliable tool for that.
So, there's your picture: a not especially tech-savvy Secretary and a wonky email system that was especially bad when accessed remotely -- and Hillary was always on the go.
I'm not a big Hillary fan, but I can absolutely understand why she would have stuck with a system she already knew, and already knew worked. That doesn't make it right, but it does suggest it may not be nefarious. Hanlon's razor applies: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
Aerows (29,430 posts)
9. She also famously stated that she
hadn't driven a car since 1996.
I don't know about you, but someone that detached from the reality of most folks isn't going to be my first choice of a candidate.
I'm a loyal Democrat, but I'm not that damn loyal.
Aerows (29,430 posts)
19. Same bullshit
different day.
It drives me nuts. And we are supposed to adhere to political loyalty to people that regularly don't follow the law, and don't hold their own political equals to the law, either?
It's just the same circus over and over again in Washington. I'm no more outraged anymore than I was when Bush did it, because I was outraged then, too. Boo-hoo, they are attacking Democrats. Boo-hoo, they are attacking Republicans.
Boo-hoo, they aren't following the law, and that is the problem.
Aerows (29,430 posts)
34. Excuse me?
Archiving communications by politicians didn't become law in 2014. It has been the LAW for about 2 centuries.
This isn't something new - good heavens.
Aerows (29,430 posts)
46. I am uniquely qualified
to speak on this issue, since I have administered email servers for YEARS.
I absolutely know the law regarding this, and anyone that tries to pretend that this is a new "thing" or a new "law" is talking out of their ass.
Journaling email has absolutely been a requirement for decades for the financial industry and for political purposes.
I'm going to put the damn brakes on this situation of someone is saying that archiving is not a requirement. I know for a FACT that it absolutely is, and I was pissed when Bush and Cheney attempted to evade archiving. Am I supposed to give Hillary a pass when she does it?
Dr Hobbitstein (1,490 posts)
82. Hillary archived her email.
She delivered 55,000 emails to the Benghazi panels.
No one is arguing that ARCHIVING was not a requirement. What's being argued is that using government email systems was NOT a requirement until 2014. Which is true.
She violated no laws here.
Aerows (29,430 posts)
62. And
It wasn't legal. Try me. This is not a new law.
You can dress it up as something new, but the fact remains that using outside email accounts, nevermind the security implications, does not bypass the fact that they are required by law to be archived.
Pick one. It's either ridiculously violating the law, or recklessly violating security policy.
The truth is, it's BOTH.
Aerows (29,430 posts)
84. Hillary Clinton is a lawyer
She used a personal email account to evade the law that all politicians must have their correspondence archived.
I don't know why you think people are stupid on DU, but ...duh... you use an outside account to evade archiving and add in a security problem to boot.
Is it wise to be discussing national security issues on a different account than the proper channels? No, it isn't. It's not like she was Secretary of State or anything and discussed things of national security.
Aerows (29,430 posts)
70. I have
over a decade of experience to back up my facts on the laws regarding archiving email.
I can't believe I have to give a lesson, on DU of all places, that Democrats should obey the law just like Republicans should.
Seriously?
Aerows (29,430 posts)
77. Hillary is a lawyer
She knows the law. She knew exactly what she was doing when she evaded the archiving system.
This isn't some newfangled law that just came into being last week, it has been in place for 2 decades.
You know it, I know it, and Hillary knows it, as do her opponents. If you don't want to get tagged for breaking the law, an excellent place to start is not breaking it in the first place.
I do have to admit that the raccoon whisperer is giving her fellow DUmmies absolute hell in this thread....
And we are off:
Why, yes. Yes you are...
[sarc] I am absolutely certain that HIllary turned over every last mail, did not skip any and and did not lose any [/sarc]
The whole point is that if she had chosen to follow the proscribed process we would not be having this disturbing conversation.
Winner of today's "even the blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut" contest
Winner of today's "even the blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut" contest
Winner of today's "even the blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut" contest
Proud Public Servant (1,533 posts)
- Hillary at State was famous for being a Luddite. That hip tumblr of pics of her on her BlackBerry notwithstanding, she apparently didn't even have a computer on her desk and used to ask staffers to print out important email for her to read.
But if he wanted to get on the internet, there was a handy desk in a room down the hall that he could use! Powell changed that right away (it's one of the reason that State rank-and-file, who are overwhelmingly liberal Dems, regard Powell as the best Secretary they've ever worked for)
The more I think on the story in this DU post, the more I'm convinced it's mostly :bouncy: . E.G. If DeptState is so technologically backwards, how did SecState Clinton access her emails? IOW, too many inconsistent factoids.
I work at the State Dept. Let's talk email.
The more I think on the story in this DU post, the more I'm convinced it's mostly :bouncy: . E.G. If DeptState is so technologically backwards, how did SecState Clinton access her emails? IOW, too many inconsistent factoids.
This DUmmy uses surprisingly good English for a housekeeper.
We need to pay attention to this one - I can see a potential self inflicted WallDuding. I suspect that the powers that be at the State Department will not appreciate him (or her) speaking publicly on the matter.
FWIW
So, yahoo e-mail beats government e-mail by a mile......but government run healthcare is going to be just fine. :hammer:
Hey Primitives ---
I seem to recall that you were all UP IN ARMS over Palin conducting a fraction of her business as Governor of Alaska using a private EMail account.
What happened to all of that righteous indignation ? It seems it has morphed into finding excuses for a similar (except its worse... way worse) transgression when the person responsible is one of your own.
Which brings me to this. Hillary must either think she is entitled, she is dumber than a box of rocks, or both. The reaming that the media gave Sarah Palin was severe, with plenty of articles still on the web by leftists demanding her head on a platter.
Yet Lady Cankles of Chappaqua goes ahead and does it anyway.(http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/200/8/1/derpy_hooves_poster_by_red4028-d57v7le.jpg)
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The computer server that transmitted and received Hillary Rodham Clinton's emails — on a private account she used exclusively for official business when she was secretary of state — traced back to an Internet service registered to her family's home in Chappaqua, New York, according to Internet records reviewed by The Associated Press.
Related Stories
The highly unusual practice of a Cabinet-level official physically running her own email would have given Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential candidate, impressive control over limiting access to her message archives. It also would distinguish Clinton's secretive email practices as far more sophisticated than some politicians, including Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin, who were caught conducting official business using free email services operated by Microsoft Corp. and Yahoo Inc.
Marnin -Mar. 3, 2015 at 10:26pm
Hillary’s claim to fame:
1975: Fired from job as a prosecutor during Nixon investigation, Senator in charge saying she is “completely incompetent and untrustworthyâ€
1980′s – Whitewater lies
1992 HillaryCare which was rejected by all
1992-2000 – slept in the White House with someone who preferred fat interns to her
2002-2008 NY Senator who was reknown for being remarkably unaccomplished and did little
2007 Ran for president – beaten by unknown first term senator that did nothing and only ever voted “present†on anything
2012-2015 made speeches, charging 250k per from anyone who would pay, foreign or domestic, an said little of value
2014 – released a book after a huge signing bonus, possibly because she and Slick Willy wereâ€broke when they left the White Houseâ€? Sold 3 copies or so.
2008-2012 Secretary of state – Bengahzi – What difference at this point does it make? Need I say more?
Feel free to add in more dates and “accomplishments†that I have forgotten…
Marnin
Rose Law Firm redux. :whatever:
So, we are now to believe that HRC is a Luddite who runs her own private email system... Okie-dokie... :whatever:
I don't know why you think people are stupid on DU........
Proud Public Servant (1,533 posts)
I work at the State Dept. Let's talk email.
A thought just hit me: as money-grubbing as the Clintons are, if Hillary was maintaining an email server in her house and paying for the domain and tech support, et al, you KNOW they billed the DOS for it and/or claimed it as a employment expense on taxes. Which means she used taxpayer dollars to enrich herself when she is the approving authority. Isn't that the definition of EMBEZZLEMENT?
Proud Public Servant (1,533 posts)
I work at the State Dept. Let's talk email.
So Hillary's failure to use government email for government purposes is blowing up today, perhaps rightly. (Certainly, DUers spare no scorn or outrage for Republicans when they do this kind of thing). I thought you might be interested in one person's inside-the-Department perspective. Here's what I'd note:
- Hillary at State was famous for being a Luddite. That hip tumblr of pics of her on her BlackBerry notwithstanding, she apparently didn't even have a computer on her desk and used to ask staffers to print out important email for her to read.
- State is famously behind the times when it comes to digital technology. When Colin Powell arrived in 2001, he called IT to his office because nothing seemed to be loading in his web browser. The techs patiently explained that that was because his computer wasn't connected to the internet; no desktop computers at State were. But if he wanted to get on the internet, there was a handy desk in a room down the hall that he could use! Powell changed that right away (it's one of the reason that State rank-and-file, who are overwhelmingly liberal Dems, regard Powell as the best Secretary they've ever worked for) but its systems still provide an inferior user experience compared to most people's private computers. (One example: Internet Explorer 7 came out in 2006; Internet Explorer 6 was the only browser available on most State desktops until 2012 or '13.)
- As bad as State's desktop systems were (and are), remote access is much, much worse. Using personal email for business is not all that uncommon at State precisely because, away from the desk, State email is notorious for its slow pace and frequent outages.
- Lots of people can live with crappy email and slow communications. The Secretary's staff can't. I've was on embassy staff for two different Hillary visits, and worked directly with her staff while she was on the ground (met her, too; she was lovely, her staff were the demon spawn of Hell -- and not especially competent demon spawn, either). These folks needed to be in constant, immediate communication with each other; State email was not a reliable tool for that.
So, there's your picture: a not especially tech-savvy Secretary and a wonky email system that was especially bad when accessed remotely -- and Hillary was always on the go.
I'm not a big Hillary fan, but I can absolutely understand why she would have stuck with a system she already knew, and already knew worked. That doesn't make it right, but it does suggest it may not be nefarious. Hanlon's razor applies: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.
I'm not a big Hillary fan, but I can absolutely understand why she would have stuck with a system she already knew, and already knew worked.
Even if she was doing something blatantly illegal? OK. ::)
Even if she was doing something blatantly illegal? OK. ::)
Aerows (29,430 posts)
70. I have
over a decade of experience to back up my facts on the laws regarding archiving email.
I can't believe I have to give a lesson, on DU of all places, that Democrats should obey the law just like Republicans should.
Seriously?
(http://conservativecave.com/Smileys/default/hearts_icons_06.gif)
Rush said that if she had her own server that means if she deleted an email it is DELETED. No recovery. Is that true?
Oh and since this is the scandal this week I have to wonder what's going on with Obama's other hand. Seems these scandals are distractions from what he is really up to. :(
There may very well not be a way to recover emails deleted on her server. However, if she was contacting someone on a .gov account, then there is a copy on government servers. If there is a copy on the receiving end and not on the origination end, then she obviously deleted them. Destruction of evidence is a felony... IJS
Interesting comment on Blaze article...
Feel free to add in more dates and “accomplishments†that I have forgotten…
There may very well not be a way to recover emails deleted on her server. However, if she was contacting someone on a .gov account, then there is a copy on government servers. If there is a copy on the receiving end and not on the origination end, then she obviously deleted them. Destruction of evidence is a felony... IJS
The story of West Chester investment adviser Rich Weinstein shows that sometimes even the White House is no match for one angry citizen with a fast Internet connection and plenty of determination.
Last week, Weinstein's relentless archive-diving on the intellectual origins of the Obamacare health insurance law helped put MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, often hailed as an "architect" of the plan, in the dock for hours of embarrassing interrogation from the U.S. House Oversight Committee.
The investment adviser says he began his sleuthing at the end of 2013, when he got a notice saying his family's health plan did not meet the standards of the Affordable Care Act. He found a new plan - that cost twice as much.
"When President Obama said, 'If you like your plan, you can keep it,' I believed him," Weinstein recalled. "I didn't even think about it." When he heard otherwise, he got angry: He felt the administration had lied.
He said he Googled "architects" of the law and pored over every video he could. "I wound up bingeing on Dr. Gruber," Weinstein said. The search was on.
Now he's famous.
And the plot thickens...she was just mad that he did it first
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/clinton-state-department-ousted-ambassador-using-private-email_876183.html (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/clinton-state-department-ousted-ambassador-using-private-email_876183.html)
The Clinton DoS FIRED the ambassador to Kenya in 2011. The reason? Private email.
She KNEW it was, if not illegal, at least wrong enough to remove high level officials for doing it. Therefore, she KNEW that what she was doing was against policy.
Every day it gets harder for Hitlery to explain her way out of this one.
It also would distinguish Clinton's secretive email practices as far more sophisticated than some politicians,
Thing is, she doesn't have to explain her way out. The MSM will do that for her.
They're trying, but failing. More an more is coming out and everyone is noticing. I have to agree with those that feel the media is not going to go out of its way to completely cover for her. Oh, they'll make an attempt, but I think they want Fauxchohantas Trotsky.
Every day it gets harder for Hitlery to explain her way out of this one.
Stick by one lie and go with it, idiots.
I'm somewhat mystified by something - I have yet to figure out if this is something that came out accidentally, which may be sticking to HRC, if this was done by the rabid left who actually believe she is a conservative, and this opens the door for Warren - or if this is a parting punch in the nose by the Obama's themselves.
Any one of these scenarios is possible.
Notice how I left out "Was leaked by a Republican" as an option. We all know there is no way any of them would do anything like that. They are either too cowardly, or they believe such a move is beneath them OR they are afraid the "press" will call them misogynists (cowardly).
Which is why they lose.
Andrea Mitchel is blaming the owebumaManiaMedia for Hitlery's email troubles,
But the AP doesn't agree with Andrea...
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2015/03/11/ap-rips-hillarys-e-mail-claims-striking-departure-norm (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2015/03/11/ap-rips-hillarys-e-mail-claims-striking-departure-norm)
Unprecedented is more like it.
Is this just an attempt (by the AP) to get the story over with as fast as possible so they can jump on her (Hillary's) band wagon when she announces ?
I'm thinking about how the "media" was on McCain's wagon until he looked like the nominee then turned their guns on him. :confused:
.
If that's their plan, they might be overdoing it. She could legitimately end up being charged for concealment or destruction of federal records. (Speaking of which, why hasn't the Benghazi committee subpeonaed the email backup tapes from the State Department for the MONTHS where Hillary submitted no emails? Even ONE email to or from her during that time would be a count of concealment.)
I think it's more likely that they want to clear her off the field for one of their more leftist candidates...
If that's their plan, they might be overdoing it. She could legitimately end up being charged for concealment or destruction of federal records. (Speaking of which, why hasn't the Benghazi committee subpeonaed the email backup tapes from the State Department for the MONTHS where Hillary submitted no emails? Even ONE email to or from her during that time would be a count of concealment.)
I think it's more likely that they want to clear her off the field for one of their more leftist candidates...
So, it turn out owebuma was lying(as usual)...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/09/white-house-hillary-and-obama-did-email-each-other/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/09/white-house-hillary-and-obama-did-email-each-other/)
Now it looks like there is no way he just found out about it in yesterday's news, like he said he did.
P.S. Did anyone notice our very own Big Dog just went over 10,000 posts ?
Is this just an attempt (by the AP) to get the story over with as fast as possible so they can jump on her (Hillary's) band wagon when she announces ?
I'm thinking about how the "media" was on McCain's wagon until he looked like the nominee then turned their guns on him. :confused:
.
Is this just an attempt (by the AP) to get the story over with as fast as possible so they can jump on her (Hillary's) band wagon when she announces ?
I'm thinking about how the "media" was on McCain's wagon until he looked like the nominee then turned their guns on him. :confused:
.
I propose that they know how hopeless she is as a candidate and want her gone.
And she doesn't want to go. :whistling: :fuelfire:Bill couldn't run her off with his army of sluts, so, yeah, she ain't going to go quietly into the night.