The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on February 23, 2015, 11:59:25 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141021541
Oh my.
alp227 (28,547 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:30 PM
VA Secretary Robert McDonald Falsely Claimed He Served In Special Forces
never mind the rest.....
mopinko (43,223 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:33 PM
1. he should resign.
like, right now. his ability to do his job just went down the shitter.
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:52 PM
10. Why? Because he attempted empathy with one down on his luck veteran...really?
mopinko (43,223 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:03 PM
17. vets will have no respect for him.
nor should they. special forces go through some truly harrowing training, and it is a high honor. it's not like saying you were in nam when you were in california.
stolen valor it is called. stolen.
dont think vets wont see it that way. he has deeply insulted a lot of people with that remark.
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:52 PM
9. How can an abject lie be minor? He was on camera claiming a history
he didn't have--and for the purpose of patronizing a fellow veteran, who was perhaps homeless, but didn't deserve to be fed a line of bullshit like he was a child.
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:54 PM
11. He claimed no "history".... He was attempting to engage, not mislead anyone....he has an
exemplary and crystal clear service history...tempest in an over sensitive media teapot.
Not like he was repeatedly lying to the world about being in a war zone, or in a helicopter under fire and lied about it repeatedly over years in order to self promote and build up false trust...not even in the same ballpark...sorry, you are wrong.
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:58 PM
13. Huh? Anyone honorable in the military knows you NEVER claim a service
record, education, or medals/honors you never earned. No, not even to some homeless guy for the purpose of "engaging" him. He could have said, truthfully, "I served in the 82nd Airborne". Why lie, and then keep going with it: "What years (were you in)?"
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:00 PM
14. So...he should....resign?? There was no mention of medals/honours, education, etc.....Context.
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:01 PM
15. Maybe he should. Is the truth flexible for him?
mopinko (43,223 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:06 PM
20. least of all special forces ferchrisakes.
he should resign because this shows how STUPID he is.
i'm not usually that rah rah about such things. but i have a nephew who is just retiring after 30 years in the service, and he went through all that. it aint no sewing circle.
TwilightGardener (44,299 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:10 PM
21. The defense seems to be "well, it was JUST a homeless vet." I mean, THOSE are
the guys you can bullshit, amirite? Even if the homeless man was himself bullshitting about being SF, a cabinet secretary shouldn't.
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:36 PM
25. So it ends. With a strawman.
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:51 PM
8. He said this in passing to a homeless man? .......so minor as to be laughable.
ForgoTheConsequence (3,351 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:27 PM
23. Because it's totally ok to lie, as long as it's just a homeless person.
Right?
Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:40 PM
27. Strawman? Correct?
arcane1 (27,599 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:45 PM
28. To whom must he say it before it counts? Recorded by CBS news, to a homeless man, is ok?
Jack Rabbit (43,030 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:49 PM
29. That can't even be the "least untruthful" approach
It's time for Mr. McDonald to spend more time with his family.
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The oak tree must have had a bumper crop of acorns, because a lot of blind squirrels found a nut.
They're absolutely right. If the VA Secretary lied about his service, something that is easily verified, his credibility with the community he is supposed to serve (i.e. Veterans) is shot. Every vet will look at him and say "He violated his integrity to ingratiate himself with one of us. What other smoke is he going to blow up our (collective) ass?"
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Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 10:40 PM
27. Strawman? Correct?
Sorry, Derf. You don't understand the concept.
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If Fred can't get anyone to agree with him that it's okay to lie about being in Special Forces, he should just start calling them all racist.
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Thanks, Fred, for showing even the clueless moonbats what a stupid piece of trash you are.
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Fred Sanders (10,542 posts)
Not like he was repeatedly lying to the world about being in a war zone, or in a helicopter under fire
Nobody bit on that one regarding the hildabeast or the other moonbat, Williams. DUmmy's are slipping.
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This life-long civilian cannot understand why a guy who served in the 82nd Airborne and graduated from Ranger School had to lie. Why couldn't he have said something like, "Yeah, I graduated from Ranger School"?
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elias49 (2,495 posts)
32. I agree Fred.
He was communicating with another human being. Empathizing.
More people should try it.
I DO get tired of the self-righteousness of some posters.
"He lied!!" - regardless of details, nuance.
"He broke a law" - despite a greater good.
Sanctimony
The left in a single post: lies="nuance" lawbreaking="greater good"
Thanks eliasnumbers for speaking the truth defending liberal lying.
As Coach has said time and time again -- liberals lie. All the time. Even when they don't have to.
From the mouths of babes...
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This life-long civilian cannot understand why a guy who served in the 82nd Airborne and graduated from Ranger School had to lie. Why couldn't he have said something like, "Yeah, I graduated from Ranger School"?
As a long-term member of the Armed Services, I agree. That right there would be better than claiming to be SF, although I'll at least give him credit for actually apologizing for lying and not saying "I'm sorry if you were offended by my lie".
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As a long-term member of the Armed Services, I agree. That right there would be better than claiming to be SF, although I'll at least give him credit for actually apologizing for lying and not saying "I'm sorry if you were offended by my lie".
To me Rangers, Special Forces, SEALS, and some others are all on an even par with respect to being elite forces.
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If he was lying, then he would have fooled me. I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces. If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?
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If he was lying, then he would have fooled me. I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces. If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?
I'm sort of confused on the whole thing too.
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If he was lying, then he would have fooled me. I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces. If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?
I think he meant:
(http://erisea-mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/power-rangers1.jpg)
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If he was lying, then he would have fooled me. I always thought Airborne Rangers were special forces. If Airborne Rangers aren't special forces, then who are?
It's actually somewhat complicated, and depends alot on the unit of assignment.
Any Soldier can attend the US Army Ranger School, which is basically an advanced infantry course. For some career fields, such as infantry, it is almost a prerequisite for advancement. Those who graduate from Ranger School earn the right to wear the Ranger tab, designating their successful completion of a course that, even if you finish all tasks, you can still fail if your peers wouldn't want to work with you (aka being peered out). These so-called "tabbed" Soldiers are able to be assigned anywhere in the Army, from the 82nd Airborne to 1st Armor Division. Frequently, they are also graduates of the US Army Basic Airborne Course, which would make them Airborne Rangers. These Soldiers are NOT part of US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC), and are not considered to be Special Operations.
There is also the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is assigned to USASOC, and therefore technically are Special Operations. Not all members of this unit are "tabbed", but they are all Airborne qualified and are referred to as Rangers by other members of the Regiment, as in Ranger Smith vs Private Smith.
What the VA Secretary claimed was that he was part of USASOC, when in fact he was tabbed and in the 82nd. The 82nd, while Airborne qualified, is part of Forces Command, not USASOC. It is a highly technical distinction that means worlds to vets. It is also why I will say "I'm a jumpmaster in the 82nd Airborne, and I know people in Special Forces." I will not claim to be SF myself.
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It's actually somewhat complicated, and depends alot on the unit of assignment.
Any Soldier can attend the US Army Ranger School, which is basically an advanced infantry course. For some career fields, such as infantry, it is almost a prerequisite for advancement. Those who graduate from Ranger School earn the right to wear the Ranger tab, designating their successful completion of a course that, even if you finish all tasks, you can still fail if your peers wouldn't want to work with you (aka being peered out). These so-called "tabbed" Soldiers are able to be assigned anywhere in the Army, from the 82nd Airborne to 1st Armor Division. Frequently, they are also graduates of the US Army Basic Airborne Course, which would make them Airborne Rangers. These Soldiers are NOT part of US Army Special Operations Command (USASOC), and are not considered to be Special Operations.
There is also the 75th Ranger Regiment, which is assigned to USASOC, and therefore technically are Special Operations. Not all members of this unit are "tabbed", but they are all Airborne qualified and are referred to as Rangers by other members of the Regiment, as in Ranger Smith vs Private Smith.
What the VA Secretary claimed was that he was part of USASOC, when in fact he was tabbed and in the 82nd. The 82nd, while Airborne qualified, is part of Forces Command, not USASOC. It is a highly technical distinction that means worlds to vets. It is also why I will say "I'm a jumpmaster in the 82nd Airborne, and I know people in Special Forces." I will not claim to be SF myself.
Hooah.
McDonald didn't claim to be part of SOCOM. He claimed to have served in the Special Forces.
He was commissioned with the USMA class of 1975. He resigned his commission in 1980, seven years before SOCOM was stood up. During his period of service, Special Forces was Special Forces. Green berets and SF tabs. Airborne wasn't SF. Rangers weren't SF.
McDonald lied, plain and simple. His apology is weak shit, too.
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Fred Sanders
10. Why? Because he attempted empathy with one down on his luck veteran...really?
No, you ****ing intestinal parasite. Because he faked empathy with a Veteran by lying.
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Fred Sanders (10,517 posts) Mon Feb 23, 2015, 09:54 PM
11. He claimed no "history".... He was attempting to engage
So lying = attempting to engage. We've said for years that DUmmies lie, they lie all the time. I'm convinced this extends to all democraticks and liberals. It's why I don't keep any as friends. Anybody who finds it so easy to lie, I don't want anything to do with. Nothing but trouble.