Author Topic: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"  (Read 711 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dutch508

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12521
  • Reputation: +1646/-1068
  • Remember
Quote
redgreenandblue (2,044 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213526657

Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act" vs "Insurrection Act"?
I'm trying to wrap my head around this. My understanding is that the "Posse Comitatus Act" forbids the use of the military on US soil, whereas the "Insurrection Act" allows it under some circumstances. The later was used e.g. to protect the Little Rock Nine.

So, if Trump uses the military to stop the riots, could he in principle be prosecuted or not?

 :whatever:

Quote
Fullduplexxx (3,154 posts)

1. Wow crickets .... maybe you should have titled this "circumcision yes no ?" Or something similar

Quote
Star Member highplainsdem (29,680 posts)

2. Explained in an OP about this that I posted two days ago:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213513271



See the links to the Twitter thread from law professor Steve Vladeck.

Quote
Star Member Takket (11,812 posts)

3. The very short version:

Insurrection act: government can use the military to put down rebellion.

Posse: no you can’t.

It's kind of the other way around.

Posse: You can't use the military in the USA

Insurr: Except when the shit gets real bad...

Quote
melm00se (3,968 posts)

6. The text of each gives some clarity

Quote
Posse Commitatus Act states

“Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.”


Quote
Insurrection Act

Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.


Posse Commitatus forbids the use of the military as law enforcement unless explicitly allowed under the constitution and/or an act of Congress.

The Insurrection Act allows for the President to deploy the military to to enforce the laws when the situation prevents normal law enforcement to act.

Posse Comitatus is not an absolute prevention upon using the military as a law enforcement mechanism. The use of the Armed Forces can be authorized by Act of Congress or if/when the President determines that the use of the Armed Forces is required to fulfill the President’s obligations under the Constitution to respond promptly in time of war, insurrection, or other serious emergency.

Quote
Star Member uponit7771 (67,030 posts)

15. +1, So it sounds like Trump needs a state permission or congress to act

 :thatsright:
The torch of moral clarity since 12/18/07

2016 DOTY: 06 Omaha Steve - Is dying for ****'s face! How could you not vote for him, you heartless bastards!?!

Offline hillneck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1516
  • Reputation: +119/-5
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2020, 11:58:27 AM »
These people are truly dense in the cranial cavity.  The active military have been sent to different places to help and/or stop the looters & rioters.  Hurricane's Andrew and Katrina to name a few.  When the local authorities are overwhelmed they will ask for help.  Then it's all based on the given ROE (Rules of Engagement).
In battle you have to show no mercy for mercy comes after the war when you still have the freedom to ask for it.

"Montani Semper Liberi"

Pray as if God will take care of all; act as if all is up to you.

Offline SVPete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 25825
  • Reputation: +2214/-242
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2020, 12:08:27 PM »
Shampeachment 3.0! NOW!!! :mental:  :tongue:
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2222/-127
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2020, 03:22:03 PM »
If protesters are blocking interstate highways, are they not interfering with interstate commerce, which is a federal matter?

Offline Crazy Horse

  • Army 0 Navy 34
  • Topic Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5570
  • Reputation: +236/-143
  • Sex, Booze and Bacon Minion
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2020, 06:22:49 PM »
If protesters are blocking interstate highways, are they not interfering with interstate commerce, which is a federal matter?

Or the movement of military forces?
You got off your ass, now get your wife off her back.

Offline Delmar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5182
  • Reputation: +523/-40
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2020, 09:04:02 PM »
Quote
Response to Fullduplexxx (Reply #1)Tue Jun 2, 2020, 08:27 AM
fescuerescue (2,024 posts)
10. Probably because their aren't that many legal scholars here

Perhaps a law forum might be a better place to seek such expertise.

Right now DU is overflowing with epidemiologists, it will take a couple hours on Wikipedia for them to make the transition.
"I sat down, and I said, 'America's back' and Mitterrand from Germany — I mean from France — looked at me and said … "Well, how long are you back for?"
Crooked Joe Biden

Offline jukin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15737
  • Reputation: +1713/-170
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2020, 09:18:58 AM »
Let me help.  If rioting goes on for more than 24 business hours, the President can call up all of dance troupes in America. They then ordered to perform interpretive dance at the riot hot spots.  Additionally all cat walkers are on stand by to assist should the dancers fail in their mission to halt all rioting.

I hope this helps you on your quest for knowledge of things you should have learned in the 5th grade.
When you are the beneficiary of someone’s kindness and generosity, it produces a sense of gratitude and community.

When you are the beneficiary of a policy that steals from someone and gives it to you in return for your vote, it produces a sense of entitlement and dependency.

Offline freedumb2003b

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6053
  • Reputation: +821/-72
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2020, 04:07:11 PM »
If protesters are blocking interstate highways, are they not interfering with interstate commerce, which is a federal matter?

Not if I am driving.  Then they are just speedbumps.
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an ax

Hello to the Baizuo lurkers from DU, DI, JPR and Huffpo

DUmmies can no more understand the "Cave" than a rat can understand a thunderbolt, but they fear it just the same. Fear the "Cave", DUmmies. Fear it well. Big Dog 12-Jan-2015

Proud charter member of the Death Squad Hate Force! https://conservativecave.com/home/index.php?topic=112331.msg1386168#msg1386168

Ted Kennedy is the only person with an actual confirmed kill in the war on women.

Offline thundley4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40571
  • Reputation: +2222/-127
Re: Any legal scholars here that can explain "Posse Comitatus Act"
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2020, 04:27:11 PM »
Not if I am driving.  Then they are just speedbumps.

But some local mayors/county officials have allowed interstates to be blocked in the jurisdiction. I think they might be in violation of laws governing the interstate system. We have all seen the signs: NO PEDESTRIANS, BICYCLES OR MOTOR-DRIVEN CYCLES ALLOWED.