Star Member onecaliberal (10,806 posts) https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210338404
It is entirely possible votes were tampered with!"
Quote from former Associate Director of National Intelligence.
That contention relies on the notion that Russia did everything in its capability to capture the election, from hijacking social media platforms to recruiting Americans to assist them, and they breached various voting systems in dozens of states, but the one the one thing they held back from doing, was change votes themselves (even though, as the work of Dr. Simons and other experts show, they could do so ‘invisibly’). Why would Putin hold back in this one instance, when he has shown no such restraint in any other way?
The answer is, in all likelihood: he didn’t hold back. Claims that votes were not changed to ensure the election of Putin’s tool, are looking less plausible by the day
https://t.co/hKOkwHkUIP
Not to mention the FBI'CIA/NSA and 'seventeen intelligence agencies' all say no votes were changed...
DAILYKOS has one former intel type that says it could have happened....
Enoki33 (584 posts)
6. By extension dotard is likely illegitimate. Felt good to write that.
dchill (16,382 posts)
8. Yep. Game changer in at least four states.
Dems legitimately won the Presidency AND the Senate.
procon (9,453 posts)
10. Of course votes were altered! Why else would Russia invest so much money and
effort in hacking into US balloting systems and Democratic servers? That was the whole purpose! The Russian's were not going to all that trouble just to be the electronic version of a snoopy Peeping Tom, and the hacking wasn't done as a lark.
The Russians had a big goal, the quid pro quo deal of getting Trump elected so he would remove their restrictive sanctions. As a side effect, they also proved that they could manipulate any future elections, either keeping Trump in power as long as he played ball, or casting doubts and uncertainty in the voting process that would rock the whole country.
Star Member lunatica (35,087 posts)
15. Adding to that that Putin wants the Arctic oil
It’s worth billions or maybe trillions of dollars for Putin and Tillerson (head of Exxon), ergo his appointment as Secretary of State.
Their mouths go cotton dry at their ravenous and insatiable craving for that oil! It’s also the reason they deny climate change. Putin will and has done anything to get that oil. Murder and even destroy us if he has to.
Star Member Hoyt (33,097 posts)
16. Ruskies didn't have to change votes. There were plenty of white wing racists and Democratic
Last edited Sat Mar 10, 2018, 09:40 PM - Edit history (1)
"protesters" ready to vote against Clinton or sit on sidelines. Ruskies clearly added to lies, etc., leading up to November. But too many leaning Blue were willing to believe the lies, racism, protectionism, America First BS, etc.
Sure it's "possible," but I think we are fooling ourselves if we truly believe that's why we lost.
Right on que: THE CT experts...
RandomAccess (2,578 posts)
25. Here's why we lost --
Hillary didn't lose because she was less POPULAR. She lost because of James Comey's letters and because of some even more important factors -- more important because they're not going away. They will be used against us in every election going forward, unless we can stop them.
The big problems are voter suppression, Russian meddling, and targeted voter propaganda through Twitter, Google, Facebook, and other forms of social media. There is no question that the Trump campaign, through Cambridge Analytica, did this -- and that the Russians did this. The only question is how much they conspired together in the propaganda campaign.
We need to figure out how to defend the democratic process from fake news and micro-targeted AI propaganda -- or lose our democracy. https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029576691
DO NOT underestimate the overarching reach AND impact of the Russian bots. They were everywhere, they were fierce, clever, extremely sophisticated and very, very effective.
Here is how they stole the election, well this and KGB operatives V Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922
Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824
Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393
http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/
PALMER: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/rigged-election-donald-trump-won-every-surprise-swing-state-by-the-same-1-margin/118/
The most commonly posited explanation of Donald Trump’s shocking election victory was that every professional pollster in the nation – despite each working independently and using differing methodologies – somehow managed to overlook the same pockets of Trump voters in these states. If such pockets did exist, they would have existed in varying sizes in each of the four states, thus resulting in different sized wins in each.
Ask any statistician and they’ll tell you that a reasonable distribution of the results would have been Trump winning one of the states by one percent, won one of them by perhaps three percent, won one of them by two percent, lost one of them by one percent, or something along those lines. But instead the voting tallies looked startlingly different from any natural distribution. In fact they looked startlingly the same.
According to the New York Times, the voting results broke down like this: Trump won Florida by just over one percent of the vote. He also won Pennsylvania by just over one percent. He won Michigan by just under one percent. And he won Wisconsin by precisely one percent. That’s not how numbers tend to work in the real world.
On its own, this kind of suspiciously consistent numerical dispersion across the four states that decided the election would be something that could be written off as a mere fluke. But when you put it within the context of the numerous other ways in which the voting tallies make no mathematical sense, it points to the numbers having been rigged or altered.
MikeFarb @mikefarb1
#unhackthevote
Did Trump win Michigan? I don' think so.
Won by 10,704 but wait
75,355 Ballots Thrown Out
87 Machines Broke Down in Detrioit
View image on TwitterView image on Twitter
MikeFarb
@mikefarb1
#unhackthevote
Did Trump win Michigan? I don' think so.
Won by 10,704 but wait
75,355 Ballots Thrown Out
87 Machines Broke Down in Detrioit
7:33 PM - May 8, 2017
4,545
5,399 people are talking about this
Twitter Ads info and privacy
Star Member Hermit-The-Prog (884 posts)
49. thanks; people tend to ignore purged voters
With all of the prongs of the attack, it was not necessary for votes to be "flipped" in order to steal the election. Manipulation of the voter rolls was just one more part of voter suppression and we know the Russians had the opportunity to assist with that.
Matt_R (431 posts)
72. I beleive you are describing Russian "bots"
Yep, you are describing the Russian "bots." 99% sure all the Democrats infighting were Russians starting, then getting others to join in on the Hillary hate.
Star Member watoos (728 posts)
26. I have been saying from the very beginning
that votes were flipped. When experts say there is no evidence that votes were flipped, they are correct, however, there is no proof that votes weren't flipped. 4 manufacturers supply our voting machines and their programs are deemed proprietary. So you tell me, how many machines were pulled aside and independently audited? My guess is zero. How can we determine if voting machines weren't tampered with if we can't check any of them?
We need paper ballots and need them fast.
Normal person: "There is no proof any votes were changed or any voting machines were hacked by anyone."
DUmpmonkie: "That's exactly the proof that the votes were changed!"
Normal Person: 'What?"
DUmpmonkie: "DUACDUACCUAC!!!"
Iliyah (13,320 posts)
27. Thousands of Detroit ballots were suddently missing and not counted
Thousands that would have been a win for HRC from MI. Suppression of thousands in WI, and so on.
I hope Mueller has an eye on this as well.
um...
MichMan (1,338 posts)
37. That is incorrect
The votes in Detroit were not able to be recounted in Steins recount attempt. They were originally counted and due to incompetence by Detroit election workers were not able to be confirmed in the recount because they were overvotes.
The were counted as originally cast and most likely favored Hillary since Detroit was 98% Democratic
There were counties in the Detroit area that had 115% voter turnout for Hillary... needless to say some of the votes might have been fraudulent...
Star Member Eliot Rosewater (12,788 posts)
28. Have been saying this from day one.
You dont spend 40 years, billions of dollars on assets on the ground in this country, some so deep they were BORN here, to get a dream candidate like dumbshit and then let YOU and ME decide on election day.
And they are gonna do it AGAIN
Star Member lunamagica (7,537 posts)
31. I have never doubted it happened. The election was stolen
Star Member samnsara (4,129 posts)
33. ive always thought tally's were reversed...many of the numbers were backwards than predicted..
Star Member Botany (46,361 posts)
35. The voting machines and the tabulators have electronic "back doors" programed and hard wired... into them that might allow manipulation of the data and not leave any trace that someone
was there. Ever since they passed HAVA (help america vote act) we have seen a red shift in
voting that does not match what the majority of people want or the change in population dynamics.
SoCalMusicLover (2,928 posts)
52. Our Only Chance Might Be If Mueller Knows & Is Following Tangent
It is pretty much pointless to think the Democratic Party will ever do anything. In fact, perhaps they have some sort of quid pro quo with the repubs, where they're unable to speak about the subject. Either that or they're too blind to see why elections continue to get stolen from them. Perhaps the 2 parties feel they need each other, so one side won't show how corrupt the other is at any given time.
All I know is that I continue to get less interested in voting, since I feel my vote is irrelevant, and the rule of law is as well. Why bother when the outcome is predetermined? Would anybody play the lottery if they were 100% Certain to lose? What is the point?
I've seen several election riggings in the last 20 years, Presidential and otherwise, and have no doubt it happened in 2016.
This is how Trump will win in 2020: DU and the left refuse to look at the real reasons Hillary lost and will continue along the same path... maybe even with Hillary running again!
