primitive doesn't give a flying fu...dge

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025417039

Oh my.

Damn, it's good to find something not the current fad de jour.

magical thyme (8,199 posts)    Wed Aug 20, 2014, 10:33 AM

I don't give a flying **** what ISIS wants or why they did it

Because to worry about their goal is to give them control of our response. Yesterday afternoon, before it had hit DU, I watched for a fraction of second before I had to turn it off. I know exactly what they did. At first I simply wanted to annihilate them. I wanted to turn the entire region into a pane of glass. It took quite some time for me to process my initial horror and rage.
 
It doesn't matter whether their culture is thousands of years of brutality or whether we caused the brutality by attacking and brutalizing them repeatedly since the west imposed artificial boundaries and its own "leaders" on them. The bottom line is that we broke the ME when we killed Saddam and continued breaking it when we fostered revolutions in the other ME countries.
 
We may or may not have fathered the monster, but we certainly goaded the monster and set it loose.
 
Nothing that you or I say or write or protest will make one iota's difference as to how our government responds to yesterday's horror. We are just noise. They are not listening. At best, they will have paid staff that reads and listens, and comes up with ways to counter what we say if it goes against their decisions. I have no doubt there will be a reponse, and I expect it will be violent. I'm ok with that. They must be stopped.
 
Therefore, I intend to focus on what I want and what I can do. What I want is to get us out of the ME, period.
 
We can't go cold turkey. It's easy to blame the greed of the oil companies, but the fact is our lives are so intertwined with oil that we would die in large numbers if we tried. Instead, we need to remove it from our lives when we can, in whatever way we can.
 
Aside from the obvious, we use oil for a lot of things: plastic, car and bicycle tires, mining the metals used to manufacture cars and tires and other stuff, artificial fertilizer to grow food, transport of food, and more.
 
So what I can do is double-down on what I have been planning, which is to get myself off oil so I am not contributing to the problem. I am focussing on insulating this fall, specifically in the room that loses the most heat and has the potential for a wood stove for backup. Then I will go for alternate heat, water and cooking.
 
I will continue to reduce what I use of the above, re-use what I can't eliminate or already have (I have 8 year old zip lock bags that I wash after every use), and recycle what I have no need for. I will continue to walk where I can. Instead of replacing the car, which gets 40+mpg even with 235,000 miles on it, I will live with it until it dies, or unless I die first because it will take more oil to make a new car than this one will use. If I'm able, I will move to a place where I don't need a car at all.
 
I will continue to expand my organic garden so I'm less and less dependent on artificial fertilizer and food transported from outside my location.
 
I watched the moments lead up to the horror, and watched for a fraction of a second. I know exactly what they did.
 
He was very brave.

Question.

Now remember, I don't do television or youtube; can't hear, and so it's pointless.

Did they actually show the actual beheading?

No link desired, please.

Bragi (7,262 posts)    Wed Aug 20, 2014, 10:54 AM

2. I care who they are, and why they do what they do

If people don't care about the specifics, they can and will make terrible mistakes that will worsen the situation.
 
As for your solution -- taking yourself off oil -- I have no problem with it for a whole set of reasons. Do it.
 
However, I doubt individual action of this sort will do much to extract America from ME politics. For this most part, the problem isn't oil, it's Israel. As long as Israel fails to make peace with its neighbors, and the U.S continues to support Israeli wars and intransigence, then the U.S will remain up to its eyeballs in ME politics. The jihadists will make it so by escalating their attacks in the ME, and by attacking U.S. interests and assets abroad, and in the U.S itself.
 
Alternately, if Israel could settle with its neighbors, then I think the whole ME region could stabilize, since most leaders in the ME have no reason to allow ISIS to continue to grow in influence, nor do most people in the ME want to live a 12th century lifestyle under brutal rule by extreme jihadists.
 
Anyway, that's how I currently see it.

R. P. McMurphy (464 posts)    Wed Aug 20, 2014, 10:56 AM

3. You're right. Our "leaders" aren't going to . . .

get us out of any of the messes they've gotten us into. We are going to have to force a movement from the bottom-up and changing our lifestyles will be key to doing this since our "leaders" can't seem to get anything done.

[BlueStateSaint]

Apparently they did show the actual beheading, before the video was pulled from YouTube.  I've seen a screencap from it that shows Foley's bloody, severed head resting on the small of his back, just above where his hands are tied.  It's not for the queasy.

[hillneck]

Question.

Now remember, I don't do television or youtube; can't hear, and so it's pointless.

Did they actually show the actual beheading?

No link desired, please.

Apparently it was a muzzie with a British accent.

[FlaGator]

I have a solution for the ITIL problem and it involves lots of napalm and hellfire missiles.

[Gina]

I watched up til he grabbed him around the neck to cut then I cut it off.  I am still in shock how he just sat there waiting.  No tears, nothing.

I made the mistake of watching the Nick Berg video once and I can't get his scream out of my mind

[JohnnyReb]

DUmmie said, "We are just noise. They are not listening." ....I bet that even the DUmmie that spoke this profound truth doesn't realize its absolute truthfulness.

[67 Rover]

I have a solution for the ITIL problem and it involves lots of napalm and hellfire missiles.

I'll see your napalm and raise you a BLU-82.

[JohnnyReb]

Use drones to spray the middle east with the Ebola virus.

[Wineslob]

It doesn't matter whether their culture is thousands of years of brutality or whether we caused the brutality by attacking and brutalizing them repeatedly since the west imposed artificial boundaries and its own "leaders" on them. The bottom line is that we broke the ME when we killed Saddam and continued breaking it when we fostered revolutions in the other ME countries.

The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him

http://www.meforum.org/713/beheading-in-the-name-of-islam


This IS Islam. DUmmy.

[wasp69]

magical thyme (8,199 posts)    Wed Aug 20, 2014, 10:33 AM

The bottom line is that we broke the ME when we killed Saddam and continued breaking it when we fostered revolutions in the other ME countries.
 
Nothing that you or I say or write or protest will make one iota's difference as to how our government responds to yesterday's horror. We are just noise.
 
I intend to focus on what I want and what I can do. What I want is to get us out of the ME, period.
 
So what I can do is double-down on what I have been planning, which is to get myself off oil so I am not contributing to the problem. I am focussing on insulating this fall, specifically in the room that loses the most heat and has the potential for a wood stove for backup. Then I will go for alternate heat, water and cooking.
 
I will continue to reduce what I use of the above, re-use what I can't eliminate or already have (I have 8 year old zip lock bags that I wash after every use), and recycle what I have no need for. I will continue to walk where I can. Instead of replacing the car, which gets 40+mpg even with 235,000 miles on it, I will live with it until it dies, or unless I die first because it will take more oil to make a new car than this one will use. If I'm able, I will move to a place where I don't need a car at all.
 
I will continue to expand my organic garden so I'm less and less dependent on artificial fertilizer and food transported from outside my location.

I really do wish there was a way I could make this ****ing retard understand that no amount of "Bush sucks", or "obama screwed up", or green living is going to matter to the savages that are running amok in Iraq right now - they could care less if you're a good liberal or not.  I wish I could penetrate that type of arrogant stupidity, I truly do, but that DUmbass wouldn't understand why an islamokazie was sawing its head off even as its severed head went tumbling to the ground.

Bragi (7,262 posts)    Wed Aug 20, 2014, 10:54 AM

2.

For this most part, the problem isn't oil, it's Israel.

[thundley4]

Use drones to spray the middle east with the Ebola virus.

No way!  Obama allows too many of his friends from there to come to the US.

[BlueStateSaint]

I'll see your napalm and raise you a BLU-82.

I'll raise you a MOAB . . .

[DefiantSix]

I'll raise you a MOAB . . .

I'll raise you 288 W88 warheads...

[BlueStateSaint]

I'll raise you 288 W88 warheads...

Weren't they all done away with, so now the Trident missiles have One Big Bomb on them? 

[DefiantSix]

Weren't they all done away with, so now the Trident missiles have One Big Bomb on them?

I'm pretty sure we still have 8 boats still patrolling (4 pac fleet; 4 lant fleet). NHSparky would probably be more tied in than I am, but I think they only got around to converting 3-4 boats into SSGNs, and I can't imagine that any accelerators were stepped on for that program when The Holy WON of ShitCago was immaculated.

[BlueStateSaint]

I'm pretty sure we still have 8 boats still patrolling (4 pac fleet; 4 lant fleet). NHSparky would probably be more tied in than I am, but I think they only got around to converting 3-4 boats into SSGNs, and I can't imagine that any accelerators were stepped on for that program when The Holy WON of ShitCago was immaculated.

What I meant was this--weren't all of the MIRVs for one missile combined into One Big Bomb for the missile?

[thundley4]

What I meant was this--weren't all of the MIRVs for one missile combined into One Big Bomb for the missile?

I thought the MIRV's were done away with under some arms treaty.

[BlueStateSaint]

I thought the MIRV's were done away with under some arms treaty.

That was the reason why.

[DefiantSix]

I thought the MIRV's were done away with under some arms treaty.

That was the reason why.

Just re-read the brief on the START II treaty (what came up under "treaty eliminate MIRVs" search terms).  START II introduced the concept of "downloading" the MIRV payload on ICBM vehicles.  However it only stipulated the payload reduction of the chosen system(s) by "up to (4) warheads", it only applied to (2) chosen delivery systems in the inventory of the signatory parties, and - if I read it right - specifically excludes SLBM delivery systems from the treaty restrictions.  The treaty appears to be aimed at the Minuteman III and SS-18 vehicles, specifically. 

I could be wrong, but it appears - insofar as START II is concerned - Trident D5 is still permitted it's full compliment of warheads

[BlueStateSaint]

Just re-read the brief on the START II treaty (what came up under "treaty eliminate MIRVs" search terms).  START II introduced the concept of "downloading" the MIRV payload on ICBM vehicles.  However it only stipulated the payload reduction of the chosen system(s) by "up to (4) warheads", it only applied to (2) chosen delivery systems in the inventory of the signatory parties, and - if I read it right - specifically excludes SLBM delivery systems from the treaty restrictions.  The treaty appears to be aimed at the Minuteman III and SS-18 vehicles, specifically. 

I could be wrong, but it appears - insofar as START II is concerned - Trident D5 is still permitted it's full compliment of warheads

There's another START treaty which takes effect this year.  Something about only 240 warheads allowed in SLBMs at sea at any given time.  Sparky, where are you when we need you?

[DefiantSix]

There's another START treaty which takes effect this year.  Something about only 240 warheads allowed in SLBMs at sea at any given time.  Sparky, where are you when we need you?

Just nadin'ed "START III", and it came up as something that never went very far. (Never even got off the negotiating table.)  Did it go under some other name?

Correction: just read a little further to Lord Zero and his "New START" treaty: it eliminates MIRVs in ICBM systems only. The Minuteman IIIs still in battery are restricted to a single warhead specifically.  ONce again, the SLBM systems are left pretty much as they were designed.

LINK

[thundley4]

Just nadin'ed "START III", and it came up as something that never went very far. (Never even got off the negotiating table.)  Did it go under some other name?

Correction: just read a little further to Lord Zero and his "New START" treaty: it eliminates MIRVs in ICBM systems only. The Minuteman IIIs still in battery are restricted to a single warhead specifically.  ONce again, the SLBM systems are left pretty much as they were designed.

LINK

But do we know what Obama has ordered done unilaterally as far as reductions go?

[lastparker]

I watched up til he grabbed him around the neck to cut then I cut it off.  I am still in shock how he just sat there waiting.  No tears, nothing.

I made the mistake of watching the Nick Berg video once and I can't get his scream out of my mind

You and me both! I refuse to watch this one, but I hope to God it was faster and more merciful than Berg's.

[DefiantSix]

But do we know what Obama has ordered done unilaterally as far as reductions go?

Knowing that his purpose for being in the White House is essentially to be the 'Manchurian Candidate' that hamstrings the US for the next 100 years, I wouldn't bet against his slashing the operational budget so deeply that at least half the SSBN inventory is sitting pier-side in perpetuity.  But as the e-mails regarding those decisions have probably already been lost, I have to go based on technical capabilities, rather than intentions.

[J P Sousa]

I'll raise you a MOAB . . .

I'm reminded of the Gulf War where the CBU-87/B Combined Effects Munitions (CEM) (I think it was the one) Cluster bombs were used.

Seems to me it would be a good weapon for the ISIS crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1__DS94pz1o

.