DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 10:50 PM
Original message
You will never - in a thousand years - guess the cause of our big fire today.
We have a big fire burning at Hole-In-The-Ground (a Maar volcano to
the southwest of me). We (the US Forest Service) have 12 units on the fire, including a
helicopter for bucket drops. Additionally, there are firefighters from the BLM, the Oregon Dept.
of Forestry, and a rural VFD.
The first fire crews to arrive at the fire witnessed ATVs speeding away
from the scene. A fire investigator intercepted those ATVers at their camp,
where they were rapidly packing to leave. He confronted the people and
they admitted to starting the fire. How did they start the fire (this is the absolutely
unbelievable part)? THEY WERE FIRING A 50-CAL WEAPON INTO
HOLE-IN-THE-GROUND! A 50-CAL! They had the weapon with them at their
camp (I don't yet know if it was a single-shot, automatic, or machine
gun).
"What is a 50-caliber?" you ask. It is basically what the VC and NVA
used to shoot down helicopters and low-flying airplanes in Vietnam. A
50-cal round can be several combinations of armor-piercing, explosive,
and/or incendiary (and, probably others).
What are idiots like this doing in our National Forest shooting an
anti-aircraft weapon? The only thing as stupid as setting the fire was
their admission - without an attorney present - that they set it. They
are now in a heap-o trouble, facing federal and state charges (and
liable for the entire cost of the firefighting operation).
[several pictures of smoke]
Wind changes everything​," wildland firefighte​rs say. A late afternoon windshift (from southeast to northwest)
and velocity increase played havoc with the Hole-In-Th​e-Ground fire. The fire jumped the fire line and the
firefighte​rs had to pull back. The wind made helicopter bucket drops impossible​.
madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Because the ****ing NRA believes that any asshole should be able to
shoot any ****ing weapon they want to where ever they ****ing want to.
**** them.
ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. But, but, but
Johm McCain told me illegal aliens were to blame! Not Elmer Fudds with 50-cals!
alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. The 50 cal is a bad assed weapon. I got to shoot one in the
Army. That was during basic. What the **** were they doing bringing that thing to a park? Stupid
(http://www.olive-drab.com/images/firearms_mg_m2.jpg)
The Big Vetolski (56 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. Thanks for posting the picture. Maybe it will do something to
dispel the notion that .50 cals are just anti-aircraft weapons. They're also very potent anti-personnel and, for that matter, anti-light vehicle weapons as well. The bullets are about 6 inches long. One of the most ridiculous depictions of their use was in "Rambo," where Sylvester Stallone was firing one from his hip. Absurd! The recoil would knock any human being on his ass, which is why .50 cals are always mounted on something.
I got to shoot one once, too, in the Navy, at the Pacific Ocean. I'd never dream of firing one in a park. That's just nuts. That violates even the NRA's safety standards.
DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I just used anti-aircraft as an example (because of my intimate experience with 12.7mm)
Had the 12.7mm (50-cal) that ripped through my wing in 1970 exploded, as it was designed to do, I probably would not be posting here tonight. I was a lucky-ducky.
NickB79 (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. The chance they were firing a gun even remotely like your pic is slim
Unless they're freaking millionaires, as a legally owned gun like that would retail for close to 6 figures on the civilian market.
madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
27. You can thank the NRA and their lackeys in the gungeon for legalizing that. nt
DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Truth be told, I broke down and bought a carbine for my wilderness situation.
I did not want to, but I was just too worried about Nick and the mountain lions out here (I spotted one on this butte in late May). I got a Marlin lever-action 44MAG short-barreled carbine. I hate the mofo. And, now that I have it, I feel that I really don't need it. But, as long as I'm doing these wilderness fire seasons, I'll keep it. Close by.
DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Jul-03-11 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
34. BTW: My day began at 0220 AM with another fire
I did not even mention that. So my tail is dragging (as is my tale). A lost camper built a HUGH!! bonfire about 4 miles from my lookout. I got up at 2:20 to take care of nature and saw this bright orange glow at the base of Quartz Mountain. So I watched it - dozing off and on - until dawn. Then I had enough light and plenty of smoke to plot and report that fire. Our crew got in and extinguished the fire, then they led him three miles to his intended camp (with his buddies).
Ching-ching! Overtime! Maybe 17.5 hours today!
madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Because the ****ing NRA believes that any asshole should be able to
shoot any ****ing weapon they want to where ever they ****ing want to.
**** them.
Why do I think DemoTex is a phony vet? He claims to be a forest ranger. A few months back, he was transferred to another duty station and because he was inexperienced, he wanted to know what kind of gun to buy for bear/wild animal protection while in the sticks.
His avatar is a Vietnam Service Medal.
The VC/NVA used 12/7mm. American forces used the 50 BMG. It seems like he should know this.
obama signed the law allowing firearms in National Forests. Take it up with him.
Different state.
Barrett makes several models that can be carried. The Ma Deuce is not a plinking weapon.
Another clueless DUmmy. Rambo used a M60, which is a 30 cal.
Whoops. He's a combat pilot. Who'd thunk it.
Dirty freeper troll.
The gungeon is a section on the island that is populated by pro gun democrats(moles). Nice slam. Someone should alert Der Skimmer.
I wouldn't be surprised if DemoTex didn't start the fire.
Uh, question.
I really hate to question, but I must.
If the primitive was a pilot in 1970, how come he's still working, and not retired?
Nineteen-seventy was 41 years ago, and one assumes he had at least a couple of years of pilot-training under his belt when that happened with his airplane. Surely the primitive would be at least 65 years old now, if not more.
Wait one minute here, was not the 50 caliber guns at one time called Buffalo Guns ???
Perhaps a bunch of hungry people decided to bag a wild Buffalo and some how missed the game and started a fire.
The fact that the Buffalow hunters that killed millions in a few short years using 50 caliber guns and never burned down a few states is interesting. :killemall: :killemall: :sarcasm:
You're thinking cap and ball. That's a whole nuther animal. Think the guns at the Alamo.
Anyway. I think the Buffalo gun was a .62 Hawkin
I love his pictures and I think he's for real.
From what I can gather he lives in SC and travels to Oregon every year to work at a fire lookout. He has SC Viet Nam veteran tags on the truck and does look to be in his later 60's. Maybe he does it for the solitude or loves the high desert.
Nice pictures from the lookout (http://journals.democraticunderground.com/DemoTex)
I love his pictures and I think he's for real.
From what I can gather he lives in SC and travels to Oregon every year to work at a fire lookout. He has SC Viet Nam veteran tags on the truck and does look to be in his later 60's. Maybe he does it for the solitude or loves the high desert.
Nice pictures from the lookout (http://journals.democraticunderground.com/DemoTex)
I have namvet plates on my truck. but I had to send the DMV something called a DD-214. did he???
I love his pictures and I think he's for real.Looks legit to me, also. I did alot of shooting in the Grasslands in Wyoming over the past 18 months. Mostly .223/5.56, some .308/7.62 and a couple of times with (I presume) Barret Point 5-0. Never started no fires, tho.
From what I can gather he lives in SC and travels to Oregon every year to work at a fire lookout. He has SC Viet Nam veteran tags on the truck and does look to be in his later 60's. Maybe he does it for the solitude or loves the high desert.
Nice pictures from the lookout (http://journals.dtemocraticunderground.com/DemoTex)
I have namvet plates on my truck. but I had to send the DMV something called a DD-214. did he???
Uh, question.DUmmy DemoTex was in the air wing of TiT's imaginary Seal Team.
I really hate to question, but I must.
If the primitive was a pilot in 1970, how come he's still working, and not retired?
Nineteen-seventy was 41 years ago, and one assumes he had at least a couple of years of pilot-training under his belt when that happened with his airplane. Surely the primitive would be at least 65 years old now, if not more.
DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:29 PMThere are a few types of fifty projectiles.
Response to Reply #16
22. I just used anti-aircraft as an example (because of my intimate experience with 12.7mm)
Had the 12.7mm (50-cal) that ripped through my wing in 1970 exploded, as it was designed to do, I probably would not be posting here tonight. I was a lucky-ducky.
There are a few types of fifty projectiles.
None of them technically, are explosive.
I suspect a poser.
If demotex is reading this thread, perhaps he could supply us with his flight school class number.
You're thinking cap and ball. That's a whole nuther animal. Think the guns at the Alamo.Bingo. I would wager that at least 99.998% of all .50 cal. weapons in this country are muzzleloaders used for deer, even if you count miliary weapons.
DemoTex (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-03-11 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
34. BTW: My day began at 0220 AM with another fire
I did not even mention that. So my tail is dragging (as is my tale). A lost camper built a HUGH!! bonfire about 4 miles from my lookout. I got up at 2:20 to take care of nature and saw this bright orange glow at the base of Quartz Mountain. So I watched it - dozing off and on - until dawn. Then I had enough light and plenty of smoke to plot and report that fire. Our crew got in and extinguished the fire, then they led him three miles to his intended camp (with his buddies). Ching-ching! Overtime! Maybe 17.5 hours today!
I love his pictures and I think he's for real.I noticed in his photos we have another DUmmie who supports his union brothers in Detroit by owning a truck made by Toyota.
From what I can gather he lives in SC and travels to Oregon every year to work at a fire lookout. He has SC Viet Nam veteran tags on the truck and does look to be in his later 60's. Maybe he does it for the solitude or loves the high desert.
Nice pictures from the lookout (http://journals.democraticunderground.com/DemoTex)
Ching-ching! Overtime! Maybe 17.5 hours today!
I have a 50 cal blackpowder rifle. There is also the Desert Eagle 50 cal pistol. Most likely it was one of these.
DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sat Jul-02-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I just used anti-aircraft as an example (because of my intimate experience with 12.7mm)
Had the 12.7mm (50-cal) that ripped through my wing in 1970 exploded, as it was designed to do, I probably would not be posting here tonight. I was a lucky-ducky.
DemoTex (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-03-11 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. Exactly right. Thanks.
I have no idea what weapon fired this 50-cal round, but I do know that the projectile had incendiary characteristics. The USFS fire investigators know that, too. Flint and steel generated sparks do not start a fire as quickly as this one started.
I'm glad you equated the 50-cal to the 12.7mm. That was mt point with the anti-aircraft discussion. If I remember correctly, the 12.7 is a mm or two larger than our 50-cal, so that they can use ammo captured from us but we can't use their ammo. Is that correct?
Does anyone still believe this DUmbass was ever in the military?I think Click and Clack used that as a puzzler on Car Talk a couple weeks ago. :rofl:
Does anyone still believe this DUmbass was ever in the military?
I love his pictures and I think he's for real.
From what I can gather he lives in SC and travels to Oregon every year to work at a fire lookout. He has SC Viet Nam veteran tags on the truck and does look to be in his later 60's. Maybe he does it for the solitude or loves the high desert.
Nice pictures from the lookout (http://journals.democraticunderground.com/DemoTex)
DemoTex (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-03-11 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. I'm very familiar with the "black powder" genre.
Edited on Sun Jul-03-11 11:45 PM by DemoTex
But I did not try to tell you much about the weapon, did I? Go back and read my post. I told you what the fire investigator found (and/or, what the perps admitted to). But I concentrated on the round size and the damage the round did. Period.
I used the AA example as illustrative. Personal experience, that I doubt you have. I never said what type of gun this was.
Argue with that. WTF does it matter, other that the FACT that an incendiary round (50-cal by their admission) caused this incredibly destructive, dangerous, and expensive fire?
What the hell is your beef?
Now DUmmy DemoTex is getting touchy. Just like TiTtyboy would do whenever doubt was cast on one of his fantastical tales.
DemoTex is the second most highly decorated enlisted carrier pilot of the Viet Nam era.
Now DUmmy DemoTex is getting touchy. Just like TiTtyboy would do whenever doubt was cast on one of his fantastical tales.
DemoTex is the second most highly decorated enlisted carrier pilot of the Viet Nam era. He flew a specially-equipped B-52 off the Kitty Hawk, and on one memorable mission dropped a nuclear weapon on Haiphong Harbor.
Unfortunately, due to a drunken long-haired SEAL river boat pilot who was doing TDY on board the Kitty Hawk as a fill-in nuclear weapons guard, a saboteur damaged the bomb trigger, and it failed to detonate.
It was that incident, along with elevator and hangar difficulties, that caused the Navy to terminate the program to adapt B-52 bombers for carrier launch and recovery. DUmmy DemoTex was among the few pilots with enough skill to bring the huge bomber safely aboard a carrier, owing to its enormous wingspan, which was nearly 60 feet wider than the carrier itself.
Leaving the pilot ranks, DUmmy DemoTex became the top enlisted small arms weapons advisor to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The last ten years of his career were spent developing explosive projectiles for the M-16. He is still regarded as the father of the .22 cal. high-explosive anti-tank round, the mother of which is, of course, nadin.
Really. Seriously.
<<<It's really not so surprising that he is ignorant about weapons. As an Army pilot, he may have qualified once with an M-14 or M-16, and carried a .38 revolver (or less likely a .45 pistol) after that. He may have had absolutely no experience with firearms before or after his Army service. I served with many pilots who had not even held an M-16 in 10 years or more, and were just as ignorant about firearms as DemoTex.>>>He was not Army, if he purports to have been with P2's. That's Navy.
He was not Army, if he purports to have been with P2's. That's Navy.
Yes, both 14 and 16. The .45 was standard issue, not the .38.
The .45 was often worn placed between the legs while flying, to protect the family jewels.
I also carried at times the M1A1 TSMG, M3 (not he A1 varient), and AK.
The AK was traded for a .38 which I carried along with the .45.
He may have been there, but, I suspect as a crew member, not a peter pilot.
BTW, this is what a 12.7 can do to a Huey.
First thing first: Welcome home, Brother, and happy Independence Day.Didn't know that. I was way up north.
With respect, I disagree with you on a couple of points.
The Army Security Agency had at least one company of P2s in Vietnam for ELINT. The 1st RRC (AVN), 224th AVN BN was based at Cam Rahn Bay from June 1967 until it cased its guidon in April 1972. The Air Force and CIA also had Neptunes, with one mission being the dropping of ASW sonobouys along the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
The picture on the DUmmie's page shows an Army officer (either 1LT or warrant officer, hard to tell which) standing beside the portside propeller of a P2 Neptune.
I will defer to your experience on the .38 vs .45. I was a flight medic from 1980-1986 and my issued weapon was an old (but very serviceable) Smith and Wesson Model 10 .38. When I transferred to a medical NCO slot in an Air Cav squadron in 1986, my weapon was a .45.
Just one word about the picture: Shit.
Gave it some thought.
I think the guy is legit.
He's just ignorant of firearms, and failed to tell the whole truth.
Didn't know that. I was way up north.
Yes, I believe I did. :lmao: It was noisy, btw.
I'll go try and find that one pic in his page.
(edit)
Unable to find pic.
DummyTex's picture page (http://journals.democraticunderground.com/?az=archives&j=135&page=6)Got it, BD.
Vietnam pics about 1/4 of the way down.
Does anyone still believe this DUmbass was ever in the military?
Got it, BD.
Quality sucks.
Guy is most likely an LT.
I appreciate the time you took to find that.
Earns a H5.
Xnks, bud.
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A man who had waited in line at a book-signing in Kansas City for Academy Award-winning actress Jane Fonda spit tobacco juice in her face Tuesday night.
The suspect, Vietnam veteran Michael A. Smith, 54, Smith said that his actions were planned and he has no regrets. He said he's a Vietnam veteran still angry at Fonda for her trip to Hanoi in 1972.
"She's a traitor, and she cost the lives of a lot of good men," Smith, who was 19 when he was sent to fight in Vietnam, told KMBC-TV in Kansas City. "She didn't do anything to the government -- she slapped us in the face."
In 1972, Fonda, who actively opposed the Vietnam War, was photographed sitting in a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft tank. About her involvement in the Vietnam War, Fonda has publicly apologized for the photo. She has called it an incredible lapse in judgment.
During her Tuesday night visit, Fonda talked to the crowd about her trip to North Vietnam.
I'm not a Vietnam veteran, but I'll take a wild-assed guess and say that if there was any small arms used against American aircraft it would START at the ZPU Quad 14.5MM Russian gun, then work up to 20MM, 37MM, and so on up to 85 and 100MM AA rounds before you get into the SAM-2 missiles.
Enlisted guys flew in the Army in Vietnam. I don't see officer rank on his uniform, but it is really not a clear picture.As gunners, crew chiefs, load-masters, etc. Not as drivers.
So when Years later McCain ran for president I had not forgotten his action to save his own skin. I believe he also sold out our youth, survived only by his family's influence and cooperating above and beyond what his captors expected.
When it came to the Presidential run, I was very scared of McCain, here was a man I believed was not to be trusted----The fact he dumped a wife who spent a few years trying to get him out of that POW camp, to marry a woman with more money and influence then his wife, this man was just no damn good to my mind.
Well, vesta, just for my $.02, despite all the half-witted, Camelot-fixated stupid bullshit McCain worked himself into later in the Senate, resulting in him being only the 'Less-horrible' choice in 2008, the time he spent as a POW was about as honorably and bravely done as anyone could ask, and damned few could match. Your perspective on this one just seems kinda weird.