The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Terrorism In the US and Around the World => Topic started by: TheSarge on November 12, 2009, 11:51:29 AM
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(http://www.foxnews.com/images/583716/5_61_fort_hood_map.jpg)
DEVELOPING: Army psychiatrist Major Nidal Hasan will be charged with 13 counts of premeditated murder in last week's Fort Hood mass shootings, a military source told Fox News Thursday.
Hasan, 39, is suspected of killing 13 of his comrades Nov. 5 when he opened fire at a soldier processing center at the Army base in Killeen, Texas.
The American-born military psychiatrist survived the rampage and is being guarded at a hospital in San Antonio. He has been talking to investigators.
Hasan is accused of firing about 100 rounds at unsuspecting fellow soldiers filling out deployment paperwork before civilian police officers shot him and stopped the attack.
The massacre killed 13 people and left about 30 others wounded. It has been classified as the worst mass shooting on an American military base.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,574551,00.html
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I'm listening to the news briefing right now. My question is: why is he NOT being charged with 30 counts of attempted murder, in addition to the pre-meditated murder charges ?? What about the unborn fetus that was killed??
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I'm listening to the news briefing right now. My question is: why is he NOT being charged with 30 counts of attempted murder, in addition to the pre-meditated murder charges ?? What about the unborn fetus that was killed??
I was wondering why it wasn't 14 counts of murder also.
Does it have to do with Texas law?
I don't think all states rule the same on the unborn. I think some rule that it has to be viable(which is usually around 28 weeks) before it is counted as a murder.
And why wouldn't it be 30+ counted of attempted pre-meditated murder?
If there is malice a forethought.....wouldn't everyone -both those murdered and those attempted....be pre-meditated?
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I'm listening to the news briefing right now. My question is: why is he NOT being charged with 30 counts of attempted murder, in addition to the pre-meditated murder charges ?? What about the unborn fetus that was killed??
They often don't bother with lesser charges when there are major charges.
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I was wondering why it wasn't 14 counts of murder also.
Does it have to do with Texas law?
I don't think all states rule the same on the unborn. I think some rule that it has to be viable(which is usually around 28 weeks) before it is counted as a murder.
And why wouldn't it be 30+ counted of attempted pre-meditated murder?
If there is malice a forethought.....wouldn't everyone -both those murdered and those attempted....be pre-meditated?
I'm no attorney, but I think that since the atrocities occurred on federal land, to wit a military installation, federal law applies. Texas law would not.
I would think they can always add to the list of charges, but removing those charges would be more problematical from both a legal and political perspective.
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I'm no attorney, but I think that since the atrocities occurred on federal land, to wit a military installation, federal law applies. Texas law would not.
I would think they can always add to the list of charges, but removing those charges would be more problematical from both a legal and political perspective.
Yup...it happened on a Federal Installation...feds trump state on this one.
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I'm no attorney, but I think that since the atrocities occurred on federal land, to wit a military installation, federal law applies. Texas law would not.
I would think they can always add to the list of charges, but removing those charges would be more problematical from both a legal and political perspective.
According to what I heard some discussing yesterday on Fox....it could go with several different "laws".
Military ...obviously because it was on a military installation.
Federal....because the military is part of the federal government.
Texas...because it occured on Texas land.
The commentators said that because the military hadn't had a death penalty execution since 1960-something....they may not be the best equipped for trying a death penalty case, because it was doubtful that there were any JAG lawyers with any death penalty trial experience, unless they had been prosecuters before entering the military.
They said Federal may work....but that because Texas had a good track record with death penalty cases and follow through with execution....that Texas prosecuters may be the best option.
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Why not treason?
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According to what I heard some discussing yesterday on Fox....it could go with several different "laws".
Military ...obviously because it was on a military installation.
Federal....because the military is part of the federal government.
Texas...because it occured on Texas land.
The commentators said that because the military hadn't had a death penalty execution since 1960-something....they may not be the best equipped for trying a death penalty case, because it was doubtful that there were any JAG lawyers with any death penalty trial experience, unless they had been prosecuters before entering the military.
They said Federal may work....but that because Texas had a good track record with death penalty cases and follow through with execution....that Texas prosecuters may be the best option.
Well, arrangements and deals are made all the time. Should the feds determine that their best chance of slippin' ol' Hasan the ol' needle would be to prosecute a la Texas, then they'll make those arrangements.
The encouraging thing about the Fox report is that it seems that the prosecution is doing its very best to make sure this POS scum draws his last breath in the very near future.
It didn't take long to rid the planet of Timothy McVeigh. A crime as heinous as this one deserves the same kind of attention-to-detail with an eye on the clock.
Every minute that Hasan breathes is an insult to those in uniform.
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I had heard earlier in the week, that doctors were concerned that some of the severely injured may not survive.
That could also be why they aren't filing on the injured yet....
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You know what I don't get? Why would anyone represent him? I mean, isn't his atty ex-JAG? I thought I heard that somewhere. I dunno.
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Why not treason?
Because the precedent, apparently, follows:
In Ex Parte Bollman (1807), the Supreme Court ruled that "there must be an actual assembling of men, for the treasonable purpose, to constitute a levying of war".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_Parte_Bollman
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Because the precedent, apparently, follows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_Parte_Bollman
I wonder if his repeated contacts with known and wanted jihadists would count?
Does internet traffic or other means of correspond constitute "an actual assembling of men"? IOW: does technology bring with it technicalities?
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I wonder if his repeated contacts with known and wanted jihadists would count?
Does internet traffic or other means of correspond constitute "an actual assembling of men"? IOW: does technology bring with it technicalities?
It raises that question, certainly. We don't know all the evidence they have, of course, but if they have actual correspondence wherein he discusses his murderous plans, any charges that don't include treason would be an insult to the country and Constitution, in my opinion.
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You know what I don't get? Why would anyone represent him? I mean, isn't his atty ex-JAG? I thought I heard that somewhere. I dunno.
Because he is entitled to representation...."if he can not afford legal representation....one shall be appointed for him".....just like any other animal.
One of the things I have been wondering....if anyone has seen the clips of his apartment....this guy was making $100,000+ a year. Medical care provided, wore uniforms, housing allowance?....where was all his money going?
His apartment was just a one or two br, pretty sparsely decorated, he wasn't supporting his parents as they are dead....and he only has a brother or two.
Fox just announced before going to GW's speech in Dallas.....that investigators are looking into his banking. Appears some has been going to Pakistan.
Yeah....right...this guy is not a terrorist.... :bs:
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It didn't take long to rid the planet of Timothy McVeigh. A crime as heinous as this one deserves the same kind of attention-to-detail with an eye on the clock.
Unfortunately McVeigh instructed his lawyers to forgo his appeals.......or he would likely still be with us......
doc
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Unfortunately McVeigh instructed his lawyers to forgo his appeals.......or he would likely still be with us......
doc
I had forgotten that little detail, doc. Damn. Apart from getting some intel out of this POS, why couldn't this coward have turned the gun on himself and saved us the trouble of dirtying a needle?
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I had forgotten that little detail, doc. Damn. Apart from getting some intel out of this POS, why couldn't this coward have turned the gun on himself and saved us the trouble of dirtying a needle?
That may have been his plan ....but was taken down before he could perform his full intentions.
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I had forgotten that little detail, doc. Damn. Apart from getting some intel out of this POS, why couldn't this coward have turned the gun on himself and saved us the trouble of dirtying a needle?
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Hi,
Why not just sentence him to life and turn him loose in the recreation area at Leavenworth. He shot soldiers, my guess is he would likely slip on a banana peel or something and land right on his head......or maybe he would be in the weight room and a bar with 900# would accidentally fall on him. Somehow those things have a way of working themselves out.
One way or another he would have to be totally isolated and would cost the taxpayers a ton of money if he is allowed to live.
One thing I do not want to happen is for BO to wimp out out of fear of reprisal.
regards,
5412
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I hope they let him live and suffer for a long long time
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I hope they let him live and suffer for a long long time
Nope, sorry. This maniac needs to be put down like the scum-sucking dog he is.
He's stealing our Soldier's air. And he's consuming resources. The only thing I want my tax money to go to in dealing with this POS is to provide the materials for his execution, cremation, and to scatter his ashes in an undisclosed location.
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Nope, sorry. This maniac needs to be put down like the scum-sucking dog he is.
He's stealing our Soldier's air. And he's consuming resources. The only thing I want my tax money to go to in dealing with this POS is to provide the materials for his execution, cremation, and to scatter his ashes in an undisclosed location.
A-GREED.
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I think he needs to suffer for a while why give him what he wants I think he should be made to suffer a little here and a little here till he just kills himself.
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I think he needs to suffer for a while why give him what he wants I think he should be made to suffer a little here and a little here till he just kills himself.
While it's theoretically possible to kill oneself in prison, chances are he'd be on a death watch. And he'd be isolated from the general population.
All of those "special treatments" that he'd get just because he's the POS he is consumes resources. He's not worth it.
Like the vermin he is, he needs to be eradicated.
I just don't give a good ******* about his "suffering" or lack of it. I want him GONE and out of this world. He can diddle his virgins in the next life. Or not.
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The question about the lesser charges: After being on a trial this past spring, usually they are on the list of charges but as "secondary" charges. In the rape trial we had the choice of lesser and greater charges. We choose all the greater ones because of the stiffer penalties. It comes down to a matter of wether or not the penalty fits the act.
In this instance, it might be the same?
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Nope, sorry. This maniac needs to be put down like the scum-sucking dog he is.
He's stealing our Soldier's air. And he's consuming resources. The only thing I want my tax money to go to in dealing with this POS is to provide the materials for his execution, cremation, and to scatter his ashes in an undisclosed location.
I think the location should be widely publicized. Some feed lot on a hog farm.
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I think the location should be widely publicized. Some feed lot on a hog farm.
For real...eaten by their favorite animal....Wild Boars would do.
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I think the location should be widely publicized. Some feed lot on a hog farm.
I don't care where, so long as any interested party can go there to "pay their proper respects". :pisscontest:
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I don't care where, so long as any interested party can go there to "pay their proper respects". :pisscontest:
I know quite a few that would love to "water" his grave often :fuelfire:
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I know quite a few that would love to "water" his grave often :fuelfire:
I'm certainly one of 'em, but there are many many others who have higher priority than I do.
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I hope they let him live and suffer for a long long time
I hope they execute him quickly so they send him to hell faster. Then let him see how Great his God is.
Muslims worship the devil, they only figure that out after death.
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I hope they execute him quickly so they send him to hell faster. Then let him see how Great his God is.
Muslims worship the devil, they only figure that out after death.
Problem is they WANT to be executed...they want to die a martyrs death.
Why give them that "glory"?
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Problem is they WANT to be executed...they want to die a martyrs death.
Why give them that "glory"?
I see your point, but when they're in custody, have been convicted of premeditated murder, and are consuming the air same that their victims' families are paying taxes for, it isn't what THEY want.
It's what justice demands.
Swift and merciless execution is the only thing that they understand. That it happens to be what they profess to "want" is a mere coincidence.
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I see your point, but when they're in custody, have been convicted of premeditated murder, and are consuming the air same that their victims' families are paying taxes for, it isn't what THEY want.
No they want to die...in Islam they will be considered a martyr for the cause and be rewarded in the afterlife accordingly.
Not to mention if they are executed by the Infadels...they are recruiting poster material for al-Qaeda and the taliban.
Swift and merciless execution is the only thing that they understand. That it happens to be what they profess to "want" is a mere coincidence.
The ONLY way I'd agree to that is if they were tossed into a grave with a pig sharing the space with them.
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No they want to die...in Islam they will be considered a martyr for the cause and be rewarded in the afterlife accordingly.
Not to mention if they are executed by the Infadels...they are recruiting poster material for al-Qaeda and the taliban.
The ONLY way I'd agree to that is if they were tossed into a grave with a pig sharing the space with them.
Again, I understand your point, TRG. I understand THEY want to die and they become some kind of poster child for islamofascism when they get offed.
I maintain that kind of spin, while convenient and perhaps even applicable, should not play any kind of part in how we deal with these criminals. You know better than I do how they respond to strength - and allowing their criminals to rot in prison consuming resources does not slow al Quaida's recruitment efforts and that kind of approach, as far as I'm concerned, displays weakness.
My point is, these actions that they're taking are CRIMES. It isn't a legitimate war that they're fighting (though they think it is, just because some dogbreath imam signs some kind of freakin' fatwa, declaring some kind of bullshit "holy war").
Show me the evidence that holding these vermin in prison forever slows down AQ recruitment and I'll buy your argument.
But I'm completely in accord with you on the collective pig-in-the-grave thing. :cheersmate:
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My point is, these actions that they're taking are CRIMES. It isn't a legitimate war that they're fighting (though they think it is, just because some dogbreath imam signs some kind of freakin' fatwa, declaring some kind of bullshit "holy war").
Then we shouldn't be doing these show trials at all IMHO. It's not going to be the trial of KSL or al-Binshib...it's going to be a show trial against Bush...Rummy...Cheney and the whole WoT with a healthy dose of Trufer goodness tossed in for fun.
Show me the evidence that holding these vermin in prison forever slows down AQ recruitment and I'll buy your argument.
We have the legal precedent to hold them until the WoT is over.
But I'm completely in accord with you on the collective pig-in-the-grave thing. :cheersmate:
It worked for General Pershing.
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Trying Hasan via the UCMJ is a "show trial"?
I'm not seeing it that way at all.
(And the MSM still hasn't woken up to the fact that Hasan is just another islamofascist terrorist.)
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Trying Hasan via the UCMJ is a "show trial"?
I'm not seeing it that way at all.
I think you're misunderstanding me. Using the civilian courts...is the show trial. What's about to happen in NYC in 45 days is going to be a circus and it's a gross miscalculation by this administration if they think it's going to make Americans like them more.
Which is exactly why I think they are doing this now.
I'd rather the terrorists be adjudicated via UCMJ.
(And the MSM still hasn't woken up to the fact that Hasan is just another islamofascist terrorist.)
The NYT today is praising Holder's decision as a way to right the wrong's of the Bush Administration".
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I think you're misunderstanding me. Using the civilian courts...is the show trial. What's about to happen in NYC in 45 days is going to be a circus and it's a gross miscalculation by this administration if they think it's going to make Americans like them more.
Which is exactly why I think they are doing this now.
I'd rather the terrorists be adjudicated via UCMJ.
The NYT today is praising Holder's decision as a way to right the wrong's of the Bush Administration".
Gotcha on the civvie trials - a complete stupid exercise by the moronic administration. Importing those criminals out of GITMO up to the US putting them through that process legitimizes what the terrorists are doing - unacceptable by any standard.
I'm not sure the terrorists can be adjudicated via UCMJ, however. As enemy combatants, they're not subject to it - only we are.
Holder is a ****ing idiot. Period.
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I'm not sure the terrorists can be adjudicated via UCMJ, however. As enemy combatants, they're not subject to it - only we are.
FDR set the precedent with the trials of 8 NAZI saboteurs early in WW II.
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FDR set the precedent with the trials of 8 NAZI saboteurs early in WW II.
Precedents are one thing, but we were at war with Germany -- a sovereign nation -- at that time. Trying terrorists, whether Taliban or al Qaida or just your garden-variety homespun type via UCMJ legitimizes their status and grants them the same sort of "recognition", seems to me.
It would be interesting to see how they proceed, but odds are the LZ administration is going to legitimize 'em even more by trying them in civilian courts.
He just doesn't get it. :mental:
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No they want to die...in Islam they will be considered a martyr for the cause and be rewarded in the afterlife accordingly.
Not to mention if they are executed by the Infadels...they are recruiting poster material for al-Qaeda and the taliban.
The ONLY way I'd agree to that is if they were tossed into a grave with a pig sharing the space with them.
Absolutely. Make it so dying is so heinous to them that they think twice-500 times before doing anything to get punished. It used to be called crime deterrence didn't it? Well this punishment would fit the crime and be a fitting deterrent. You also wouldn't need to waste a whole pig. A nice strip of bacon or a juicy rib would do the job. :-)
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If there has to be a trial....at least make it a woman judge and prosecuter.... :evillaugh:
Since he's already been shot up and paralyzed by a woman....might as well be women who conduct the trial.
I'm sure there has to be some shame in that since he was looking for a "traditional wife".... :uhsure:
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If there has to be a trial....at least make it a woman judge and prosecuter.... :evillaugh:
Since he's already been shot up and paralyzed by a woman....might as well be women who conduct the trial.
I'm sure there has to be some shame in that since he was looking for a "traditional wife".... :uhsure:
Works for me! (Can she have bacon on her breath when she reads off the sentence?)
:-)
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Works for me! (Can she have bacon on her breath when she reads off the sentence?)
:-)
+1