Obama Retreats From Goal of Cap-Trade Bill

[dandi]

By ELIZABETH WILLIAMSON

NASHUA, N.H.—President Barack Obama said for the first time Tuesday that legislation that would require industries to pay for emissions of greenhouse gases may need to be separated from a more popular "green jobs" bill in the Senate, a maneuver that could kill what once had been one of the administration's top policy priorities.

Answering a participant in a town-hall meeting in Nashua who asked about green jobs—those connected to renewable energy—and so-called cap-and-trade legislation, Mr. Obama said, "The only thing I would say about it is this: We may be able to separate these things out. And it's possible that that's where the Senate ends up."

Until now, the Obama administration has refused to entertain in public the idea that lawmakers might have to split up the climate bill. The shift by the president is another sign that the White House is rethinking strategy on big first-year agenda items such as health care and climate legislation, after public dissatisfaction with its focus on those issues helped cost Democrats their filibuster-proof hold on the Senate last month.

snip

Mr. Obama's comments on Tuesday came amid new signs of resistance by some fellow Democrats to his administration's efforts to combat climate change.

On Tuesday, two senior House Democrats—Reps. Ike Skelton of Missouri, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, and Collin Peterson of Minnesota, chairman of the House Agriculture Committee—introduced legislation to prohibit the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse-gas emissions under the Clean Air Act. In a written statement, Mr. Skelton called for setting aside legislation already passed by the House to cap greenhouse-gas emissions, and instead passing "scaled-back energy legislation" that could command greater support in both parties.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704022804575041632860721438.html



Obama, in typical fashion, catches heat and punts this job killer to his good friend, weasel boy Reid. 

Hey, Harry, how many times are you going to let this rookie vote "present" while you get shat upon?  Your ass is toast in Nevada, you're done in the Senate, when are you going to wise up? 

Yeah, I know the answer, just thought I would ask anyway.   

[JohnnyReb]

It should be called the "CAP DAT TRADE" bill.

[DumbAss Tanker]

The green jobs are still a scam; something that doesn't make sound economic sense on its own, but with enough Government subsidies and credits added to artificially move the break-even point. 

[thundley4]

The green jobs are still a scam; something that doesn't make sound economic sense on its own, but with enough Government subsidies and credits added to artificially move the break-even point. 

Kind of like ethanol subsidies.

[Chris_]

Kind of like ethanol subsidies.

And even with subsidies, it is still not competitive with gasoline in actual usage..........

doc

[thundley4]

And even with subsidies, it is still not competitive with gasoline in actual usage..........

doc

Unfortunately, one of the biggest customers for the company I work for is also one of the big producers of ethanol.

[Chris_]

Unfortunately, one of the biggest customers for the company I work for is also one of the big producers of ethanol.

Most of the ethanol plants around here have gone belly-up. and the demand remains very low.......and our state is a major corn producer......it just never made much sense.......kinda like "Cap & Trade".....

doc

[thundley4]

Most of the ethanol plants around here have gone belly-up. and the demand remains very low.......and our state is a major corn producer......it just never made much sense.......kinda like "Cap & Trade".....

doc

Maybe you've heard of this ethanol producer from my area, ADM, also known as Archer Daniels Midland?  Ethanol isn't their main product, but they do produce a lot of it.

[Chris_]

Maybe you've heard of this ethanol producer from my area, ADM, also known as Archer Daniels Midland?  Ethanol isn't their main product, but they do produce a lot of it.

Yep....they are one of the largest in agribusiness........didn't they start out in the oil business?

doc

[thundley4]

Yep....they are one of the largest in agribusiness........didn't they start out in the oil business?

doc

Not that I'm aware of.  I've always heard that they started out as a grain milling company.

[5412]

The green jobs are still a scam; something that doesn't make sound economic sense on its own, but with enough Government subsidies and credits added to artificially move the break-even point. 

Hi,

If one reads the preamble or premise to the Cap and Trade scheme, they want to cut down on emissions and reduce their dependence on fossil fuels in the process.  They refuse to even consider nuclear which is the obvious and workable solution.  Green jobs is purely bogus, more government control.

Cap and tax is nothing more than taxing those who have achieved things and taking their money, funneling it through Al Gore to whomever they want, with a good bit of it ending up in Swiss banks.  It is as Van Jones said, the easiest way to confiscate and redistribute wealth.

regards,
5412

[thundley4]

Hi,

If one reads the preamble or premise to the Cap and Trade scheme, they want to cut down on emissions and reduce their dependence on fossil fuels in the process.  They refuse to even consider nuclear which is the obvious and workable solution.  Green jobs is purely bogus, more government control.

Cap and tax is nothing more than taxing those who have achieved things and taking their money, funneling it through Al Gore to whomever they want, with a good bit of it ending up in Swiss banks.  It is as Van Jones said, the easiest way to confiscate and redistribute wealth.

regards,
5412

Al Gore went from a net worth of a couple of million in 2000 to over a hundred million, now.

[5412]

Al Gore went from a net worth of a couple of million in 2000 to over a hundred million, now.

Hi,

According to Limbaugh, Gore would have been the first cap and tax billionaire.

May his pipes freeze and his faucet drip. . . . . .

regards,
5412

[Randy]

Ummmmm has anyone looked at the signs on gas pumps lately? There are only 2 gas stations in my county here that sell gas without ethanol added. Somehow, someway it's been slipped into the formula to the point pure gas is almost non-existent anymore.

[5412]

Ummmmm has anyone looked at the signs on gas pumps lately? There are only 2 gas stations in my county here that sell gas without ethanol added. Somehow, someway it's been slipped into the formula to the point pure gas is almost non-existent anymore.

Hi,

Yes sir, it seems that ethanol seems to now be nationwide.  Perhaps it may also have something to do with the double digit inflationary prices on certain types of food that are derivitaves of corn.  My wife has and interest in a family farm that has been in the family for 100 years.  Corn crop has done real well thank you. 

BTW, the whole concept of ethanol is flawed.  When they take the poorer gas mileage as a result of ethanol as compared to non-ethanol fuel, it does as much or more in CO2 emmisions that the regular fuel does.  In other words, it does nothing for the environment other than to extend the use of fossil fuels for a few more years.

regards,
5412

[JohnnyReb]

Hi,

Yes sir, it seems that ethanol seems to now be nationwide.  Perhaps it may also have something to do with the double digit inflationary prices on certain types of food that are derivitaves of corn.  My wife has and interest in a family farm that has been in the family for 100 years.  Corn crop has done real well thank you. 

BTW, the whole concept of ethanol is flawed.  When they take the poorer gas mileage as a result of ethanol as compared to non-ethanol fuel, it does as much or more in CO2 emmisions that the regular fuel does.  In other words, it does nothing for the environment other than to extend the use of fossil fuels for a few more years.

regards,
5412

Someone told my wife that the "mixed gas" is better for her car and gas mileage.... I've tried to set her straight but it's no use.... ....as long as she pays for her own gas and doesn't burn the bisquits, I'll refrain from arguing with her.

Over time folks will have problems with deterioration of the rubber components in their fuel systems but they never connect it to the alcohol in the gas they use... nope, never could be that.

I do not buy that mixed trash for my lawnmower, weedeater or chainsaw....it just causes to much trouble.

[Chris]

Ethanol (E85) has an octane rating between 97-99; pure ethanol has an octane rating of 103.  It could return better gas mileage in a higher-compression (10:1) engine, but most cars are designed to run on regular pump gas (about 8.5:1), so you don't really see any change in your average vehicle.

The headwork I'm planning on my Datsun would raise the compression above 10:1.  I would either have to buy 93 octane or E85 to prevent pinging.

[Doc]

Ethanol (E85) has an octane rating between 97-99; pure ethanol has an octane rating of 103.  It could return better gas mileage in a higher-compression (10:1) engine, but most cars are designed to run on regular pump gas (about 8.5:1), so you don't really see any change in your average vehicle.

The headwork I'm planning on my Datsun would raise the compression above 10:1.  I would either have to buy 93 octane or E85 to prevent pinging.

Actually no.......I have a vehicle that is designed to run on E85, and have run calibrated tests on its performance with straight gasoline (87 aro), 10% ethanol mix gasoline (89 aro), and E85 (96 aro), this particular engine (compression ratio 9.5/1) will yield slightly better mileage and overal performance with the 10% mix than it will on straight gasoline, presumably due to the elevated octane rating.........however, running it on E85 results in a consistant 35% reduction in mileage, and reduced performance, even with the increased octane, due to the considerably lower "specifis heat" content of ethanol, when compared to gasoline.  Increasing "octane rating" does nothing more than increase the anti-preignition performance of the fuel, with a slight retardation of flame front velocity........without increasing the specific heat of the fuel, and volumetric efficiency of the engine's basic design, increasing octane does little to improve performance.

With this in mind, in order for the use of E85 to make any economic sense for the average motorist, its price at the pump needs to be 35-40% LESS than straight gasoline, which it is not.......even with all of the subsidies, E85 (at least around here), is priced at about 10-15% less than straight gasoline.......which.......unless you are some kind of "save the planet" freak, simply makes its use too expensive.

doc

[thundley4]

Most of the stations here sell an ethanol blend and regular, but I haven't seen "premium" in quite a while.  The ethanol blend is cheaper, but I still go for the regular. I've heard the same thing about ethanol eating plastic and rubber components, so I won't even use it in the lawn mowers.