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Author Topic: ENVIRONMENTALISM: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales  (Read 8137 times)

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Offline Wineslob

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2009, 09:56:43 AM »
Now, let me get this straight.............I need to double my electrical usage to save the planet......... :hammer:
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2009, 03:36:23 PM »
Quote from: Wineslob on June 08, 2009, 09:56:43 AM
Now, let me get this straight.............I need to double my electrical usage to save the planet......... :hammer:

Not only double it but double it when you get home from work - in other words peak electrical usage times -can you say Brown Out.
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2009, 09:48:34 PM »
Toyota loses money on every Pirus sold. Now, can you imagine a 31 year old car czar running GM who know nothing about the business? These greenie cars the public will not buy on a major scale will be a complete failure from a profitability standpoint. They will not be able to give them suckers away.
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2009, 10:01:59 PM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on June 08, 2009, 09:48:34 PM
Toyota loses money on every Pirus sold. Now, can you imagine a 31 year old car czar running GM who know nothing about the business? These greenie cars the public will not buy on a major scale will be a complete failure from a profitability standpoint. They will not be able to give them suckers away.


That's what tax hikes are for...
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 09:51:52 AM »
Quote from: RightCoast on June 08, 2009, 03:36:23 PM
Not only double it but double it when you get home from work - in other words peak electrical usage times -can you say Brown Out.

We already have times when PG&E wants us to "watch" our usage. This from a state that has a VAST ammount of hydro power, oh, wait, the Hollywierd crowd dosen't want us to USE the water in certain lakes because they woulden't be able to use their private docks........ :thatsright:
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2009, 01:34:23 PM »
What can't you run a small 2 or 4 cylinder engine that powers a generator that then sends power to electric motors in a car? I wonder what kind of gas mileage that would give you?
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2009, 01:39:18 PM »
Quote from: ROCKURWORLD on June 10, 2009, 01:34:23 PM
What can't you run a small 2 or 4 cylinder engine that powers a generator that then sends power to electric motors in a car? I wonder what kind of gas mileage that would give you?

It would require a pretty large generator to provide the electricity needed , which would add to the already large weight of the drive motor(s).  I'm sure that this has already been tried and discarded as unfeasible.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2009, 01:43:49 PM »
I looked up the specs for a Honda generator to power a standard 144v DC motor... according to Honda, it will run eight hours on 1.5 gallons of gasoline.  The Chevy Volt is similar to that setup, while the Prius runs the gas and electric motors to turn the drive wheels.

I see the new Prius model finally got around to adding a solar cell to the roof to run the electric AC compressor.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2009, 04:15:12 PM »
Quote from: ROCKURWORLD on June 10, 2009, 01:34:23 PM
What can't you run a small 2 or 4 cylinder engine that powers a generator that then sends power to electric motors in a car? I wonder what kind of gas mileage that would give you?


Anytime you use one consumable resource to create another, you have a lose/lose situation. Think of it this way, why not use the gas engine to power the car in the first place?
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2009, 05:23:11 PM »
Quote from: Wineslob on June 10, 2009, 04:15:12 PM

Anytime you use one consumable resource to create another, you have a lose/lose situation. Think of it this way, why not use the gas engine to power the car in the first place?

That makes too much sense for the dunces in DC and the Env. kooks. We should take the nuts that came up with subsidizing Ethanol out and replace them.
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2009, 11:51:09 AM »
Quote from: Chris on June 10, 2009, 01:43:49 PM
I see the new Prius model finally got around to adding a solar cell to the roof to run the electric AC compressor.

Actually the solar cells don't produce anywhere near enough power to run the A/C compressor........they only run the FAN that circulates the cool air inside the cabin.  I suspect that it is an expensive option that only makes the owners "feel good" about themselves, while seperating them from some more of their cash..........which is really what the hybreds are all about.

Unless all you do is stop and go city driving, with absolutely no highway runs of any distance, owning a hybred vehicle is of no advantage from the point of consumed fuel economy........just an expensive toy that has limited practical application, and that appears to have reached market saturation, judging from the build-up of dealer inventory, and the manufacturers advertising expenditures.......

Proving once again that fortunately.......there is only a limited number of hippy environmental weenies.........

doc
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2009, 08:49:53 PM »
Car purist would not have one of those electric cars. Part of driving pleasure is revving the rpms up so you can hear the roar of the engine.

At auto auctions like B.J., I see many middle and old aged farts buying muscle cars of the 70's and 80's so I doubt that many rich hippies have that much interest in electric cars. If the mfg. and the government did not subsidize them they would go under. 
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Offline Chris_

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2009, 12:10:20 PM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on June 11, 2009, 08:49:53 PM
Car purist would not have one of those electric cars. Part of driving pleasure is revving the rpms up so you can hear the roar of the engine.

At auto auctions like B.J., I see many middle and old aged farts buying muscle cars

Well......I would have to agree.......as an "old fart"  my wife and I just purchased an "almost new" Jeep Grand Cherokee with a hemi V-8........it tweaks my nostalga a bit to drive a 5000 pound 4-wheel drive SUV that can manage 0 to 60 in about 5.5 seconds, and a standing quarter mile in 14.9.......it will eat Prious's for breakfast on the interstate....and if driven at 70 mph on cruise control, will average 21.1 mpg.....

doc
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2009, 11:20:03 PM »
Quote from: TVDOC on June 12, 2009, 12:10:20 PM
Well......I would have to agree.......as an "old fart"  my wife and I just purchased an "almost new" Jeep Grand Cherokee with a hemi V-8........it tweaks my nostalga a bit to drive a 5000 pound 4-wheel drive SUV that can manage 0 to 60 in about 5.5 seconds, and a standing quarter mile in 14.9.......it will eat Prious's for breakfast on the interstate....and if driven at 70 mph on cruise control, will average 21.1 mpg.....

doc

I have driven/ridden hundreds of miles on an electric golf cart. Nothing fun about driving a piece of crap like that. I just bought a new Nissan 350z sports car and in the next year or two I will buy a used corvette with T-tops. The friggin idiot in the W.H. is going to kill or make it so expensive to buy a high performance vehicle in the upcoming years.   
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Offline DumbAss Tanker

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2009, 02:40:27 PM »
Without a quantum leap in battery technology, making them about two orders of magnitude more efficient for the weight and without making them out of something even more toxic than they use already, the electric car is a dead end for anything but short-distance urban driving.  Fuel cells, hybrid technologies (which would require only one order of magnitude battery improvements to be worth it), and hydrogen (but produced by nuke or hydro plant electrolysis instead of cracking hydrocarbons for it like we do now) are all far more promising.
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Offline AllosaursRus

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2009, 08:34:06 PM »
I just bought a used Crown Vic Police Interceptor. Came from a guy I know that goes down to AZ and buys them from sherrif Joseph M. Arpaio. It has 200,000 miles on it and runs like a new car! The oil still looks new! One of the finest cars I have ever owned! That guy knows how to take care of shit!

When the Feds and the Staters start buying these little electric soap box cars I'll think about it. Until then, screw the Big O!
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Offline Gratiot

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2009, 04:47:11 PM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on June 11, 2009, 08:49:53 PM
Car purist would not have one of those electric cars. Part of driving pleasure is revving the rpms up so you can hear the roar of the engine.

At auto auctions like B.J., I see many middle and old aged farts buying muscle cars of the 70's and 80's so I doubt that many rich hippies have that much interest in electric cars. If the mfg. and the government did not subsidize them they would go under.

What about Tesla Roadster or Model S even?  Or the electric race bikes which ran at the Isle of Man TT this year.  I think those torque curves and performance capabilities thrill even many car or racing purist.
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2009, 05:35:50 PM »
Quote from: Gratiot on July 19, 2009, 04:47:11 PM
What about Tesla Roadster or Model S even?  Or the electric race bikes which ran at the Isle of Man TT this year.  I think those torque curves and performance capabilities thrill even many car or racing purist.

The roadster sells for around 130 grand fully loaded and will only go around 200 miles with a full charge which takes 3.5 hours. It is fast but certainly not a touring car. I would take a Ferrari, Porsche or Vette over a Tesla.

The Model S sells for over 50 grand. My $35k Nissan 350Z matches it in performance and I can drive it to the beach which is 250 miles on a tank of gas and I do not have to worry about finding a place to charge it to make the trip back home. Also, I would be willing to bet some cash that my Z will beat the Model S on the roadcourse infield track at Texas World Speedway.

If you do not live in the kool-aid state, you are going to be SOL getting it repaired plus your selection of qualified mechanics will be far and few between. .

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Offline Chris_

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2009, 12:23:48 PM »
Quote from: Gratiot on July 19, 2009, 04:47:11 PM
I think those torque curves and performance capabilities thrill even many car or racing purist.

True, to the extent that an electric motor does not have many of the performance limitations of an internal combustion engine.......the problem is now, and will always be endurance.......the power has to come from somewhere, and as DAT mentioned earlier in this tread, unless battery capacity improves several orders of magnitude, electric vehicles will remain severely limited in practicality........

I have a friend that is into electric vehicle research and design, and when he and I have discussed the consept from an engineering perspective on several occasions I have stated the obvious design criteria......."when I can use my electric vehicle exactly the way that I presently use my gas powered one.......with no changes in my lifestyle or usage habits to do so, they will then, and only then, become practical"........until that point, they are still just overgrown golf carts.......

doc
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Offline Chris

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2009, 12:35:12 PM »
Winding Road has a comparison of the Tesla Roadster and the Lotus Elise the car is based on.  The electric car doesn't come out very well in the comparison.

http://wrmag.nextautos.com/issue/47/
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2009, 02:07:04 PM »
Quote from: Chris on July 21, 2009, 12:35:12 PM
Winding Road has a comparison of the Tesla Roadster and the Lotus Elise the car is based on.  The electric car doesn't come out very well in the comparison.

http://wrmag.nextautos.com/issue/47/

Shifting and hearing the roar of the engine at redline is half the fun of owning sportscar. What this article did not state were the track times. The Lotus would probably have a better time. The author did not want to rain on the mfg. parade. At half the price, I would choose the Lotus over the Tesla. These Eco nuts can go screw themselves. 
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Offline Chris

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2009, 02:12:02 PM »
Quote from: Lacarnut on July 21, 2009, 02:07:04 PM
Shifting and hearing the roar of the engine at redline is half the fun of owning sportscar. What this article did not state were the track times. The Lotus would probably have a better time. The author did not want to rain on the mfg. parade. At half the price, I would choose the Lotus over the Tesla. These Eco nuts can go screw themselves.

You can get a Mazda RX-8 for half the price of the Lotus.  Judging by the way Jeremy Clarkson was able to whip that thing around their test track, it looks like a blast.  But the Lotus is a convertible while the Mazda is not.
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2009, 03:27:40 PM »
Quote from: Chris on July 21, 2009, 02:12:02 PM
You can get a Mazda RX-8 for half the price of the Lotus.  Judging by the way Jeremy Clarkson was able to whip that thing around their test track, it looks like a blast.  But the Lotus is a convertible while the Mazda is not.

The lightweight 2000 pound Lotus will eat the Mazda alive on a roadcourse. That's all the Lotus is good for. It is cramped and does not make for a good daily driver car.
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2009, 03:32:44 PM »
Quote from: TVDOC on July 21, 2009, 12:23:48 PM

I have a friend that is into electric vehicle research and design, and when he and I have discussed the consept from an engineering perspective on several occasions I have stated the obvious design criteria......."when I can use my electric vehicle exactly the way that I presently use my gas powered one.......with no changes in my lifestyle or usage habits to do so, they will then, and only then, become practical"........until that point, they are still just overgrown golf carts.......

doc

Exactly right they're talking about THREE HOUR CHARGE TIMES.  3 FRICKIN' HOURS!?!?!?  Not to mention the people that actually have to provide the electricity to power these cars are terrified about what is going to happen when tens of thousands of electric cars all plug in at peak times, specifically 5-6PM as commuters get home from work.
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Offline Lacarnut

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Re: Challenges to grow with electric cars' sales
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2009, 03:59:10 PM »
Quote from: RightCoast on July 21, 2009, 03:32:44 PM
Exactly right they're talking about THREE HOUR CHARGE TIMES.  3 FRICKIN' HOURS!?!?!?  Not to mention the people that actually have to provide the electricity to power these cars are terrified about what is going to happen when tens of thousands of electric cars all plug in at peak times, specifically 5-6PM as commuters get home from work.

All Electric cars are going to go over about as big as a lead balloon. They will be much more expensive than a hybrid. The Telsa sells for over 50 grand and the roadster for around 120 grand. So there will be a piddling few of the Eco wienies driving them. Of course, you never can tell with all the screwballs out there.
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