No American soldier since 1812 has fought to preserve our right to protest or...

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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7446399

Kurt_and_Hunter  (1000+ posts)       Tue Oct-14-08 11:24 AM
Original message
No American soldier since 1812 has fought to preserve our right to protest or speak freely
 Advertisements [?]Edited on Tue Oct-14-08 11:41 AM by Kurt_and_Hunter
Thoughts while watching Palin's assault on her own supporters...

No foreign power has threatened our expressive rights or our voting rights.

Americans have fought for a variety of things, some good, some bad. And I honor those who served in the bad causes even more because such obedience is a tragic necessity in an effective military.

But nobody ever fought for our expressive rights. No foreign government has ever threatened our expressive rights! (Except in the worldview of prime paranoiacs who think North Vietnam was likely to conquer the US.)

War, on the other hand, has always resulted in suppression of our rights by our government.

The sedition acts of WWI, the internment of Japanese-Americans in WWII, McCarthyism connected to Korea, shooting protesters during Vietnam, the familiar abuses of the GWOT...

We are not unique in that, of course. All wars result in the censorship and suppression of the citizens of nations involved. Interestingly, militarists are demographically among the voting groups most hostile to expressive rights and keenest to eliminate them. Hmmmm....

(If people in South Korea or France want to thank American service men for their rights that's another matter.)


A Question for Sarah Palin: Which soldiers should we thank for our right to reproductive choice?

Raineyb (919 posts)        Tue Oct-14-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. I am never surprised by the irony of people who claim to be so patriotic
 who are so ignorant of the rights that they seem to be under the delusion is being protected by our soldiers. (All while suppressing the speech of those who oppose the conflict in question.)

Regards

Kurt_and_Hunter  (1000+ posts)       Tue Oct-14-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. They fought for my right to shut up about Iraq.

progressivebydesign (1000+ posts)        Tue Oct-14-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. thanks, I've been wanting to say that! We're fighting NOW for Iraqi's rights.. not ours.
 But the flag-wearin' crowd uses this circuitous logic that if we don't beat Iraq (who exactly are we fighting there?) then they'll come over here and take away our right to vote and speak. Or something like that.

nichomachus  (1000+ posts)      Tue Oct-14-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not only that
 our right to speak freely has been seriously infringed by George Bush and Dick Cheney -- and the military, active duty or veterans, have done absolutely nothing to help us. So, we really don't have anything to thank them for.

Clio the Leo  (1000+ posts)      Tue Oct-14-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. But I thank our men and women for helping make sure we have cheap gas!
 Edited on Tue Oct-14-08 11:52 AM by Clio the Leo
..... because gas is cheaper right?


Whoops.

This is a sticky wicket though because while you and I both know that those serving in Iraq are NOT literally defending OUR freedom, they WOULD in a heartbeat if asked.

It's the promise, not the actual effort, IMO.

 

DavidD  (1000+ posts)        Tue Oct-14-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. 1812 was an American war of aggression that failed
 It was not a defense of our rights.

smoogatz  (1000+ posts)        Tue Oct-14-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. I disagree. 
 Edited on Tue Oct-14-08 12:01 PM by smoogatz
After Pearl Harbor and the Japanese and German declarations of war against the U.S., our national survival was very much at stake in the outcome of the war. Had we been defeated in WWII (if Hitler had developed the nuclear bomb before we did, say), it's likely that we'd have a very different sort of government now.

Kurt_and_Hunter  (1000+ posts)       Tue Oct-14-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I disagree back
 Neither Germany or Japan ever had the slightest intention of conquering America and imposing a new political system here.
Had they developed the atomic bomb that would make for an interesting alternate history discussion, but it's more than sideways to the question. The heroes of the Manhattan project were scientists and bureaucrats

JHC...

Kurt_and_Hunter  (1000+ posts)       Tue Oct-14-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. That's some serious ignorance.
 Sorry to be rude, but no Manchurians or Koreans spoke Japanese. Poles speak Polish and East Germans spoke the same language as West Germans.

The fact that nations long held in the Russian empire didn't speak Russian was a key operational challenge for the Russian military in WW II.

When you throw out John Birch Society type bluster about how we would be speaking German you forfeit all credibility.

(There's an actual bumper-sticker that says, "If you can read this thank a teacher. If it's in English thank a soldier.)

 

[USA4ME]

They have no concept of the necessity of putting out a fire at your neighbor's house before it grows so large that it engulfs your house.

.

[TheSarge]

They have no concept of the necessity of putting out a fire at your neighbor's house before it grows so large that it engulfs your house.

.

They don't care.  They're more concerned with the fact their neighbor bought their house while they are merely renting theirs.

[USA4ME]

They don't care.  They're more concerned with the fact their neighbor bought their house while they are merely renting theirs.

The concept of libs being renters in America and not owners does explain a lot of their kooky policies.  I had thought of that before, but just not in terms as them being renters and not owners.  I like that comparison.  Makes it very clear as to why they are so self-centered and dependant.

.

[Red October]

American soldiers don't protect our rights, huh?  Hey bright ones, what do you suppoese America would be like without a military?

Don't hurt yourselves rubbing your brain-cells together trying to come up with a response.   

I can't stand these people who say trash like this.  They deserve to be banished from the country.  <-- and I have the freedom to say that thanks first and foremost to the military.  Period. 

[delilahmused]

I absolutely love these threads where they freely discuss their loss of free speech rights. YOu just can't make this stuff up. Which party was it that had "freedom cages" for protesters?

Cindie

[Red October]

I absolutely love these threads where they freely discuss their loss of free speech rights. YOu just can't make this stuff up. Which party was it that had "freedom cages" for protesters?

Cindie

No kidding!  It ranks right up there with "conservatives hate sex / have too many children."

[Vagabond]

I wondered if that bastitch ever heard of the British impressment of American sailors.  Hell, the British were more than happy to incite indian tribes all over the American West (of those days).  Either is cause enough to get a war going.

ALso, why do they never mention that more Germans and citizens of German decent would have been placed in internment camps except for the number of Japanese who renounced American citizenship?  Not to mention, some Italians were placed in camps as well.

Liberals gall me with what they are willing to leave out of history or just plain get wrong.

[Odin's Hand]

I wondered if that bastitch ever heard of the British impressment of American sailors.  Hell, the British were more than happy to incite indian tribes all over the American West (of those days).  Either is cause enough to get a war going.

ALso, why do they never mention that more Germans and citizens of German decent would have been placed in internment camps except for the number of Japanese who renounced American citizenship?  Not to mention, some Italians were placed in camps as well.

Liberals gall me with what they are willing to leave out of history or just plain get wrong.

Yep, the Blackfeet and the Teton Sioux were armed by the crown with the full knowledge that they would be the blockade to the Americans coming out of the east while the Hudson's Bay Company trapped and shot the shit out of the fur animals in the Upper Louisiana Purchase and the West in general. 

[Duke Nukum]

They don't care.  They're more concerned with the fact their neighbor bought their house while they are merely renting theirs.

Renters?!  I thought most of them were squatters.  Or living off of mom and dad.

[Airwolf]

OK Smart guys of DU if the Military hasn't protected the very rights you say you have (or intend to take from us BTW) then just who is the guardians of the Bill Of Rights and the laws of the land. It sure as shit isn't the Democratic Party or a Community Organizer.

[Rebel]

Hey, you ****ing idiots, EVERY soldier, sailor, airman, Marine, and Coastie has fought to protect ALL of your rights, REGARDLESS of their combat experience, in the fact that without them, we WOULD have been taken over. A strong military IS the reason we're still a free country.

Damn, why are you f'n idiots still breathing? I know, because it's an involuntary muscle action. If it weren't, you f'n idiots would have been dead by now.

These ****ing idiots are going to push us to a revolution. I hope they can shoot, but from what I've read, they abhor guns. Not good for those morons.

[Airwolf]

Hey, you ****ing idiots, EVERY soldier, sailor, airman, Marine, and Coastie has fought to protect ALL of your rights, REGARDLESS of their combat experience, in the fact that without them, we WOULD have been taken over. A strong military IS the reason we're still a free country.

Damn, why are you f'n idiots still breathing? I know, because it's an involuntary muscle action. If it weren't, you f'n idiots would have been dead by now.

These ****ing idiots are going to push us to a revolution. I hope they can shoot, but from what I've read, they abhor guns. Not good for those morons.

I'm finding it more and more likely to hope they do start something just so they can find out just what its going to take to get the kind of Government they want. I hope they got the  will and the moxie to pull it off otherwise the next revolutions going to be mighty short for them.

[JohnnyReb]

The poster does have a point....He just doesn't know where to begin inserting the stick...I do...

[NHSparky]

I'm finding it more and more likely to hope they do start something just so they can find out just what its going to take to get the kind of Government they want. I hope they got the  will and the moxie to pull it off otherwise the next revolutions going to be mighty short for them.

You could drop one in their laps but they'd be too busy scouting out the next bongload and bag of Cheetos to care.

[thundley4]

Why do liberals hate America?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

A Question for Sarah Palin: Which soldiers should we thank for our right to reproductive choice?

If 1 in 10 children were to go on and serve in the military (the figure is higher, I'm just low-balling) then so far liberalism has aborted 4.5 million US troops.

FOAD you POS