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Discussionist, Democratic Underground Held Accountable: Morningstar

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Will Morningstar:
CC190425 Discussionist, Democratic Underground Held Accountable: Morningstar

By Will Morningstar, DI Toronto

FOREWORD Thu 25 Apr 19: Cavers, DUers, Discussionists, please excuse the month's delay in publication of this promised essay. I felt it necessary to first consolidate my own position here at The Cave, by first explaining my true beliefs to my fellow members in hope of earning their understanding, and in hope my sincere efforts on all our behalf should produce a good result. Please see my Thu 04 Apr 19 essay, "Leftist or Liberal: Facts, yo" at,119934.0.html

I dedicate this essay to our beloved and indefatigable Frank Solich, who had the courage to defend me on instinct the first day we met, and the fortitude to rise from his sickbed to post "Will Morningstar's Second Open Letter to David "Skinner" Allen" on Discusionist under the title, "a reasonable request", where it has received over a thousand views, and continues to, in a prominent place on the Discussionist "Help" forum. See No-one in life has ever done as much for me since my late boss, Resident Agent, Indian National Congress (I) Sri K.O. Kochummen (Joy), Bharat Hind, who once rose from his deathbed to save my life. I only hope and pray to be worthy of the fidelity, the loyalty, and the trust these outstanding individuals have placed in me. -- Will*

SOUTHPOINT, Thu 25 April 2019:

Over the past 17 years, since the earliest days of the World Wide Web, David "Skinner" Allen has built into a community of U.S. Democratic Party supporters dedicated to working out their differences through lively internal debate, toward their common goal of "electing more Democrats".

While DU and "DUers" (as they call themselves, or "DUmmies" as some wags have tagged them -- Ed.) have had their growing pains and various internal struggles between factions from leftist to centrist in the ensuing years, (most recently the self-destructive ongoing "Bernie-or-Bust" conflict which refused to die during the 2016 election, continues to rip DU apart today, and cost this writer his membership there after 72 hours (when, on the weekend of the 2016 Democratic Convention, 48 hours after he joined, a DU alert-squad learned he might not be a Sanders supporter; another DU alert-squad feared he might not be a Clinton supporter; both of whom reporting him to the DU Malicious Intruder Removal Team as a suspected Alex Jones plant!; banned without appeal by M.I.R.T. as a "far-right malicious intruder" after 90 posts; journal erased -- Ed.); and setting that aside, it must be acknowledged that DU's survival, and continuing relevance, is a remarkable achievement by "Skinner" Allen, and his associates Elad and Eric G. (whatever we or others may think of their politics). They've carved out their niche, and defend their turf in today's hostile, weaponized online environment, by whatever means they feel necessary. This is of course their right.

The most telling evidence of the continuing influence David "Skinner" Allen's early vision has had upon the American political scene in general, as well as the U.S. Democratic Party in particular, is the number of active online discussion forums since established to meet public needs for dialogue and expression which Democratic Underground (DU) did not, would not, or was not constituted to address.

Ten years ago, The Conservative Cave (The Cave) was founded as an outlet for the Conservative thinkers and points of view shut out of the Democratic Underground (DU) Democratic Party, Liberal, Left-Wing, "Progressive" (Democratic-Socialist), and Leftist thought bubble. Recently, The Cave has also become a refuge for mainstream Liberals attracted by Conservative respect for such ideals of liberty, representative democracy, ethical behaviour, personal rights, and true freedom of expression as we share, and who may be fleeing censorship or abuse on other unmoderated, neglected, hijacked or degenerate platforms (such as David "Skinner" Allen's own -- Ed.) (link:

Three years ago, Jack Pine Radicals, named after deceased longtime DU member Jack Pine, was founded as a platform for the diehard Leftists, left-leaning Conspiracy Theorists, Democratic-Socialists, Communists, former Liberals and moderates turned extremists of Far-Left (and Far-Right), "Left-Wing-Nut-Jobs" (LWNJ's); (RWNJ's as well -- Ed.), and diehard post-convention Bernie Sanders "supporters", both American and Russian (for e.g.: "Matt M", JPR Jul-Aug 2016 -- Ed.), whose views were felt too extreme, disruptive, polarizing or of malicious and ill intent, or intended to violate the DU Terms of Service ("Elect More Democrats" -- Ed.), by those Democratic Underground members who actually supported the U.S. Democratic Party. Those whose goal is to destroy the U.S. Democratic Party and replace it with a British-style Democratic Socialist Labor Party have found a home, and kindred spirits, at JPR.

JPR, where support for the Democratic Party's 2016 presidential candidate was a banning offence, and even a claim that she "was not evil" or "deserved to live" were banning offences under the selectively-enforced JPR Terms of Service, the Greens were the party of choice, and Dr. Jill Stein was widely hailed and fĂȘted in Russia and America as the next president of the United States, continues to serve as a meetingplace for the disaffected of all stripes, and a recruiting and indoctrination tool for extremists of all extremes. JPR's founders, former Democratic Underground members Manny Goldstein and marym625, have recently moved on, although the site continues on its present course of opposing the U.S. Democratic Party from the left, and condemning DU and all its works.

The existence of yet another platform, Conservative Underground, serves as further affirmation of the truism that imitation of David "Skinner" Allen's Democratic Underground is the sincerest form of flattery.

Further evidence of 's continuing influence is the necessity felt by those of differing views to address it directly, as The Conservative Cave does in its lively DU-inspired forum The DUmpster: Liberal Lunacy Exposed,10.0.html , where DU's "greatest hits" from a Conservative viewpoint may be found, and for those, as this writer, with censored views and stolen accounts who find a place in such related forums as The DUmping Ground: Your go-to source for all things DU,40.0.html .

Five years ago, Democratic Underground founder David "Skinner" Allen founded Discussionist (Whether truly or ostensibly; as I claim to stand for fairness, I must give him the benefit of the doubt. -- Ed.) as a neutral town square where members of the public of all views and persuasions could meet to engage in "freewheeling discussion", and "civil discourse". In response to Skinner's initial vision, over 650 members joined on Discussionist's first day of operation.

This important and necessary initiative was supposed to bring us all together, and, through shared understanding, could help counter the polarization which now threatens the underpinnings of our western democracies on a global scale. And David was perfectly positioned to set aside partisan considerations, use his knowledge and influence, take a leadership role, and make it real. (And still is!) This could have been big. (And still can!) So where did it all go wrong? And what can we do to get it back? We need this now more than ever!

This writer, then new to internet forums, having had only the two prior brief and unsatisfactory encounters, first joined Discussionist in September 2017, having first learned of Discussionist from a brief mention on Democratic Underground, and unfortunately long after the rot had set in. I frankly had no idea what I was in for. Certainly wasn't asking for it. This is just what happens when you pick on someone your own size.

All I wanted was to bring folks together. I never expected to be taken to pieces within 5 minutes of joining the site. By Discussionist's own scofflaw "undercover administrator", no less. And for the same "administrator" to complain I was still there on my first anniversary. And vow I was not to survive my 9,000th post. And encourage the LW and RW extremists to work together to silence my moderate voice. And spit on every moral and ethical value the owners of Democratic Underground claim to hold dear?

David "Skinner" Allen, I lay this at your door. You can't accuse others of harming democracy if you've lost your own moral high ground. Take a lesson from the good people of The Conservative Cave, who were so disgusted by your shabby treatment they made a place for this unrepentant moderate Liberal on their own Conservative site. You claim to support the U.S. Democratic Party. How can this be if you refuse to support traditional American democratic values? How can this be if your very own Discussionist Terms of Service are a fraud and a dirty joke? And how can this be, when your public misuse of innocent members of the public, who trusted you to do right by us, brings the U.S. Democratic Party into public disrepute?

Unmoderated, neglected, hijacked and degenerate, Discussionist now serves only as a rallying point for the worst elements, the moderate-hating extremists, the victim-seeking sadists, the woman-hating incels, and the indifferent psychopaths such an abandoned forum selects for and attracts. The remaining holdouts among the long-suffering honest members of Discussionist (approx. 80% Conservative, 20% Liberal etc.), continue to maintain the relationships they have established with each other, while keeping their heads down in the face of the invasion of these various assassins of character and enemies of civil discourse, not wanting to stick their necks out for fear of being "next".

Skinner, in understandable self-defence, has disabled the new membership process as of May 2018, and appears content to let his dream die a slow and tortuous death. I, Will Morningstar, however, am not willing to accept that my thirteen months of bridge-building, promotion of civil discourse, wiilling acceptance of every position that makes good sense, defence of all under attack by the alert-gangs, and defiance in the face of relentless bullying and harassment, should all go to waste. Nor am I willing to be cut off and ostracised from all the friends I've made there, by an organized gang of game-playing attackers. Nor am I willing to abandon the many friends I made on Discussionist to such a sad fate. The bad guys don't have to win.

Over the course of 9,170 posts over thirteen months, I have presented one consistent message in the face of all adversity: love beats hate, faith beats nihilism, and hope outweighs despair. Where there is life, we can never abandon all hope, and where there is trust between friends, all things are possible. (And my efforts have met with a certain success: note that my staunchest defenders and most reliable allies are overwhelmingly Conservative. "So we treat you better than your own? Indicative."? You betcha, SSG! You always have. -- Wm*)

I call upon David to restore our stolen Discussionist accounts. Please begin with the accounts of NavyBrat, Konsurvative and liberalguy, and also reinstate Will Morningstar. This will do for a start. As a courtesy, please send them an e-mail to notify them their disabled accounts have been reactivated.

Skinner, please come back. You ARE appreciated, and in your absence, your true friends and well-wishers have tried to keep your dream alive.

Next, please un-cripple the new members' registration process, as I believe the honest majority of Discussionists who've toughed it out may now be prepared to assert themselves and be pushed around by the few vocal and organized bullies no longer.

David, Elad and Eric G., please find the faith to believe in the great potential of your own creation as much as we all do, and let us enjoy Discussionist as you first intended once again.

Your aspiring friend,

-- Will Morningstar

c/o The DUmping Ground



Written Sun 31 Mar 19

POSTSCRIPT Tue 02 Apr 19: Today Arthur Brooks has published a new book. "Love Your Enemies: How Decent People Can Save America From the Culture of Contempt". He offers these suggestions:

1) Don't assume we are moral and our rivals are immoral. We're both moral.

2) Stay on arguments about compassion and fairness. These values we share.

3) Respect the moral core of the other person's argument.

4) Don't settle for mere "civility" and "tolerance". These are garbage standards. Try that with your wife and see how far you get.

5) Disagreement in our democracy is the foundation of our strength.

My dear American cousins, shall we give in to the Destructionists, or stand together as Discussionists? We all deserve the best your American heritage has to offer. Love for the land, opportunity for the future, and respect for the lessons of the past, are also values we share.

Can we not measure our true riches in the friendships we have made, the wisdom and understanding we achieve, and the lessons we've learned from each other when we take the time and good care?

-- 30 --

One wonders if you are making the same obsessive efforts to return to the other forums you "left" (willingly or not) as you are for DI.  As you probably have foreseen yourself, DI is on its last legs, and even today (4/26/19) is 'down', for who knows how long.

Several posters from DI have moved here , you might give that a try.

Will Morningstar:

--- Quote from: dane on April 26, 2019, 07:56:00 AM ---One wonders if you are making the same obsessive efforts to return to the other forums you "left" (willingly or not) as you are for DI.  As you probably have foreseen yourself, DI is on its last legs, and even today (4/26/19) is 'down', for who knows how long.

Several posters from DI have moved here , you might give that a try.

--- End quote ---

Thanks for your reply, Dane. To answer your question, today is the first day I've even looked at the internet in almost a month. One would hardly call that "obsessive", wouldn't you think? I'm taking my own good time, and giving Skinner every fair chance to do right by his members, before taking further action. (Watch DU's facebook page.)

You've all been very good to me here, for which I am truly grateful. I believe we have common cause in many ways, and deserve to be friends and set a good example for others by working together where we can. As conservative commentator and moral philosopher Arthur Brooks points out: "Disagreement in our democracy is the foundation of our strength." And so is agreement, where we can find it.

Muddling 2:
Will manages to create drama wherever he posts.  He feeds off of it, like a parasite.

Will Morningstar:

--- Quote from: Muddling 2 on October 10, 2019, 07:07:55 PM ---Will manages to create drama wherever he posts.  He feeds off of it, like a parasite.

--- End quote ---

Not true. At least you've refrained from attacking me here, Muddles.

I'd rather not post than have to defend myself from the same few of you all the time.

As The Cave has been good to me, I will say nothing against a fellow member, whatever you have to say about me, MuddlingThrough/2/Too.


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