Rolling Stone's Racist Cartoon of McCain

[dandi]

As I stated, if what I said was misplaced or if I read you wrong, I apologize.

However, have I been in that position? No. That's WHY I won't downplay a retired Navy Captain's 5.5 years as a POW. There are things to ridicule and criticize about McCain. This, in my opinion, isn't one of'em. I read your comment as kind of a slap to the face of McCain as to him almost breaking down. I.e., I read, "Bullshit, McCain can't hold out? Stockdale damn sure did". So, if I read that right, what were you trying to say? McCain is a ***** or something? When you've been deployed, how long did that 6 months feel like? How long did that year feel like? ....and that was in freedom. Now, contrast that with 5.5 years in a Damn POW camp.

Hey, again, if I'm reading you wrong, I apologize. I'm just a little ****ing on edge right now about people denigrating and downing McCain's service. I'm sick of seeing cartoons depicting him being prodded in a ****ing Tiger cage. I'm sick of seeing DUmbasses call him dishonorable. I'm sick of seeing those fools say he is mentally-impaired because of it.

The poster whom I quoted said that no one could go 5 years without breaking.  I simply pointed out that Admiral Stockdale did.  Historical perspective and all that.

[Peter3_1]

Speaking from very limited experience I can assure you that being subject to electrical discharge thru your body will, indeed, break you. My 1/8th inch in McCain's shoes a part of McCain's mile have convinced me anyone can be broken.

 Hell, , you'll confess to assassinating LINCOLN, and give a believable story line subjected to the person appropriate methods.

With electricity, recanting would be possible, unless the brain was damaged, within a few hours, and, of course, a public , open confession, would be impossible unless you were hooked up, and it would take a shot or three before you "fessed up" again. Hardly propaganda worthy.

Simple physical pain is something you can endure, and will simply make many drift into a raging hatred of the ones torturing, others will simply withdraw, others will try to try and make it stop by "colaberating". Some will "collaberate" simply by treating them with "respect". Normally, these are the Lee Harvey Oswald types, people normally shunned by most, and today, the DU Primituives are supurb examples.

I have no idea what Adm. Stockdale was subjected to, there is no question he was affected both mentally and physically for life. When he was abused as the vice Presidential candidate it caused me pain. Made me vcery anti-littletexasweasel. Not to mention, left me with confirmation that me distaste with the "drive by media" was not misplaced and elevated it to comtempt.

Whatever it was, for what ever reason, he was not made to "confess" any "crimes" . In addition,he was not the son of a Fleet Admrial, someone who's "confession" would be worth a ton in the propaganda arena. The Hanoi Janes would have LOVED IT. But, the actual WAR CRIMINALS, THE NORTH VIETNAMESE ARMY, were unable to make him "confess" in public, I'm guessing that having him "hooked up" and being zapped on video tape might have had a negative effect on the propagana value of the confession.

We must never forget that the Vietnams were signatures on the Geneva Treaties and what they did was worthy of War Crimes trials, and after the Congress sold S. Vietnam down the river, the N. V. Government should have been charged with genocide.

Lastly, McCain behaved as required by the Code of Conduct and far more. His survival was heroic.

But TODAY, he is very mistaken in many of his positions, but still a UNIVERSE better than the idiot Obama.

[dandi]

I have no idea what Adm. Stockdale was subjected to

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/sto0int-3

Upon his release in 1973, Stockdale's extraordinary heroism became widely
known and he was awarded the Medal of Honor in 1976.  A portion of his
citation reads: "Stockdale...deliberately inflicted a near mortal wound to
his person in order to convince his captors of his willingness to give up
his life rather than capitulate.  He was subsequently discovered and revived
by the North Vietnamese who, convinced of his indomitable spirit, abated
their employment of excessive harassment and torture of all prisoners of
war."

http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/s/s118.htm

Whatever it was, for what ever reason, he was not made to "confess" any "crimes" .

You are kidding, right?

In addition,he was not the son of a Fleet Admrial, someone who's "confession" would be worth a ton in the propaganda arena.

Yeah, you're right.  He was just the most senior Naval Officer there and the Commanding Officer of the prisoners.  His "confession" wouldn't mean shit.   

 

Lastly, McCain behaved as required by the Code of Conduct and far more. His survival was heroic.

But TODAY, he is very mistaken in many of his positions, but still a UNIVERSE better than the idiot Obama.

No argument on either point.

[Rebel]

Wasp, you do realize no one is questioning Admiral Stockdale's heroism and integrity, right? You also realize that when we defend McCain, we're not putting down Admiral Stockdale, right? I don't see how these two issues married up, but both men are honorable and both are heroes.

As for Peter, he's a Vietnam veteran himself having served there as, "I think", an 11B.

[dandi]

Wasp, you do realize no one is questioning Admiral Stockdale's heroism and integrity, right? You also realize that when we defend McCain, we're not putting down Admiral Stockdale, right? I don't see how these two issues married up, but both men are honorable and both are heroes.

Am I being too sensitive at the wrong time?

[Rebel]

Wasp, you do realize no one is questioning Admiral Stockdale's heroism and integrity, right? You also realize that when we defend McCain, we're not putting down Admiral Stockdale, right? I don't see how these two issues married up, but both men are honorable and both are heroes.

Am I being too sensitive at the wrong time?

I don't understand. Hell, to be honest, I don't understand this entire thing. I don't understand why you felt the need to slight McCain using Stockdale's time and I don't understand why you feel defending McCain IS denigrating Stockdale.

[Hawkgirl]

I'm gonna have to side with Rebel on this one.  Who are you ( or anyone for that matter ) to judge him during his imprisonment.  I read about his ordeal a few weeks ago from a link on this site and to judge him at all is plain offensive.

[Peter3_1]

No, there was nothing about Adm.Stockdale's torture that was anything that did not show him stoic and  heroic from my view.  As I wrote, physical  body bamaging torture cannot crack  everyone. And at the point you describe, his willingness to die, the RVA decided that he should live, you'd have to ask them why, as they killed many officers without hesitation.

McCain , it seems to me, was a different case. They wanted to break him down, and they did so physically, with no more result thanb with S

[dandi]

Wasp, you do realize no one is questioning Admiral Stockdale's heroism and integrity, right? You also realize that when we defend McCain, we're not putting down Admiral Stockdale, right? I don't see how these two issues married up, but both men are honorable and both are heroes.

Am I being too sensitive at the wrong time?

I don't understand. Hell, to be honest, I don't understand this entire thing. I don't understand why you felt the need to slight McCain using Stockdale's time and I don't understand why you feel defending McCain IS denigrating Stockdale.

Jesus Harold Christ!  Am I the only one here that can ****ing read?  I wasn't slighting McCain!

Here, I'll repeat it for the rest of you that don't seem to get it:

I WAS NOT SLIGHTING MCCAIN!  I WAS POINTING OUT TO A POSTER ON THIS THREAD THAT YES, THERE WERE PEOPLE IMPRISONED AT THE HANOI HILTON WHO WERE IN CAPTIVITY LONGER THAN SENATOR MCCAIN AND DID NOT BREAK!  I ALSO CORRECTED ANOTHER POSTER WHO WAS WRONG ABOUT THE CAPTIVITY AND CONDUCT OF ADMIRAL STOCKDALE!

Does that clear it up?

For someone to point out that I am defending Admiral Jim Stockdale at the expense of Senator McCain would mean that I have no respect for the service and imprisonment of Senator McCain.  I wouldn't piss on Senator McCain if he were on fire.  I would, on the other hand, make sure that LCDR McCain wanted for nothing for the rest of his life.

It also means that there were more prisoners that got tortured than Senator McCain.  Have we forgotten that?  Is that all we are judging this Senator by?

[dandi]

I'm gonna have to side with Rebel on this one.  Who are you ( or anyone for that matter ) to judge him during his imprisonment.  I read about his ordeal a few weeks ago from a link on this site and to judge him at all is plain offensive.

Then I would suggest you go back and reread the thread.

[Texacon]

Wasp, you do realize no one is questioning Admiral Stockdale's heroism and integrity, right? You also realize that when we defend McCain, we're not putting down Admiral Stockdale, right? I don't see how these two issues married up, but both men are honorable and both are heroes.

Am I being too sensitive at the wrong time?

I don't understand. Hell, to be honest, I don't understand this entire thing. I don't understand why you felt the need to slight McCain using Stockdale's time and I don't understand why you feel defending McCain IS denigrating Stockdale.

Jesus Harold Christ!  Am I the only one here that can ****ing read?  I wasn't slighting McCain!

Here, I'll repeat it for the rest of you that don't seem to get it:

I WAS NOT SLIGHTING MCCAIN!  I WAS POINTING OUT TO A POSTER ON THIS THREAD THAT YES, THERE WERE PEOPLE IMPRISONED AT THE HANOI HILTON WHO WERE IN CAPTIVITY LONGER THAN SENATOR MCCAIN AND DID NOT BREAK!  I ALSO CORRECTED ANOTHER POSTER WHO WAS WRONG ABOUT THE CAPTIVITY AND CONDUCT OF ADMIRAL STOCKDALE!

Does that clear it up?

For someone to point out that I am defending Admiral Jim Stockdale at the expense of Senator McCain would mean that I have no respect for the service and imprisonment of Senator McCain.  I wouldn't piss on Senator McCain if he were on fire.  I would, on the other hand, make sure that LCDR McCain wanted for nothing for the rest of his life.

It also means that there were more prisoners that got tortured than Senator McCain.  Have we forgotten that?  Is that all we are judging this Senator by?

I don't get it .... what do you have against McCain?!






























































 


 


 


KC

[dandi]

Wasp, you do realize no one is questioning Admiral Stockdale's heroism and integrity, right? You also realize that when we defend McCain, we're not putting down Admiral Stockdale, right? I don't see how these two issues married up, but both men are honorable and both are heroes.

Am I being too sensitive at the wrong time?

I don't understand. Hell, to be honest, I don't understand this entire thing. I don't understand why you felt the need to slight McCain using Stockdale's time and I don't understand why you feel defending McCain IS denigrating Stockdale.

Jesus Harold Christ!  Am I the only one here that can ****ing read?  I wasn't slighting McCain!

Here, I'll repeat it for the rest of you that don't seem to get it:

I WAS NOT SLIGHTING MCCAIN!  I WAS POINTING OUT TO A POSTER ON THIS THREAD THAT YES, THERE WERE PEOPLE IMPRISONED AT THE HANOI HILTON WHO WERE IN CAPTIVITY LONGER THAN SENATOR MCCAIN AND DID NOT BREAK!  I ALSO CORRECTED ANOTHER POSTER WHO WAS WRONG ABOUT THE CAPTIVITY AND CONDUCT OF ADMIRAL STOCKDALE!

Does that clear it up?

For someone to point out that I am defending Admiral Jim Stockdale at the expense of Senator McCain would mean that I have no respect for the service and imprisonment of Senator McCain.  I wouldn't piss on Senator McCain if he were on fire.  I would, on the other hand, make sure that LCDR McCain wanted for nothing for the rest of his life.

It also means that there were more prisoners that got tortured than Senator McCain.  Have we forgotten that?  Is that all we are judging this Senator by?

I don't get it .... what do you have against McCain?!






























































 


 


 


KC