The Conservative Cave
Interests => Religious Discussions => Topic started by: marv on April 12, 2012, 10:41:54 AM
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I think that I'm qualified to criticize, complement, or otherwise comment on religious matters and observations. Some are very distressing.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/295305/american-gospel-kevin-d-williamson?pg=1(snip)
Anti-Mormonism within the Christian Right [was] a problem for Romney in the primaries; the anti-Mormonism of the secular Left will be a bigger one in the general election. Gallup finds Democrats 50 percent more hostile to Mormons than Republicans, and the Democrats’ choir of hate — Larry O’Donnell, Bill Maher, etc. — already is rehearsing its anti-Mormon litany, while Jacob Weisberg, writing in Slate, argued that Romney’s religion should be disqualifying in and of itself.
(snip)
There is a weird contrast at the heart of American attitudes toward Mormons: Their doctrines may sound exotic to mainstream Christians — whose idea of sensible and respectable orthodoxy is engaging in weekly sessions of symbolic or mystically literal cannibalism in honor of a Jewish god-man who ran afoul of the Roman criminal-justice system after a dinner party went south 20 centuries ago — but, personal planets or no, Mormons themselves are practically the yardstick of normalcy. Every religion gets a stereotype, and the Mormon stereotype is: nice, clean-cut, well-mannered, earnest, sober.
(snip)
He’s wishing somebody would ask him about his regulatory-pricing plan, structural reform of the federal government, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, countervailing duties on Chinese goods — but like Bill Clinton, he can expect to be asked about his underwear.
...and from the Harrison, AR, Harrison Daily newspaper...
http://harrisondaily.com/search/?t=article&q=pipe+bomb
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I think that I'm qualified to criticize, complement, or otherwise comment on religious matters and observations. Some are very distressing.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/295305/american-gospel-kevin-d-williamson?pg=1
...and from the Harrison, AR, Harrison Daily newspaper...
http://harrisondaily.com/search/?t=article&q=pipe+bomb
Just found this Marv, interesting.
So we now take apart the different sects of the Protestants, Each and every one have different beliefs and rites, from Quakers, 7th day Adventists, Christian Scientist, etc-etc.
Then the Catholic Church, we have the Church of Rome, and the Orthodox Catholic Churches, Greek, Russian, Ethiopian, etc-etc.
So of all the Christian Churches in the world, what is the ONE sect that is acceptable to all the others ?
We have had just ONE Catholic President in our history, and ONE possible Muslim or a known member of a radical black Church, what ever sect they are. ----I do not think they are Presbyterian--- Definitely not Lutherans.
So the Mormon Church only goes back to the 1800 time. Quite a number of other faiths arose at the same time frame and all had difficulty's in the early years.
Just wondering if Mitt were a woman and a NUN running for President would anyone ask her if she wore underware and if so what kind ?
Lets ask Obama about his skivvies, does he wear a thong or go commando.
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I may not agree with everything Romney does, including his religion (Although a Mormon is better than a Muslim). But when it comes down to it, I will pick him over Obama any day. It is a case of anyone but Obama.
Looking at Obama's record and how he screwed it up, there is no way Romney could make it any worse.
That is how the left is going to do it. They know Obama's record sucks, so they are going to do anything they can distract from it. And the fact that Romney is a Mormon is nothing compared to Obama and his associations.
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I may not agree with everything Romney does, including his religion (Although a Mormon is better than a Muslim). But when it comes down to it, I will pick him over Obama any day. It is a case of anyone but Obama.
Looking at Obama's record and how he screwed it up, there is no way Romney could make it any worse.
That is how the left is going to do it. They know Obama's record sucks, so they are going to do anything they can distract from it. And the fact that Romney is a Mormon is nothing compared to Obama and his associations.
Take a look at the past presidents and what they SAID they prescribed to.
Some of our founding fathers had no belief in GOD whats so ever.
Back in my child hood the Conservatives all ranted that a Catholic president would mean he took orders from the Pope. Not so as we have found, from that time we find the Pope took orders from the Kennedy family, check into the family members that wanted a divorce and the Church granted a Kennedy member an allurement to a 20 year marriage making the kids Bastards so the Kennedy member could marry in the Church a new wife.
Where did this leave the x wife and kids in the the church , she was now an unwed mother of grown children and the kids were now not allowed to participate in some functions as they and their children not considered as valid by birth members of the church.
Crap. Shit happens to those that least expect it.
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According to the founder of the Mormon church, it goes back to the beginning of time.
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It is like I said, Vesta. It is anyone but Obama. There can't be a write in this time; this is an important election and in the effort to get rid of Obama, people are going to have to vote for Romney. They will have no choice. Doing a write in, or voting for a third person will diminish the chances of obama losing. That can't happen. We need to remove Obama, stat.
According to the founder of the Mormon church, it goes back to the beginning of time.
I really don't want to get into a discussion about Joseph Smith. It will just give me a headache.
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It is like I said, Vesta. It is anyone but Obama. There can't be a write in this time; this is an important election and in the effort to get rid of Obama, people are going to have to vote for Romney. They will have no choice. Doing a write in, or voting for a third person will diminish the chances of obama losing. That can't happen. We need to remove Obama, stat.
I really don't want to get into a discussion about Joseph Smith. It will just give me a headache.
Sorry about your headache, but the comment was directed to vesta who asserted that the religion began in the 1800's
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Sorry about your headache, but the comment was directed to vesta who asserted that the religion began in the 1800's
Whew! :-)
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I would vote for a Mormon, a Catholic, a Jew, etc over Obama who kisses Muslims asses every chance he gets. Romney will not do that; that is one reason out of many that I will vote for him.
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Sorry about your headache, but the comment was directed to vesta who asserted that the religion began in the 1800's
Has anyone read the book of Mormon ?????
I have and found it to be a remarkable book, BUT, one has to ignore historical and anthropology of today's world.
The history of the movement is a true look at the trials and tribulations that any faith carries at the time of conception. The true history of the faith is a cliff hanger, taken from news papers and journals of the time, diary's and old letters has everything from Lust, Greed, Murder, Betrayal, True Love and Devotion.
This faith is the best documented we have on earth. I have no problem with a faith that today promotes health, survival ,Charity, and a God based belief that they are here to help not just their own but non believers as well.
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The Mormon faith is only documented by one person. The Christian faith is documented by many, and far more documented, as well as better, than the Mormon faith.
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The Mormon faith is only documented by one person. The Christian faith is documented by many, and far more documented, as well as better, than the Mormon faith.
+1. ^5
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I may not agree with everything Romney does, including his religion (Although a Mormon is better than a Muslim). But when it comes down to it, I will pick him over Obama any day. It is a case of anyone but Obama.
Looking at Obama's record and how he screwed it up, there is no way Romney could make it any worse.
That is how the left is going to do it. They know Obama's record sucks, so they are going to do anything they can distract from it. And the fact that Romney is a Mormon is nothing compared to Obama and his associations.
Same here. Plus, I think the poll is an outright lie. 22% would not vote for a Mormon is bullshit. Would like to see a poll by this dingbat on how many would not vote for a Muslim.
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I think the survey is flawed. Romney's Mormonism is a non issue,someone trying to make it an issue and I don't think it has legs.
The majority leader of the U.S. Senate and the most senior Republican senator are two of the 15 Church members serving in the 112th United States Congress this year. The members were sworn in Jan. 5.
Sen. Harry Reid, Nevada, the majority leader of the U.S. Senate, was elected to his fifth term and has served since 1986.
Now in his sixth term as Utah's senator, Orrin Hatch was first elected in 1976. He is the former chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
LDS members of the U.S. Senate
Other Latter-day Saint senators include:
Sen. Mike Crapo, R-Idaho, elected in 1998.
Newly elected Sen. Mike Lee, R-Utah.
Sen. Tom Udall, D-New Mexico, elected in 2008.
LDS members of the U.S. House
Latter-day Saints serving in the U.S. House of Representatives include:
Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah, elected in 2002.
Rep. Jason Chaffetz, R-Utah, elected in 2008.
Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., elected in 2000.
Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nevada, elected in 2006.
Rep. Wally Herger, R-Calif., elected in 1986.
Newly elected Rep. Raul Labrador, R-Idaho.
Rep. Jim Matheson, D-Utah, elected in 2000.
Rep. Buck McKeon, R-Calif., elected in 1992.
Rep. Mike Simpson, R-Idaho, elected in 1998.
Rep. Eni Faleomavaega, D-American Samoa, is one of five territorial representatives in the House. He is in his 13th term as American Samoa's nonvoting delegate.
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I agree, Zeus. They might try to make it an issue. But it won't work. The thing that a I would say in that case will be how they didn't make Obama's muslim roots and issue, or Obama's associates an issue. Of course if Obama was a republican it would have been an issue. That is just how the liberals play it. As long as you have a D after your name, you can be an axe murderer and they will let all your murders go and try to elect you. Hell, if Hitler was alive today and running on the democratic ticket, the liberals would do anything they can to elect him and keep electing him. That may be a little far fetched, but I think you get the point.
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[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMUgNg7aD8M[/youtube]
If reporters even mention faith to Romney, he should have this clip handy and show it. :-)
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The Mormon faith is only documented by one person. The Christian faith is documented by many, and far more documented, as well as better, than the Mormon faith.
Sorry I should have been more specific, the evolution of the faith is documented by newspaper accounts, photographs, and personal diary's of those on scene as it was unfolding to non believers and believers alike.
The early settlers of Utah were by some accounts blood thirsty and violently protective of their new land, at one time people needed an army escort to travel unmolested with in 50 miles of their settlements.
The Christian faith is as well documented as it can be with mortal men censoring the records a thousand years after the fact. We have to look back a few thousand years to attempt to visualise the society of the time, some gone with no explanation. We find the ruins of city's that held thousands of people at one time and to even try to guess who they were use the Bible to make an educated guess.
The Mormons however came into being in the age of technology, with photographic evidence and the printing press, Heck when Custer died his widow was left huge telephone bills. Hard to believe the East had electricity and the automobile of sorts in a time when men fought the Indians on horse back and most of the West was still wild held by the Indian tribes.
The Book of Mormon makes a good read, funny as all get out when something is reported as fact and we know this is an impossibility at that time, but, still interesting.
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Quote from vesta
"The Christian faith is as well documented as it can be with mortal men censoring the records a thousand years after the fact. We have to look back a few thousand years to attempt to visualise the society of the time, some gone with no explanation. We find the ruins of city's that held thousands of people at one time and to even try to guess who they were use the Bible to make an educated guess."
You equate the inspired word of God with "mortal men censoring". You also say 1,000 years after the fact. The letters of Saint Paul were within the lifetime of a man who lived at the same time as Jesus. The dead sea scrolls and other Authors have been dated to approximately 60 to 70 years AD. I think you are way off in this assertion.
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Quote from vesta
"The Christian faith is as well documented as it can be with mortal men censoring the records a thousand years after the fact. We have to look back a few thousand years to attempt to visualise the society of the time, some gone with no explanation. We find the ruins of city's that held thousands of people at one time and to even try to guess who they were use the Bible to make an educated guess."
You equate the inspired word of God with "mortal men censoring". You also say 1,000 years after the fact. The letters of Saint Paul were within the lifetime of a man who lived at the same time as Jesus. The dead sea scrolls and other Authors have been dated to approximately 60 to 70 years AD. I think you are way off in this assertion.
I was speaking of the Mother Church and the church leaders 1000 years after the writing that gathered to, under great political pressure decide what was and what not to be included in the New Testament. ----The Catholic Bible has chapters that the Protestant does not have, and the Orthodox Catholic Church's have others as well.
I am not saying that there was any disagreemen about Jesus and his life, death, and reserection, all agree on that. Simply that there was so many chapters by so many people that to include them all would have made the Bible 50 feet tall.
Then there were chapters written with a political slant that did not go over with the Politics of that time. My guess is that the Church leaders simplified the New Testament by including ----Just the facts---- and tried to keep from having chapter after chapter of 3-4 eye witness say the same thing. [ or as in today's life perhaps have different view points on what they saw or were told.]
A huge labor to hand write the bible in those days, thousands of Monks went blind after spending years transcribing the Bible under candle light or sunlight. The dead sea Scrolls are another matter intirely, they were hidden from Enemy's in caves by people that risked their lives to save the WORD.
How the letters of Saint Paul survived is a wonder in itself.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002675452
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Romney is running for President of the United States, not church preacher.
I remember how people were afraid of JFK, and how the Pope would run the country if JFK were elected. Didn't happen......
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As a straight-down-the-line Catholic I have no time for Mormonism on a theological level and don't regard it as a Christian religion...but that's not what's up for debate here.
From what I can see, active Mormons are good and decent people; their religion teaches them to be honest and have good moral values, and be particularly focused on their families - I see these sorts of factors as being relevant to a presidential candidate, whereas whether the validity of their baptisms isn't relevant.
That said, my biggest problem with Mormonism is that it bans drinking... ;)
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As a straight-down-the-line Catholic I have no time for Mormonism on a theological level and don't regard it as a Christian religion...
Conservative batshit cultists are still more rational than the most scientifically grounded leftist.
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Conservative batshit cultists are still more rational than the most scientifically grounded leftist.
Quite profound, I may have to use that at some point.
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GodlessBiker (6,009 posts)
9. Yes, but how many angels does each side think can dance on the head of a pin?
I say let the feud keep on percolating. It makes both sides look idiotic.
trumad (31,841 posts)
10. Nope...
The Right Wing Christian Right can't stand Mormonism.
Let them stay home on election day because of it....
Bake (19,503 posts)
15. From your keyboard to Whoever's ears!
I think we need to remind the teabaggers at every turn that Mittens is one of THOSE--a freakin' Mormon! He's not one of THEM, he's a MORON--oops, MORMON!!! Remind them to watch "Sister Wives" or "Big Love."
By any means necessary.
Bake
siligut (7,489 posts)
11. I am much more concerned about this . . .
Whatever happens in November, I hope Mormonism eventually realizes that it doesn’t need Christianity’s approval and will get big and beat up all the imperious Christians who tormented it when it was small, weird and painfully self-conscious. Mormons are certainly Christian enough to know how to spitefully abuse their power.
The imagined persecution complex that the LDS church has affixed permanently to themselves is going to turn to vengeance.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002803307
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Two sides if Mormons are Christians or not.
Are Mormons Christian? It's complicated
http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2012-01/are-mormons-christian-its-complicated
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints-Are Mormons Christians?
http://mormon.org/faq/mormon-christian/
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Two sides if Mormons are Christians or not.
Are Mormons Christian? It's complicated
http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2012-01/are-mormons-christian-its-complicated
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints-Are Mormons Christians?
http://mormon.org/faq/mormon-christian/
Where Christians and Mormons part is on the book of Mormon. But, I also think that Reagan's rules of agreement apply.
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Thank God I'm an agnostic.
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Thank God I'm an agnostic.
Maybe I can recommend some other religions that may have a strong appeal to you.
Thank God for sidewalks, I'm a pedestrian.
Thank God for Australian Shepherds, I am a frisbetarian !
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A Mormon or a communist atheist that joined a "church"(?) to further his political career?
Boy! That's a tough one ain't it.
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A Mormon or a communist atheist that joined a "church"(?) to further his political career?
Boy! That's a tough one ain't it.
In the topic of religion Old Ben asks if a person can be saved after death.
The Mormons believe so and have a rite to baptise the dead. Quite a fire storm :fuelfire: erupted when they started baptising the deceased Jews ----Boy were the family's pissed off when they found Uncle Abraham had been yanked out of the heaven for the Jews and was now in Mormon heaven.
Fancy had this been reversed and the Jews went on a soul raiding expedition into the heaven for the Mormons or the Mormons began to charge into Allah land and kidnap the souls of the Muslims.
Question is, what are the Mormons going to do with all those virgins in Allah Land ?????---------OH yes silly me, no problem they would marry them off to the deceased Mormons --Say what am I missing here ?????
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In the topic of religion Old Ben asks if a person can be saved after death.
The Mormons believe so and have a rite to baptise the dead. Quite a fire storm :fuelfire: erupted when they started baptising the deceased Jews ----Boy were the family's pissed off when they found Uncle Abraham had been yanked out of the heaven for the Jews and was now in Mormon heaven.
Fancy had this been reversed and the Jews went on a soul raiding expedition into the heaven for the Mormons or the Mormons began to charge into Allah land and kidnap the souls of the Muslims.
Question is, what are the Mormons going to do with all those virgins in Allah Land ?????---------OH yes silly me, no problem they would marry them off to the deceased Mormons --Say what am I missing here ?????
As already been explained to you; we are electing a President.... Not a church preacher. Got it. Plus I could give a Royal Shit what is going to happen to those virgins in Allah Land.
My question to you is where do you come up with all this stupidity?
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As already been explained to you; we are electing a President.... Not a church preacher. Got it. Plus I could give a Royal Shit what is going to happen to those virgins in Allah Land.
My question to you is where do you come up with all this stupidity?
I am thinking she looks it up before she posts. There is no way that someone can know as much as she claims to know.
As for President, I would rather have a Mormon (Romney) than a Muslim (Obama) any day. I can guarantee that if it would have been wider known that Obama was a Muslim in 2008, he would never have made it past the Primaries.
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I am thinking she looks it up before she posts. There is no way that someone can know as much as she claims to know.
As for President, I would rather have a Mormon (Romney) than a Muslim (Obama) any day. I can guarantee that if it would have been wider known that Obama was a Muslim in 2008, he would never have made it past the Primaries.
My main problem with a person being a Muslim as far as being president, is that they most likely would be a DemonRat.
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My main problem with a person being a Muslim as far as being president, is that they most likely would be a DemonRat.
More than likely. My main problem would be what they do, well, we already know some of what they would do. All you have to do is look at Obama's record for the past three years to see that.
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More than likely. My main problem would be what they do, well, we already know some of what they would do. All you have to do is look at Obama's record for the past three years to see that.
Most of what he has done is because he is a DemonRat, not Muslim.
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Most of what he has done is because he is a DemonRat, not Muslim.
Kicking National Day of prayer out of the White House?
Kicking Israel in the teeth on multiple occasions?
Celebrating Ramadan?
Not celebrating Easter?
Praising the Muslim Brotherhood?
I know President Clinton also did not celebrate national day of prayer, so I guess I can let that one slide. But the rest?
Edit:I just did some research, and until this year he did not celebrate National Day of Prayer, or Easter. I wonder why he decided to this year? Oh wait, it's an election year.
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Kicking National Day of prayer out of the White House?
Kicking Israel in the teeth on multiple occasions?
Celebrating Ramadan?
Not celebrating Easter?
Praising the Muslim Brotherhood?
I know President Clinton also did not celebrate national day of prayer, so I guess I can let that one slide. But the rest?
Edit:I just did some research, and until this year he did not celebrate National Day of Prayer, or Easter. I wonder why he decided to this year? Oh wait, it's an election year.
All those things are things that a typical DemonRat would do, just a little more than most. I put that on Obama's ego.
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All the muslims elected recently, and sworn in on the koran were members of the democrat party.
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A Mormon or a communist atheist that joined a "church"(?) to further his political career?
Boy! That's a tough one ain't it.
Leaders have been changing their faith to get in good with the majority or lop off the heads of others that may cause the crowds to cheer goes WAY back . Nothing new under the sun.
Old Peanut farmer Jimmy Carter has within the last couple years renounced the Church he stood by for a life time and joined a less strict Congregation, I wonder what's that all about ???? How would his changing before his Presidency have effected life in the White House and world events ????
Obama made REV. Wright a celebrity few of us ever heard of until all the money folk joined up without actually hearing what the REV. was preaching. Poor Wright, got too full of himself and thundered out that "God Damn the USA" The wealthy with huge carears fled and separated themselves from that Church. [ At least they said they did ]---------
Obama did not throw Wright under the Bus, all full of himself Wright walked on his own to crawl under the bus
and believed God would save him. Could be he was correct in that he is now personally 50 x wealthier then before Obama. Retired , out of the 15 minutes of fame, still collecting big bucks for any personal appearance.
We have seen Photo's of Obama debasing him self by genuflecting to the Islam Leaders, any photos of him meeting the Pope or Rabbi's of that faith ????
Heck he damn near hit his head on the floor bowing to the leader of Japan yet committed a grave error of disrespect to the leader of Israel.
Obama is a Puppet, nothing more or less, he will curtsy to the devil if he can get something out of it.
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My main problem with a person being a Muslim as far as being president, is that they most likely would be a DemonRat.
Mine is that they might outlaw bacon.