The Conservative Cave
Interests => Religious Discussions => Topic started by: CactusCarlos on April 04, 2013, 05:09:04 PM
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One afternoon while ministering to the homeless in downtown Fort Worth, Texas, I fell into a conversation with a stranger about religion, which eventually led to the subject of Christ. Without hesitating, he came right out and said, “I’m a gay Christian.†After he admitted to being an active homosexual, he added, “I have studied the whole Bible and nowhere does it teach that homosexuality is a sin.â€
I countered his claim, but the conversation became understandably awkward.
Since then, I’ve met others who believe that the Bible does not condemn homosexual acts as sinful. In fact, the Apostle Paul condemned homosexuality on three separate occasions. In his epistle to the Romans, Paul describes the origin of idolatry and associates it with the origins of homosexuality, among both men and women:
The rest: http://www.taylormarshall.com/2013/04/homosexuality-does-new-testament.html
I think it's a good article, worthy of keeping.
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“I’m a gay Christian. I have studied the whole Bible and nowhere does it teach that homosexuality is a sin.â€
Might as well say "I'm a Christian that doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." End result is the same.
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Read 1 Timothy
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%201:1-11&version=KJV
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Romans 1:26-27
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201:26,%2027&version=NIV
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Sometimes it looks as if the bible is talking about democrats.
.....They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice.....
:whistling:
Romans 1:28-32
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A28-32&version=NIV
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Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9–10).
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+6%3A9-10&version=ESV
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It is possible to be a gay Christian. "Orientation" (or any other sinful desire) has no effect on being a Christian ...as long as you don't give in to sinful actions or thoughts. Obedience and love overcome sinful desires.
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It is possible to be a gay Christian. "Orientation" (or any other sinful desire) has no effect on being a Christian ...as long as you don't give in to sinful actions or thoughts. Obedience and love overcome sinful desires.
"Gay Christian" makes as much sense as "Adulterous Christian", "Lying Christian", or "Thieving Christian".
The OP says "After he admitted to being an active homosexual" - I'm pretty sure that means he's past the point of giving in to sinful thoughts.
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"Gay Christian" makes as much sense as "Adulterous Christian", "Lying Christian", or "Thieving Christian".
The OP says "After he admitted to being an active homosexual" - I'm pretty sure that means he's past the point of giving in to sinful thoughts.
I didn't mean the OP. As a general statement, however, all have sinful desires. A chaste homosexual can certainly be a true and obedient Christian.
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The Bible does not use the word homosexuality, but it makes reference to it in both Old and New Testament.
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What the heck is wrong with you "Fundies"? The Bible is a living document.
*Libmode off*
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I didn't mean the OP. As a general statement, however, all have sinful desires. A chaste homosexual can certainly be a true and obedient Christian.
Agreed here. But if they are chaste, are they still a homosexual?
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Agreed here. But if they are chaste, are they still a homosexual?
Of course! You are a heterosexual.Wouldn't you still be a heterosexual if you were chaste? It's what sex one is attracted to I believe!
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I didn't mean the OP. As a general statement, however, all have sinful desires. A chaste homosexual can certainly be a true and obedient Christian.
I would further clarify that by saying a homosexual who has repented of their sin and determined to live their life according to God's Word can be a Christian.
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Agreed here. But if they are chaste, are they still a homosexual?
I would say yes. I base this on the fact that I am an alcoholic. I no longer drink but I am still an alkie.
My view is that God made us the way we are warts and all for a reason. Over coming and resisting some of these faults are God's way of strengthening us, the whole sanctification process. Yes God might have made some people to be homosexuals but that doesn't give a person an excuse to indulge and nurture the behavior. I can offer more evidence that my alcoholism has a genetic basis than a homosexual can give for their homosexuality but that does not excuse me from living out my life as a drunk.
What do I base this on? Paul tells us in
Therefore, in order to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.â€
2 Corinthians 12:7b-9
I know I'm taking this a little out of context but I think it helps make a point. We may be afflicted with sinful desire but that does not give us permission to give in to it. I believe it is the cross we must bear.
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I would say yes. I base this on the fact that I am an alcoholic. I no longer drink but I am still an alkie.
My view is that God made us the way we are warts and all for a reason. Over coming and resisting some of these faults are God's way of strengthening us, the whole sanctification process. Yes God might have made some people to be homosexuals but that doesn't give a person an excuse to indulge and nurture the behavior. I can offer more evidence that my alcoholism has a genetic basis than a homosexual can give for their homosexuality but that does not excuse me from living out my life as a drunk.
What do I base this on? Paul tells us in
2 Corinthians 12:7b-9
I know I'm taking this a little out of context but I think it helps make a point. We may be afflicted with sinful desire but that does not give us permission to give in to it. I believe it is the cross we must bear.
Very well stated. HI-5.
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I would say yes. I base this on the fact that I am an alcoholic. I no longer drink but I am still an alkie.
My view is that God made us the way we are warts and all for a reason. Over coming and resisting some of these faults are God's way of strengthening us, the whole sanctification process. Yes God might have made some people to be homosexuals but that doesn't give a person an excuse to indulge and nurture the behavior. I can offer more evidence that my alcoholism has a genetic basis than a homosexual can give for their homosexuality but that does not excuse me from living out my life as a drunk.
What do I base this on? Paul tells us in
2 Corinthians 12:7b-9
I know I'm taking this a little out of context but I think it helps make a point. We may be afflicted with sinful desire but that does not give us permission to give in to it. I believe it is the cross we must bear.
H5 for your post. Very well stated, and included things I needed to hear personally.
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One of the counter-arguments you will contend with from liberals claim that while the OT condemns homosexuality Jesus did away with the OT and the only NT condemnations come from St. Paul. You will hear the term "Paulianity" tossed around as groups like the Unitarians wallow in Grace and consider themselves unburdened by Law.
So...without citing Paul how would one maintain the prohibition of homosexuality?
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One of the counter-arguments you will contend with from liberals claim that while the OT condemns homosexuality Jesus did away with the OT and the only NT condemnations come from St. Paul. You will hear the term "Paulianity" tossed around as groups like the Unitarians wallow in Grace and consider themselves unburdened by Law.
So...without citing Paul how would one maintain the prohibition of homosexuality?
I find that very interesting they would consider that. Jesus uses Deuteronomy to fight the devil when he is fasting in the wilderness. St. Paul was taught by Jesus for three years in Arabia by Jesus. He has some authority.
This is Jesus speaking to someone.
Matthew 19 KJV
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Leviticus 18 KJV
4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the Lord your God.
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord.
So then God says to Moses to keep and obey all he says. Jesus says to keep the commandments. The Law of Moses which isn't just the 10 says not to lie with a man, not to commit adultery, not to lie with a beast, and many other things. So then you would be able to say that Jesus allows bestiality solely on the fact he never says it out loud. That's the problem with New Testament only churches they only get half of what they should know.
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One of the counter-arguments you will contend with from liberals claim that while the OT condemns homosexuality Jesus did away with the OT and the only NT condemnations come from St. Paul. You will hear the term "Paulianity" tossed around as groups like the Unitarians wallow in Grace and consider themselves unburdened by Law.
So...without citing Paul how would one maintain the prohibition of homosexuality?
"Have you not read, in the beginning He made them male and female..."
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One of the counter-arguments you will contend with from liberals claim that while the OT condemns homosexuality Jesus did away with the OT and the only NT condemnations come from St. Paul. You will hear the term "Paulianity" tossed around as groups like the Unitarians wallow in Grace and consider themselves unburdened by Law.
So...without citing Paul how would one maintain the prohibition of homosexuality?
From what I understand. Jesus didn't "do away" with the OT.He fullfilled it.Paul was an apostle of Christ. You can't take St. Paul out of the equation for you would then be taking Christs message out as well. So if you do that...Well I would come to the conclusion that you are no longer practicing Christianity at that point. Some of what Christ tells us sometimes is hard to hear and follow. But the rules apply to all equally.
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One of the counter-arguments you will contend with from liberals claim that while the OT condemns homosexuality Jesus did away with the OT and the only NT condemnations come from St. Paul. You will hear the term "Paulianity" tossed around as groups like the Unitarians wallow in Grace and consider themselves unburdened by Law.
So...without citing Paul how would one maintain the prohibition of homosexuality?
Jesus reaffirmed marriage as being between a man and a women in Matthew 19:3-9. In defining a marriage as being between a man and a woman and considering that having sex outside the bonds of marriage being forbidden then it is logical to conclude that homosexuality is violation of God's law.