If you send them ... you are a crumb !

[zeitgeist]

FOOD FIGHT !!

DUmmies get down on Moral dilemma of sending your kids to private schools.  This one is a must read.  See the Liberal Hypocrisy in all its glorious splendor as only the DUmp can deliver.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023557352


This is obviously a troll post so it may disappear shortly.

philosslayer (14 posts)

"If you send your kid to private school, you are a bad person"
  

A provocative title, but compelling article. The author states it better than I ever could. This is what happens when we bail on public education instead of giving it our full and enthusiastic support.

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/private_school_vs_public_school_only_bad_people_send_their_kids_to_private.html

I smell a pizza.

Dreamer Tatum (7,739 posts)

1. Unless you are a rich Dem who says nice things about public schools. You forgot that. nt
 
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Response to philosslayer (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 01:53 PM

Donald Ian Rankin (9,945 posts)

2. Nonsense.
 
If you don't support decent levels of taxation to fund public schools, you are a bad person.

If you then choose not to use them, you are arguably *helping* those who do, by increasing the funding per pupil.
 

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Response to Donald Ian Rankin (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 02:01 PM

Star Member frazzled (9,664 posts)

3. I agree it doesn't make you bad, but it doesn't increase the funding per pupil
 

States don't allocate a certain pot of money for education, and then if some people choose not to use the schools, the money gets divided among those left.

States generally allocate funds on a per pupil basis. So fewer kids in the schools, the less total money (though not less per pupil). (Note also that the per pupil allocation is often based on daily attendance; so when schools have a lot of absenteeism, they lose money per kid/per day.)
 

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Response to frazzled (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 02:10 PM

Star Member aikoaiko (16,940 posts)

5. That's true for state funding, but aren't most schools funded through local property taxes?

And an other burst.

Xithras (13,725 posts)

4. If you willingly undermine your childs education for the good of "society", you're an unfit parent.
 

The author herself says "It could take generations. Your children and grandchildren might get mediocre educations in the meantime, but it will be worth it, for the eventual common good."

And on that, I call ten helpings of bullshit. Some of us live in areas with abysmal right-wing public school systems that churn out students barely educated enough to compete with other students from OUR OWN STATE for spots in our public universities. What the author is saying is essentially, "If you live in a poor area and your local school system sucks, you should condemn your child to continue that poverty by denying them an education that will allow them to overcome it...on the off-chance that the system might improve for their grandchildren".

My oldest daughter went through public schools, graduated second in her HS class, and barely squeaked into one of the top UC's in California. Once there, she failed miserably for her first year. Her public school education left her completely unprepared for the rigors and expectations of UC academics. More importantly, when discussing her problems with her friends, she was shocked at how sub-par her academic skills were when she compared them to her friends and roommates who graduated from public high schools in the SF Bay Area or the Los Angeles region. I live in one of the poorest regions in California, and it reflects in the relative quality of our educational system.

Both of my younger children were moved into private schools soon after that. Both struggled to catch up with their classmates right after the transition, but both are doing great now, and both are academically far ahead of their friends who are still in the public school system. And contrary to the authors assertions, I have far more interest in improving our local school systems NOW than I did when my children were actually attending. That check I cut to pay for their private schools is a HUGE motivator to get me active in our local public school district and improve things. The fact that a parent, in my area, has to cut a check to a private school in order to secure a quality education for their child is a travesty. There are many other things that I'd much rather be spending that money on (like paying bills, or going on vacation...which I haven't done in 9 years, or saving for retirement).

As parents, our #1 job is to put our children on the best footing possible to live happy, successful lives. If you increase your child's odds of living in poverty and failing at their life goals by denying them the best education possible, then you are failing them as a parent. It's one thing if you can't afford to give your child a hand up because you don't have the resources, but when you DO have the resources and deny them to your child, you are making the choice to lower your own child's horizons and reduce their opportunities just to make a social statement. I can't even wrap my mind about the thought processes that would lead a parent to make a choice like that.



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Response to Xithras (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 04:52 PM

Goblinmonger (16,488 posts)

26. Private schools are not defacto better.
 

To argue such is silly. Are some private schools better than some public schools? Yes. And vice versa.
 

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 05:08 PM

pnwmom (46,089 posts)

29. No one is making that argument. The person you replied to said that SOME public
 
Last edited Thu Aug 29, 2013, 05:14 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

schools are poor and that good parents are justified in considering alternatives for their children. And that the poster had had such an experience. When s/he realized the oldest child had been so poorly prepared for college, despite being ranked #2 at her high school, s/he put the younger children in private schools. That, and home-schooling, are the only alternatives for people who live in poor public districts and can't move.
 

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 05:31 PM

Xithras (13,725 posts)

35. And I'd never claim that they were.
 
Some private schools are better than some public schools. Some public schools are better than most private schools. All schools are different, and there is no blanket claim that can accurately compare the two.

In my case, the region I live in boasts some of the worst public schools in the state, and is run by a board heavily populated with book banning right wingers. In our case, the private school we found was academically superior to local public schools. Your mileage may vary.  

The character, values, and ethics of DUmmies.

[ChuckJ]

Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #26)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 05:31 PM

Xithras (13,725 posts)

35. And I'd never claim that they were.
 
Some private schools are better than some public schools. Some public schools are better than most private schools. All schools are different, and there is no blanket claim that can accurately compare the two.

In my case, the region I live in boasts some of the worst public schools in the state, and is run by a board heavily populated with book banning right wingers. In our case, the private school we found was academically superior to local public schools. Your mileage may vary. 

While I would agree that the board of education is important, in most cases the ultimate fault for poor education falls on the teacher simply because the teachers are the ones who essentially are the 'boots on the ground'. The teachers are the ones with contact with the students.

The best teachers that I had in school were excellent and effective teachers regardless of who was on the BOE at any particular time.

Of course, this was in the 'old days' when teachers actually focused on teaching academics instead of social/progressive programming. They were teachers who wanted to teach and not indoctrinate. They could do it without air conditioners because they were tough. They could do it with a class full of students of all types from all walks of life because they knew how to discipline. They could do it without books because they had in-depth knowledge of the subject matter and knew how to relate that knowledge to young minds.

There are still some teachers like that today, but sadly, most of them have been replaced by liberals just looking for a paycheck.

[thundley4]

(Note also that the per pupil allocation is often based on daily attendance; so when schools have a lot of absenteeism, they lose money per kid/per day.)

That means that the students that skip class and their parents that let them do it are ultimately responsible for the poor funding of inner city schools.  That is a pretty good argument for allowing the parents that care about their children to get vouchers to send their kids to a better school.

[BlueStateSaint]

I've got The Heiress in a small Catholic school.  Enrollment is down there this year, but from what I was told, it's down at private schools all over--due to the Oconomy.

[miskie]

I've got The Heiress in a small Catholic school.  Enrollment is down there this year, but from what I was told, it's down at private schools all over--due to the Oconomy.

We managed to get our oldest into a charter school via lottery, and from there her siblings won automatic enrollment. Her curriculum compares favorably to the one I had in Catholic school (minus religious ed) without the additional cost - which is a good thing in the miraculous Obama recovery.

[Celtic Rose]

I went to public school my Freshman year of high school.  We had 3000 students in a school built to accommodate 2000.  They were experimenting with education systems, so I was not able to take the biology class that I qualified for, and my mom had to fight really hard to get me into honors English.  We also had a drive by shooting while school was in session. 

That summer my parents moved, and I was accepted into the Catholic School that I had applied for the year before.  I ended up attending an all girl Catholic school that had fewer than 400 students.  I ended up with a truly excellent education, and a lot more personal attention.  I was very prepared for a college level education when I graduated, and they gave me the resources to pass several AP tests, allowing me to test out of college classes.  I am still very thankful that my parents decided to send me to that school. 

[GOBUCKS]

It's amazing that this DUmp thread has gone on for so long without a word from proud2BDUmb Anne Pritchett.
Where has she been?

[Karin]

The article that prompted that thread came from Slate, and it got the Twitchy treatment.  An astoundingly stupid article, particularly this:
 

The author herself says "It could take generations. Your children and grandchildren might get mediocre educations in the meantime, but it will be worth it, for the eventual common good."

    Common good.

Some of the DUmmies responses surprised me, as I thought they'd be in line with the likes of Ann Pritchett and Madfloridian, loyal to public schools no matter what. 

[vesta111]

I went to public school my Freshman year of high school.  We had 3000 students in a school built to accommodate 2000.  They were experimenting with education systems, so I was not able to take the biology class that I qualified for, and my mom had to fight really hard to get me into honors English.  We also had a drive by shooting while school was in session. 

That summer my parents moved, and I was accepted into the Catholic School that I had applied for the year before.  I ended up attending an all girl Catholic school that had fewer than 400 students.  I ended up with a truly excellent education, and a lot more personal attention.  I was very prepared for a college level education when I graduated, and they gave me the resources to pass several AP tests, allowing me to test out of college classes.  I am still very thankful that my parents decided to send me to that school. 

Surprise, check out the students attending public schools and look for the male and female students attending wearing a head covering.   Very few, the thousands of Muslim children attend their own schools, only the poorest of the poor Muslim family's put their children in public schools because they fear the Westernisation of their children.

I will say these kids impress me, I would like to know what and how they are taught to make so many females go into the professional fields of Medicine and Law.  Speak 3-4 languages and ----stay out of trouble.

What is their culture doing that we do not do to help our children...   Perhaps it is to scare the kids with " your father, brother or uncle will kill you that is not an idol threat, they mean it.

[Wineslob]

I'm trying to figure out when the public school system became Right Wing and banned books. 

[Big Don]

Larry Corriea, author of the Monster Hunter novels did a fisking of this idiot's article:
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2013/08/30/fisking-slate-over-public-schools/

[98ZJUSMC]

I'm trying to figure out when the public school system became Right Wing and banned books. 

That's a new one on me, too.

Some of us live in areas with abysmal right-wing public school systems that churn out students barely educated enough to compete with other students from OUR OWN STATE for spots in our public universities.

...and you're as full of shit as a Christmas Goose.

[miskie]

I'm trying to figure out when the public school system became Right Wing and banned books. 

I suspect it became 'Right-Wing' the moment people started to question why it is failing. - Like how Detroit is now a city destroyed by 'Right Wing' policies.