Phoenix lander confirms ice in Martian soil

[Wretched Excess]

Phoenix lander confirms ice in Martian soil

LOS ANGELES (AP) — The Phoenix spacecraft has tasted Martian water for the first time. The robot heated up ice in one of its instruments earlier this week. Scientists say the chemical test confirms the presence of ice near the Martian north pole.

Until now, the evidence for ice has been circumstantial. That was based on photos Phoenix took of a hard splotchy area near its landing site and changes it saw in a trench.

Phoenix landed in the Martian arctic on May 25 on a three-month digging mission. NASA on Thursday said it was extending the mission another two months.
Story

[Lord Undies]

Let's drill and see if there is any oil so we can put this "fossil fuel" myth to bed.

[RightCoast]

Let's drill and see if there is any oil so we can put this "fossil fuel" myth to bed.

Is that the "we're going to run out of oil" myth?

[JohnnyReb]

Let's drill and see if there is any oil so we can put this "fossil fuel" myth to bed.

What was it? Some fellow theorized that calcified rock deep in the earths crust, under pressure, rubbing againist other rocks produce oil? Anyway, something like that and a lab experiment proved him right. ....SO DRILL DAMMIT, DRILL NANCY!

.....NO, NO NANCY I DIDN'T MEAN THAT KINDDA DRLLING.

[Lord Undies]

Let's drill and see if there is any oil so we can put this "fossil fuel" myth to bed.

Is that the "we're going to run out of oil" myth?

No.  The myth that oil is dead dinosaur juice. 

[Happy Fun Ball]

Rush today talked about how they found certain components of crude oil (ethane) in liquid form on Titan.

[RightCoast]

Let's drill and see if there is any oil so we can put this "fossil fuel" myth to bed.

Is that the "we're going to run out of oil" myth?

No.  The myth that oil is dead dinosaur juice. 

I think they say dead plant juice now, that's how they explain why we keep finding more - not less.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Well, in other space news, there are apparently lakes of ethane on Titan, but it's kind of difficult to pipe it back here.

[Lord Undies]

Let's drill and see if there is any oil so we can put this "fossil fuel" myth to bed.

Is that the "we're going to run out of oil" myth?

No.  The myth that oil is dead dinosaur juice. 

I think they say dead plant juice now, that's how they explain why we keep finding more - not less.

That explains it!  And all these years I have worried myself sick about all the dinosaurs who drowned in the ancient ocean which once covered Texas.  I could never understand how so many of the creatures met up in such a hostile environment.

[thundley4]

Well, in other space news, there are apparently lakes of ethane on Titan, but it's kind of difficult to pipe it back here.

But wouldn't that prove that hydrocarbons aren't from dead animals?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Well, in other space news, there are apparently lakes of ethane on Titan, but it's kind of difficult to pipe it back here.

But wouldn't that prove that hydrocarbons aren't from dead animals?

I don't pretend to any expertise in petrochemistry, but the discovery does seem to supply a thread of support to the inorganic-origin-of-oil guys.  Actual crude involves much more complex hydrocarbons than methane and ethane, though, which is probably where the organic-origin guys would come back on it (though I'd think that exotic enough conditions like heat and pressure great depth could polymerize simple hydrocarbons into much more complex ones over time). 

[Airwolf]

I guess i'm the dumb one here but I seem to remember way back in the 1960's that they already had film or pictures of Mars with changing polar ice caps so why the surprise about finding water there?

[Lord Undies]

I guess i'm the dumb one here but I seem to remember way back in the 1960's that they already had film or pictures of Mars with changing polar ice caps so why the surprise about finding water there?

I remember it being in the Weekly Reader during elementary school.  I think the story was that NASA thought the photos maybe of polar ice but they could not confirm it.  It was noted that the "ice caps" grew and receded throughout the Martian year, just as they do on earth.

[RightCoast]

I guess i'm the dumb one here but I seem to remember way back in the 1960's that they already had film or pictures of Mars with changing polar ice caps so why the surprise about finding water there?

It's confirming water that is so exciting.

water=life

water on mars=water on other plantes.

that's my $0.02

[Wretched Excess]

I guess i'm the dumb one here but I seem to remember way back in the 1960's that they already had film or pictures of Mars with changing polar ice caps so why the surprise about finding water there?

maybe it isn't surprise.  maybe it's actually relief, because they spent about a billion dollars confirming it

[DumbAss Tanker]

Back in the day they weren't sure it was water ice, and there was considered to be a large possibility that it was just frozen CO2.

[jinxmchue]

It's confirming water that is so exciting.

Whoop-dee-shiznit.

water=life

Three words: The Dead Sea.

Three more words: Arctic and Antarctic.

water on mars=water on other plantes.

So does a tattoo on my butt mean the same tattoo is on your butt?  (No, I don't really have a tattoo on my butt.)

that's my $0.02

Seems more like you have $0.01 in one pocket and are jumping to the conclusion that you have another in your other pocket.
[/quote]

[Chris_]

I guess i'm the dumb one here but I seem to remember way back in the 1960's that they already had film or pictures of Mars with changing polar ice caps so why the surprise about finding water there?

maybe it isn't surprise.  maybe it's actually relief, because they spent about a billion dollars confirming it

However, the prevailing theory at that time was that the ice was "dry ice"......frozen CO2............

doc

[RightCoast]

jinxmchue Wrote

Whoop-dee-shiznit.

Do I know you?

Three words: The Dead Sea.

Hypersaline lakes support microbes, maybe there are no fish but that does not mean there is no life, if that confuses your big brain we can go into more detail later.

Three more words: Arctic and Antarctic.

Are you stating there is no life in/at/under the arctic - antarctic?  Sweet. 

So does a tattoo on my butt mean the same tattoo is on your butt?  (No, I don't really have a tattoo on my butt.)

I could give a rats *** about your butt and anything that you put on or in it.  My point is that the presence of water ice means there was once very likely liquid water on mars 1) water ice means we do not have to bring water with us when we go 2)proving there is water ice on another planet increases the probability that there is water ice or LIQUID water elsewhere in the universe.

Seems more like you have $0.01 in one pocket and are jumping to the conclusion that you have another in your other pocket.

At least I'm not a wannabeknowitall.

[Airedale]

The White House is Briefed: Phoenix About to Announce "Potential For Life" on Mars

.....


It would appear that the US President has been briefed by Phoenix scientists about the discovery of something more "provocative" than the discovery of water existing on the Martian surface.

......


So why is there all this secrecy? According to scientists in communication with Aviation Week & Space Technology, the next big discovery will need to be mulled over for a while before it is announced to the world. In fact, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory science team for the MECA wet-chemistry instrument that made these undisclosed findings were kept out of the July 31st news conference (confirming water) so additional analysis could be carried out, avoiding any questions that may have revealed their preliminary results. They have also made the decision to discuss the results with the Bush Administration's Presidential Science Advisor's office before a press conference between mid-August and early September.


.......

These new MECA results are, according to the Phoenix team, a little more complex than the water "discovery." Scientists are keen to point out however, that this secretive news will in no way indicate the existence of life (past or present) on Mars; Phoenix simply is not equipped make this discovery. What it can do is test the Mars soil for compounds suitable to support life. The MECA instrument does have microscopes capable of resolving bacterial-scale life forms however, but this is not the focus of the forthcoming announcement, sources say.

......


http://www.universetoday.com/2008/08/02/the-white-house-is-briefed-phoenix-about-to-announce-potential-for-life-on-mars/

more "cloak and dagger" info at the link.
 but;

The MECA instrument does have microscopes capable of resolving bacterial-scale life forms... makes me wonder if the rock found in Antarctica with its strange squiggly life form marks may have been duplicated or also discovered on mars?

dunno

better wait until mid august/eary september for an answer

[Wretched Excess]

The White House is Briefed: Phoenix About to Announce "Potential For Life" on Mars

.....


It would appear that the US President has been briefed by Phoenix scientists about the discovery of something more "provocative" than the discovery of water existing on the Martian surface.

......


So why is there all this secrecy? According to scientists in communication with Aviation Week & Space Technology, the next big discovery will need to be mulled over for a while before it is announced to the world. In fact, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory science team for the MECA wet-chemistry instrument that made these undisclosed findings were kept out of the July 31st news conference (confirming water) so additional analysis could be carried out, avoiding any questions that may have revealed their preliminary results. They have also made the decision to discuss the results with the Bush Administration's Presidential Science Advisor's office before a press conference between mid-August and early September.


.......

These new MECA results are, according to the Phoenix team, a little more complex than the water "discovery." Scientists are keen to point out however, that this secretive news will in no way indicate the existence of life (past or present) on Mars; Phoenix simply is not equipped make this discovery. What it can do is test the Mars soil for compounds suitable to support life. The MECA instrument does have microscopes capable of resolving bacterial-scale life forms however, but this is not the focus of the forthcoming announcement, sources say.

......


http://www.universetoday.com/2008/08/02/the-white-house-is-briefed-phoenix-about-to-announce-potential-for-life-on-mars/

more "cloak and dagger" info at the link.

they found jimmy hoffa!


 

[jinxmchue]

they found jimmy hoffa!


 

No wonder they could never find his body.  The mob shipped it to Mars!  Hoffa's sleepin' with the Martians!

[Wretched Excess]

they found jimmy hoffa!


 

No wonder they could never find his body.  The mob shipped it to Mars!  Hoffa's sleepin' with the Martians!

[jinxmchue]

Hypersaline lakes support microbes, maybe there are no fish but that does not mean there is no life, if that confuses your big brain we can go into more detail later.

But even those microbes are very sparse.  The salinity simply is not conducive to life.

Are you stating there is no life in/at/under the arctic - antarctic?  Sweet.

 

Are you stating there is possibly life under the Martian ice?  And yes, the ice itself is pretty dead.

I could give a rats *** about your butt and anything that you put on or in it.  My point is that the presence of water ice means there was once very likely liquid water on mars 1) water ice means we do not have to bring water with us when we go 2)proving there is water ice on another planet increases the probability that there is water ice or LIQUID water elsewhere in the universe.

Just because there is liquid water does not mean there is life, as you so nonchalantly put it ("water = life").  How do you know even if water is essential for other forms of life in the universe?  You're and every other "there's life out there" nutcase are basing your views on what you see here on Earth.  If there is life elsewhere, it isn't going to be anything like us or any other creature on Earth.

At least I'm not a wannabeknowitall.

"Water = life."

[RightCoast]

But even those microbes are very sparse.  The salinity simply is not conducive to life.

True, but never the less life is there.

Are you stating there is possibly life under the Martian ice?  And yes, the ice itself is pretty dead.

Yes there is a possibility that there is life in one form or another under the martian ice, I personally don't think it's very likely.  But again proving that ice was there was worth a lot of money to the government.  And there is a lot of life under our ice.   

Just because there is liquid water does not mean there is life, as you so nonchalantly put it ("water = life").  How do you know even if water is essential for other forms of life in the universe?  You're and every other "there's life out there" nutcase are basing your views on what you see here on Earth.  If there is life elsewhere, it isn't going to be anything like us or any other creature on Earth.

Used to be the very smart people thought there had to be a perfect trifecta of sun light, water and oxygen to make "life."  Scientists were looking for "earthlike" planets a certain distance from stars of a certain size.  It has now been shown that all you need is water and food.  The planet itself (under the dead arctic no less) produces the food in the form of superheated vents letting chemical compounds into the water.  Water = Life.  Once we have ice theoretically all we need is volcanic activity under the ice and you never know what will result.

And based on the numbers of planet that are being found it is the "we are all freaking alone" crowd that are the nutcases.

BTW I never said there are going to be people or zebras running around the solar system, with the right building blocks I believe it is possible for microbial life to take shape.  Who's to say wether or not it will go anywhere or what ultimate form it might take based on the environmental conditions of the planet of origin.