Dummies & GM payoff

[zeitgeist]

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a Bailout today.  Wimpy or GM ??




It is fun to watch as the dummies high five and sing a few choruses of "How Great Obama Art" before a gleam of truth crashes it like the Hindenburg

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8188623

gulliver  (1000+ posts)        Wed Apr-21-10 12:21 PM
Original message
GM pays off its bailout loans
 Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 12:22 PM by gulliver

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/21/autos/gm_loan_repayment...

This is very good economic news. Dems should be taking their much-deserved credit for this. The article notes that the loans are not the whole story as we also bought up a bunch of GM with federal money. But this loan payoff is a big step in the right direction. Maybe their management has finally begun to move in the right direction. Dems, take a bow, IMO.
 

Hit the lights, cue the music, Take a bow Barry !!

Cresent City Kid  (865 posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. On bailouts in general
 The "big" story is when the government hands out the money. We've been getting a lot of it back with little fanfare. Some people think we lost it all forever.
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Oh dear, someone must have lobbed one of those Organic Tomatoes!!

Name removed (0 posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Deleted sub-thread
 Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Don't fear dear reader, GM and Dear Leader have lots of supporters!!

 
 B Calm  (1000+ posts)        Wed Apr-21-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. The greatest thing about this LOAN 
 it saved thousands and thousands of manufacturing jobs here in the United States!
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

But wait, up pops yet another Ethiopian in the fuel source

 Hannah Bell (1000+ posts)        Wed Apr-21-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. yeah, non-union, $14/hr ones.

 Edited on Wed Apr-21-10 03:15 PM by Hannah Bell
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


the gov't colluded with gm to screw its retirees & workers.
 

May we quote you here Kentuck

kentuck  (1000+ posts)        Wed Apr-21-10 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. Shouldn't some loudmouth conservatives be apologizing ?? 
 How many were on your TV ranting about that "socialist" Obama taking over the car companies. Well, it looks like they were wrong. Shouldn't they apologize for their inaccurate and inflammatory comments? 

Well Shazzam, a pizza hungry noob utters some truth to stoopid.

leeloo (35 posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. They have not paid off the loan,still owe $44 billion..n/t
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
 

Drainbramaged says it all, the post is a laugh riot

 DainBramaged  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. The US Government owns appx. $44 billion in stock
 They paid off the loan, sorry to disappoint you.

But wait.....

Right back at ya drainbramage

leeloo (35 posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. When stocks are sold later this,let's see how much they fetch.
 Who is going to be stupid enough to buy stock in a company losing a billion dollars every month?.
If we recoup the $44 billion later this year,then i will agree they have paid back the loan..

 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Aptly named, drainbramage doesn't know when he has been pawned

DainBramaged  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I didn't ask you to agree to anything
 move along nothing to see here, this isn't a thread about toYOYOta. PS, I bought stock in GM and Ford, sold them both and am waiting to buy both again. So I guess I and the thousands of other UAW members are stupid? 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Stoopid is as stoopid does.  Drain   Stoopid is as stoopid does.

leeloo (35 posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Wow you get grumpy when people disagree with you...PS
 I just bought stock in Ferrari and married a supermodel.. 
 

 

leeloo (35 posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. GM has not made a profit so far..Guess who paid off the loan?
 The Taxpayer..
They borrowed it from another TARP program,one credit card paying off the other credit card scenario..
As the company is losing billions who would buy stock from them ??
OH lets borrow $44 billion more to buy stocks in GM,its a shell game...DUH
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Now how does this work?

dmallind  (1000+ posts)      Thu Apr-22-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. You don't need to make a profit to have cash. Cite your source. NT
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Who's mole is leeloo? Will that be a Loaded House with Anchovies?

leeloo (35 posts)      Thu Apr-22-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. They don't have cash,they have our money...
 Chief Says G.M. Is on Road to Profits

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/business/07auto.html

GM expects to show annual profit in 2011
The company's financial adviser, Evercore Partners, offered projections for GM's finances in its bankruptcy case based on several scenarios. It forecasts that GM will lose $17.5 billion this year before reaching a profit of $3 billion in 2011 before taxes, rising to $7.8 billion in 2014.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7764180&page=1


GM’s Whitacre Says He ‘Hopes’ to Report a 2010 Profit

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aiZ...



Google GM annual profits...


So if they have cash where do you think they got it from?
I will tell you, from us they are paying us back a small percentage of the loan we gave them..

 Yeah but I still don't care it is them darn Freepers, yeah that's the ticket.

B Calm  (1000+ posts)        Wed Apr-21-10 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I think it's lurking freepers unrec. this thread!
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

Ok fine

NotThisTime (1000+ posts)     Wed Apr-21-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. This is very good news....
 
 Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top

 SmileyRose (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
29. They used stimulus money to pay off the loan
 Big f**king deal.........

My, my, my. Kentuck, how say ye this kettle of fish??  I think it stinkith from the head down.

 

[Tucker]

DainBramaged  (1000+ posts)      Wed Apr-21-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I didn't ask you to agree to anything
 move along nothing to see here,

Hey brainless. Did you put leeloo on ignore like you did to me?

[jukin]

It truly is amazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing how a company that has lost over a billion dollars is able to pay back  eight billion.

I'm sure that it has nothing to do with the fact GM borrowed another nine billion from the TARP fund.


This, my friends, is how the loony left looks at business.

[NHSparky]

And now the FTC is looking into this.  DUmmie heads are a-splodin everywhere.

[GOBUCKS]

dmallind  (1000+ posts)      Thu Apr-22-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. You don't need to make a profit to have cash.

You just get it from the muslim's stash.

[zeitgeist]

You just get it from the muslim's stash.

You don't need to have no cash
you just get it from the muslim's stash.

Gobucks u a rhymin fool
But talkin muslim
jus aint kool
dummies they talk
shuck an jive
now give Teh Wun a big
 

 

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Liberals: They Happily Believe ANYTHING You Tell Them

Still Government Motors
Shikha Dalmia, 04.23.10, 3:40 PM ET

GM CEO Ed Whitacre announced in a Wall Street Journal column Wednesday that his company has paid back its government bailout loan "in full, with interest, years ahead of schedule." He is even running TV ads on all major networks to that effect--a needless expense given that a credulous media is only too happy to parrot his claims for free. Detroit Free Press' Mike Thompson, for example, advises bailout proponents to start "warming up their vocal chords" to jeer their opponents with chants of "I told you so."

But before belting out their victory aria, GM-boosters ought to hear the whole story--not just the fairytale version about Government Motors' grand comeback that Mr. Whitacre is feeding them.

Uncle Sam gave GM $49.5 billion last summer in aid to finance its bankruptcy. (If it hadn't, the company, which couldn't raise this kind of money from private lenders, would have been forced into liquidation, its assets sold for scrap.) So when Mr. Whitacre publishes a column with the headline, "The GM Bailout: Paid Back in Full," most ordinary mortals unfamiliar with bailout minutia would assume that he is alluding to the entire $49.5 billion. That, however, is far from the case.

Because a loan of such a huge amount would have been politically controversial, the Obama administration handed GM only $6.7 billion as a pure loan. (It asked for only a 7% interest rate--a very sweet deal considering that GM bonds at that time were trading below junk level.) The vast bulk of the bailout money was transferred to GM through the purchase of 60.8% equity stake in the company--arguably an even worse deal for taxpayers than the loan, given that the equity position requires them to bear the risk of the investment without any guaranteed return. (The Canadian government likewise gave GM $1.4 billion as a pure loan, and another $8.1 billion for an 11.7% equity stake. The U.S. and Canadian government together own 72.5% of the company.)

But when Mr. Whitacre says GM has paid back the bailout money in full, he means not the entire $49.5 billion--the loan and the equity. In fact, he avoids all mention of that figure in his column. He means only the $6.7 billion loan amount.

But wait! Even that's not the full story given that GM, which has not yet broken even, much less turned a profit, can't pay even this puny amount from its own earnings.

So how is it paying it?

As it turns out, the Obama administration put $13.4 billion of the aid money as "working capital" in an escrow account when the company was in bankruptcy. The company is using this escrow money--government money--to pay back the government loan.

GM claims that the fact that it is even using the escrow money to pay back the loan instead of using it all to shore itself up shows that it is on the road to recovery. That actually would be a positive development--although hardly one worth hyping in ads and columns--if it were not for a further plot twist.

Sean McAlinden, chief economist at the Ann Arbor-based Center for Automotive Research, points out that the company has applied to the Department of Energy for $10 billion in low (5%) interest loan to retool its plants to meet the government's tougher new CAFÉ (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards. However, giving GM more taxpayer money on top of the existing bailout would have been a political disaster for the Obama administration and a PR debacle for the company. Paying back the small bailout loan makes the new--and bigger--DOE loan much more feasible.

In short, GM is using government money to pay back government money to get more government money. And at a 2% lower interest rate at that. This is a nifty scheme to refinance GM's government debt--not pay it back!

GM boasts that, because it is doing so well, it is paying the $6.7 billion five years ahead of schedule since it was not due until 2015. So will there be an accelerated payback of the rest of the $49.6 billion investment? No. That goal has been pushed back, as it turns out.

In order to recover that investment, the government has to sell its equity. It plans to do that only when GM becomes a publicly traded company once again. GM was hoping to turn a profit by the end of 2010 and float an initial public offering this winter. However, GM Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell, when queried about that timeline a few days ago, demurred. The offering will be made, he said, "when the markets and the company are ready."

(Take that, taxpayers!)

The reality is that there is no certainty that GM will ever be able to make taxpayers whole. Some analysts such as Center for Automotive Research's Sean McAlinden and Global Insight's George Magliano believe that it will--eventually. McAlinden maintains that this will happen when the company's market capitalization touches $60 billion. (At GM's peak in 2000, this level was only $57 billion.) This is a challenging but not an impossible goal--provided the economy does not dip into another recession, he maintains. Magliano too maintains that the company will be able to pay back taxpayers if the industry is able to ramp up annual vehicle sales from the expected 10.8 million this year to 17 million in 2014 and GM captures 20% of these sales.

The General Accountability Office, on the other hand, remains deeply pessimistic. It concluded in a December report (which a more recent April report has said nothing to contradict, despite media spin to the contrary) that: "The Treasury is unlikely to recover the entirety of its investment in Chrysler or GM, given that the companies' values would have to grow substantially more than they have in the past."

Mr. Whitacre's bailout payback ploy is a desperate attempt to win back the car-buying public deeply disgusted by the spectacle of GM rattling its tin-cup before Uncle Sam. But the fact of the matter is that the company is still deep in the hole. It might claw its way back – or it might not. But surely it's premature for its media boosters to pop open the champagne bottle without getting their story straight?

Shikha Dalmia is a senior analyst at Reason Foundation and a biweekly Forbes columnist

http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/23/general-motors-economy-bailout-opinions-columnists-shikha-dalmia_print.html

[zeitgeist]

Second verse from DUmmy land:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8219760

Prism  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 01:30 PM
Original message
How GM scammed us on "repayment" as it asks for more of your money.
 This is depressing. You remember the breathless announcements two weeks ago. GM was repaying its loan! Proof bailouts work!

Not so much. That "repayment" was nothing of the kind - and it is the first step in milking American taxpayers for even more. Read the deception and weep:
 
{snip}

To keep it simple this is a little bigger bondfire than the first. 


Noobie leeloo gets in a shot of righteous indignation but it falls rather flat. 

leeloo (71 posts)      Mon Apr-26-10 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. i was saying this last week but i presume because i am a newbie i
 got thrashed for my comments...

I suggest reading the entire thread au natural if you have the time and stomach.  Dummies have an interesting take on things like markets, profit and loss, government intervention, nationalization.  Clearly their ancestors were the ones who sold Manhattan for rose colored glasses and some beads.

It won't be long before they start trumpeting how teh Wun has made Light Rail run on time..........

[longview]

Thanks for the good information on this.  When a co-worker started cheering the pay back, common sense told me things didn't add up. 

[dandi]

Sub-thread got deleted. Someone must have dumped a bucket of cold reality-water on them.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Second verse from DUmmy land:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8219760

I suggest reading the entire thread au natural if you have the time and stomach.  Dummies have an interesting take on things like markets, profit and loss, government intervention, nationalization...

quickesst (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
48. This....
 ...."Whether or not the government turns a profit remains to be seen. It's a giant question mark, and I don't think anyone can claim the likelihood of either with any certainty. I lean towards the idea that we'll lose money, but recognize I could be wrong."

..should have been the first line in your op.
"He could have done this, and this seems wrong, and he did this when we thought he would do that, and it doesn't seem to be good, and I don't think it might be good in the future, "BUT, I COULD BE WRONG".

What can I do about this now? What can you do about this now? Well, other than post on this board an opinion that is exactly that, an opinion. Why not wait until we see if this administrations actions actually play out in favor of the taxpayers, or if it's a boondoggle? I'll wait and see. Thanks.
quickesst

Borrowing other people's children's money on a gamble that no self-respecting lending institution would (or legally could) touch because GM and the unions had driven themselves into the ground.

OHdem10 (1000+ posts)       Mon Apr-26-10 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. We own stock. Hopefully whomever is in charge of transactions
 will sell the stock off at profit. We can still come
out ahead.

YES WE CAN!

I hope.

This is a cute little exchange:

LuckyTheDog (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. Well -- kinda sorta... but you don't understand long-term investing
 Maybe it's true that "GM would need to be worth $70 billion at IPO for taxpayers to break even."

But that is ONLY true if the government needs to break AT THE IPO STAGE. It doesn't. The government could hang on to some -- or most-- of its shares longer. If it does that, there is a good chance most of the money will be made back. The government might even make a pretty decent return.

The government did not buy into GM as speculation. The goal here should not be to quickly "flip" GM. If the Treasury looks at GM as a long-term investment and is patient, it can and should make a decent return on its investment.

 

Statistical (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-26-10 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
52. Except the govt BORROWED money to invest in GM.
 Thus the true return is final sales price - amount lent - accumulated interest.

 

Prism  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. Remember buying stocks on margin?
 Good times.

Prism and Statistical are bailing against the tides of stupid.

LuckyTheDog (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
32. Ummmm ... equity is not a loan
 The company cannot "repay" the equity investment. The government needs to SELL THE STOCK. And it will. If the government sells the stock over time (instead of all at once) it is likely to make a profit on it.
Woof!

 

Lone_Star_Dem  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Yep. That's the theory
 Had quite a funny conversation this past weekend when I smacked a winger/bagger upside their hateful head with that one. The had no idea what equity was and argued it translated to gift. 

The exactly what was all the BS about repaying the loan if it never was a loan.

KEEP YOUR @#$%ING STORIES STRAIGHT!!!

Now we come to a classic case of: When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the law is on your side, pound the law. When you have neither...pound a foreign car company...

DainBramaged  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-26-10 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Gee I'd like to know why Toyota hid the facts on unintended acceleration that killed over 50 people
 that pisses me off way more than your supposed money manipulation....

Here, take these facts and laws and pound them:

GM Battles to Withhold Safety Secrets
Thomas B. Scheffey

The Connecticut Law Tribune

March 09, 2010

It's a potentially explosive lawsuit focusing on the safety record of a major automaker. And it has nothing to do with Toyota.

A small army of defense lawyers for once-mighty General Motors is battling in Connecticut court to seal court documents that indicate that poorly designed seat backs may have led to numerous deaths and injuries.

The case stems from a products liability lawsuit filed by Stamford lawyer Brenden Leydon, of Tooher, Wocl & Leydon, on behalf of a Stamford waitress who was severely injured in an accident. On New Year's Eve, the woman's products liability case against Saturn of Stamford took a dramatic turn when Leydon attached six memos to a motion to add four former GM safety employees as defendants.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202445939602

RoyGBiv  (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #44
53. Your complaint is with DU ...
 
... for the most part. With a few notable exceptions, DU is not the place to find substantive commentary, much less discussion, on economics issues...

 

ecstatic (1000+ posts)        Mon Apr-26-10 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
50. We should all go out and buy Toyotas!!1
 That will teach GM and the government a lesson they'll never forget!!1

You people despised Bush because he was a Christian so you sided with Muslims out of spite.

Obamanaut  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-26-10 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
51. I guess the important thing to take away from this is that we are
 Edited on Mon Apr-26-10 10:12 PM by Obamanaut
being screwed by an American automaker rather than some offshore out of country entity.

I'm sure that's snark but what he really means is: Obama did it so **** the law and anybody else who dares to care.

high density  (1000+ posts)      Mon Apr-26-10 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
55. Do people want higher CAFE standards or not?
 This simply isn't going to happen without government money given the pain the autos are currently in.

 
Fascism: it's how we get what we want

[Wineslob]

And there you have the perfect reason why GM should have been sold as scrap.

[DumbAss Tanker]

And there you have the perfect reason why GM should have been sold as scrap.

Years and years from even breaking even, really.  Except I imagine the Oministration will try to sodomize the vehicle standards to make the Volt artificially saleable by forcing up the price of more useful cars and hydrocarbon fuel so far that it may only take them five years to turn a profit instead of ten-to-never.

[AllosaursRus]

GM is screwed, screwed, screwed, as far as any Red Blooded American is concerned! They dug their own grave! Too bad the Bummer stopped the market from shoveling the dirt into the hole!

This is one consumer that will never again buy a GM or Chrysler auto. If you can't run your business for profit, have to take my money in order to keep from drowning, what confidence am I supposed to have on a two ton bullet you manufacture? ESAD! That's what should have happened in the first place!

Would have gone a long way toward dissolving the choke hold the unions have on manufacturing in this country. Can anyone name anything we manufacture from the ground up in this country any more? (chirp, chirp) Oh that's right, I think we manufacture about 20% of the weed the DUmbasses smoke on a daily basis!

Even parts for "the Bummer's" "Green Jobs" are manufactured 70% overseas! The stupid prick!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

GM is screwed, screwed, screwed, as far as any Red Blooded American is concerned! They dug their own grave! Too bad the Bummer stopped the market from shoveling the dirt into the hole!

Obama got everything he wanted out of this:

* steal taxpayer money from an already misguided TARP fund for a bailout with no legal authority

* the money drives us deeper into ChiCom obligation

* abrogate the legal rights of primary lien holders

* give the unions a bump from a 10% stake to a 35% stake by diktat

* keep unions firmly loyal to dems for the foreseeable future

* bring government harrassment against all non-government controlled automakers, either legally of taxpayer subsidized subterfuge

* the case precedent to do it all over again, any time he sees fit, to anyone who dares to even look askance

As a piece of despotism its near perfect in its planning and execution.

[AllosaursRus]

Obama got everything he wanted out of this:

* steal taxpayer money from an already misguided TARP fund for a bailout with no legal authority

* the money drives us deeper into ChiCom obligation

* abrogate the legal rights of primary lien holders

* give the unions a bump from a 10% stake to a 35% stake by diktat

* keep unions firmly loyal to dems for the foreseeable future

* bring government harrassment against all non-government controlled automakers, either legally of taxpayer subsidized subterfuge

* the case precedent to do it all over again, any time he sees fit, to anyone who dares to even look askance

As a piece of despotism its near perfect in its planning and execution.

If we can keep stalling 'ol "Self Appointed Important" until Nov, we might just make him a lame dick! not misspelled, btw, just in case you're wonderin'. Won't make ma Belle very happy, but I'll laugh all the way to the bank!

[zeitgeist]

Obama got everything he wanted out of this:

* steal taxpayer money from an already misguided TARP fund for a bailout with no legal authority

* the money drives us deeper into ChiCom obligation

* abrogate the legal rights of primary lien holders

* give the unions a bump from a 10% stake to a 35% stake by diktat

* keep unions firmly loyal to dems for the foreseeable future
* bring government harrassment against all non-government controlled automakers, either legally of taxpayer subsidized subterfuge

* the case precedent to do it all over again, any time he sees fit, to anyone who dares to even look askance

As a piece of despotism its near perfect in its planning and execution.

You are doing yeoman's work here Mr Snuggle Bunny.   And I know the rank and file union members are stump post stupid, but don't you think the will catch on eventually?  I mean this deal is so blatant they are bound to catch on eventually, right?  The stock is pretty much worthless and their pensions are going to end up in the PBGC fund which will really redistribute some middle class wealth!!

BTW my beagle has been a little down, think I will show her your avatar to see if she perks up.

[AllosaursRus]

You are doing yeoman's work here Mr Snuggle Bunny.   And I know the rank and file union members are stump post stupid, but don't you think the will catch on eventually?  I mean this deal is so blatant they are bound to catch on eventually, right?  The stock is pretty much worthless and their pensions are going to end up in the PBGC fund which will really redistribute some middle class wealth!!

BTW my beagle has been a little down, think I will show her your avatar to see if she perks up.

If they get to 35%, well, I think y'all know the answer to that one. Take a look at the SEIU!

Oh, and I highly recommend showing the Avatar. Works wonders with my Bassets!

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

You are doing yeoman's work here Mr Snuggle Bunny...

But I'm in the Army.

 

[DumbAss Tanker]

But I'm in the Army.

 

Yeah, you tell 'em...just 'cause you're noncommissioned doesn't mean you're petty!

 

[AllosaursRus]

Yeah, you tell 'em...just 'cause you're noncommissioned doesn't mean you're petty!

 

just under paid!

[The Village Idiot]

Years and years from even breaking even, really.  Except I imagine the Oministration will try to sodomize the vehicle standards to make the Volt artificially saleable by forcing up the price of more useful cars and hydrocarbon fuel so far that it may only take them five years to turn a profit instead of ten-to-never.

Taxpayers are going to end up losing money on every GM auto sold for a decade. GM will continue to recieve more and more government money from you, whether it sells a car or not.
Hey another $10 Billion for retooling, hey, who's counting?

[AllosaursRus]

Taxpayers are going to end up losing money on every GM auto sold for a decade. GM will continue to recieve more and more government money from you, whether it sells a car or not.
Hey another $10 Billion for retooling, hey, who's counting?

I think this moron has awakened a sleeping giant! 'Bout time the American people said "enough"! I been pullin' my hair out since the Clintoon cartoon! Ever see the count of the conservatives in this country that don't bother to visit the voting booth? It's disgusting!

Maybe, just maybe, they have a clue!