The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: USA4ME on January 10, 2011, 12:44:56 PM
-
Laelth
A Golden Opportunity for the Right: Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhetoric
January 10, 2011
The tragic shooting of Gabrielle Giffords provides conservative pundits and politicians a golden opportunity to take the high road and condemn the violent, hateful rhetoric that encourages political assassination attempts of the kind we recently witnessed in Arizona. It doesn’t matter whether the shooter was a left-wing nut or a right-wing nut, and make no mistake, Jared Loughner is a nut, as his YouTube videos demonstrate. The right thing to do under these circumstances is to condemn the reckless rhetoric that creates a climate in which it’s inevitable that a nut will eventually act out in a way that leads to the deaths of innocent people.
Because the intended victim was a Democrat, Democrats and left-leaning pundits can not lead on this subject in this environment. Any thing they say about the hateful, violent rhetoric that passes for political discourse in the United States these days will be automatically condemned as purely political posturing. These kinds of accusations have already been leveled. No. Right now, in this environment, only Republicans and right-leaning political commentators have the opportunity to do the right thing—and that would be to make every effort to reign in the rhetoric that leads nuts like Loughner to exercise their 2nd Amendment remedies. Seriously, how hard would it be for conservative politicians and pundits to admit that violent, hateful rhetoric creates a climate that invites tragedy? How hard would it be for the "adults" among us to universally condemn the rhetoric that leads to this kind of tragedy? Wouldn't that be the responsible thing to do?
To her credit, Sarah Palin quickly scrubbed her website and pulled down the graphic that had rifle-scope cross-hairs pointed directly at Gabrielle Giffords’ House district in Arizona. Her doing so constitutes an implicit admission to her own culpability in Giffords’ shooting. If she were entirely innocent, she wouldn’t have felt the need to pull down the image. Admirably, Palin recognized that her own rhetoric made her complicit in this tragedy, and she responded appropriately. She scrubbed the violent rhetoric. The question is whether other right-leaning politicians and pundits will do the same. Many people are complicit in this tragedy. How they respond will tell us a lot about their values and their commitment to our democratic republic.
No sane person is calling for Palin to be prosecuted for her cross-hairs graphic. While she may be complicit in Giffords’ shooting, she’s not criminally liable for it. Being complicit means being partially responsible, but that the level of involvement does not rise to a level that is criminally actionable. That could be said of a number of politicians and pundits in regards to a number of tragic events in American history, but the point here is that Palin did the right thing when there was even a remote possibility that she had made a tragic mistake. She scrubbed her website. She toned down her violent rhetoric. Will other conservative pundits and politicians do the same? That remains to be seen.
So far, the right has been mostly silent about the tragedy. What scant responses there have been are childishly defensive. And it’s not surprising that the right is being defensive right now. After all, there are very few left-wing militias (if any), and talk radio is dominated by people who push both a right-leaning agenda and who, on occasion, suggest violent remedies to political problems. If anything, right-wing pundits and politicians try to shut down discussion of this issue. Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TN) told a CNN reporter in response to a question regarding Palin’s cross-hairs ad, “I think you’re responsible, by bringing this up, of doing the very thing you’re trying to condemn.†Alexander continued that, “I think the way to get away from it is for you not to be talking about it.â€
How exactly, one wonders, is “not talking about this problem†going to help? The fact of the matter is that right-leaning politicians and pundits have subtly been pushing violent, hateful rhetoric for years, and it is entirely disingenuous of them to now claim no responsibility for the tragedy we recently witnessed. But it doesn’t really matter to the 9-year-old victim of this tragedy who, exactly, was pushing the violent rhetoric that inflamed Loughner, nor does it matter to the Federal Judge who was killed, nor to any of the other victims. It doesn’t even matter what Loughner’s “true motivations†were. What matters to all of us is the fact that words have consequences and that the nature of our political discourse has become more extreme and more violent in our recent history. This event provides Republicans and conservative pundits with an opportunity to tone down the rhetoric of hatred and anger that leads nuts like Loughner to kill innocent people. Democrats and liberals can’t lead this fight because the intended victim, this time, was one of their own. At this particular, historical moment, only conservatives can lead us to a more rational and civil national discourse, but will they?
The jury’s still out on that, but the point being made here is that it would be beneficial, both morally and politically, for the right to condemn violent and hateful rhetoric in the wake of this tragedy. Defensive responses are tantamount to an admission of guilt, and while some right-leaning politicians and pundits have every reason to be defensive, it would serve them better, politically, to do the right thing and condemn all rhetoric that incites violence, whether it be from the right or the left. Not only would that be a service to the nation and to the Republican Party, itself, it would be the right thing to do. It is entirely up to them whether or not they heed this call and seize this golden opportunity.
-Laelth
http://www.oldelmtree.com/index.php?topic=18485.msg202701;topicseen#msg202701
We have links to Democrats using targets to ID Republicans for political defeat, we have Dear Leader saying on the campaign trail, "If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun," we have Chris Matthews saying he hopes one day someone will kill Rush Limbaugh like Mr. Big died in the James Bond movie 'Live and Let Die," we have the KosKiddies scrubbing their website over one of their own saying Gabrielle Giffords was "dead to me," and on and on we could go.
So where's the Laelth's calls for liberals to "Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhetoric?" Silence from him on any of these events, until now. And even at this juncture, it's over an event that, by all indications, had nothing to do with what some refer to as "violent rhetoric."
The hypocracy and lies of the left knows no bounds.
.
-
Let me get this straight, Laelth wants the right to condemn violent rhetoric? OK I will, I condemn MSNBC for the violence they talk about when discussing Republicans on a daily basis, I condemn Democratic Underground for not having rules in place to stop the foaming at the mouth posters, I condemn the left blogosphere for jumping to conclusions before the facts were in place and doing so for political purposes, I condemn the left for cheering a President of the United States to say things like this:
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gunâ€
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!â€
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!â€
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hardâ€
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combatâ€
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.â€
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.â€
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.â€.
I condemn the left for these acts of violence:
•It was not the fear of conservative violence that caused Ann Coulter's speech to be cancelled this week.
•It was a liberal who bit the finger off a man who disagreed with him on healthcare.
•It was Obama-loving Amy Bishop who took a gun to work and murdered co-workers.
•Joseph Stack flew his plane into the IRS building after writing an anti-conservative manifesto.
•It was liberals who destroyed AM radio towers outside of Seattle.
•It's liberals who burn down Hummer dealerships.
•It was progressive SEIU union thugs who beat a blaack conservative man who spoke his mind.
•It's doubtful that a conservative fired shotss into a GOP campaign headquarters.
•In fact, Democrats have no monopoly on having their offices vandalized.
•Don't forget it was Obama's friend Bill Ayers who used terrorism as a tool for political change. SDS is still radical, with arrests in 2007 and the storming of the CATO Institute in July 2008.
•It was a liberal who was sentenced to two years for bringing bombs and riot shields to the Republican National Convention in 2008.
•It was a liberal who threatened to kill a government informant who infiltrated her Austin-based group that planned to bomb the RNC.
•It was liberals who assaulted police in Berkeley.
•It was liberals who intimidated and threw rocks through the windows of researchers.
•The two Black Panthers who stood outside polls intimidating people with nightsticks were probably not right-wingers.
•Every time the G20 gets together, it's not conservatives who destroy property and cause chaos.
I condemn the left for allowing radicals like we see on ZombieTime to get away with their violent demonstrations, and I condemn those on the left who refuse to look in the mirror, and who don't adhere to the old saying about pointing fingers, and when you point a finger there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. Get your own house in order before you try to condemn my house!
-
Oh, and in reference to OET, I was a little ticked off at what Allentown Jake did here, but fair is fair, and I have to say the past couple of days he's been the minority over there and hasn't railed against the right, and hasn't pointed the finger of blame at the right, he seems to be the only 1 over there who realizes this over-reaction by the left will hurt the left in the long run, and is trying his best to steer the conversation from the insanity to reality, of course most aren't following his lead. But hats off to you Jake for trying.
-
Hey Laelth,you have an account here so why don`t you show up and condemn the fact right from the word go the left has been trying to turn this monstous act of a lunatic into a political circus and attempt to silence free speech.
I dare you to.
-
Typical liberal projection.
BTW we are no longer kowtowed by the label racist. We will not kowtow to baseless claims of violence either.
-
We have links to Democrats using targets to ID Republicans for political defeat, we have Dear Leader saying on the campaign trail, "If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun," we have Chris Matthews saying he hopes one day someone will kill Rush Limbaugh like Mr. Big died in the James Bond movie 'Live and Let Die," we have the KosKiddies scrubbing their website over one of their own saying Gabrielle Giffords was "dead to me," and on and on we could go.
So where's the Laelth's calls for liberals to "Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhetoric?" Silence from him on any of these events, until now. And even at this juncture, it's over an event that, by all indications, had nothing to do with what some refer to as "violent rhetoric."
The hypocracy and lies of the left knows no bounds.
.
Ok, I'm goin' to post this link until these dipshits get it, on every single link we bring over here to show their hypocrisy!
Malkin's run down on left wingers inciting violence! (http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/)
-
Laelth
A Golden Opportunity for the Right: Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhetoric
January 10, 2011
The tragic shooting of Gabrielle Giffords provides conservative pundits and politicians a golden opportunity to take the high road and condemn the violent, hateful rhetoric that encourages political assassination attempts of the kind we recently witnessed in Arizona.
:whatever:
Physician, heal thyself first.
-
Laelth
A Golden Opportunity for the Right: Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhetoric
January 10, 2011
A Golden Opportunity for the Democrat Underground: Take the High Road and Condemn Sick ****s Who Assasinate Members of Congress and 9 Year-Old Girls
Try doing that, you sanctimonious twat.
-
Keep in mind the libs idea of "childishly defensive" is not admitting to be what they claim you are.
What the Laelth's of the world can't seem to grasp is that I find the words of those to whom his comrades listen (like Olbermann, Maddow, Malloy, etc...) to be hatefilled rhetoric that is being said to incite violence against those of who they disagree. So when Olbermann did "The Worst Person In The World" segment, who's to say that someone who agreed with him wouldn't hear that as a calling to rid the world of this "worst" person? And yet him and libs in general, completely ignore this, or act as though it isn't equivalent.
If he truly believes as he claims, then the responsible thing for him to have done would have been to call upon his lib opinion commentators to not say anything that might even have remotely caused someone to act out what they believed the commentator was asking. But did he? No.
You see, when Dear Leader said "they bring a knife, we bring a gun," or when Palin used crosshairs to ID targets for political office, did I take either of those as saying they wanted someone to go out and committ murder? No, I didn't. But then again, I'm normal and not a kook like Laelth. To make matters worse, he views one as being "violent rhetoric" and the other he doesn't even mention. If he wants Republicans to step up because they're the only one's who can tone down the rhetoric at this time, then he's overlooking the responsibility of the Democrats at this time to actually get the ball rolling by saying "When Dear Leader said "knife, gun," and B, and C, and D, etc..., we condemn him for this, and we call upon R's to do that with those who support them." But will he call on that?
.
-
DUmmies probably think "the high road" is a special road designated for potheads.
-
(http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/w/wtf2.gif) Are all the libtards competing for 'Shitstain of the Month'?
Is this fool Laelth the Head Sludgepit?
-
Try doing that, you sanctimonious twat.
HNC . . . let 'em know how you really feel.
H5, BTW!
-
(http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/w/wtf2.gif)
Is this fool Laelth the Head Sludgepit?
He's their Lead Counsel.
-
He's their Lead Counsel.
Isn't "Laelth" a she, in dire need of gettin' laid? If not, then I stand DUmbFounded, and plead the 5th!
Just sayin............
-
Isn't "Laelth" a she, in dire need of gettin' laid? If not, then I stand DUmbFounded, and plead the 5th!
Just sayin............
Are you volunteering for the "dirty deed". I won't tell toots, if you are. :whistling:
-
Are you volunteering for the "dirty deed". I won't tell toots, if you are. :whistling:
I wouldn't screw a DUmbster Diver with your dick, Thund!
Besides, it wouldn't be worth it if she looked like Farrah Faucette in the "Charlie's Angel" days!
I like my nutz right where they are, thank you very much!
Sure way to get them re-located would be to step out on "Toots"!
-
Let's see. A loony leftist maims a relative centrist democrat, and he wants the GOP to apologize?
Typical.
-
Let's see. A loony leftist maims a relative centrist democrat, and he wants the GOP to apologize?
Typical.
Ain't it though?
-
Her doing so constitutes an implicit admission to her own culpability in Giffords’ shooting.
Explain, Lealth. Explain just how Sarah Palin is responsible for a different person's actions.
She is not you little scumbag. No one is responsible for the actions of another. Can I blame Obama for the actions of Joe Stack? No, because Joe Stack acted on his own volition.
-
Her doing so constitutes an implicit admission to her own culpability in Giffords’ shooting.
Absolutely...
And I blame her for the Saints' complete inability to run a Cover 2 pass defense. :banghead:
Damn you, Palin!!!!!
-
Explain, Lealth. Explain just how Sarah Palin is responsible for a different person's actions.
She is not you little scumbag. No one is responsible for the actions of another. Can I blame Obama for the actions of Joe Stack? No, because Joe Stack acted on his own volition.
So will we be hearing from HER around the same time we hear from Allentown Jakeoff?
Personally, I find them both distasteful and am glad they aren't here, but they'll show up eventually, unfortunately for us.
-
Are you volunteering for the "dirty deed". I won't tell toots, if you are. :whistling:
Don't look at me either....but I am all for sending her the ultimate climax maker "The Eploding Black Vibrator".
-
So will we be hearing from HER around the same time we hear from Allentown Jakeoff?
Personally, I find them both distasteful and am glad they aren't here, but they'll show up eventually, unfortunately for us.
No, I actually do not expect the Lealth to show up, but who knows. I would love to hear why he/she/it thinks Palin to be responsible.
-
No, I actually do not expect the Lealth to show up, but who knows. I would love to hear why he/she/it thinks Palin to be responsible.
Because he/sheit holds dear to the liberal fantasy that all things evil emanate from Palin, including Hitler and Pol Pot. Amazing how hatred can derange certain people.
-
Are you volunteering for the "dirty deed". I won't tell toots, if you are. :whistling:
Don't look at me either. I wouldn't screw her with Bea Arthur's dick.
-
Don't look at me either. I wouldn't screw her with Bea Arthur's dick.
DUDE!!!!! Too soon, man.... :-)
-
DUDE!!!!! Too soon, man.... :-)
It's still stiff isn't it?
-
It's still stiff isn't it?
:doh:
-
Isn't "Laelth" a she, in dire need of gettin' laid? If not, then I stand DUmbFounded, and plead the 5th!
Just sayin............
I've never noticed. Probably indistinguishable, ya know meterosexual.
-
Let me get this straight, Laelth wants the right to condemn violent rhetoric? OK I will, I condemn MSNBC for the violence they talk about when discussing Republicans on a daily basis, I condemn Democratic Underground for not having rules in place to stop the foaming at the mouth posters, I condemn the left blogosphere for jumping to conclusions before the facts were in place and doing so for political purposes, I condemn the left for cheering a President of the United States to say things like this:
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gunâ€
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!â€
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!â€
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hardâ€
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combatâ€
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.â€
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.â€
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.â€.
I condemn the left for these acts of violence:
•It was not the fear of conservative violence that caused Ann Coulter's speech to be cancelled this week.
•It was a liberal who bit the finger off a man who disagreed with him on healthcare.
•It was Obama-loving Amy Bishop who took a gun to work and murdered co-workers.
•Joseph Stack flew his plane into the IRS building after writing an anti-conservative manifesto.
•It was liberals who destroyed AM radio towers outside of Seattle.
•It's liberals who burn down Hummer dealerships.
•It was progressive SEIU union thugs who beat a blaack conservative man who spoke his mind.
•It's doubtful that a conservative fired shotss into a GOP campaign headquarters.
•In fact, Democrats have no monopoly on having their offices vandalized.
•Don't forget it was Obama's friend Bill Ayers who used terrorism as a tool for political change. SDS is still radical, with arrests in 2007 and the storming of the CATO Institute in July 2008.
•It was a liberal who was sentenced to two years for bringing bombs and riot shields to the Republican National Convention in 2008.
•It was a liberal who threatened to kill a government informant who infiltrated her Austin-based group that planned to bomb the RNC.
•It was liberals who assaulted police in Berkeley.
•It was liberals who intimidated and threw rocks through the windows of researchers.
•The two Black Panthers who stood outside polls intimidating people with nightsticks were probably not right-wingers.
•Every time the G20 gets together, it's not conservatives who destroy property and cause chaos.
I condemn the left for allowing radicals like we see on ZombieTime to get away with their violent demonstrations, and I condemn those on the left who refuse to look in the mirror, and who don't adhere to the old saying about pointing fingers, and when you point a finger there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. Get your own house in order before you try to condemn my house!
Sorry guys. Posting here for reference. You''ll see why in the near future.
Agreed 100%, BG. :cheersmate:
-
Absolutely...
And I blame her for the Saints' complete inability to run a Cover 2 pass defense. :banghead:
Damn you, Palin Lealth!!!!!
Fixed it for ya HollyWood!
-
Absolutely...
And I blame her for the Saints' complete inability to run a Cover 2 pass defense. :banghead:
Damn you, Palin!!!!!
Lost some money on the Saints, did we? :???: :p :tongue: O-)
(Had to, HNC. I think you could count on one hand the people outside of the Seattle metroplex who made money on the 'Hawks that game.)
-
Laleth...as I told you in another thread here over the weekend where you attempted this nonsense...go tell your mouth breathing ritalin chewing Leftist brethren at OET and the DUmp to clean up their act BEFORE you come pointing at us.
You really don't want to go down this road. The hive mentality you're displaying now will do nothing but embarass you farther than what you've done to yourself already.
-
Name: Laelth
Posts: 126 (0.649 per day)
Position: Just Off Probation
Reputation: +1/-16
Date Registered: June 30, 2010, 08:01:35 am
Last Active: January 10, 2011, 09:31:08 pm
Ignored by: 0 member
Come on you gutless,ignorant piece of shit...you are allowed to freely post here so stand up and defend your statement in a place it can be challenged.
-
Thanks for posting this here. Glad you all took the opportnity to read it.
-Laelth
-
Thanks for posting this here. Glad you all took the opportnity to read it.
-Laelth
Now, defend your assertion that us conservatives are in any way responsible.
-
Thanks for posting this here. Glad you all took the opportnity to read it.
-Laelth
Sorry, read the heading and first line and immediately hit the mental flush handle.
When you and the rest of the leftist filth start correcting and monitoring yourselves, I may be interested in something you have to say.
When you and the rest of the DUmp rejects decide you have the intestinal fortitude to post bullshit like this here rather than your liberal echo chamber, I may be interested in something you have to say.
When you and the rest of your emotionally stunted rejects have enough intellectual honesty to realize that maybe, just maybe, the bile and hatred that has been vomited from the left for decades is a problem, I may be interested in what you have to say.
Until then, feel free to take your opinions on how the rest of us should behave and run them up your ass with a rusty iron stick. I personally will not be lectured about how dirty my house is by someone who does not know how to clean their own.
-
Now, defend your assertion that us conservatives are in any way responsible.
Save the bandwidth, AD. It's not like these cowards from the DUmp or OET actually have enough of a spine to actually defend themselves or their positions.
-
Now, defend your assertion that us conservatives are in any way responsible.
If one ever needed the definition of coward you just saw it with Laelth.
A fine representative of the left,and so typical...runs their mouth with lies and accusations then when called to back it up heads for the hills.
-
This video clip, if you haven't seen it, is quite prescient.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tTDiZZYCAs[/youtube]
-Laelth
-
Thanks for posting this here. Glad you all took the opportnity to read it.
-Laelth
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6bn0hJvhm1qclcx7o1_400.jpg)
“Whoop-de-****ing-doo."
-
Save the bandwidth, AD. It's not like these cowards from the DUmp or OET actually have enough of a spine to actually defend themselves or their positions.
Yup. Much easier to just lip synch what others tell them to parrot.
Then accuse us of what they are doing.
-
This video clip, if you haven't seen it, is quite prescient.
Save it, sweet pea, nobody gives a damn about whatever you have to cut and paste says. Either make an attempt to back up your bullshit with your own words and work or shut the door behind you.
-
This video clip, if you haven't seen it, is quite prescient.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tTDiZZYCAs[/youtube]
-Laelth
The crosshairs were purely symbolic. So was this ad below, but no one is accusing Joe Manchin of inciting violence.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIJORBRpOPM&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
-
The crosshairs were purely symbolic. So was this ad below, but no one is accusing Joe Manchin of inciting violence.
Never mind the fact that Kos used the same kind of bullshit to target blue dog democrats; you know, like the one that was shot.
:whatever:
These OET pukes are more mentally feeble than the DUmmies.
-
We have links to Democrats using targets to ID Republicans for political defeat, we have Dear Leader saying on the campaign trail, "If They Bring a Knife to the Fight, We Bring a Gun," we have Chris Matthews saying he hopes one day someone will kill Rush Limbaugh like Mr. Big died in the James Bond movie 'Live and Let Die," we have the KosKiddies scrubbing their website over one of their own saying Gabrielle Giffords was "dead to me," and on and on we could go.
So where's the Laelth's calls for liberals to "Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhetoric?" Silence from him on any of these events, until now. And even at this juncture, it's over an event that, by all indications, had nothing to do with what some refer to as "violent rhetoric."
The hypocracy and lies of the left knows no bounds.
Undoubtedly, as I said in the article, lotsof people are complicit. But the left can't make this argument right now. Anything the lft said will be dismissed as political posturing, as we're already eeing.
Only politicians and pundits the right can do the right thing at this time. Let's hope they do. Sarah Palin did, much to her credit.
-Laelt
-
To her credit, Sarah Palin quickly scrubbed her website and pulled down the graphic that had rifle-scope cross-hairs pointed directly at Gabrielle Giffords’ House district in Arizona. Her doing so constitutes an implicit admission to her own culpability in Giffords’ shooting.
Maybe it's because any "condemnation of the violence" will be met with the same twisted logic as that displayed in the quote block above.
And we're still waiting for any actual evidence from you nitwits that there was any causality related to anything said or done by a conservative. Haven't heard of any such evidence from the FBI, so if you have it I'm sure they'd appreciate you getting in contact with them. Some mention of Palin, Beck, et al, from the perpetrator? Books or videos by them in his possession? E-mails to them on his hard drive? Some quote from them showing up in his YouTube rants? A Rush Limbaugh necktie in his closet? Anything?
-
Never mind the fact that Kos used the same kind of bullshit to target blue dog democrats; you know, like the one that was shot.
:whatever:
These OET pukes are more mentally feeble than the DUmmies.
The majority of them came from the DUmp. That right there tells me all I need to know about them.
-
Undoubtedly, as I said in the article, lotsof people are complicit. But the left can't make this argument right now. Anything the lft said will be dismissed as political posturing, as we're already eeing.
That's because the left IS using this situation to posture and play politics. Show me one politician or pundit on the right that is playing politics with this tragedy.
I dare you.
Only politicians and pundits the right can do the right thing at this time. Let's hope they do. Sarah Palin did, much to her credit.
-Laelt
God you are infuriating. What kind of blinders do you have to be wearing to sit there and do exactly what you accuse the left of doing and not see it?
What has the right done to inflame any kind of situation in the last decade?
Where is the long list of violence inciting tirades from politicians and pundits from the right?
If we're as evil and mean as you say it should be just as easy for you to gin up the same kind of list that has been found of the left inviting people to kill maim and harm the people they don't agree with.
But in typical Libtard fashion...you can't or won't produce ANY example. Instead you just lip synch the same tired old bullshit that it's up to those on the right to "do the right thing".
Which anyone with an IQ above room temp knows is Leftist code for censorship.
-
Let me get this straight, Laelth wants the right to condemn violent rhetoric? OK I will, I condemn MSNBC for the violence they talk about when discussing Republicans on a daily basis, I condemn Democratic Underground for not having rules in place to stop the foaming at the mouth posters, I condemn the left blogosphere for jumping to conclusions before the facts were in place and doing so for political purposes, I condemn the left for cheering a President of the United States to say things like this:
Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gunâ€
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!â€
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!â€
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hardâ€
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combatâ€
Obama to lib supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.â€
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.â€
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.â€.
I condemn the left for these acts of violence:
•It was not the fear of conservative violence that caused Ann Coulter's speech to be cancelled this week.
•It was a liberal who bit the finger off a man who disagreed with him on healthcare.
•It was Obama-loving Amy Bishop who took a gun to work and murdered co-workers.
•Joseph Stack flew his plane into the IRS building after writing an anti-conservative manifesto.
•It was liberals who destroyed AM radio towers outside of Seattle.
•It's liberals who burn down Hummer dealerships.
•It was progressive SEIU union thugs who beat a blaack conservative man who spoke his mind.
•It's doubtful that a conservative fired shotss into a GOP campaign headquarters.
•In fact, Democrats have no monopoly on having their offices vandalized.
•Don't forget it was Obama's friend Bill Ayers who used terrorism as a tool for political change. SDS is still radical, with arrests in 2007 and the storming of the CATO Institute in July 2008.
•It was a liberal who was sentenced to two years for bringing bombs and riot shields to the Republican National Convention in 2008.
•It was a liberal who threatened to kill a government informant who infiltrated her Austin-based group that planned to bomb the RNC.
•It was liberals who assaulted police in Berkeley.
•It was liberals who intimidated and threw rocks through the windows of researchers.
•The two Black Panthers who stood outside polls intimidating people with nightsticks were probably not right-wingers.
•Every time the G20 gets together, it's not conservatives who destroy property and cause chaos.
I condemn the left for allowing radicals like we see on ZombieTime to get away with their violent demonstrations, and I condemn those on the left who refuse to look in the mirror, and who don't adhere to the old saying about pointing fingers, and when you point a finger there are always 3 fingers pointing back at you. Get your own house in order before you try to condemn my house!
You're absolutely right to say that this problem is not confined to the right. I have never denied that, but the right has the opportuinity to do something about it now--an opportunity that the left does not have because a Democrat was the target of this assassination attempt. We'll see how leaders on the right respond.
Thanks for reading the essay.
-Laelth
-
Undoubtedly, as I said in the article, lotsof people are complicit. But the left can't make this argument right now. Anything the lft said will be dismissed as political posturing, as we're already eeing.
Only politicians and pundits the right can do the right thing at this time. Let's hope they do. Sarah Palin did, much to her credit.
-Laelt
**** you with your idiotic,prove a negative tripe.
That is the tactic of despots and tyrants or just the intellectually lazy.
You pieces of crap have been trying to make a political gain from this from the first second and now it is coming around to bite you in the ass.
Tell ya what,why don`t you link to threads or posts at OET that simply extended grief or sympathies without any political agenda.
Bet they are few and far between but prove me wrong.
-
And we're still waiting for any actual evidence from you nitwits that there was any causality related to anything said or done by a conservative. Haven't heard of any such evidence from the FBI, so if you have it I'm sure they'd appreciate you getting in contact with them. Some mention of Palin, Beck, et al, from the perpetrator? Books or videos by them in his possession? E-mails to them on his hard drive? Some quote from them showing up in his YouTube rants? A Rush Limbaugh necktie in his closet? Anything?
Nah, nothing like that exists. Neither do calls from Sarah, Rush, Glenn, Sean, et al to "punish their enemies" nor do you hear stories about them stabbing knives into a table as a punctuation of cries of "dead" when talking about political opponents. Nor will you find the aforementioned stating that they should not let a crisis go to waste.
But that doesn't stop this wet-mouthed liberal from demanding that the "right" do the "right thing", does it?
No, sir, not for one hot second.
Never mind that it is the left that started vomiting their hate as soon as there was a microphone within range of their oral sewers; climbing the not quite cold bodies of the dead and trampling the wounded to blame their political "enemies". But it is Sarah, Rush, Glenn, Sean, et al that are supposed to apologize and prostrate themselves because of the actions of a lunatic, leftist, whackaloon.
What passes for logic in the mind of a liberal....
-
You're absolutely right to say that this problem is not confined to the right. I have never denied that, but the right has the opportuinity to do something about it now--an opportunity that the left does not have because a Democrat was the target of this assassination attempt. We'll see how leaders on the right respond.
Thanks for reading the essay.
-Laelth
Read the news instead of running your mouth,there was also a Republican Federal judge killed.
-
You're absolutely right to say that this problem is not confined to the right. I have never denied that, but the right has the opportuinity to do something about it now--an opportunity that the left does not have because a Democrat was the target of this assassination attempt. We'll see how leaders on the right respond.
Wow.... The "right" does not need to apologize for anything because they have not done anything to inspire the type of leftist violence that you quoted in your post. Yet, you still believe they need to be the ones to get out in front of this by doing the "right thing".
Interesting.
I hope you don't use that same tactic in court, juris doctorate. A half awake opponent would make you a laughing stock in very quick order.
-
Oh, and in reference to OET, I was a little ticked off at what Allentown Jake did here, but fair is fair, and I have to say the past couple of days he's been the minority over there and hasn't railed against the right, and hasn't pointed the finger of blame at the right, he seems to be the only 1 over there who realizes this over-reaction by the left will hurt the left in the long run, and is trying his best to steer the conversation from the insanity to reality, of course most aren't following his lead. But hats off to you Jake for trying.
Kudos for a rational, objective assessment.
In all fairness, though, to the extent I am "pointing fingers" in the essay above, I am not pointing exclusively at the right. I freely admit that lots of people are complicit here, and I am inviting the right to condemn violent rhetoric from any source--right or left or middle. The source does not matter to me.
-Laelth
-
You're absolutely right to say that this problem is not confined to the right. I have never denied that, but the right has the opportuinity to do something about it now--an opportunity that the left does not have because a Democrat was the target of this assassination attempt. We'll see how leaders on the right respond.
Thanks for reading the essay.
-Laelth
I've got a bone to pick with you...you double talking feather merchant.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
Undoubtedly, as I said in the article, lotsof people are complicit. But the left can't make this argument right now. Anything the lft said will be dismissed as political posturing, as we're already eeing.
The politicals hacks of the left ARE using this tragedy for political posturing (to pass gun laws and hate speech laws as we are already seeing now: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html), and riling people up with propaganda in the process. In short, the left, and especially the biased media, is fanning the flames of hatred, the very thing that conservatives were accused of.
-
Hey Laelth,you have an account here so why don`t you show up and condemn the fact right from the word go the left has been trying to turn this monstous act of a lunatic into a political circus and attempt to silence free speech.
I dare you to.
Hello Carl,
I think the left needs to be silent on this issue and confine its comments to grief over the dead and wounded. As I said in the essay, the left can't effectively address this problem in this environment. Anything the left says will be condemned as political posturing. Only politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do the right thing here.
Thanks for the response.
-Laelth
-
Explain, Lealth. Explain just how Sarah Palin is responsible for a different person's actions.
She is not you little scumbag. No one is responsible for the actions of another. Can I blame Obama for the actions of Joe Stack? No, because Joe Stack acted on his own volition.
I address the difference between complicity and culpability in the essay.
Regardless, Palin did the right thing by scrubbing her website, and I wanted to give her credit for that, even if she was late in doing so.
-Laelth
-
Hello Carl,
I think the left needs to be silent on this issue and confine its comments to grief over the dead and wounded. As I said in the essay, the left can't effectively address this problem in this environment. Anything the left says will be condemned as political posturing. Only politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do the right thing here.
Thanks for the response.
-Laelth
*ahem*
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
Hello Carl,
I think the left needs to be silent on this issue and confine its comments to grief over the dead and wounded. As I said in the essay, the left can't effectively address this problem in this environment. Anything the left says will be condemned as political posturing. Only politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do the right thing here.
Thanks for the response.
-Laelth
Then why aren`t you condemning your own for their posturing and screeching.
-
Hello Carl,
I think the left needs to be silent on this issue and confine its comments to grief over the dead and wounded. As I said in the essay, the left can't effectively address this problem in this environment. Anything the left says will be condemned as political posturing. Only politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do the right thing here.
Thanks for the response.
-Laelth
This is the internet equivalent of a form letter.
-
Laleth...as I told you in another thread here over the weekend where you attempted this nonsense...go tell your mouth breathing ritalin chewing Leftist brethren at OET and the DUmp to clean up their act BEFORE you come pointing at us.
You really don't want to go down this road. The hive mentality you're displaying now will do nothing but embarass you farther than what you've done to yourself already.
Yes, you have been rude to me on a number of occasions. I celebrate these occasions, honestly, because they make you look bad, not me.
And this essay is not "pointing" at you. It's making the simple point that politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do something positive about the level of our national discourse at the moment--an opportunity that the left does not have for reasons that I explained.
When a politician on the right gets targeted for assassination, I will be the first to call upon the left to tone down whatever violent rhetoric may have contributed to the climate in which a nut could be encouraged act out his or her mental instability in a way that harms innocent people (and all of us, ultimately).
-Laelth
-
I address the difference between complicity and culpability in the essay.
Regardless, Palin did the right thing by scrubbing her website, and I wanted to give her credit for that, even if she was late in doing so.
-Laelth
com·plic·i·ty
   /kəmˈplɪsɪti/ Show Spelled[kuhm-plis-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
the state of being an accomplice; partnership or involvement in wrongdoing: complicity in a crime.
Please provide evidence of the above as it relates specifically Mr. Loughner's crime.
We'll wait.
-
Yes, you have been rude to me on a number of occasions. I celebrate these occasions, honestly, because they make you look bad, not me.
And this essay is not "pointing" at you. It's making the simple point that politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do something positive about the level of our national discourse at the moment--an opportunity that the left does not have for reasons that I explained.
When a politician on the right gets targeted for assassination, I will be the first to call upon the left to tone down whatever violent rhetoric may have contributed to the climate in which a nut could be encouraged act out his or her mental instability in a way that harms innocent people (and all of us, ultimately).
-Laelth
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
Come on you gutless,ignorant piece of shit...you are allowed to freely post here so stand up and defend your statement in a place it can be challenged.
Sigh. I actually do have a job and can't monitor this site 24/7. But I am interested in what the intelligent and civil people on this site have to say, and that's why I am a member.
To the extent you fit that description, I'd be happy to discuss this issue with you, time permitting.
-Laelth
-
Now, defend your assertion that us conservatives are in any way responsible.
Lots of people are responsible, including the person you refer to as "Dear Leader," and I admitted as much in the essay. Even Sarah Palin felt partially responsible. Nothing else explains why she scrubbed her website, and I wanted to give her credit for that.
The point of the essay is that only the right has the opportunity to do the right thing here and condemn all the violent rhetoric we see in our political discourse, no matter whether it comes from the left or the right. Jon Stewart has been doing this for months, but anyone who made that argument from the left in this climate, would be blistered for it--as you can imagine and as we have already seen.
Whether or not right-leaning politicians and pundits seize this opportunity to do the right thing will say a lot about their character and their commitment to this republic. We'll see.
-Laelth
-
Sigh. I actually do have a job and can't monitor this site 24/7. But I am interested in what the intelligent and civil people on this site have to say, and that's why I am a member.
To the extent you fit that description, I'd be happy to discuss this issue with you, time permitting.
-Laelth
Let me inform you about a couple of things with me...I don`t suffer fools or wordsmiths for a moment.
Making an accusation,asserting one has to prove a negative,allow motives to be defined by assertion rather then facts and then when challenged restate the same as an argument or defense is not going to happen.
I asked YOU who made the assertions to show where your own little lefty site has condemned those on the left for trying to make political hay from it,where they extend nothing but human kindness and concern for the victims without political manuvering and you have not.
Your talking in circles is an old ploy but it will end here,understand.
Now show where any conservative has called for violence of any kind and not your defining motives as in well they said we needed to take back the country so that means they want a revolution.
Show where the shooter had any influence at all by any conservative.
Condemn the actions you are conveniently saying you can`t because it would be political.
You are way out of your league here and quickly showing yourself to be a yammering fool.
-
Sigh. I actually do have a job and can't monitor this site 24/7. But I am interested in what the intelligent and civil people on this site have to say, and that's why I am a member.
To the extent you fit that description, I'd be happy to discuss this issue with you, time permitting.
-Laelth
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
Sorry, read the heading and first line and immediately hit the mental flush handle.
When you and the rest of the leftist filth start correcting and monitoring yourselves, I may be interested in something you have to say.
When you and the rest of the DUmp rejects decide you have the intestinal fortitude to post bullshit like this here rather than your liberal echo chamber, I may be interested in something you have to say.
When you and the rest of your emotionally stunted rejects have enough intellectual honesty to realize that maybe, just maybe, the bile and hatred that has been vomited from the left for decades is a problem, I may be interested in what you have to say.
Until then, feel free to take your opinions on how the rest of us should behave and run them up your ass with a rusty iron stick. I personally will not be lectured about how dirty my house is by someone who does not know how to clean their own.
The essay clearly states that this problem is not confined to the right. That said, and I apologize for using your particular response as an example because you're not the only one who has made this argument, but your post exemplifies the "childish defensiveness" I describe in the essay.
These are the kinds of things my children say when they've been busted for inappropriate behavior:
"He started it!"
"He did it first!"
"He did it too!"
Those kinds of responses are childishly defensive. For the benefit of our country--the one you think you own, the one you may think I have no right to live in, the one you may think I am trying to destroy, despite the fact that I live here too and am deeply invested in it--for the sake of that country, whose Constiution I took an oath to defend, I am trying to sugget to politicians and pundits on the right that they have an opportunity to do the right thing, here, and I am inviting them to take that opportunity. Whether they take this opportunity will say a lot about them.
-Laelth
-
Lots of people are responsible, including the person you refer to as "Dear Leader," and I admitted as much in the essay. Even Sarah Palin felt partially responsible. Nothing else explains why she scrubbed her website, and I wanted to give her credit for that.
The point of the essay is that only the right has the opportunity to do the right thing here and condemn all the violent rhetoric we see in our political discourse, no matter whether it comes from the left or the right. Jon Stewart has been doing this for months, but anyone who made that argument from the left in this climate, would be blistered for it--as you can imagine and as we have already seen.
Whether or not right-leaning politicians and pundits seize this opportunity to do the right thing will say a lot about their character and their commitment to this republic. We'll see.
-Laelth
The only way that one person's words can be responsible for the actions of another is through incitement (encouraging or commanding others to do harm). The shooter and only the shooter is responsible for murder.
-
The essay clearly states that this problem is not confined to the right. That said, and I apologize for using your particular response as an example because you're not the only one who has made this argument, but your post exemplifies the "childish defensiveness" I describe in the essay.
These are the kinds of things my children say when they've been busted for inappropriate behavior:
"He started it!"
"He did it first!"
"He did it too!"
Those kinds of responses are childishly defensive. For the benefit of our country--the one you think you own, the one you may think I have no right to live in, the one you may think I am trying to destroy, despite the fact that I live here too and am deeply invested in it--for the sake of that country, whose Constiution I took an oath to defend, I am trying to sugget to politicians and pundits on the right that they have an opportunity to do the right thing, here, and I am inviting them to take that opportunity. Whether they take this opportunity will say a lot about them.
-Laelth
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
Laelth
Mod
Sneetch
Posts: 1180
Re: A Golden Opportunity for the Right: Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhet
« Reply #19 on: Today at 10:48:50 AM »
CC picked up on this essay and reposted it here: http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53785.0/topicseen.html
I intend to engage a few of them on it--the intelligent and civil ones (and there are a good number of people who fit that description at CC).
For those who may be interested.
-Laelth
You haven't engaged in anything but hollow easily disproven talking points that you culled from someone way smarter than yourself.
You've been called to the fight club.
I suggest you get there.
-
It's making the simple point that politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do something positive about the level of our national discourse at the moment--an opportunity that the left does not have for reasons that I explained.
They've been there and done that.
House Republicans decry threats against lawmakers
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/03/25/hoyer_decries_talk_of_reprisals_against_lawmakers/
I'm sure you have a counter link to provide the same type of condemnation from the democrats.
Any second now.....
When a politician on the right gets targeted for assassination, I will be the first to call upon the left to tone down whatever violent rhetoric may have contributed to the climate in which a nut could be encouraged act out his or her mental instability in a way that harms innocent people (and all of us, ultimately).
"A spoiled child (Bush) is telling us our Social Security isn't safe anymore, so he is going to fix it for us. Well, here's your answer, you ungrateful whelp: [audio sound of 4 gunshots being fired.] Just try it, you little b*stard. [audio of gun being cocked]." -- A "humor bit" from the Randi Rhodes Show
"I want to go up to the closest white person and say: 'You can't understand this, it's a black thing' and then slap him, just for my mental health" -- New York city councilman Charles Barron
"..And then there's Rumsfeld who said of Iraq 'We have our good days and our bad days.' We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say 'This is one of our bad days' and pull the trigger." -- From a fundraising ad put out by the St. Petersburg Democratic Club
"...but the kind of people who would buy a car that increases the risk to other motorists in an accident can't be reasoned with. They're selfish and stupid. It's unfortunate that drivers must worry that their SUVs are being targeted by insulting stickers and Molotov cocktails, but one thing's for sure: It couldn't be happening to a more deserving group of people." -- Ted Rall winks at ecoterrorism
"F*** God D*mned Joe the God D*mned Motherf*cking plumber! I want Motherf*cking Joe the plumber dead." -- Liberal talk show host Charles Karel Bouley on the air.
"Republicans don't believe in the imagination, partly because so few of them have one, but mostly because it gets in the way of their chosen work, which is to destroy the human race and the planet. Human beings, who have imaginations, can see a recipe for disaster in the making; Republicans, whose goal in life is to profit from disaster and who don't give a hoot about human beings, either can't or won't. Which is why I personally think they should be exterminated before they cause any more harm." -- The Village Voice's Michael Feingold, in a theater review of all places
"I know how the 'tea party' people feel, the anger, venom and bile that many of them showed during the recent House vote on health-care reform. I know because I want to spit on them, take one of their 'Obama Plan White Slavery' signs and knock every racist and homophobic tooth out of their Cro-Magnon heads." -- The Washington Post's Courtland Milloy
Hmmmmm, sounds like incitement to violence.
My Congressman Eric Cantor, and you and your cupcake evil wife..." "Remember Eric...our judgment time, the final Yom Kippur has been given. You are a liar, you're a Lucifer, you're a pig, a greedy ****ing pig, you're an abomination, you receive my bullets in...your office, remember they will be placed in your heads. You and your children are Lucifer's abominations." -- Obama campaign contributor Norman Leboon
A Philadelphia man was charged today with threatening to kill House Republican Whip Eric Cantor and his family, the Washington Post reports. The threats came in the form of a YouTube video, which has been taken down.
Norman Leboon, 33, reportedly faces charges punishable by up to 15 years in prison, three years supervised release, a fine up to $500,000 and a $200 special assessment, according to the U.S. attorney's office.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001362-503544.html
There seems to be a strong correlation here, Laelth. I'm sure we can count on your best efforts and strongest condemnation of these leftists who have incited violence.
Any second now.....
-
You haven't engaged in anything but hollow easily disproven talking points that you culled from someone way smarter than yourself.
You've been called to the fight club.
I suggest you get there.
So we get now why it is being so elusive...can`t bear to admit what the left has been doing the last few days and is looking for applause.
Childish little imp.
-
And we're still waiting for any actual evidence from you nitwits that there was any causality related to anything said or done by a conservative. Haven't heard of any such evidence from the FBI, so if you have it I'm sure they'd appreciate you getting in contact with them. Some mention of Palin, Beck, et al, from the perpetrator? Books or videos by them in his possession? E-mails to them on his hard drive? Some quote from them showing up in his YouTube rants? A Rush Limbaugh necktie in his closet? Anything?
I have no such evidence, but that's not the point. Even if I had such evidence, it would not be relevant to the point I am making in this essay. So far, this is as much as I have said on the subject of Loughner's motivations:
"In all fairness to people on all sides of this issue, let me remark that it is entirely reasonable to assume a political motivation when a politician is killed. It is also entirely reasonable to assume that the killer comes from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Those are natural assumptions.
It is equally fair to say that we know nothing about the killer(s) motivations in this case, and well, we all know what usually happens when people assume things."
As I said above, Loughner's "true motivations" are not relevant for the purpose of this essay. As a result of this tragedy, politicians and pundits on the right do have an opportunity to reign in violent rhetoric in this country, and I am inviting them to take it.
-Laelth
-
As I said above, Loughner's "true motivations" are not relevant for the purpose of this essay. As a result of this tragedy, politicians and pundits on the right do have an opportunity to reign in violent rhetoric in this country, and I am inviting them to take it.
-Laelth
Yeah...it's not about the facts, it's about what you want it to be.
****ing piece of shit.
-
Read the news instead of running your mouth,there was also a Republican Federal judge killed.
From what I've seen, and please point me to your evidence if you have any, the Judge was not the target of the assassination attempt. I could be wrong about that, of course, but it appears Giffords was the intended target.
-Laelth
-
I have no such evidence, but that's not the point. Even if I had such evidence, it would not be relevant to the point I am making in this essay. So far, this is as much as I have said on the subject of Loughner's motivations:
"In all fairness to people on all sides of this issue, let me remark that it is entirely reasonable to assume a political motivation when a politician is killed. It is also entirely reasonable to assume that the killer comes from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Those are natural assumptions.
It is equally fair to say that we know nothing about the killer(s) motivations in this case, and well, we all know what usually happens when people assume things."
As I said above, Loughner's "true motivations" are not relevant for the purpose of this essay. As a result of this tragedy, politicians and pundits on the right do have an opportunity to reign in violent rhetoric in this country, and I am inviting them to take it.
-Laelth
Then all you are doing is using and event,in this case a monstrous crime and horrible tragedy ro somehow chill speech you consider politically effective against your cause and goals.
The method of dictators and despots.
-
Then all you are doing is using and event,in this case a monstrous crime and horrible tragedy ro somehow chill speech you consider politically effective against your cause and goals.
The method of dictators and despots.
Once again a Lib practicing the "do as I say not as I do" brand of politics/debate/discussion/way of life.
-
From what I've seen, and please point me to your evidence if you have any, the Judge was not the target of the assassination attempt. I could be wrong about that, of course, but it appears Giffords was the intended target.
-Laelth
And your evidence for this is what?
Oh yeah,the fact that he harassed her in 2007 before anyone heard of Sarah Palin.
In other words more actual evidence no one on the right influenced him but hey why let little inconveniences like that get in the way of an agenda.
One more thing,you have been called out to fight club and it is strongly advised you go.
We all want to see you make an argument on your own,without the audience you crave.
-
From what I've seen, and please point me to your evidence if you have any, the Judge was not the target of the assassination attempt. I could be wrong about that, of course, but it appears Giffords was the intended target.
-Laelth
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
So Laleth, when are you going to call for Obama--you know, the actual President of the United States--going to abase himself for his use of the knife/gun metaphor? And for calling for some political groups to "punish your enemies"? Looks like someone brought the gun, per spec. And punished.
-
Kudos for a rational, objective assessment.
In all fairness, though, to the extent I am "pointing fingers" in the essay above, I am not pointing exclusively at the right. I freely admit that lots of people are complicit here, and I am inviting the right to condemn violent rhetoric from any source--right or left or middle. The source does not matter to me.
-Laelth
You have no basis AT ALL to point fingers at the right. None. There is, though, considerable basis to point fingers at the left. YOU need to defend YOURSELF and the left; the right has nothing to apologize for or defend, nothing.
-
As I said above, Loughner's "true motivations" are not relevant for the purpose of this essay. As a result of this tragedy, politicians and pundits on the right do have an opportunity to reign in violent rhetoric in this country, and I am inviting them to take it.
-Laelth
You are, madam, without question, the most disingenuous person I have ever encountered.
-
The essay clearly states that this problem is not confined to the right. That said, and I apologize for using your particular response as an example because you're not the only one who has made this argument, but your post exemplifies the "childish defensiveness" I describe in the essay.
Bullshit.
Your main thrust has been that the left should say nothing and the right should condemn the violent rhetoric. We have shown you, over and over again, of how the left incites this type of behavior frequently.
Yet, you want them to remain silent while the right must condemn.
Uh, no!
My point is that you have no right, whatsoever, to demand any such thing until you can turn around and ensure the leftist filth you associate yourself with are clean first. You, as a leftist, have zero authority to demand any such thing until you fix your own.
These are the kinds of things my children say when they've been busted for inappropriate behavior:
"He started it!"
"He did it first!"
"He did it too!"
If one of my children breaks a lamp, I'll be damned that the guilty be allowed to demand the innocent apologize for it.
For the benefit of our country--the one you think you own
I spent 22 years of my life defending it, you are *******ed right I own it. I, and many others on here, swore an oath to the Constitution that we protected with our lives. We paid for it, we own it.
the one you may think I have no right to live in
Live in, yes. Remake into a Euro shitpile, no.
the one you may think I am trying to destroy, despite the fact that I live here too and am deeply invested in it
You're a leftist. Not only are you a leftist, but you are a leftist who is still spouting a leftist propaganda meme that has been clearly shot full of holes which means you are a dedicated leftist.
Honestly, there is not other conclusion other than you want to destroy the country as it was founded.
--for the sake of that country, whose Constiution I took an oath to defend
Unless it involved a uniform and a tour of duty, spare me the hysteronics; I don't want to hear it.
I am trying to sugget to politicians and pundits on the right that they have an opportunity to do the right thing, here, and I am inviting them to take that opportunity. Whether they take this opportunity will say a lot about them.
No, what you are wanting is for them to laterally admit culpability.
-
No one over there seems to be the least bit concerned that a conservative judge was killed...shocking, I know.
Cindie
-
I have no such evidence, but that's not the point. Even if I had such evidence, it would not be relevant to the point I am making in this essay. So far, this is as much as I have said on the subject of Loughner's motivations:
"In all fairness to people on all sides of this issue, let me remark that it is entirely reasonable to assume a political motivation when a politician is killed. It is also entirely reasonable to assume that the killer comes from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Those are natural assumptions.
It is equally fair to say that we know nothing about the killer(s) motivations in this case, and well, we all know what usually happens when people assume things."
As I said above, Loughner's "true motivations" are not relevant for the purpose of this essay. As a result of this tragedy, politicians and pundits on the right do have an opportunity to reign in violent rhetoric in this country, and I am inviting them to take it.
-Laelth
The left has the same opportunity, and more reason to avail themselves of it.
-
I have no such evidence, but that's not the point. Even if I had such evidence, it would not be relevant to the point I am making in this essay. So far, this is as much as I have said on the subject of Loughner's motivations:
"In all fairness to people on all sides of this issue, let me remark that it is entirely reasonable to assume a political motivation when a politician is killed. It is also entirely reasonable to assume that the killer comes from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Those are natural assumptions.
It is equally fair to say that we know nothing about the killer(s) motivations in this case, and well, we all know what usually happens when people assume things."
As I said above, Loughner's "true motivations" are not relevant for the purpose of this essay. As a result of this tragedy, politicians and pundits on the right do have an opportunity to reign in violent rhetoric in this country, and I am inviting them to take it.
-Laelth
Nope. Unless Loughner's behavior can somehow be shown as directly tied to this speech you rail against, he is completely tangential to the discussion.
It's the equivalent to pointing at an auto accident caused by someone speeding but sober and using it as a example of why tougher drunk driving laws are needed. It's specious.
You're not fooling anyone. By constantly invoking the image of the Congresswoman's murder in the context of calling for restrictions on speech you are directly trying to imply causality, bypassing evidence, and plant that image in everyone's mind. It's a cheap trick, and shallow, but like I said, you're fooling no one.
-
She's run off. Like all libs, no real guts. No real brains, either.
-
Your hypocrisy is absolutely stunning! You are an active member on one of the most hateful sites on the Internet, Democratic Underground.
Your DU stats:
Member since Oct 16th 2004
Number of posts 11515
Avatar Image
Gender male
City Macon
State GA
Country USA
Hobby gardening, masonry, and making the world a better place
Comment Laelth is a licensed, Georgia attorney. He took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and he meant it.
Your astonishing refusal to see and admit the fact that DU and other Left Wing sites incites, admires and gives credibility to hate filled, violent political rhetoric and has been actively fanning the flames for 10 years does not speak to your ability to critically, objectively observe evidence. I do hope that you screen potential clients for political affiliations before you take their money for representation. To attempt representation of a politically conservative client would hardly be fair.
-
Bullshit.
Your main thrust has been that the left should say nothing and the right should condemn the violent rhetoric. We have shown you, over and over again, of how the left incites this type of behavior frequently.
Yet, you want them to remain silent while the right must condemn.
Uh, no!
My point is that you have no right, whatsoever, to demand any such thing until you can turn around and ensure the leftist filth you associate yourself with are clean first. You, as a leftist, have zero authority to demand any such thing until you fix your own.
If one of my children breaks a lamp, I'll be damned that the guilty be allowed to demand the innocent apologize for it.
I spent 22 years of my life defending it, you are *******ed right I own it. I, and many others on here, swore an oath to the Constitution that we protected with our lives. We paid for it, we own it.
Live in, yes. Remake into a Euro shitpile, no.
You're a leftist. Not only are you a leftist, but you are a leftist who is still spouting a leftist propaganda meme that has been clearly shot full of holes which means you are a dedicated leftist.
Honestly, there is not other conclusion other than you want to destroy the country as it was founded.
Unless it involved a uniform and a tour of duty, spare me the hysteronics; I don't want to hear it.
No, what you are wanting is for them to laterally admit culpability.
IMHO...post of the day.
Well done sir.
-
I've got a bone to pick with you...you double talking feather merchant.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
What I have said is that politicians and pundits on the right have a golden opportunity to do something about it. We'll see how they respond.
-Laelth
-
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
What I have said is that politicians and pundits on the right have a golden opportunity to do something about it. We'll see how they respond.
-Laelth
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
If you want to discuss...follow the link. I'm not going to help you swell your ego in front of the lurking asshats you've brought over from OET.
-
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
What I have said is that politicians and pundits on the right have a golden opportunity to do something about it. We'll see how they respond.
-Laelth
Again, most disingenuous...
We're to assume one or two things here from Laelth's statement:
1) She has such compassion for dissenting opinions, she's attempting to preserve the continuing existence of the conservative movement by pointing out how grand it would be were they to "take the lead" in showing obeisance to the administration's agenda, or
2) The left has no such need for this advice, given that they either never participate in such "hate speech," or are entitled to do so, by virtue of the inherent rightesousness of their worldview.
I see no other reason for the ridiculous wordplay she's employing here.
-
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
What I have said is that politicians and pundits on the right have a golden opportunity to do something about it. We'll see how they respond.
-Laelth
No insipid little fool and you were warned about the word games and double speak.
If the right has a reason to speak up then the left does as well.
Now either answer the points made in front of your minions or this can be tossed in fight club and we will see how much you want to carry on there away from public eyes.
End of the line for bullshit.
-
IMHO...post of the day.
Well done sir.
Thank you, Staff Sergeant, that is high praise indeed.
-
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
If you want to discuss...follow the link. I'm not going to help you swell your ego in front of the lurking asshats you've brought over from OET.
Perhaps the solution would be to move this entire thread over the FC, TRG
-
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
What I have said is that politicians and pundits on the right have a golden opportunity to do something about it. We'll see how they respond.
-Laelth
And as I said, the left has the exact same opportunity, if we grant your unwarranted/non-evidence-backed assumption that political rhetoric is somehow behind Loughner's rampage. You are saying that the right has some greater onus. Care to explain that?
-
Perhaps the solution would be to move this entire thread over the FC, TRG
Mods?
-
Mods?
I am in agreement.
-
Kudos for a rational, objective assessment.
In all fairness, though, to the extent I am "pointing fingers" in the essay above, I am not pointing exclusively at the right. I freely admit that lots of people are complicit here, and I am inviting the right to condemn violent rhetoric from any source--right or left or middle. The source does not matter to me.
-Laelth
What violent rhetoric from the right, asshole? Where's your list like the the many we have provided about you insane, violent, lefties?
Put up or shut up!
Here's mine, where's yours??????? (http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/)
If you try one more time to say putting crosshairs on a map promotes violence, you should be thrown outa here faster than a tennis shoe smeared with dog shit! You're stinkin' up the place!
-
Wow.... The "right" does not need to apologize for anything because they have not done anything to inspire the type of leftist violence that you quoted in your post. Yet, you still believe they need to be the ones to get out in front of this by doing the "right thing".
Interesting.
I hope you don't use that same tactic in court, juris doctorate. A half awake opponent would make you a laughing stock in very quick order.
I didn't ask the right to apologize. I asked the right to condemn violent, hateful rhetoric (from whatever source-left, right, or middle). That would be the right thing to do under these circumstances.
-Laelth
-
Here we have a perfect example of the result of being cloistered for so long in a shielded environment such as that at DU.
Laelth thinks that he/she can use the same illogical syllogisms and circular arguments used within the confines of the Hive to reinforce one another's beliefs at a site like CC where objectivity and evidence is demanded.
It's not working out too well for him/her, and is evidence of why they so rarely venture outside their echo chamber.
Next DUmmy, please.
-
I didn't ask the right to apologize. I asked the right to condemn violent, hateful rhetoric (from whatever source-left, right, or middle). That would be the right thing to do under these circumstances.
-Laelth
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
The politicals hacks of the left ARE using this tragedy for political posturing (to pass gun laws and hate speech laws as we are already seeing now: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html), and riling people up with propaganda in the process. In short, the left, and especially the biased media, is fanning the flames of hatred, the very thing that conservatives were accused of.
That may be, and it's unfortunate. As I have argued, anything politicans and pundits on the left say now will be dismissed as politcal posturing. The left really doesn't have the opportunity, at this time, to call for reigning in the hateful, violent rhetoric that passes for political discourse in America these days.
As I have also said, I think it would be wise for leaders on the left to be silent on this issue, confining their comments to grief for the victims and their families. As it so happens, leaders on the left listen to me about as often and about as well as do my fellow members of Conservtive Cave. LOL.
-Laelth
-
The left really doesn't have the opportunity, at this time, to call for reigning in the hateful, violent rhetoric that passes for political discourse in America these days.
You keep saying this. Why "don't they really have the opportunity?" Are their fingers broken? Have they become deaf/mutes? Are they in FEMA concentration camps? Are there no TV shows that they are welcome? Blogs?
-
That may be, and it's unfortunate. As I have argued, anything politicans and pundits on the left say now will be dismissed as politcal posturing. The left really doesn't have the opportunity, at this time, to call for reigning in the hateful, violent rhetoric that passes for political discourse in America these days.
As I have also said, I think it would be wise for leaders on the left to be silent on this issue, confining their comments to grief for the victims and their families. As it so happens, leaders on the left listen to me about as often and about as well as do my fellow members of Conservtive Cave. LOL.
-Laelth
You are setting up an answer to the when did you stop beating your wife question and no one is taking the bait.
If someone on the left wanted to they could and site examples from that side...in fact wouldn`t it be great if Obama did just that and made mention of his own antagonistic words.
We have them posted here if he needs someone to load them into the teleprompter for him.
-
That may be, and it's unfortunate. As I have argued, anything politicans and pundits on the left say now will be dismissed as politcal posturing. The left really doesn't have the opportunity, at this time, to call for reigning in the hateful, violent rhetoric that passes for political discourse in America these days.
As I have also said, I think it would be wise for leaders on the left to be silent on this issue, confining their comments to grief for the victims and their families. As it so happens, leaders on the left listen to me about as often and about as well as do my fellow members of Conservtive Cave. LOL.
-Laelth
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,53847.msg605346.html#new
-
That may be, and it's unfortunate. As I have argued, anything politicans and pundits on the left say now will be dismissed as politcal posturing. The left really doesn't have the opportunity, at this time, to call for reigning in the hateful, violent rhetoric that passes for political discourse in America these days.
As I have also said, I think it would be wise for leaders on the left to be silent on this issue, confining their comments to grief for the victims and their families. As it so happens, leaders on the left listen to me about as often and about as well as do my fellow members of Conservtive Cave. LOL.
-Laelth
And anything the right says will be interpreted as an admission of culpability, as you well know--and want. So, I say it would be "wise" for leaders/speakers/celebrities on the right to "remain silent." But the left? I see their silence as cowardly.
Why do you so casually assume that anything the left says will be dismissed as "political posturing"? Certainly not by the slavish MSM. If Obama or Keith Olbermann came out today and said, with sincerity, "I apologize for many intemperate and violent metaphors I've used in my speaking," why would these simply be "dismissed"? As posturing for what?
Well, I'll answer that question, as it's partly rhetorical--you don't assume that at all. You're asserting that as an easy (but not even remotley substantiated) out for the left in your "argument."
You can also respond, if you want to.
-
That may be, and it's unfortunate. As I have argued, anything politicans and pundits on the left say now will be dismissed as politcal posturing. The left really doesn't have the opportunity, at this time, to call for reigning in the hateful, violent rhetoric that passes for political discourse in America these days.
As I have also said, I think it would be wise for leaders on the left to be silent on this issue, confining their comments to grief for the victims and their families. As it so happens, leaders on the left listen to me about as often and about as well as do my fellow members of Conservtive Cave. LOL.
-Laelth
Hmmmmmmmmm.....could that be because you're so full of shit?????
-
There seems to be a strong correlation here, Laelth. I'm sure we can count on your best efforts and strongest condemnation of these leftists who have incited violence.
Any second now.....
I hereby strongly condemn any and all leftists who have employed rhetoric that might lead to acts of violence.
Is that really what you wanted? Seriously, take a look at what I have written. I do have readers who think that violent revolution is the best solution to our national problems. Time and again I have stated my firm belief that revolutions are bloody, nasty, unpredictable affairs, and that I have no desire to see another revolution in the United States--for the sake of my children, my friends, and my country. Violence is not a good solution, nor is it healthy for our political discourse to be so charged with violent rhetori, and I condemn that rhetoric, regardless of its source.
-Laelth
-
I didn't ask the right to apologize. I asked the right to condemn violent, hateful rhetoric (from whatever source-left, right, or middle). That would be the right thing to do under these circumstances.
-Laelth
TRG has continuously given you a link to a thread he started in the FightClub and you ignore it.
I suggest you go down there and respond before this goes any farther. Or I'll be forced to move this whole thread down there.
Either you are showing cowardice by refusing to engage and answer the questions he has posed in that thread, or he has nailed you correctly and you're too enamored with the limelight of showing off to lurking members of OET to debate this away from their glowing admiration.
Choice is yours.
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x172044
It seems Laelth wanted to draw a bigger crowd.
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x172044
It seems Laelth wanted to draw a bigger crowd.
And in typical Libtard fashion he plays to the lowest common denominator over there and puts in bold the word right.
Talk about stirring up hate. And using inflammatory speech.
-
Hello Carl,
I think the left needs to be silent on this issue and confine its comments to grief over the dead and wounded. As I said in the essay, the left can't effectively address this problem in this environment. Anything the left says will be condemned as political posturing. Only politicians and pundits on the right have the opportunity to do the right thing here.
Thanks for the response.
-Laelth
Sure it can. The shooter was a f'n moonbat, just like all you morons at DU.
-
Laelth (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Jan-11-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. This essay makes it hard for them to play their favorite card--the victim card.
It's outrageous that there are six dead people and thirteen wounded, yet somehow the right acts like Sarah Palin is the victim here. Perhaps they can be shamed into doing the right thing.
-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
Sarah Palin is the most popular scapegoat of the left right now. There is nothing 'victim card' about that.
-
From what I've seen, and please point me to your evidence if you have any, the Judge was not the target of the assassination attempt. I could be wrong about that, of course, but it appears Giffords was the intended target.
-Laelth
And that has to do with Sarah Palin how?
And that has to do with the right how?
OK, I need to get this straight, some kook commits a horrendous crime, your side automatically jumps to conclusions about what drove this kook over the edge instead of saying the guy is just a kook and mentally unhinged, your elected officials with the D's after their name start point the finger at the R's, and you want us to condemn what you perceive as violent rhetoric from our side WHEN the past and present have proven the left is hundreds of times more violent when it comes to political discourse, and all of a sudden it's become violent rhetoric when your side loses an argument and elections but it's free speech when you guys win elections?
I think a freaking apology is in order from the left in the way they've treated this whole crime for their own nefarious purposes.
-
I hereby strongly condemn any and all leftists who have employed rhetoric that might lead to acts of violence.
Bravo! Now, turn your ass around, go back to the leftist filth at the DUmp and OET, and clean up your own house before you say anything else. Encourage your leftist brethren to do the same, not stay silent. They are the ones you should be exhorting to calm down before you recommend anyone else does.
As has been pointed out to you over and over and over....
Seriously, take a look at what I have written.
We all have, dear.
Left, stay silent! Right, condemn!
The sniveling crap about "both sides do it" notwithstanding.
I do have readers who think that violent revolution is the best solution to our national problems.
Then maybe you should find a better class of people to hang out with. Leftists (especially the DUmp) are full of that kind of crap.
Evolve, lawyer.
Time and again I have stated my firm belief that revolutions are bloody, nasty, unpredictable affairs, and that I have no desire to see another revolution in the United States
When, pray tell, did you witness the last one? Were the rest of us asleep or are you almost 250 years old?
And please tell me that someone who has attended law school knows the damn difference between revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution) and war for independence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence)...
for the sake of my children, my friends, and my country.
Don't you mean what you want to remake the country?
Violence is not a good solution, nor is it healthy for our political discourse to be so charged with violent rhetori, and I condemn that rhetoric, regardless of its source.
Good, now go clean up your damn house before you demand anymore unwarranted admission of culpability from those who have none.
-
"In all fairness to people on all sides of this issue, let me remark that it is entirely reasonable to assume a political motivation when a politician is killed. It is also entirely reasonable to assume that the killer comes from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Those are natural assumptions.
Really? why?
•It was not the fear of conservative violence that caused Ann Coulter's speech to be cancelled this week.
•It was a liberal who bit the finger off a man who disagreed with him on healthcare.
•It was Obama-loving Amy Bishop who took a gun to work and murdered co-workers.
•Joseph Stack flew his plane into the IRS building after writing an anti-conservative manifesto.
•It was liberals who destroyed AM radio towers outside of Seattle.
•It's liberals who burn down Hummer dealerships.
•It was progressive SEIU union thugs who beat a blaack conservative man who spoke his mind.
•It's doubtful that a conservative fired shotss into a GOP campaign headquarters.
•In fact, Democrats have no monopoly on having their offices vandalized.
•Don't forget it was Obama's friend Bill Ayers who used terrorism as a tool for political change. SDS is still radical, with arrests in 2007 and the storming of the CATO Institute in July 2008.
•It was a liberal who was sentenced to two years for bringing bombs and riot shields to the Republican National Convention in 2008.
•It was a liberal who threatened to kill a government informant who infiltrated her Austin-based group that planned to bomb the RNC.
•It was liberals who assaulted police in Berkeley.
•It was liberals who intimidated and threw rocks through the windows of researchers.
•The two Black Panthers who stood outside polls intimidating people with nightsticks were probably not right-wingers.
•Every time the G20 gets together, it's not conservatives who destroy property and cause chaos.
-
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
What I have said is that politicians and pundits on the right have a golden opportunity to do something about it. We'll see how they respond.
-Laelth
So are we to assume you called on your fellow political allies at DU and OET via a posted message to call the DNC and tell them to tone down the violent rhetoric?
-
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
What I have said is that politicians and pundits on the right have a golden opportunity to do something about it. We'll see how they respond.
-Laelth
Aren't attorneys supposed to deal in facts?
Loughner was a 9/11 troofer, anti-war, reader of marx.
Try offering evidence for once.
-
Laelth (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Jan-11-11 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. This essay makes it hard for them to play their favorite card--the victim card.
It's outrageous that there are six dead people and thirteen wounded, yet somehow the right acts like Sarah Palin is the victim here. Perhaps they can be shamed into doing the right thing.
-Laelth
Your "essay" is garbage and you have had your ass nailed on it right here.
BTW, isn't it nice that you are able to present a differing point of view without being banned?
-
Really? why?
Because the OET pseudo intellectual sage said so. Now, I know I've seen this happen on here before, but I can't seem to remember who did it....
:whatever:
-
Your "essay" is garbage and you have had your ass nailed on it right here.
BTW, isn't it nice that you are able to present a differing point of view without being banned?
Plus post openly about it on other sites although I am not sure Laelth should be all that proud of their performance here.
I suppose proving an accusation by repeating the accusation is what passes for debate and discussion at OET and the DUmp so fitting.
-
I suppose proving an accusation by repeating the accusation is what passes for debate and discussion at OET and the DUmp so fitting.
Well, they are liberals.....
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x172044
It seems Laelth wanted to draw a bigger crowd.
This whole thing is nothin' more than Bull Shit in the first place! lilith writes that free speech is basically to blame for this nut job shootin' people!
I've got news, nut jobs don't need any reason to kill people! If the left couldn't blame it on the right's politics, they would blame it on their T-shirts, or their socks, or their tidy whities for cryin' out loud!
Nut jobs are nut jobs! Sarah Palin tellin' 'em to play nice is going to do the same exact thing as tellin' 'em the devil is livin' in their closet and comin' out and suckin' their toes every night!!
So take your straw man and go home LittleHeathen!
ETA:
Bravo! Now, turn your ass around, go back to the leftist filth at the DUmp and OET, and clean up your own house before you say anything else. Encourage your leftist brethren to do the same, not stay silent. They are the ones you should be exhorting to calm down before you recommend anyone else does.
As has been pointed out to you over and over and over....
We all have, dear.
Left, stay silent! Right, condemn!
The sniveling crap about "both sides do it" notwithstanding.
Then maybe you should find a better class of people to hang out with. Leftists (especially the DUmp) are full of that kind of crap.
Evolve, lawyer.
When, pray tell, did you witness the last one? Were the rest of us asleep or are you almost 250 years old?
And please tell me that someone who has attended law school knows the damn difference between revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution) and war for independence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence)...
Don't you mean what you want to remake the country?
Good, now go clean up your damn house before you demand anymore unwarranted admission of culpability from those who have none.
The problem with the left callin' for revolution is they want someone else to do it! they don't want to have to get off the couch in order to get their ass kicked, and get their ass kicked they will!
Besides, the last thing they should want is armed revolution against the right! We practice it! In the military, most police departments, and everyday conservs going to the shootin' range once a month! Hell I've got one in the back 40! Not a weekend goes by that someone doesn't come by to use it!
Be careful what you wish for libbers! Ya just might get it one of these days and you won't be happy with the outcome!
-
What the hell does "rhetoric" of any kind have to do with a nutcase with a 3 year obsession with Giffords finally going off the deep end? Have you seen any of the political commentary from the early days of this nation. Americans don't mince words. There's something magnificent about that.
Cindie
-
What the hell does "rhetoric" of any kind have to do with a nutcase with a 3 year obsession with Giffords finally going off the deep end? Have you seen any of the political commentary from the early days of this nation. Americans don't mince words. There's something magnificent about that.
Cindie
According to the esteemed lawyer from OET...the conservative media drove him to it.
-
What the hell does "rhetoric" of any kind have to do with a nutcase with a 3 year obsession with Giffords finally going off the deep end?
Cindie
It's another way for the lunatic left to try to get their "enemies" to admit some kind of blame. Remember how many times the media tried to get President Bush to admit anything he had done in Iraq was a mistake? If he had fallen for it, the headlines across the world would have screamed how Bush admitted he shouldn't have invaded Iraq.
Same crap, different butthole.
-
And anything the right says will be interpreted as an admission of culpability, as you well know--and want. So, I say it would be "wise" for leaders/speakers/celebrities on the right to "remain silent." But the left? I see their silence as cowardly.
Very interesting. Would it be seen as an admission of culpability on the part of the right? I am not sure about that. When Jon Stewart was making this argument (as he has been for the past several months), I don't recall people saying that he was admitting his own culpability.
Why do you so casually assume that anything the left says will be dismissed as "political posturing"? Certainly not by the slavish MSM. If Obama or Keith Olbermann came out today and said, with sincerity, "I apologize for many intemperate and violent metaphors I've used in my speaking," why would these simply be "dismissed"? As posturing for what?
Well, I'll answer that question, as it's partly rhetorical--you don't assume that at all. You're asserting that as an easy (but not even remotley substantiated) out for the left in your "argument."
Hasn't it been? Seriously, who here is taking to heart what Sheriff Dupnik has been saying since the tragedy? Who here is defending him? Are his comments not being dismissed as political posturing?
You can also respond, if you want to.
As you may have seen, txradioguy has been keeping me very busy in another thread, but I am glad you invited a response, and I am interested in exploring this topic if you are.
-Laelth
-
I shared it on Reddit, but no. OET is my home, now, and I am not sending it to another publisher.
Yet you posted this screed to your window licking paint chip eating friends at DU.
You can't even be honest with the people at what you call your "home".
And I never thought I'd say this...but ATJ had it right from the start on your little rant over there.
-
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x172044
It seems Laelth wanted to draw a bigger crowd.
I do seek a wider audience for my writing. I was particularly pleased that USA4ME posted the essay here.
-Laelth
-
I do seek a wider audience for my writing. I was particularly pleased that USA4ME posted the essay here.
-Laelth
Seems you've committed perjury counselor.
-
TRG has continuously given you a link to a thread he started in the FightClub and you ignore it.
I suggest you go down there and respond before this goes any farther. Or I'll be forced to move this whole thread down there.
Either you are showing cowardice by refusing to engage and answer the questions he has posed in that thread, or he has nailed you correctly and you're too enamored with the limelight of showing off to lurking members of OET to debate this away from their glowing admiration.
Choice is yours.
It's not my thread. Feel free to move it, though I apprecate your consulting with me on it. You may want to consult USA4ME, as it's his thread, but I am not sure how you normally handle these kinds of things.
-Laelth
-
And in typical Libtard fashion he plays to the lowest common denominator over there and puts in bold the word right.
Talk about stirring up hate. And using inflammatory speech.
What's bolded is the word "right" in the following context, with all the following words bolded, "the right thing to do." And the "right thing to do" according to my essay is to condemn violent rhetoric.
That's playing to the least common denominator? That's stirring up hate? You have got to be kidding. You're stretching.
-Laelth
-
So are we to assume you called on your fellow political allies at DU and OET via a posted message to call the DNC and tell them to tone down the violent rhetoric?
Had a Republican been the intended target of a political assasination by a nut-case who's got anti-government (and not just anti-liberal government) YouTube videos, I would. Yes.
-Laelth
-
And I never thought I'd say this...but ATJ had it right from the start on your little rant over there.
He did? What did the "scary orator" have to say?
-
Aren't attorneys supposed to deal in facts?
Loughner was a 9/11 troofer, anti-war, reader of marx.
Try offering evidence for once.
We know very little about Loughner's beliefs, but I don't think his specific beliefs are relevant.
-Laelth
-
What's bolded is the word "right" in the following context, with all the following words bolded, "the right thing to do." And the "right thing to do" according to my essay is to condemn violent rhetoric.
That's playing to the least common denominator? That's stirring up hate? You have got to be kidding. You're stretching.
-Laelth
No...saying that the right and ONLY the right should stand up and take ownership...blame...apologize for something they weren't responsible for is "stretching".
Those folks over there...like you claim to be the smartest people in the world...ask them...the'll tell you. There's no need to bold specific letters for "context" with that enlightened bunch.
There's only one reason to do that. You know it and I know it. It's no different than blowing up pictures 1000 times their normal size and placing them where the jury can see them when you're giving your closing argument.
You want the jury...in this case the morons at the DUmp...to fixate on just that one piece of the photo...just that one little tiny fraction of what you are saying to them...until that is the only part they remember.
You know exactly what you're doing...quit trying to pretend otherwise.
-
Your "essay" is garbage and you have had your ass nailed on it right here.
BTW, isn't it nice that you are able to present a differing point of view without being banned?
And you're a charming, respectful person with impeccable manners. I am sure your mother is proud.
But it is highly commendable of this site to allow dissenting voices to be freely heard. Highly commendable. Still, I have to remind everyone that USA4ME posted my essay here. I just came here (today) to defend myself. I didn't exactly "invite" this kind, respectful treatment. LOL.
-Laelth
-
He did? What did the "scary orator" have to say?
From Laelth's OET screed in response to the nonsense of the OP ATJ said:
Still waiting to see how a nihilist atheist that was ranting that his grades were unconstitutional has any connection to Sara Palin or Glenn Beck.
Sorry guys, I'm a lefty, and if you can't convince me, you aren't getting anywhere with the moderates.
game...set...match.
-
We know very little about Loughner's beliefs, but I don't think his specific beliefs are relevant.
-Laelth
Because he's a lib, right? How convenient. If he were a conservative you fruitbats would be freaking out like the f'n Tasmanian Devil demanding the Fairness Doctrine and the incarceration of Beck, Palin, Rush, et al.
-
We know very little about Loughner's beliefs, but I don't think his specific beliefs are relevant.
-Laelth
I dare you to tell a judge (assuming your claim to be a lawyer is true) that the facts and evidence are not relevant to the case.
-
But it is highly commendable of this site to allow dissenting voices to be freely heard. Highly commendable.
-Laelth
Conservatives aren't afraid of liberal speech. Honestly, the more you talk, the better it is for us. It is NOT the same with the left. You people want dissenting voices shut down.
-
Conservatives aren't afraid of liberal speech. Honestly, the more you talk, the better it is for us. It is NOT the same with the left. You people want dissenting voices shut down.
Which is why this OET nut has come up with the silly theory that the left stays quiet while the right apologizes for everything in relation to the Giffords shooting.
-
Yet you posted this screed to your window licking paint chip eating friends at DU.
You can't even be honest with the people at what you call your "home".
And I never thought I'd say this...but ATJ had it right from the start on your little rant over there.
I only posted a snippet from of it on DU, and I can't directly link from DU to OET, as you know.
btw, how is this relevant? Just doing your best to make me look bad? A pure ad hominem argument? Weak.
-Laelth
-
Seems you've committed perjury counselor.
Huh? That's a very serious (and stupid) accusation, my esteemed friend. One must make a statement under oath in order to commit perjury.
More, weak ad hominem attacks from you. I am sure you can do better.
-Laelth
-
From Laelth's OET screed in response to the nonsense of the OP ATJ said:
game...set...match.
Ah, thank you.
I agree with the little shit, too. Hmmmmm, did my cat hump my dog last night or something?
-
I only posted a snippet from of it on DU, and I can't directly link from DU to OET, as you know.
btw, how is this relevant? Just doing your best to make me look bad? A pure ad hominem argument? Weak.
-Laelth
You made the claim that you weren't posting it anywhere other than redit and OET.
Goes towards credibility counselor.
If you can't even be honest with the people who are like Pavlov's dogs in their fawning admiration (ATJ excluded) of your tripe...how can we believe the veracity of the rest of what you wrote?
-
Huh? That's a very serious (and stupid) accusation, my esteemed friend. One must make a statement under oath in order to commit perjury.
More, weak ad hominem attacks from you. I am sure you can do better.
-Laelth
Ok how about this. You lied your ass off to your fawning sycophant quislings at that pathetic excuse for a website.
You told them you weren't going to publish that screed at anyplace but the two you listed.
Instead to stroke your oversized ego even more you went and gave red meat to the attack dogs at DU.
Is that in a more clear and accurate form of the English language for you?
-
It's 2am here. I'm done with this Lib for the night.
If it's still around in the morning I'll address whatever silliness it left on the carpet in the FC thread in the morning.
Duces!
-
You know exactly what you're doing...quit trying to pretend otherwise.
You're bound and determined to see me as evil incarnate. That's simply not rational, and it makes rational discourse with you impossible. If you could possibly bring yourself to believe, for just a little while, that I am honest and well intentioned and that I actually mean what I am saying, things might be different.
But I'll take what I can get from you. Even your hatred is preferable to apathy.
-Laelth
-
And you're a charming, respectful person with impeccable manners.
I know. What you are seeing is my low threshold for bullshit. You must excuse my straightforward delivery; I value honesty above all else and don't suffer flip flopping fools well.
Then again, I could give a damn about your passive-aggressive bullshit, either.
I am sure your mother is proud.
As an honorably retired veteran that stood the line, she is. More than you will ever know.
But it is highly commendable of this site to allow dissenting voices to be freely heard. Highly commendable.
Can you say the same for the DUmp? You post here at will, circular logic and all. Funny how Conservatives have no fear of what you have to say, isn't it?
Still, I have to remind everyone that USA4ME posted my essay here. I just came here (today) to defend myself. I didn't exactly "invite" this kind, respectful treatment.
You didn't just come here "today", sweetheart, you have been a registered member for quite a while. While you do get credit for attempting to justify the brain cramp you typed out, you don't earn much for being so intellectually dishonest that you can't see the evidence when it's put in front of you.
Oh, and when you pretend to be some high and mighty intellectual, you will get honest and unfiltered responses. You may not have much experience dealing with honest people, counselor, so try not to get your panties in too tight of a twist when we don't bow before your "intellect" and tell you you're full of shit.
-
You're bound and determined to see me as evil incarnate. That's simply not rational, and it makes rational discourse with you impossible. If you could possibly bring yourself to believe, for just a little while, that I am honest and well intentioned and that I actually mean what I am saying, things might be different.
But I'll take what I can get from you. Even your hatred is preferable to apathy.
-Laelth
You essentially said Palin and the right is to blame for a liberal shooting a Democrat politician in the head and that the right is the only one that can address this.
Yeah, I'd pretty much say you're f'ed up in the head.
-
You're bound and determined to see me as evil incarnate. That's simply not rational, and it makes rational discourse with you impossible. If you could possibly bring yourself to believe, for just a little while, that I am honest and well intentioned and that I actually mean what I am saying, things might be different.
But I'll take what I can get from you. Even your hatred is preferable to apathy.
-Laelth
How can you even begin to proclaim you are honest and well intentioned.
Your screed was that conservatives need to make a statement condemning "something" and thus take defacto responsibility for it.
Meanwhile liberals shouldn`t do anything because it would look political despite the FACT that all they have been doing since Saturday is play politics with tragedy.
Your whole premise is idiotic and when you have been asked how you can justify the statements you simply repeat them.
That is intellectually vacant or just plain lazy.
-
Because he's a lib, right? How convenient. If he were a conservative you fruitbats would be freaking out like the f'n Tasmanian Devil demanding the Fairness Doctrine and the incarceration of Beck, Palin, Rush, et al.
I suspect, in time, we'll discover that Loughner's beliefs (at the moment, and they seem to have changed recently) are anti-political, i.e. anti-government in general. But my beliefs are not relevant in this context. The guy appears to be criminally insane, but I do believe that violent rhetoric leads nuts to act. It does not matter whether the violent rhetoric comes from the left or from the right.
And have never called for the criminalization of speech, though some have. I am not here to defend them.
-Laelth
-
game...set...match.
This is not a game. Real people are dead and wounded.
-Laelth
-
This is not a game. Real people are dead and wounded.
-Laelth
Who politicized it? The right? Or the left? Libs came right out of the gate trying to demonize Palin, Beck, the right and win political points and it's been proven that it was calculated by the left.
http://biggovernment.com/jhoft/2011/01/09/breaking-democrats-plotted-to-blame-tea-party-for-slaughter/
-
Which is why this OET nut has come up with the silly theory that the left stays quiet while the right apologizes for everything in relation to the Giffords shooting.
Sigh. I never said a word about apologizing. I invited right-wing pols. and pundits to condemn violent rhetoric (no matter what its source).
You can't change what I wrote, though I know you want to.
-Laelth
-
The guy appears to be criminally insane, but I do believe that violent rhetoric leads nuts to act. It does not matter whether the violent rhetoric comes from the left or from the right.
So, why does the left (who you have been clearly shown are the leaders in violent rhetoric) get to stay quiet and the right get to condemn something for which they have no responsibility?
And try not to repeat yourself, please; an intellectually honest answer will suffice.
-
I do seek a wider audience for my writing. I was particularly pleased that USA4ME posted the essay here.
-Laelth
Oh puhleeeeeeeeeeeze!
You're just a stinkin' attention whore! Nothin' you write is even remotely worthy of attention, yet you post the slime all over the place like some pervert on a restroom wall writin' " For a good time call Leechth"!
ETA:
We know very little about Loughner's beliefs, but I don't think his specific beliefs are relevant.
-Laelth
WTF???????????
Your series aren't ya DUm****? Now, you have lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned! You do know he is the one who pulled the trigger, right? And his beliefs aren't relevant?????
Only from a lib, only from a ****in' lib! And ya wonder why we think liberalism is a mental disorder!
-
So, why does the left (who you have been clearly shown are the leaders in violent rhetoric) get to stay quiet and the right get to condemn something for which they have no responsibility?
And try not to repeat yourself, please; an intellectually honest answer will suffice.
As most libs here do,it will ignore that or change the subject.
-
Can you say the same for the DUmp? You post here at will, circular logic and all. Funny how Conservatives have no fear of what you have to say, isn't it?
No. I can not say the same for DU, and I will not defend DU. And I think you (and others) are showing a lot of fear regarding what I have to say, but that's just my interpretation.
You didn't just come here "today", sweetheart, you have been a registered member for quite a while. While you do get credit for attempting to justify the brain cramp you typed out, you don't earn much for being so intellectually dishonest that you can't see the evidence when it's put in front of you.
I would not have posted here today had not my essay been posted in this thread. That's what I meant by "I came here today," and I suspect you know that and are not engaging me in good faith.
Oh, and when you pretend to be some high and mighty intellectual, you will get honest and unfiltered responses. You may not have much experience dealing with honest people, counselor, so try not to get your panties in too tight of a twist when we don't bow before your "intellect" and tell you you're full of shit.
Indeed. "Full of shit" is in the eye of the beholder. I've been treated to a lot of it today. :)
-Laelth
-
I dare you to tell a judge (assuming your claim to be a lawyer is true) that the facts and evidence are not relevant to the case.
His beliefs are not relevant to the argument I make in my essay. Violent rhetoric leads to tragedy, no matter what its source. That's my point.
-Laelth
-
You essentially said Palin and the right is to blame for a liberal shooting a Democrat politician in the head and that the right is the only one that can address this.
Yeah, I'd pretty much say you're f'ed up in the head.
I didn't say that at all, though that may have been what you heard.
-Laelth
-
His beliefs are not relevant to the argument I make in my essay. Violent rhetoric leads to tragedy, no matter what its source. That's my point.
-Laelth
Which for any sane person means, ya don't have a ****in' clue what is!
And quit callin' that garbage an essay! As if! It's nothin' more than a MoonBat political opinion!
-
Now, you have lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned!
:lmao: Now that's funny. I have never had any credibility with you, and that's why I don't respond to you.
-Laelth
-
:lmao: Now that's funny. I have never had any credibility with you, and that's why I don't respond to you.
-Laelth
You're right! For once in your life, ya got somethin' right!
I do tend to scrape the dog shit off my tennies before I walk into the house!
You don't respond because to you "Relevant" means the same to you as "is" did to your former "rapist in chief"!
-
His beliefs are not relevant to the argument I make in my essay. Violent rhetoric leads to tragedy, no matter what its source. That's my point.
-Laelth
Okay fine...leftists have not been all that gung ho on the war against Islamofacists and as a result there are American soldiers,innocent people and children being killed daily in their jihad.
I think the left should call upon the terrorists to end their war and their hateful the hateful rhetoric of calling us infidels.
Only the left can do this as they will be seen as having credibility and not trying to make political gain.
Go for it.
-
Had a Republican been the intended target of a political assasination by a nut-case who's got anti-government (and not just anti-liberal government) YouTube videos, I would. Yes.
-Laelth
The person targeted wasn't targeted though because they were a Democrat, she was targeted by a kook for a kook reason, so politics shouldn't even come into play here should it? to get political for a moment, this kook from what it looks like sided with the extreme left, so where's your post calling for the left to call their leaders to denounce all the political rhetoric they use?
-
The person targeted wasn't targeted though because they were a Democrat, she was targeted by a kook for a kook reason, so politics shouldn't even come into play here should it? to get political for a moment, this kook from what it looks like sided with the extreme left, so where's your post calling for the left to call their leaders to denounce all the political rhetoric they use?
We been askin' the DUmpMonkey that same question all day! Yet to get an answer other than, "right now they can't, cause that would be political posturin', but if the right does it and apologizes it will mean sumpin'" What, I have no idea other than defeat, but she does call the DUmp home, so go figure!
-
They've been there and done that.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2010/03/25/hoyer_decries_talk_of_reprisals_against_lawmakers/
I'm sure you have a counter link to provide the same type of condemnation from the democrats.
Any second now.....
This was a long, thoughtful response, and it appears I missed it, so I wanted to go back to it. The link you provide, above, is from March of 2010, but the message contained therein is admirable. There's no reason that politicians and pundits on the right couldn't echo those sentiments again. Perhaps some of them already have.
Hmmmmm, sounds like incitement to violence.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001362-503544.html
There seems to be a strong correlation here, Laelth. I'm sure we can count on your best efforts and strongest condemnation of these leftists who have incited violence.
Any second now.....
You provided a long and disturbing list of cases where the people on the left have used incindiary, violent rhetoric. You didn't need to prove this to me. I have written enough to know, from people who have responded to my writing, that there are plenty of people on the left who favor 2nd Amendment remedies to our political problems. I disagree with them on that strategy, and I assume many people on the right agree with me that violent rhetoric creates a climate that invites actual violence. As such, it behooves all of us to tone it down, don't you think?
-Laelth
-
The guy appears to be criminally insane, but I do believe that violent rhetoric leads nuts to act. It does not matter whether the violent rhetoric comes from the left or from the right.
-Laelth
And who's pitching a bitch because she can no longer "express herself" in her usual fashion?
One can not help criticizing the person when that person's policy is obviously conservative, obviously contrary to the interests of working people, and obviously hypocritical when contrasted with the stated platform of the Democratic Party. One's instinct is to "call out" such people.
It does not resolve the tension I have described.
For years, criticism of conservative posters, conservative policies, conservative politicians, and even conservative Democrats has been allowed if not encouraged.
Until recently, I assumed that anything that I felt needed to be said (as a liberal with a strong social conscience) would be welcomed here. I did not fear that my posts would be deleted. I did not fear that my threads would be locked. I did not fear that I would be threatened with suspension or banning.
I fear those things now, and I resent being made to feel this way. It is DU that has changed, not me.
Quote from: Robb
"Fear"? "Threatened"? "Safe"?
Remember, it's a message board. No one outside your house with an axe or anything.
Not intended to mock, but point out the language you're using may be a little more dire than called for.
Laelth-
First, let me apologize for the anger. But my knee-jerk response is also illustrative. This virtual community means something to me. When posters respond with a dismissive, "Lighten up, Francis," kind of response, I react. I react precisely because I am invested in this community. That kind of investment should not be either dismissed nor demeaned. And you did dismiss and demean my concerns.
As to my use of language, I tend to state things in their starkest, most extreme form for effect. The actual rhetorical trope is "argument ad absurdum," i.e. stretching an idea to its most extreme position to see what it would look like if applied in its most extreme form. It's a useful tool for clarity.
clarity=shit-stirring
Quote from: Bluerthanblue
with all due respect, if you tend to respond with your "starkest most extreme form for effect" then aren't you anticipating, or maybe inviting conflict? That your 'fear' might be legitimate and appropriate, because if you are walking the line of "extremes" you run the risk of overstepping the rules of civil discussion?
Laelth-
I want my readers to understand where I am coming from. We know exactly where you're coming from. I am inviting people to see the larger tension created by the new rules and the way they might get enforced. Now liberals here are under attack if they do not squelch their criticism of the Democratic Party, and that's creating some tension that is having a negative effect on the community. It's the reaction of a principled person who cares deeply about this country sharing, among friends, his or her frustration and anger.
At one time, I had a hard time on this site getting a good argument going. Now, there's virtually nothing I can say that won't get me attacked from all directions, as this thread clearly shows. That's what's known as a clue.
As I have often argued, one of the essential elements of liberal thinking is a solemn devotion to reality, i.e. a desire to see the world "as it is" and to not be blinded by ideological precepts. This, I think, is why liberals are right 95% of the time--because we can actually see what's wrong in a way that many people can not.
I think you're confusing reality with your fantasy world of "Heroes Community". Seek professional help for your anger issues. And stop diddling that Michael Jackson doll!
Consider this advice. Those who want to bash Michael Jackson should STFU. MJ is more highly regarded than Mozart. - Laelth
Quote from: Tangerine LaBamba
It's attempted censorship, and it's not aggressive - it's offensive. Not the letters themselves, but the sentiment behind it.
If you don't like what someone posts, you have options. Telling them that you think they shouldn't post anything with which you don't agree is a despotic and unconvincing stab at silencing people, and it's just not right.
There are some absolutes, and expressing opinions in a respectful and impersonal way is something that a writer of any skill should strive to do. Extolling people to keep their thoughts to themselves because they do not conform to yours is a peculiar, self-absorbed, and exclusionary attempt that, fortunately, fails.
Your anger is palpable, but you might want to examine where that anger comes from. I suspect it might not have anything to do with the passing of Michael Jackson.
In any event, this might do well on another forum, but here you do have options, and telling people to shut the **** up really isn't one of them.............................
Using language that stands for "shut the **** up" is a strange way to "advise." And why would you take it upon yourself to "advise" anyone? Exactly what wire was tripped that set you up as the arbiter of discourse here? As an "educator"?
Really? That's quite a role to take on without a contract or a general election.
Yes, your post was offensive, as far as I'm concerned, but I was not offended, so, honestly, no apology is called for. At least not to me. But it is kind of you to offer.
You might, though, want to apologize to the concepts behind democraticunderground.com, and the notion that free and respectful discourse is the hallmark of this place. You tried to punch it out with your OP, but your swing missed.
Fortunately.......................
Quote from:Laelth
I am glad you were not truly offended. Let's leave it at that, shall we?
Quote from: Tangerine LaBamba
Sure - I do hope, though, that the next time anyone tries to set themselves up as the arbiter of what should be posted, you'll be in a position to give them the benefit of your experience here.....................
http://www.oldelmtree.com/index.php?board=120.20
(http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/f/finger.gif)
-
Here we have a group that after...
40 plus years of the war on poverty still believes taking money from people that earn it and handing it to those who won`t will end poverty
30 plus years of openly declared jihad against the USA and free world there is no terrorist threat
80 plus years of failed socialist governments that end in squalor and tyranny that is still the economic system we should have
...can say with a straight face "As I have often argued, one of the essential elements of liberal thinking is a solemn devotion to reality, i.e. a desire to see the world "as it is" and to not be blinded by ideological precepts. This, I think, is why liberals are right 95% of the time--because we can actually see what's wrong in a way that many people can not."as posted above by AM (H5 for finding it).
It fits right in with the infantile nonsense Laelth is trying to assert (with no ability to defend) though.
They have declared themselves the enlightened,the entitled to rule so only they are the final arbiters of proper thought.
A perfect Utopia of control...I can say what I want and because I am always right it is okay but you say the same against me it is evil and hateful,how DARE you!
It is the typical workings of a childish maturity that can rationalize everything they want no matter how ludicrous,deny with a passion that they didn`t do something caught red handed at and never thinks any farther past getting their way.
You have done a great job Laelth illustrating how intellectually vacant liberalism is.
-
Goodness,one can find all kinds of interesting little tidbits reading Laelths screeds.
Laelth
Mod
Sneetch
Posts: 1185
Re: Bush MUST be impeached! (11-09-06)
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2010, 12:53:20 PM »
Quote from: SoFlaDem
all the good we can do will be obscured by impeachment-we'll be making the same mistake the republicans did-what's that saying?Those who forget the lessons of history being doomed DOOMED to repeat them...I'd much rather hear on the news about the progress the dems are making instead of whats' being done in impeachment hearings-look ahead not back dems
Consider also that ... we may want all the good things we are doing to be obscured. Clinton's attempt at national health insurance in 1993 and 1994 was torpedoed because it was out in the open. The Repukes could focus on it. The media focused on it too, and nothing got done. Personally, I'd like a big, national distraction this time to keep the opposition busy while we, behind the scenes, enact some legislation for the good of the American people. Universal health care is on my list, and I don't want to see it torpedoed again.
A big distraction could prove useful to us.
-Laelth
http://www.oldelmtree.com/index.php?topic=12817.msg139667#msg139667
Quite an advocate for tyranny aren`t you sweetie?
-
"tone down rhetoric" is lib-speak for "we want to veto any statement we don't agree with"
Liberals have demonstrated repeatedly they abuse every ounce of power that falls into their hands to silence and marginalize those who honestly oppose their nuttiness. From Pelosi changing the rules of the HoR to cut the GOP out of the process to the shameful (shameless) slur implying Limbaugh was speaking against all military veterans rather than the liberal icons who proved to be frauds* liberals are lying, cheating manipulators who are incapable of arguing the virtue of their positions so they must rely on bullying to seize power.
* - why do liberals take people like Jimmy Massey and Jesse Macbeth who (falsely) claim to be psychotic mass murderers who disobey military law...and then elevate them to folk hero status? And yet this thread is about which supposedly worships violence and the killing of innocents to achieve political gains.
-
The person targeted wasn't targeted though because they were a Democrat, she was targeted by a kook for a kook reason, so politics shouldn't even come into play here should it? to get political for a moment, this kook from what it looks like sided with the extreme left, so where's your post calling for the left to call their leaders to denounce all the political rhetoric they use?
We don't know this particular killer's motivations yet. The event still provides an opportuniy to make the nation better and safer.
And, while I have said I don't tink it's wise for politicians and pundits on the left to lead this fight at this time, many of them are trying to do so.
Politico had a good survey article on the prominent people who have made statements since the tragedy condemning violent, hateful rhetoric:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294.html
Among those on the supposed "left" who have condemned the dangerous rhetoric are:
Gary Hart (did not point fingers)
Keith Olberman (did point fingers, but admitted that he was guilty too)
Carolyn McCarthy (did not point fingers)
Gerald Connolly (did not point fingers)
Markos Moulitsas (definitely did point fingers)
Sheriff Joe Dupnik (initially did not point fingers, but has since named Rush Limaugh)
Bill Clinton (did not point fingers) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12164122
And here are the prominent people on the right who have condemned violent rhetoric in the wake of the tragedy:
Jim Kolbe (did not point fingers)
Anonymous Republican Senator (said the right needs to do some soul searching)
So, I ask, in the context of this tragedy, what good does it do to have those people on the alleged "left" speaking out against violent rhetoric? Are you good people buying that? Or do you see it all as political posturing, or, as Sharon Angle said, "politicizing a tragedy," even when most of those people did not point fingers? Or is it, as Sarah Palin has said, "blood libel"?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47475.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47477.html
The more prominent people on the right cry foul, the more it appears that they believe they're gulty as sin, regardless of whether they're actually complicit. Wouldn't it be wiser to condemn violent rhetoric? Why is it that the quoted Republican Senator wanted to remain anonymous? Of what is that person afraid, exactly? Why is this golden opportunity being squandered by the right?
-Laelth
-
More double speak.
You start by saying, "We don't know this particular killer's motivations yet." (as if the truly insane are capable of motivations in their truest sense) and then launch into a worthless soliloquy about violent rhetoric being the motivator.
How can you claim it was violent rhetoric but you don't know why he did it?
BTW - you're a worthless puddle of ass leakage if you suggest for a moment that Keith "OMG Bush is gonna lock us all up in Gitmo!" Olberman is somehow above the incitement indictment.
-
I don't need anyone to tell me violent rhetoric is bad. No kidding. What I need you to do is tell me where exactly is this overwhelming volume of violent rhetoric is. If Rush Limbaugh spent 45 minutes of every broadcast over the past 10 years going over who he thinks should meet with untimely demises, then yeah. I'd say Rush was creating this "toxic atmosphere" I keep hearing about. But that's not the situation. The situation is handfuls of jokes and comments are being cherrypicked and overblown in order to paint a picture which differs from reality. Free discourse will always lead to dissent, and dissent will always spark passion. It has always been this way in human society. 18th century political cartoons in America were no different from today. So-and-so is a tyrant. So-and-so is a traitor. So-and-so is a thief. How did we ever make it all these years with such rhetoric! Do you think you can cry "hate speech" and get people to put down their pens, unplug their microphones, and disband their parties? Fat chance. You're not talking to children. We know the difference between passionate dissent and true violent rhetoric. We're quite lucky to live in a country where the former is the norm and the latter is the exception.
-
And who's pitching a bitch because she can no longer "express herself" in her usual fashion?
That would be Sarah Palin: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47477.html
Amazing, isn't it? Six dead and thirteen wounded, and somehow Palin sees herself as the victim.
-Laelth
-
That would be Sarah Palin: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47477.html
Amazing, isn't it? Six dead and thirteen wounded, and somehow Palin sees herself as the victim.
-Laelth
That isn't what she said at all.
-
Here's something amazing: a single shooter, a communist manifesto, a 3 year old personal obsession... and somehow you see the Tea Party at work.
-
The more prominent people on the right cry foul, the more it appears that they believe they're gulty as sin, regardless of whether they're actually complicit. Wouldn't it be wiser to condemn violent rhetoric? Why is it that the quoted Republican Senator wanted to remain anonymous? Of what is that person afraid, exactly? Why is this golden opportunity being squandered by the right?
-Laelth
Did you huff too much gas as a kid? The more and more someone cries foul, the more and more he/she looks guilty? What kind of stupidass logic is that? YOU idiots caused this climate by coming right of the gate blaming the right and when you jackasses are proven wrong, YOU CONTINUE THE RHETORIC! Damn you are some of the dumbest mf'ers ever to inhabit the planet.
-
That would be Sarah Palin: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47477.html
Amazing, isn't it? Six dead and thirteen wounded, and somehow Palin sees herself as the victim.
-Laelth
Are you REALLY that obtuse? have you NOT been watching television since Saturday?
Practically the entire chattering class on the left and the Hollywood intellegencia ARE BLAMING SARAH PALIN!
You're lying through your teeth counselor if you try to convince us that you honestly don't comprehend WHY she'd claim shes a victim in this.
Chris Matthews' Violent Imagery: 'Sarah Palin is Going to be Erased as a Potential Candidate'
NBC's Andrea Mitchell just can't let go of the media spin that political rhetoric, specially from conservatives like Sarah Palin, is somehow partly to blame for the shooting of Gabrielle Giffords as on Tuesday's Today show, she questioned if Palin's use of crosshairs on her Web site to target Democratic districts was "inflammatory?" Mitchell couldn't even report that "There is no direct link" from Palin to the shooting suspect Jared Loughner without adding, "as far as investigators know."
http://newsbusters.org/category/people/gabrielle-giffords?page=2#ixzz1ApQXefsq
Never mind the fact that Kos used it first.
There is a great deal of hate in my heart today. . . . The hate is a free-flowing thing, expanding in all directions. . . . Sarah Palin. . . . George H. W. Bush. . . . makes me want to give up on this tepid reporting job and take up firebombing. . . . Yes, I hate, with depth and passion, and have much cause to do so.
http://newsbusters.org/category/people/gabrielle-giffords?page=2#ixzz1ApQkpBbu
That's from your intellectual equal at the DUmp Will Pitt.
NBC's Lee Cowan Highlights Palin Map As Possible Rationale for Attack on Gabrielle Giffords
Today Show Links Sarah Palin to Giffords Shooting
http://newsbusters.org/category/people/gabrielle-giffords?page=4#ixzz1ApRdjNk8
Would you like me to continue?
-
What about your little statement about wanting distractions Laelth,seems like that is what you are trying to gain from this.
-
If I publicly blamed Bill Clinton for 9/11 ("I" being a large slew of media, pundits, and rehabbing celebrities) and Bill Clinton objected, would it then be fair to huff and say "OH! 3,000 dead and he sees HIMSELF as a victim!" I think you would say that's quite unfair.
-
Laelth (1000+ posts) Tue Jan-11-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You're right. Many of them are being defensive ... a tacit admission of complicity.
But I want to offer them another alternative--one that will do the nation some good.
-Laelth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x172044
Isn`t it beautiful...a person says apologize for something therefore accepting responsibility but defend yourself against bs accusations and it makes you complicit.
This is a person supposedly entrusted to be a representative of our judicial system too.
You are a disgrace to your claimed profession and it takes a lot to do that.
-
As I mentioned in the shoutbox yesterday, the position that denial of guilt=an admission of guilt was the "logic" of witchhunters.
-
As I mentioned in the shoutbox yesterday, the position that denial of guilt=an admission of guilt was the "logic" of witchhunters.
The left are looking to bash the Conservatves whether they apologize or not. As I pointed out to this troll int he FC last night...what the left is looking for and craving is a "gotcha" moment.
Whether they get it by making prominent Conservatives apologize so they can go "see their apology is an ADMISSION of guilt"...or by claiming that refuse to acknowledge our own hatered because we don't apologize. They are playing this game in a way that allows them to dicate the outcome in their favor regardless.
-
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h306/tnafbrat/Smileys/DramaQueen.gif)
I've heard so many versions of this " it's the right's fault that .... " garbage ... I'm so over it
-
We don't know this particular killer's motivations yet. The event still provides an opportuniy to make the nation better and safer.
If we don't know the motivations yet then where are your posts calling for your fellow regressives to tone down the rhetoric and finger pointing? We were a safer nation in the early and mid 1900's, did that ever prevent people from going insane and committing crimes?
And, while I have said I don't tink it's wise for politicians and pundits on the left to lead this fight at this time, many of them are trying to do so.
Politico had a good survey article on the prominent people who have made statements since the tragedy condemning violent, hateful rhetoric:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294.html
Among those on the supposed "left" who have condemned the dangerous rhetoric are:
Gary Hart (did not point fingers)
Keith Olberman (did point fingers, but admitted that he was guilty too)
Carolyn McCarthy (did not point fingers)
Gerald Connolly (did not point fingers)
Markos Moulitsas (definitely did point fingers)
Sheriff Joe Dupnik (initially did not point fingers, but has since named Rush Limaugh)
Bill Clinton (did not point fingers) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12164122
Excuse me? you've left Chris Matthews off that list and Paul Kanjorski amongst others who've condemned what they view as rhetoric yet didn't point the fingers at themselves.
And here are the prominent people on the right who have condemned violent rhetoric in the wake of the tragedy:
Jim Kolbe (did not point fingers)
Anonymous Republican Senator (said the right needs to do some soul searching)
So, I ask, in the context of this tragedy, what good does it do to have those people on the alleged "left" speaking out against violent rhetoric? Are you good people buying that? Or do you see it all as political posturing, or, as Sharon Angle said, "politicizing a tragedy," even when most of those people did not point fingers? Or is it, as Sarah Palin has said, "blood libel"?
Maybe because Republicans aren't using violent rhetoric and the insinuation that they are using violent rhetoric is basically projection from regressives? And what are you talking about when you say the left hasn't pointed fingers? within an hour of this tragedy State Senator Linda Lopez blamed this on the right by saying she heard the guy was an "Afghan Vet" and a "Tea Partier" and that's all it took for everyone on your side to run with it.
The more prominent people on the right cry foul, the more it appears that they believe they're gulty as sin, regardless of whether they're actually complicit. Wouldn't it be wiser to condemn violent rhetoric? Why is it that the quoted Republican Senator wanted to remain anonymous? Of what is that person afraid, exactly? Why is this golden opportunity being squandered by the right?
-Laelth
Are you serious? we have nothing to feel guilty about and your little screed won't change that, if anything your side has the problem since the majority of Americans and even Democrats by a margin of 49-42 believe that this incident wasn't politically motivated and if anything you guys only succeeded in marginalizing yourselves even more in the eyes of the American people, which is basically something that AllentownJake has been trying to get across to you guys for days now, he knows what the ramifications of insane finger pointing will do to the regressive cause, it makes you guys look absolutely insane to the average American.
-
That would be Sarah Palin: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47477.html
Amazing, isn't it? Six dead and thirteen wounded, and somehow Palin sees herself as the victim.
-Laelth
Here's Sarah's entire statement, point out to me where she portrays herself as a victim:
Like millions of Americans I learned of the tragic events in Arizona on Saturday, and my heart broke for the innocent victims. No words can fill the hole left by the death of an innocent, but we do mourn for the victims’ families as we express our sympathy.
I agree with the sentiments shared yesterday at the beautiful Catholic mass held in honor of the victims. The mass will hopefully help begin a healing process for the families touched by this tragedy and for our country.
Our exceptional nation, so vibrant with ideas and the passionate exchange and debate of ideas, is a light to the rest of the world. Congresswoman Giffords and her constituents were exercising their right to exchange ideas that day, to celebrate our Republic’s core values and peacefully assemble to petition our government. It’s inexcusable and incomprehensible why a single evil man took the lives of peaceful citizens that day.
There is a bittersweet irony that the strength of the American spirit shines brightest in times of tragedy. We saw that in Arizona. We saw the tenacity of those clinging to life, the compassion of those who kept the victims alive, and the heroism of those who overpowered a deranged gunman.
Like many, I’ve spent the past few days reflecting on what happened and praying for guidance. After this shocking tragedy, I listened at first puzzled, then with concern, and now with sadness, to the irresponsible statements from people attempting to apportion blame for this terrible event.
President Reagan said, “We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.†Acts of monstrous criminality stand on their own. They begin and end with the criminals who commit them, not collectively with all the citizens of a state, not with those who listen to talk radio, not with maps of swing districts used by both sides of the aisle, not with law-abiding citizens who respectfully exercise their First Amendment rights at campaign rallies, not with those who proudly voted in the last election.
The last election was all about taking responsibility for our country’s future. President Obama and I may not agree on everything, but I know he would join me in affirming the health of our democratic process. Two years ago his party was victorious. Last November, the other party won. In both elections the will of the American people was heard, and the peaceful transition of power proved yet again the enduring strength of our Republic.
Vigorous and spirited public debates during elections are among our most cherished traditions. And after the election, we shake hands and get back to work, and often both sides find common ground back in D.C. and elsewhere. If you don’t like a person’s vision for the country, you’re free to debate that vision. If you don’t like their ideas, you’re free to propose better ideas. But, especially within hours of a tragedy unfolding, journalists and pundits should not manufacture a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn. That is reprehensible.
There are those who claim political rhetoric is to blame for the despicable act of this deranged, apparently apolitical criminal. And they claim political debate has somehow gotten more heated just recently. But when was it less heated? Back in those “calm days†when political figures literally settled their differences with dueling pistols? In an ideal world all discourse would be civil and all disagreements cordial. But our Founding Fathers knew they weren’t designing a system for perfect men and women. If men and women were angels, there would be no need for government. Our Founders’ genius was to design a system that helped settle the inevitable conflicts caused by our imperfect passions in civil ways. So, we must condemn violence if our Republic is to endure.
As I said while campaigning for others last March in Arizona during a very heated primary race, “We know violence isn’t the answer. When we ‘take up our arms’, we’re talking about our vote.†Yes, our debates are full of passion, but we settle our political differences respectfully at the ballot box – as we did just two months ago, and as our Republic enables us to do again in the next election, and the next. That’s who we are as Americans and how we were meant to be. Public discourse and debate isn’t a sign of crisis, but of our enduring strength. It is part of why America is exceptional.
No one should be deterred from speaking up and speaking out in peaceful dissent, and we certainly must not be deterred by those who embrace evil and call it good. And we will not be stopped from celebrating the greatness of our country and our foundational freedoms by those who mock its greatness by being intolerant of differing opinion and seeking to muzzle dissent with shrill cries of imagined insults.
Just days before she was shot, Congresswoman Giffords read the First Amendment on the floor of the House. It was a beautiful moment and more than simply “symbolic,†as some claim, to have the Constitution read by our Congress. I am confident she knew that reading our sacred charter of liberty was more than just “symbolic.†But less than a week after Congresswoman Giffords reaffirmed our protected freedoms, another member of Congress announced that he would propose a law that would criminalize speech he found offensive.
It is in the hour when our values are challenged that we must remain resolved to protect those values. Recall how the events of 9-11 challenged our values and we had to fight the tendency to trade our freedoms for perceived security. And so it is today.
Let us honor those precious lives cut short in Tucson by praying for them and their families and by cherishing their memories. Let us pray for the full recovery of the wounded. And let us pray for our country. In times like this we need God’s guidance and the peace He provides. We need strength to not let the random acts of a criminal turn us against ourselves, or weaken our solid foundation, or provide a pretext to stifle debate.
America must be stronger than the evil we saw displayed last week. We are better than the mindless finger-pointing we endured in the wake of the tragedy. We will come out of this stronger and more united in our desire to peacefully engage in the great debates of our time, to respectfully embrace our differences in a positive manner, and to unite in the knowledge that, though our ideas may be different, we must all strive for a better future for our country. May God bless America.
- Sarah Palin
-
This is not a game. Real people are dead and wounded.
-Laelth
No it isn't. Real people are dead and injured. Why then do you and your ilk continue to incite hatred and point blame for political points? I see a game being played here and you're in the major league.
-
That would be Sarah Palin: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47477.html
Amazing, isn't it? Six dead and thirteen wounded, and somehow Palin sees herself as the victim.
-Laelth
So the well water goes bad and the Jews are crying they're the victim because blood libelists blamed them.
-
Here's Sarah's entire statement, point out to me where she portrays herself as a victim:
I think laelth gets his "information" on what these people are saying in Cliffs Notes form from Media Matters.
I seriously doubt he reads the actual statements.
-
I think laelth gets his "information" on what these people are saying in Cliffs Notes form from Media Matters.
I seriously doubt he reads the actual statements.
Shitty lawyer.
-
Shitty lawyer.
Can you say contempt?
Bet a judge could.
-
Can you say contempt?
Bet a judge could.
I think he fits into the same category as Sheriff D.U.pnik; i.e. in the course of discharging his professional duties and obligations he will allow ideology override policies and practices established to prevent exercises of such malpractice. IOW: "don't confuse me with the facts and don't bother me with procedures, my mind is already made up."
Methinks as the onion is peeled D.U.pnik may well be found to have exercised favors for a fellow county worker (mother Loughner) and his ideas of how to deal with the mentally unstable will be akin to his ideas of how to handle illegal immigration: the laws are unfair so I won't enforce them. This is no difference from the despot who claims the law is insufficient and therefore arrests, convicts and punishes according to personal whim.
-
"Just in the past two and a half years, here's the record of "isolated incidents" amassed so far:
-- July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how "liberals" are "destroying America," walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.
-- October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.
-- December 2008: A pair of "Patriot" movement radicals -- the father-son team of Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted "to attack the political infrastructure" -- threaten a bank in Woodburn, Oregon, with a bomb in the hopes of extorting money that would end their financial difficulties, for which they blamed the government. Instead, the bomb goes off and kills two police officers. The men eventually are convicted and sentenced to death for the crime."
Ummm...bertman...what if any links are there with any of these individuals with the Conservative movement, Republicans or the TEA Party?
And as a basic grade school history reminder...NAZI is the National SOCIALIST Party.
As much as you spin and deny...the NAZI's are leftists all the way.
You post 4 isolated incidents that are in no way linked in credible fashion to Conservatives...and call that proof?
We have linked to widespread incidents going back a decade and can go back farther if you would like...not that it would do any real good other than to show people what an obtuse jackass you truly are.
These incidents are downplayed by the right-wing media and swept under the rug.
Proof?
Question: If someone assassinated Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, or Sharron Angle would the right-wing media blame it on mental illness?
If the person was as unstable as any of the other morons as of late the answer is yes.
The BIGGER question is would the left accept culpability for years upon years of calling for and gleefully WISHING for the death of the above named Conservatives?
-
A friendly suggestion: Clone DU
And Laelth wonders why we mock him?
-
Ironically it IS indeed a golden opportunity for the right -- a chance to out the self-serving blame game of misdirection Sheriff Dumprik is playing, and thus to highlight the manipulative, opportunistic lies and hypocrisy of the Left who want to shame all dissent into silence by frickin' LYING about it.
-
What happens when a Lib puts too much spin into it's circular logic?
It ends up doing exactly what it's accuses others of.
Witness our Legal Eagle's last post in the FC...where it refers to those that say "you apologize first" as embarrassing and childish.
Remind me again what the premise of this nitwits "proposal" was?
-
What happens when a Lib puts too much spin into it's circular logic?
It ends up doing exactly what it's accuses others of.
Witness our Legal Eagle's last post in the FC...where it refers to those that say "you apologize first" as embarrassing and childish.
Remind me again what the premise of this nitwits "proposal" was?
Seems to fall into #8 and #13 of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals:
8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
It also fits in with Alinsky's Rules for the Ethics of Power Tactics, in particular:
10. You do what you can with what you have and clothe it in moral garments.
-
Seems to fall into #8 and #13 of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals:
8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
It also fits in with Alinsky's Rules for the Ethics of Power Tactics, in particular:
10. You do what you can with what you have and clothe it in moral garments.
Nailed it, Bally. :cheersmate:
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
-Attack the shit out of Palin and the Right.
8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.
- ABC News accuses of Palin of "making herself a part of the story" when she decides to respond to the attacks.
These ****ing people have become absolutely predictable, and therefore, are as close to complete obsolescense as they've ever been in American history.
-
It's still at it in Fight Club, you know, Tx. So now when you point out that "Kos used it first," that's a "weak argument." Ok, how much weaker then is it to refer to Sarah Palin's LATER use? How ridiculous is it, anyway, to suggest that we ban all metaphorical speech and imagery from political discourse, because some people MIGHT be incapable of understanding what a metaphor is?
And he objects to "Blood Libel" because Sarah Palin is, by its use, saying that she's being victimized. Well, being falsely accused in an all-out, fresh character asssassination effort by the national media DOES make her a vicitm--of character assassination and false accusation of being an accessory to murder.
HAD to get that out.
This person is as flat-out revolting as any propagandist of the lying leftist propaganda media.
-
Seems to fall into #8 and #13 of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals:
8. Keep the pressure on with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose.
13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.
It also fits in with Alinsky's Rules for the Ethics of Power Tactics, in particular:
10. You do what you can with what you have and clothe it in moral garments.
he's not doing very well at putting them into practice then.
He reading comprehension when it comes to Alinsky seems to be as bad as when it comes to reading statements by Gov. Palin and Chris Matthews
-
It's still at it in Fight Club, you know, Tx. So now when you point out that "Kos used it first," that's a "weak argument." Ok, how much weaker then is it to refer to Sarah Palin's LATER use? How ridiculous is it, anyway, to suggest that we ban all metaphorical speech and imagery from political discourse, because some people MIGHT be incapable of understanding what a metaphor is?
And he objects to "Blood Libel" because Sarah Palin is, by its use, saying that she's being victimized. Well, being falsely accused in an all-out, fresh character asssassination effort by the national media DOES make her a vicitm--of character assassination and false accusation of being an accessory to murder.
HAD to get that out.
This person is as flat-out revolting as any propagandist of the lying leftist propaganda media.
This troll has been reduced to mocking the premise for it's own OP over at OET.
That being he...in this case the right...should apologize first!
That is the cornerstone of the OP that Laelth posted at OET and the DUmp.
Something that Laelth now refers to as a childish and embarrassing tactic.
:whatever:
-
Note for the lurking DUmmies and OET Libtards...what I'm about to show you is NOT a successful way to win a debate or convince people to see things your way.
No. Right now, in this environment, only Republicans and right-leaning political commentators have the opportunity to do the right thing—and that would be to make every effort to reign in the rhetoric that leads nuts like Loughner to exercise their 2nd Amendment remedies. Seriously, how hard would it be for conservative politicians and pundits to admit that violent, hateful rhetoric creates a climate that invites tragedy?
Ummm...yeah
Look, when one of my children says, "Make him apologize first," I know that the one making that demand is guilty as sin. That's not a winning argument, and coming from the "adults" in this nation, it's downright embarrasing.
-Laelth
You were saying?
-
Maybe because Republicans aren't using violent rhetoric.
Do you honestly believe that? You know what your conservative friends say. I certainly know what my conservative friends say. "Second Amendment remedies" are definitely on the table among my right wing friends.
I have not denied that the left is complicit in this charged political environment. Lots of people are complicit. You can't sell me, or the American people, on the notion that the right is as pure as the driven snow. I know that's not the case.
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
-
Do you honestly believe that? You know what your conservative friends say. I certainly know what my conservative friends say. "Second Amendment remedies" are definitely on the table among my right wing friends.
I have not denied that the left is complicit in this charged political environment. Lots of people are complicit. You can't sell me, or the American people, on the notion that the right is as pure as the driven snow. I know that's not the case.
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
You do realize that this country is a country and not still singing "God Save The Queen" because of "Second Amendment Remedies" don't you?
That Constitution you so proudly claim to defend...but don't really seem to understand...is the result of "Second Amendment Remedies".
So...wanna talk about what your left wing friends are saying? Or do you still want to pretend they are without blame or responsibility and just dump it on the right and your imaginary straw men from the right?
-
More double speak.
You start by saying, "We don't know this particular killer's motivations yet." (as if the truly insane are capable of motivations in their truest sense) and then launch into a worthless soliloquy about violent rhetoric being the motivator.
How can you claim it was violent rhetoric but you don't know why he did it?
BTW - you're a worthless puddle of ass leakage if you suggest for a moment that Keith "OMG Bush is gonna lock us all up in Gitmo!" Olberman is somehow above the incitement indictment.
Didn't ya read up thread where the mostest smartest person on this board said his motives weren't relevant to her "essay"? snicker!
-
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
We told you your president began his political career in the classrooms of avowed communists, had his debutante coming-out in Bill Ayer's and Bernadine Dorhn's living room and he spent decades and tens of thousands of dollars per year supporting Jeremiah Wright's church.
We told you this before the election.
You DELIBERATELY chose to ignore it.
Go **** yourself with a chainsaw.
-
http://www.targetofopportunity.com/protesters.htm
Yeah, all this "rhetoric" just started on 20January2009. ::)
-
Do you honestly believe that? You know what your conservative friends say. I certainly know what my conservative friends say. "Second Amendment remedies" are definitely on the table among my right wing friends.
I have not denied that the left is complicit in this charged political environment. Lots of people are complicit. You can't sell me, or the American people, on the notion that the right is as pure as the driven snow. I know that's not the case.
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
What do you consider violent rhetoric? speech you don't agree with? Physician heal thyself or in this case Lawyer look at the facts in a non-partisan way.
Seriously, are you so ideologically out there that you actually think the Daily Kos putting up an ad with a bullseye on it would drive a sane person to commit that act? do you really think Chris Matthews wishing death upon Rush Limbaugh would drive a sane person to try to harm Rush? do you really think Paul Kanjorski's comment about shooting someone running for Governor would drive a sane person to commit such a heinous act? You don't seem to get that people are called insane for a reason, they're just insane, and they don't need someone yelling in the background to drive them over the edge, they've been hanging on that edge for years already.
You know what you're doing Laelth? you're doing what regressives of your ilk do, you project, you know in the eyes of the American people that your ideology will never be accepted, so in your own little fantasy world you think by making statements like you've done through this whole thread that somehow you can persuade them to come around to your way of thinking, you have contempt for those you espouse to care about, you think those that don't think like you are mindless numskulls. Your argument doesn't fly with me, I don't get persuaded, and you despise the fact that there are a lot more people like me out there then there are of you. You want to talk about apologies? or toning down the rehetoric? do it with your own party because as we can see with events over the past 2 years it's regressives that are the ones who are unhinged, they're the ones who fly planes into IRS buildings.
-
Seriously, are you so ideologically out there that you actually think the Daily Kos putting up an ad with a bullseye on it would drive a sane person to commit that act? ...
Since Loughner was motivated by a belief that the government was using the rules of grammar to control our minds then perhaps the DKos style of prose is responsible.
-
Since Loughner was motivated by a belief that the government was using the rules of grammar to control our minds then perhaps the DKos style of prose is responsible.
The DUmmies have also used similar terms when talking about conservatives and DINOS.
-
...And, of course, the boxing glove and GWB's face on $kammer's periodic
vacation fund drives.
-
No. I can not say the same for DU, and I will not defend DU.
Yet you would have them stay silent instead of cleaning up their own hate and bile.
Interesting....
And I think you (and others) are showing a lot of fear regarding what I have to say, but that's just my interpretation.
:lmao:
Fear? Sweetheart, you are among many people who have been subjected to incoming ordinance. Incoming ordinance, I would remind you, that was launched at them while they stood the line in your place while defending the Constitution with their lives. Fear of what a liberal has to say, by comparison, is not an issue.
Do not make the mistake of attributing to fear what is more correctly defined as contempt at having our intelligence insulted.
I would not have posted here today had not my essay been posted in this thread. That's what I meant by "I came here today," and I suspect you know that and are not engaging me in good faith.
So sayeth the liberal encouraging a group to make statements for something in which they bear no guilt...
"Full of shit" is in the eye of the beholder.
No, "full of shit" is being presented mountains of actual evidence and not being intellectually honest enough to admit that you may be wrong.
I've been treated to a lot of it today. :)
Likewise...
-
This was a long, thoughtful response, and it appears I missed it, so I wanted to go back to it. The link you provide, above, is from March of 2010, but the message contained therein is admirable. There's no reason that politicians and pundits on the right couldn't echo those sentiments again.
Maybe because they have no guilt in this?
Maybe the democrats and leftists could stop spreading hate and condemn violence from both sides?
I don't see a link from you where they have, though. Odd....
You provided a long and disturbing list of cases where the people on the left have used incindiary, violent rhetoric. You didn't need to prove this to me. I have written enough to know, from people who have responded to my writing, that there are plenty of people on the left who favor 2nd Amendment remedies to our political problems. I disagree with them on that strategy, and I assume many people on the right agree with me that violent rhetoric creates a climate that invites actual violence. As such, it behooves all of us to tone it down, don't you think?
No, what I think is that the lunatic left (ie your "readers") needs to cool it and quick before they move one of their kind to do this type of garbage again. Nobody from the right is making the same kind of whackaloon statements that your side are making.
Again, I shall repeat: Clean your own house before you tell me mine is dirty.
-
Do you honestly believe that? You know what your conservative friends say. I certainly know what my conservative friends say. "Second Amendment remedies" are definitely on the table among my right wing friends.
I have not denied that the left is complicit in this charged political environment. Lots of people are complicit. You can't sell me, or the American people, on the notion that the right is as pure as the driven snow. I know that's not the case.
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
Look, Laelth, get this through your skull: there is NO connection between angry opposition to the leftist agenda and Loughner's actions. It's much, much more likely that he ws inspired by the demagogues of the left--elected, appointed, and in the media (and on the Internet--hint hint). But I wouldn't even hold them responsible for the actions of a madman.
Thus your call to DO something is just a call to do something, anything, no matter how meaningless and pointless, and obvious to us as a ridiculous placing of a false onus on the political right. And by the way, yes, Sarah Palin IS a victim here: she has been repeatedly defamed and character assassinated in the mainstream, leftist-controlled media as an accomplice to murder! ANYONE would be angry about that, and would justifiably respond.
I'd say this poor, deceased horse has been beaten plenty--or is that metaphor just too violent? :whatever:
-
Laelth (1000+ posts) Tue Jan-11-11 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. You're right. Many of them are being defensive ... a tacit admission of complicity.
But I want to offer them another alternative--one that will do the nation some good.
-Laelth
Isn`t it beautiful...a person says apologize for something therefore accepting responsibility but defend yourself against bs accusations and it makes you complicit.
This is a person supposedly entrusted to be a representative of our judicial system too.
You are a disgrace to your claimed profession and it takes a lot to do that.
Scratch a leftist, find a fascist.
BTW, isn't it all cute that the DUmmies and Elmers love to come over here and present themselves as "reasonable" and "moderate", but as soon as they think they're out of sight they revert back to their sorry, liberal selves?
Such duplicitousness is a prime example of why they should never be allowed near any type of leadership of anything nor do they have any credibility.
-
And I think you (and others) are showing a lot of fear regarding what I have to say, but that's just my interpretation.
If you can't distinguish between fear on one hand, and mockery, distaste, bemusement, and scorn on the other, I hope for the sake of your family you don't make your living by negotiation.
-
I think he fits into the same category as Sheriff D.U.pnik; i.e. in the course of discharging his professional duties and obligations he will allow ideology override policies and practices established to prevent exercises of such malpractice. IOW: "don't confuse me with the facts and don't bother me with procedures, my mind is already made up."
Methinks as the onion is peeled D.U.pnik may well be found to have exercised favors for a fellow county worker (mother Loughner) and his ideas of how to deal with the mentally unstable will be akin to his ideas of how to handle illegal immigration: the laws are unfair so I won't enforce them. This is no difference from the despot who claims the law is insufficient and therefore arrests, convicts and punishes according to personal whim.
Liberals are liberals first, above all else.
-
If you can't distinguish between fear on one hand, and mockery, distaste, bemusement, and scorn on the other, I hope for the sake of your family you don't make your living by negotiation.
Tank, this person is a delusional attention-whore.
-
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
Wow, the irony in that statement alone is enough to build a fleet of battleships.
It's interesting, though, that the true hate mongers in this country (the left) are not held to the same standard. Now, why is that? Why would you demand a higher standard for a group that you are in opposition to but not the one to which you belong?
I personally believe that democrats and leftists need their professed devotion to this representative republic questioned on a daily basis and I also believe that they have been fomenting domestic terrorism for many, many years.
I formed this observation from actually reading their words, not from some ideological whim. You, on the other hand, well......
-
Do you honestly believe that? You know what your conservative friends say. I certainly know what my conservative friends say. "Second Amendment remedies" are definitely on the table among my right wing friends.
I have not denied that the left is complicit in this charged political environment. Lots of people are complicit. You can't sell me, or the American people, on the notion that the right is as pure as the driven snow. I know that's not the case.
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
Remember these?
In all fairness, though, to the extent I am "pointing fingers" in the essay above, I am not pointing exclusively at the right. I freely admit that lots of people are complicit here, and I am inviting the right to condemn violent rhetoric from any source--right or left or middle. The source does not matter to me.
-Laelth
I have never said this problem was confined to the right. Try all you want, you won't find that argument from me.
-Laelth
Looks like that position is out the window. You tore off your own mask a while ago. We didn't have to "try" at all.
-
Tank, this person is a delusional attention-whore.
OK, I've been reading this thread for awhile. Guys and gals, I finally have to ask you, why bother to continue to debate someone who won't acknowledge the truth as it stares him in the face? He KNOWS damn well his lefty buds were wrong to jump to conclusions and still persists in sophistry? My vote is for him to pack his bags and go back to his echo chambers at DU and OET.
If beating your head against a brick wall would help win an argument, I'd be all for full speed ahead. But this guy will never be convinced he's not right and the rest of us are morally bankrupt morons who don't appreciate his "appeal to our higher sensibilities" where we on the right, having been categorized as hatemongers, roll over and present our bellies to the munificent "progressives" and beg their forgiveness for having an opinion contrary to what they feel is correct and furthermore having the sheer audacity to express it over the airwaves. Nevermind that this murderer was described by his friends (but what the hell do THEY know, right, Laelth?) as apolitical.
And yeah, your usual disclaimer that you never SAID that is noted. :whatever:
-
Well, dear lady, I enjoy mocking his silliness, not for the sake of enlightening him (A lost cause if ever there was one), but for the exercise of deconstructing his writing to elaborate its flaws for our own stalwarts to see and possibly use if anyone pulls the same shit on them if trapped into a discussion with a moonbat co-worker or relative.
But that's just me. Still, I don't think anyone else is really expecting to change his alleged mind, either.
-
OK, I've been reading this thread for awhile. Guys and gals, I finally have to ask you, why bother to continue to debate someone who won't acknowledge the truth as it stares him in the face?
For the same reason you shave one eyebrow off the first guy to pass out at the party.
;)
-
Well, dear lady, I enjoy mocking his silliness, not for the sake of enlightening him (A lost cause if ever there was one), but for the exercise of deconstructing his writing to elaborate its flaws for our own stalwarts to see and possibly use if anyone pulls the same shit on them if trapped into a discussion with a moonbat co-worker or relative.
But that's just me. Still, I don't think anyone else is really expecting to change his alleged mind, either.
Oh, gotcha :wink:you are using him for amusement the same way we, in the broader sense (can I say broader without incuring the enmity of the feministas :mental:)use the DUmp denizens.
-
For the same reason you shave one eyebrow off the first guy to pass out at the party.
;)
But YOU wouldn't know anything about shaving, wouldja? :lmao:
Modified to specify shaving EYEBROWS.
Make of all this what you will. Although, that's more of a leftwingerdummalinger trait.
-
But YOU wouldn't know anything about shaving, wouldja? :lmao:
Me? No, I wouldn't. There is a damn good reason I call myself a "Hillbilly Yeti".
:-)
-
Do you honestly believe that? You know what your conservative friends say. I certainly know what my conservative friends say. "Second Amendment remedies" are definitely on the table among my right wing friends.
I have not denied that the left is complicit in this charged political environment. Lots of people are complicit. You can't sell me, or the American people, on the notion that the right is as pure as the driven snow. I know that's not the case.
What I am suggesting in this essay is that leaders on the right have an opportunity to do something about this problem. If they refuse to do so, they call into question their professed devotion to this democratic republic, and they open themselves up to charges of fomenting domestic terrorism.
-Laelth
Just because you and your ilk want it to be true doesn't mean that it is true. That's a tactic amongst the DUmp denziens.
-
Oh dear - I'm quite late to the conversation, although I have been reading this thread diligently. I've spent more than enough time at Pitcairn Island the last few days to realize that the inhabitants there make many at DU look somewhat reasonable. How is that even possible? The liberal mantra of do as I say and not as I do has been vomited across the elms like that of the proverbial teenager the morning after an all night kegger. The cognitive dissonance should be deafening, but alas, it is not. I've read so many threads on the AZ incident, and like Ballygrl, I must give credit to ATJ for trying to be the voice of reason. He, Political Heretic, and a couple of others have at least tried to point out that what the left is doing now is seriously jeopardizing credibility with people who don't have an axe to grind, and who can intelligently separate the actions of a mad man from political discourse. Interestingly enough, I've only seen Laelth in a couple of conversations, mainly with Ecarina/crazy Depakid of DU notoriety, extolling the virtues of his benevolence in coming here to educate us on how to make peace.
In real life, nobody ever accuses me of being at a loss for words, but seriously, I've been dumbfounded over the argument Laelth is trying to present here. It's been discussed already in many excellent points in this thread alone, so I won't rehash the argument. I'm just honestly trying to get my brain around how all the toning down of rhetoric is reserved for the right, and how the left can throw any crap at the wall, see if it sticks, and call it a logical argument. For the last few months, all we've heard from the left is how evil the blue dog dems are and how they need to be taken out. Should we just believe that to be figurative speech, or should we start a campaign of justice against progressives for how they talk about their representatives? Is that a different argument because it's made by the left? Now suddenly, since it fits the agenda, the left has forgotten all about their vicious slams of the moderate dems in favor of castigating the right. It seems to be a game, and its one adults should not be playing. While you should be having a heart to heart talk with yourself about integrity, instead you personify the child in your example of pointing and saying, "Make him apologize first." Shame on you if that's what you are modeling in your home, and shame on you for modeling it with your cohorts.
As for Sarah Palin, she's a grown lady and knew the political climate was heated when she arrived on the national scene. Still, the audacity one must have to say that she's playing the victim card here is simply unbelievable. Have we not seen two plus years of her, her family, and many of her associates being constantly mocked for not toeing some imaginary line in the sand? With as much respect as I can possibly muster, I ask you and all the other political do-gooders, who seek to politicize this tragedy, to go pound sand.
-
"In all fairness to people on all sides of this issue, let me remark that it is entirely reasonable to assume a political motivation when a politician is killed. It is also entirely reasonable to assume that the killer comes from the opposite end of the political spectrum. Those are natural assumptions.
It is equally fair to say that we know nothing about the killer(s) motivations in this case, and well, we all know what usually happens when people assume things."
As I said above, Loughner's "true motivations" are not relevant for the purpose of this essay. As a result of this tragedy, politicians and pundits on the right do have an opportunity to reign in violent rhetoric in this country, and I am inviting them to take it.
-Laelth
Why is it the right has to "do the right thing" if it is the left, and the left ONLY, that is politicizing this affair, and it is the left, and the left ONLY,who is calling for the literal death of conservatives?
When you can answer that question without the usual circular argument,, get back to us...
-
Why is it the right has to "do the right thing" if it is the left, and the left ONLY, that is politicizing this affair, and it is the left, and the left ONLY,who is calling for the literal death of conservatives?
When you can answer that question without the usual circular argument,, get back to us...
Not expecting a straight answer from a Liberal lawyer are you? :tongue:
This was Laelth's clever attempt at blaming the right....just like the rest of the slobbering Libtards have done...without appearing to say the shooting was our fault.
-
Not expecting a straight answer from a Liberal lawyer are you? :tongue:
Maybe one or the other but not both at the same time.
-
Not expecting a straight answer from a Liberal lawyer are you? :tongue:
This was Laelth's clever attempt at blaming the right....just like the rest of the slobbering Libtards have done...without appearing to say the shooting was our fault.
Maybe one or the other but not both at the same time.
A guy's gotta try, even if it seems fruitless...
-
Why is it the right has to "do the right thing" if it is the left, and the left ONLY, that is politicizing this affair, and it is the left, and the left ONLY,who is calling for the literal death of conservatives?
When you can answer that question without the usual circular argument,, get back to us...
They want the right to apologize, even if we have no reason to, because they want to say "see, they must feel guilt if they apologized", that's all. They know they made fools of themselves in front of the American people, so this is their way to try and save face.
-
They want the right to apologize, even if we have no reason to, because they want to say "see, they must feel guilt if they apologized", that's all. They know they made fools of themselves in front of the American people, so this is their way to try and save face.
That and they want to completely establish that the left is automatically on the correct side of everything.
They wish to be the ones to define right and wrong as it fits into a socialist agenda.
It really isn`t difficult to see how Marxism migrates to Socialism and has to end as Communisim.
-
Have you seen a single MSM show that points out the hatred of the lefts comments? A single one? Of course you haven't, and Lilith ****in' knows it!
When she points that out in one of those "essays", snicker, essays, then perhaps she'd have an opinion worth readin'!
Until then, she's just another MoonBat, worthy of our scorn!
-
Until then, she's just another MoonBat, worthy of our scorn!
H5 for that one!! :lol:
-
.....worthy of our scorn!
By the way, speaking of, by chance, if anyone happens to know, how's our former friend, the unexceptional Short Al, doing over there?
<<keeping promise to leave Pitcairn Island alone, concentrating instead on Skins's island.
-
As I said:
So where's the Laelth's calls for liberals to "Take the High Road and Condemn Violent Rhetoric?" Silence from him on any of these events, until now.
and...
If he truly believes as he claims, then the responsible thing for him to have done would have been to call upon his lib opinion commentators to not say anything that might even have remotely caused someone to act out what they believed the commentator was asking. But did he? No.
This Monday morning quarterback appeal falls falt. To have been taken seriously, you should have written this months and, more accurately, years ago about your own side and the many things they've said and done in the past that could be refered to, by some, as "violent rhetoric." Instead, you wait until now and then demand the other side step up and do the right thing as you see it.
Not interested. You fail.
.
-
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,54160.0.html