U.S. veterans health probe confirms cover-up of care delays

[Chris_]

Calls for U.S. Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki to resign grew louder on Wednesday as the agency's inspector general confirmed "systemic" and widespread VA scheduling abuses to cover up long wait times for veterans' healthcare.

The report confirmed allegations that staff at VA medical facilities in Phoenix significantly understated months-long wait times for healthcare appointments for veterans. It linked these actions to performance appraisals, bonus awards and salary increases for VA executives. The findings prompted some Republicans and Democrats who had withheld judgment on Shinseki to call for his immediate resignation.

The inspector general said a sample of 226 veterans waited on average 115 days for their first primary care appointment at Phoenix-area clinics, far longer than the 26-day average reported by the Phoenix VA and the department's 14-day goal.

Reuters


The veterans' deaths are merely workplace incidents according to this administration.

[docstew]

Shinseki spent close to 40 years in a culture that has institutional values of loyalty, duty, selfless service, and integrity. He learned nothing from those years apparently.

[Gina]

I have a question.  Everyone is screaming for Shinseki to resign. If he does is that it? problem fixed, Obama off the hook?

Is Shinseki the real problem or the scapegoat?

[thundley4]

I have a question.  Everyone is screaming for Shinseki to resign. If he does is that it? problem fixed, Obama off the hook?

Is Shinseki the real problem or the scapegoat?

I want him to stay right there until the problem is fixed.  He has been there from day one with Obama, and Obama knew about these problems from the start.

Someone coming in as a replacement can not be held accountable, nor could they be expected to be up to speed on any problems and would hinder any investigations.

Look at Benghazi and the hearings scheduled on that. Who are they planning on having testify? John Effin' Kerry, not Hillary, not the one in charge at the time four Americans were killed.

[Gina]

I want him to stay right there until the problem is fixed.  He has been there from day one with Obama, and Obama knew about these problems from the start.

Someone coming in as a replacement can not be held accountable, nor could they be expected to be up to speed on any problems and would hinder any investigations.

Look at Benghazi and the hearings scheduled on that. Who are they planning on having testify? John Effin' Kerry, not Hillary, not the one in charge at the time four Americans were killed.

Yeh, I agree.   I hear stupid McCain calling on him to be fired but he needs to go suck on some oatmeal.

[Dori]

I don't know if it matters, if he goes or stays.

I watched part of the hearings last night, and it appears to me that there are so many layers of bureaucracy, that whoever is at the top isn't going to know anyway.

I would think someone who has the experience of running a large multi-divisional company or hospital would be a better choice.  The problem the VA has is in an efficient system. 

Last night they talked about VA doctors having to do a lot of stupid stuff that would be better done by assistants, leaving the doctors to see more patients.  They also need to hire more doctors or pay for the patients to see private doctors.





 

[thundley4]

I don't know if it matters, if he goes or stays.

I watched part of the hearings last night, and it appears to me that there are so many layers of bureaucracy, that whoever is at the top isn't going to know anyway.

I would think someone who has the experience of running a large multi-divisional company or hospital would be a better choice.  The problem the VA has is in an efficient system. 

Last night they talked about VA doctors having to do a lot of stupid stuff that would be better done by assistants, leaving the doctors to see more patients.  They also need to hire more doctors or pay for the patients to see private doctors.

The VA is the 2nd largest employer of the federal government, the 1st is active duty military.  The VA has too many assistants and paper shufflers already.  They do need doctors and other others that actually provide the care.

With the money spent on the bureaucracy of the VA, we could probably buy every entitled veteran the best health insurance available.

[Eupher]

I don't know if it matters, if he goes or stays.

I watched part of the hearings last night, and it appears to me that there are so many layers of bureaucracy, that whoever is at the top isn't going to know anyway.

I would think someone who has the experience of running a large multi-divisional company or hospital would be a better choice.  The problem the VA has is in an efficient system. 

Last night they talked about VA doctors having to do a lot of stupid stuff that would be better done by assistants, leaving the doctors to see more patients.  They also need to hire more doctors or pay for the patients to see private doctors.

The VA, like all bureaucracies in time, serves itself first. It ensures doing so by creating these obscure, mind-boggling levels of bureaucracy that makes it not only impossible for the manager to know what's going on, it deliberately isolates the executive from the real deal.

This provides the "plausible deniability" that Shinseki is hiding behind. As a 4-star general, he knows how the game works. He's lived it, breathed it, excelled in it, else he wouldn't have gotten those 4 stars. Those who refuse to play the game and won't hide behind the bureaucracies that effectively could shield them wind up getting out or retiring at lesser rank.

Shinseki is a Washington insider, despite his military background.

But I agree with thundley. Shinseki needs to clean up the pile of dung and THEN he needs to do the duffle-bag drag.

Should he be forced to resign because of politics, he'll wind up with his feet on the floor. They usually do. He'll serve on a board of directors someplace, or even as the president of a corporation in which he'll get his golden parachute, in addition to the very nice golden parachutes he's already got.

[dutch508]

They should start at the top, with the ****ing idiot who gave us all black berets to wear so we'd feel better about ourselves, line them up against the wall and shoot the whole ****ing bunch of them. I am pretty sure we'd have plenty of veterans who would volunteer to serve in the firing line.

[docstew]

I don't know if it matters, if he goes or stays.

I watched part of the hearings last night, and it appears to me that there are so many layers of bureaucracy, that whoever is at the top isn't going to know anyway.

I would think someone who has the experience of running a large multi-divisional company or hospital would be a better choice.  The problem the VA has is in an efficient system. 

Last night they talked about VA doctors having to do a lot of stupid stuff that would be better done by assistants, leaving the doctors to see more patients.  They also need to hire more doctors or pay for the patients to see private doctors.

The problem the VA has, at least on the healthcare side, is they measure the wrong thing. They incentivize getting a patient to a doctor within 2 weeks of the requested date. It should be based on a customer satisfaction model, i.e. you call and ask for an appointment, they tell you the earliest available is a month away. You take it because 5 minutes later it'll be 6 weeks away. You then get a quick survey, either by snail mail or email and get your chance to express your dissatisfaction with wait times. The incentive is on the system to keep their satisfaction number up.

[Chris_]

Getting rid of Shinseki allows Obama to claim "See!  We fixed the problem!" without actually making any changes to the system, just like the middle management at the ATF that were fired over Fast & Furious.

[Bad Dog]

Getting rid of Shinseki allows Obama to claim "See!  We fixed the problem!" without actually making any changes to the system, just like the middle management at the ATF that were fired over Fast & Furious.

None of them were actually fired.  They were just moved to some other agency and are quietly marking time toward their retirement. 

The bill sent from the House to the Senate suspending the ironclad federal work rules might have allowed at least a chance of straightening the mess out.  But the commie from Vermont killed it.

[obumazombie]

If he had any honor, owebuma would resign. That would fix a lot of problems, but not all. Then we would have Biden.

[Gina]

If he had any honor, owebuma would resign.

Well we know he won't resign then.

[Mike220]

Shinseki is supposed to be meeting with The Won in a few hours. Looks like he's going to fall on his sword to protect BHO.

[Crazy Horse]

Shinseki is supposed to be meeting with The Won in a few hours. Looks like he's going to fall on his sword to protect BHO.

And fall he did.

[Mike220]

And fall he did.

Yup. Now what ****ing moron are they going to pick to replace him?

[Dori]

And fall he did.

Just heard that.  Now what?

A little tidbit I caught last night, was that the VA has 700 lawyers.  That's one reason nothing can get done, and why congress can't get any documents out of them. 

[docstew]

Now the questions for the President need to start:
1. Why did he have to resign, rather than you firing him for incompetence?
2. What are your proposals for the next secretary to implement to fix these issues?

[Mike220]

Now the questions for the President need to start:
1. Why did he have to resign, rather than you firing him for incompetence?
2. What are your proposals for the next secretary to implement to fix these issues?

You expect him to answer substantive questions? That's racist. 

[Gina]

President Obama announced late Friday morning that he has accepted 'with considerable regret' the resignation of scandal-hit Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki.

At a hastily arranged press conference, Obama said: 'Rick's commitment to our veterans is unquestioned ... I am grateful for his service.'

The president said Shinseki, a wounded Vietnam veteran, was a 'very good man' and that it was his own decision to step down – he was becoming a 'distraction' to sorting out the waiting list scandal that has engulfed the agency and the White House in recent weeks.

It was 'Rick's judgement that he could not carry out the next stages of reform without being a distraction himself,' Obama said. 'My assessment was, unfortunately, he is right.'

But just a few hours earlier, Shinseki spoke at a meeting of the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans in Washington, D.C., sounding very much like a man prepared to fight for his with big plans to fix his agency's 'breach of integrity.'

Obama said Friday that Sloan Gibson would step in as acting secretary of the VA while the administration looks for a permanent replacement for Shinseki.

The president said he spoke to Gibson this morning and 'made it clear that reforms should not wait.'

'I said we will not tolerate misconduct, and we will not,' Obama said. 'I said that we could better, and we will.'

[Bad Dog]

Sloane Gibson was, and will continue to be, part of the problem.

[Lacarnut]

I only used the VA services once and that was for free hearing aids. I had the hearing test done at a private facility and the tests were sent to another facility within a week or two. After several months I started calling the VA and was told they had never rec. the tests. Wanted to call that facility but the VA would not give me the phone number. A couple months later I wrote a letter to  Senator Vitter and within a few days I rec a phone call from the VA. They wanted me to  come in that day, got fitted and rec. the aids and a follow appointment the following week.

I have Medicare so I do not intend on ever using them again. If you get jacked around, my advice is to write your US Senator. It helped in my case and it might in yours. BTW, I have written to that b!tch Landreiu and got a form letter back. Also, tried to call her office and never could get thru to one of her lackies and never rec. a call back.   

[Bad Dog]

I only used the VA services once and that was for free hearing aids. I had the hearing test done at a private facility and the tests were sent to another facility within a week or two. After several months I started calling the VA and was told they had never rec. the tests. Wanted to call that facility but the VA would not give me the phone number. A couple months later I wrote a letter to  Senator Vitter and within a few days I rec a phone call from the VA. They wanted me to  come in that day, got fitted and rec. the aids and a follow appointment the following week.

I have Medicare so I do not intend on ever using them again. If you get jacked around, my advice is to write your US Senator. It helped in my case and it might in yours. BTW, I have written to that b!tch Landreiu and got a form letter back. Also, tried to call her office and never could get thru to one of her lackies and never rec. a call back.   

The sad thing is, it doesn't have to be that way.  They have rolled over billions over the last 6 years that could have been spent on care.  You have to give them credit for trying to dispose of the extra money by spreading around  bonuses though.

[docstew]

The sad thing is, it doesn't have to be that way.  They have rolled over billions over the last 6 years that could have been spent on care.  You have to give them credit for trying to dispose of the extra money by spreading around  bonuses though.

I would be curious to see what the VA has spent on items like new furniture, conferences, bonuses, etc. I'm willing to bet it's enough that they could have updated the scheduler's computers (according to 0, that's the big problem) and hired some new doctors...