US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive

[thundley4]

I can see at least one major problem with trying to physically reduce the size of a city. I don't know about other places, but here, many of the businesses that provide taxes for the city are on the outskirts of the town.  I can't see any city willingly giving up any part of their tax base.

[Peter3_1]

They've already been driven out by over taxation. They need mfg. back then tjhe rest follows.

[debk]

I read an article about this a few weeks ago in some email that I got from a Realtor site.

It was not this specific article, but along the same line of tearing down houses.

According to the article....it many of these cities, particularly in the northeast (Rust Belt)....because people could not sell their houses after they lost their jobs, nor pay the mortgage, there are an abundance of properties that have been abandoned. Some for several years.

The article noted that along with no one to purchase these homes, many of which are nice, large, at one time very good family-type homes...they have been abandoned for so long that they are becoming structurally unsound. Wood rot, termites, moisture issues causing severe mold problems, and general decay, are making these homes suffer from structural obsolescence in that it would cost too much to recover the property, even if there were qualified buyers.

Razing the houses, and turning the cleared land into city/community cared for properties is about all that can be done with them. Until jobs come back into the area, bringing the local economy back, there will not be buyers with the exception of speculators who will want to own the land.

Even here, where I live, we have a surplus of homes. After the hurricane season of 2005 and 06, many builders were building homes in the $300-600,000 range, hoping to get people leaving the Florida area to get away from the hurricanes. Like Florida, we donot have state income tax and we have fairly reasonable housing compared to many areas of the country. Well....they didn't come from Florida, because they couldn't sell their homes in Florida. Some local people moved up and had two mortgages....ending up taking a loss on their prior homes. Now, we have an oversupply of houses in most price ranges, but really high, from $250,000 on up. Builder properties, finished and unfinished are going on the auction block or into foreclosure.

I saw a 3700 SF all brick house the other day in the MLS, all that's done is the brick and the windows are in, house is framed in, in a $350,000-$500,000 subdivision for $99,000!!!!! That's crazy! The lot is tax valued at around $50,000.

The whole housing market anywhere in the country, is so incredibly unpredictable right now.....

[Chris]

I saw a 3700 SF all brick house the other day in the MLS, all that's done is the brick and the windows are in, house is framed in, in a $350,000-$500,000 subdivision for $99,000!!!!! That's crazy! The lot is tax valued at around $50,000.

Is it in a nice neighborhood?  Send me the address

[Peter3_1]

me too!

[Chris]

Houses, roads... who needs 'em?

Rural Mich. counties turn failing roads to gravel

More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years, according to the County Road Association of Michigan. The counties are struggling with their budgets because tax revenues have declined in the lingering recession.
     
The county estimates it takes about $10,000 to grind up a mile of pavement and put down gravel. It takes more than $100,000 to repave a mile of road.
     
Reverting to gravel has happened in a few other states but it is most typical in Michigan. At least 50 miles have been reverted in the state in the past three years.

[Eupher]

My property is on a gravel road. No way in hell is it ever gonna be paved - it's only a quarter mile.

[thundley4]

Most of the roads where I grew up were oil/gravel roads. I can remember using gas to get that stuff of my feet.  I can still remember the sound of gravel hitting the underside of a car on freshly covered roads.

[Eupher]

Most of the roads where I grew up were oil/gravel roads. I can remember using gas to get that stuff of my feet.  I can still remember the sound of gravel hitting the underside of a car on freshly covered roads.

Yeah, what a concept! Spreading oil on dirt roads to keep the dust down! And today, the idea of dumping a quart of oil along a weedy area to kill the grass is something that can result in an arrest warrant these days.

[Chris]

Yeah, what a concept! Spreading oil on dirt roads to keep the dust down! And today, the idea of dumping a quart of oil along a weedy area to kill the grass is something that can result in an arrest warrant these days.

When I was a kid, my dad used to have me dump his used oil down the storm drain at the far end of the cul-de-sac.

[zeitgeist]

Yeah, what a concept! Spreading oil on dirt roads to keep the dust down! And today, the idea of dumping a quart of oil along a weedy area to kill the grass is something that can result in an arrest warrant these days.

Ah yes, and a friend of mine father use to run a successful business oiling "camp" roads.  Problem was back then oil was oil and well, transformers use to have oil in them which contained PCB's.  He used the same equipment in a septic tank business, who's business he spread over fields.  Of course the fields were near wetlands / brooks and ponds......oh my.   Was any of this intentional?  Nope.  Did it do some real environmental harm? Probably.

And now a word from our friends at the DUMP on this very topic.

Dr_Willie_Feelgood (5 posts)       Fri Jun-12-09 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. I am a cab driver in Metro Detroit
 I drive the streets and neighborhoods. I see the empty, burned out shells. And the sad reality is, most of the city is a disaster.

There is no way to effectively rehab most of these properties. Once it is abandoned (and sometimes even when occupied), the wiring, the plumbing, anything of value is stripped out.

The city is SUPPOSED to enforce the law, to watch to scrapyards, etc. but the task is overwhelming when the understaffed PD is running their tails off from call to call.

As for relying on the homeless to homestead and fix them, many in that situation are incapable or unwilling. They need supervision and assistance, not to be thrown into a dangerous situation they are financially, mentally, and/or emotionally unequipped to deal with.

Bust the blight, assist the weak, and let the city regrow organically!

Yet another low post Urban Pioneer chimes in:

greengestalt (49 posts)      Sat Jun-13-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
38. Property crime
 First, these areas used to be primarily farmland. Till Judd the Farmer was bankrupted by being blocked from the local markets and Big Ag undercutting him with stuff flown from 1000 miles away but due to US Pork bailout being far cheaper than he could ever grow.


But this is to inflate property values. If a bank has a thousand foreclosed houses, it can't get people to beg to sign a faustian loan for them. It's lost all it's money and will beg them to buy a $100,000 house (today's prices) for $10,000 just so they can avoid being taken over by the feds...


But if they can bulldoze all these economic slums, they'll reduce the supply of homes and increase demand by definition.


Its property crime, Its a human rights violation.


Here's what they should do and what we could make them do:

Make them liable for the property they own, so that if someone cooks meth in an abandoned house, they are responsible for the cleanup...etc. So they not only own all these homes, but they have to maintain them. But they can 'donate' the house to a homeless charity -or- sell it at low prices that charities can help people match. (or they can also not foreclose on the homeowner but reduce what they demand so they get some money, not more property) A good other point is to keep pressuring local officials to use the law on employers that hire illegals. No illegals means more jobs that have to be filled, so plenty of unemployed people could then get jobs. Low wage but humane and combined with low property values equates to the beginnings of a better standard of living. People can pick themselves up then, and most will greatly given the opportunity.

 

[Peter3_1]

Yeard ago I saw a Simplex/Crane parked in the street. A beautiful speedster model. Oil was leaking from the still hot engine. The owner was in a nearby cafe, I told him of the "leak", and he smiled. He said the engine was a "total loss" oiling system. The oil went thru the engine, into the crank case, then out onto the ground. about a quart every 50 miles. The oil resivoir was 5 gallons. The enging was the original UNREBUILT as the oil had never carried contaminants from wear or combustion thru it. In the day, they were well liked as they kept the dust down.....

Looks as if they may again be popular.....

[JohnnyReb]

50 miles of state road has reverted to gravel roads....HA....20 years ago my county alone had over 1800 miles of dirt road they maintained.