subway cat explains usury

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3653368

Oh my.

The primitives, always experts on finance, economics, and history.

marmar  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-21-08 01:58 PM
Original message

William Greider: "Usury...is rich people taking advantage of poor people....This is Usury."

......

No point in copying-and-pasting the whole bonfire started by the marmalade primitive, or the comments of the other primitives.

undergroundpanther  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-21-08 03:48 PM
Response to Original message

13. usury goes deeper than this..

On a planet with soil,rain, plants,plants grow .Plants grew and bore fruits before people existed. Plants seeded and grew and fed many animals for millions of years for FREE.

Than as time went on ,and plants still grew the seeds propagated the plants, fed by soil rain and sun, FOR FREE.And Food was FREE to any who would eat it,birds bears or humans all ate for FREE.

The seeds got spread through the feces of those who ate the fruits,and the plants flourished and there was food everywhere for FREE..It was all free.

Until some asshole greedy piece of shit, made up a game,of master and servant,and very selfish game,called control-over...He hung a price tag on the plants,claimed he owned it all,and took possession of it by driving out others.So for people to eat they had to pay "the man" with the guns, hoarding what was once free for everyone.

And so existence became Pay-as-you-go.

By that I mean if you don't pay someone else for what grows for free you don't get to live.This is extortion.

This is the real problem, extortion.

People thinking they can OWN water air the land,and deprive others..When the "owners" die the truth comes out, they don't even own their bodies or their last breath.So Inheritance was invented.

This ownership lie has moved into claiming ownership over what people imagine,imagining is FREE,but once a price tag is hung on it you must pay to see it or hear it.People sing,the sound is FREE,but some sounds you must PAY for? Why? This system of usury and the people who enable it is why you must pay and pay.

Still the Earth grows plants but they are not free anymore,and this applies only to humans.

The earth has animals here ,Some are not living free or free for humans to hunt and eat either, but they once were free for humans and animals that could catch them. Prey animals are still FREE for cougars, lions and tigers,they get their food for free but humans must PAY. Why is that?

No lion pays a human for the"privilege" of catching and eating food.Yet humans do pay humans to eat.Why?

Because humans are DOMESTICATED, ever faithful and obedient to the system of the extortionist, The system of usury that exists by making free things cost us.. This usury/extortion racket was invented by a few greedy very manipulating people,so some people can get more than they give,so they could live lives without needs unmet,so some could have power with none of the responsibility,so some can get something for nothing(profit)at everyone else's expense.

We can agree water has been around a VERY long time. Water was once drinkable and everywhere, in springs that bubbled up from deep in the Earth, in lakes rivers and it was all FREE..But that is no longer true, for human made for profit industry has polluted the waters so that in some cases fish can't even live there. So now water that is drink-able has been stolen from us.

Water existed and slaked many thirsts long before some asshole came along polluted it,bottled it, "filtered" it and hung a price tag on it,and sold it at a cost back to us,you know.

Water was once,FREE,to any who thirsted and saw a spring,they drank from it bird cat plant or human,didn't matter.

Water Buffalo do not pay some water company for the privilege of drinking and bathing in a river.Nor do birds. But we humans PAY and PAY and PAY with tokens that represent life time,toiling at a 'job' to pay a rich person,just to have the privilege of drinking WATER??...WTF??

Usury began I think long ago, it began right before"civilization" came to be.One bullying person believed he was superior and he had a right to deprive the others of access to food, water,shelter,companionship, warmth, all those things on the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.The bully was a sociopath,and a very clever one.

That bully knew to create the illusion of power and to have 'authority over others, he had to take away from the others something the EARTH provides for ALL,and deprive them of sustenance to CONTROL them,to use them.

He knew he had to get together a mean psychopathic posse of ambitious greedy thugs to be his fists and spying eyes to make him a "big man".He had to let other thugs into the gang, in on the deal, with bribes, promises of power and a cut of the resource pool or special access to something..If said upstart despot wanted to be able to hijack and control a spring that supplied water to many people and animals,and "possess it" for himself.

He needed a loyal posse happy in their servitude,and ready to kill for a higher status in the group playing this bullies game of power-over, to force or convince the ones who were NOT in the"elite" gang, to PAY the bullies, for access to water from a spring that bubbled up from the earth that once was there for FREE, open to all that thirsted..But because of the bully and his posse of thugs this watering hole has become territory that is occupied.

In the Savanna,Antelope, Gazelles, Zebra,Crocodiles,Birds,Hippos and Lions all drink and bathe from the same sources of water.There is a recognition in the animal kingdom that water is necessary for life.The Lions know if the Gazelle,Antelope,and Zebra don't get a chance to drink at the watering hole..The Lions won't get to eat,after all the prey perishes of thirst. No species occupies the water hole all to itself.

Humans caught up in games of power and control,domination and submission,have forgotten this democratic reciprocal relationship is what life on this planet requires for all to live. Usury is theft of life. Theft that is so accepted, seen as normal as "property rights" and the only way societies can function has blinded us to our past and our future ways.

A society can live without an authority figure or costly social hierarchy.A society can thrive in peace IF psychopaths, bullies and despots are contained, killed or NOT trusted or given power.

Usury/extortion,pay as you go existence is the ONLY way a TOP DOWN, master and slave hierarchical cultures can exist.Every dominator needs an OTHER to dominate.So some are trained and conditioned to accept being dominated and deprived,always asking permission and paying the master.A dominator that cannot dominate anyone is just an asshole.

A owner that is disbelieved when it comes to what he takes from the others ( that which he says he owns), is greedy despot,and if his pitch of lies is believed by the people,he will tyrannize to the point of being a toxin to humanities well being and destroy the natural state of democracy and the solidarity of kin and community that keeps false power in check..

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3248-democracy-be...

Because of the systemic ABUSE bullies and their posse regularly do to humans through generation after generation,people have gotten used to their chains and roles.The mental bars in their minds rule out any alternatives to the system they are conditioned to think they wanted...We have been taken advantage of by the usurious bullies despots for a very long time.And it has taken a toll on our happiness,potential, wellbeing and health. We are now forced to work all the days of our lives away just to pay some corporation for what the Earth itself gives for FREE,enriching the thugs that "own" us.

Usury is evil wrong,and cruel.Yet by many people are so used to being abused and paying for things they will defend this usurious lie and belief system even if it kills them to do so. Property is usury is theft.
And no one has a right to own the things that existence and the earth gives us all for free.NO ONE.For when one has what others cannot get but need to live this is EXTORTION. Extortion on a grand scale,normalized.

Look at the animal world,they do not play this game,or have usury. Why? Because animals know what survival requires it requires kin and community and sharing. .Humans have forgotten this basic lesson and soon we will kill this planet with our usury game gone out of control..

Compare animals to humanity in regards of usury.WE are the ones ****ed in the head,the weirdest monkeys..

Humans are the only species convinced by it's most destructive members, to pay life and toil to a despot,tyrant,bully and his posse for the 'privilege' to eat and drink what the earth gives to all that live, freely.

We as a species must stop playing make believe about'ownership' ,control, and that empty sound called 'authority' and letting corporations(paper bullies) and human bullies dominate us to cheat us out of our natural rights by imposing a pay- as- you - live extortion on every human being.This zero sum game has to STOP...

after which the subway cat quotes some really stupid song or poem or ode or whatever

[USA4ME]

Ever notice that the very people who complain about extortion never refuse a handout which is made available from the same system they deplore?

.

[franksolich]

Ever notice that the very people who complain about extortion never refuse a handout which is made available from the same system they deplore?

That's my bitch about the subway cat, too.

[JohnnyReb]

There it is. The liberal vision of/for our future, nekkid and up a tree..

[Airwolf]

Ever notice that the very people who complain about extortion never refuse a handout which is made available from the same system they deplore?

.

yep. Especially from that one.

[Splashdown]

I got as far as "greedy piece of shit" before I stopped reading. 

Actually, UP, what happened was something called "division of labor." If I remember my 6th grade social studies correctly, that is one of the three underpinnings of civilization, the other two being surplus of food and centralized communities. See, if you do the fruit picking, that frees me up to do the animal herding. We trade, and now we both have more than if we did everything ourselves.

[Carl]

Her continued use of the word "FREE" tells all one needs to know about her.

To wish for things without personal effort and responsibility is the ultimate definition of greed which she rails about.

[LC EFA]

A couple of points :

First , UGP clearly has no idea whatsoever just how what a mean-ass dog-eat-dog, survival of the strongest bitch that mother nature is.

He/She/It seems to has this conception that nature is all warm and friendly and the lion-lay-down-with-the-sheep in the mint patch type system. This is pretty much the opposite of what I've observed nature to be, having spent quite some time actually out there observing it.


Second , He/She/It really needs to figure out that "Free" doesn't exist. Everything has cost.

[MrsSmith]

I think it would be cool if someone gave UP about 5 acres of FREE land upon which she/he/cat must raise, harvest and prepare all it's food for FREE.  If nothing else, it would be an excellent diet plan...

 

[Lord Undies]

It irks the disturbed bitch that people aren't members of the animal kingdom.  Someone needs to step in and take her computer away.  It only feeds her mental disease.

[Chris_]

Ever notice that the very people who complain about extortion never refuse a handout which is made available from the same system they deplore?

That's my bitch about the subway cat, too.

I think the subway cat is consistent -- everything she wants should be free.  Always.

[LC EFA]

I think it would be cool if someone gave UP about 5 acres of FREE land upon which she/he/cat must raise, harvest and prepare all it's food for FREE.  If nothing else, it would be an excellent diet plan...

I was thinking that dropping it into the middle of a nice tropical jungle with nothing but skin ('cause everything in nature is free)  would be more suitable. Preferably somewhere with tigers. Real Tigers.

[Carl]

I think it would be cool if someone gave UP about 5 acres of FREE land upon which she/he/cat must raise, harvest and prepare all it's food for FREE.  If nothing else, it would be an excellent diet plan...

 

To make it even better drop two more utopian idealists in with her to see how well they share the basic responsibilities of providing for themselves and each other.

They would all but one be dead in no time and the third from starvation some time later.

[miskie]

A couple of points :

First , UGP clearly has no idea whatsoever just how what a mean-ass dog-eat-dog, survival of the strongest bitch that mother nature is.

He/She/It seems to has this conception that nature is all warm and friendly and the lion-lay-down-with-the-sheep in the mint patch type system. This is pretty much the opposite of what I've observed nature to be, having spent quite some time actually out there observing it.


Second , He/She/It really needs to figure out that "Free" doesn't exist. Everything has cost.

Indeed. Darwin frowns upon UP's rant as entirely untrue and unrealistic. The "watering hole" story is almost laughable.

Hippos HATE everything in a watering hole they have claimed as their own. They do not share.

Crocodiles use Watering holes to trap prey, knowing full well that something tasty will be by for a drink sooner or later.

About Feeding:
 
Watch any nature program where predator animals catch, kill and eat something. There is a pecking order as to who eats first, to who eats last. Why is that ? According to your rant there is no social hierarchy in nature. Even social insects such as ants and bees practice division of labor, and have a clear structure where some ants and bees are more important than others, and those on the bottom rung are expendable.

About Warfare:

Ever see two competing ant colonies go to war ? I have - its fascinating to watch. Did you know ants actually carry off their own dead and injured ?

Ants "domesticate" Aphids -- Sort of -- they keep them to eat their sugary secretions - the ants also use extreme behavior modification techniques to meet this goal - such as chemically drugging the aphids and eating their wings to keep them from flying away. The ants will occasionally eat an aphid or two as an example to the others.

Ants also keep other ants as slaves. Sanguinary ants will capture the unborn larvae from an enemy nest and then raise them as slaves.

 So UP, your anti-human crap is just that, crap. The social orders and Usury you describe has existed long before mankind.  

  

[Splashdown]

On a planet with soil,rain, plants,plants grow .Plants grew and bore fruits before people existed. Plants seeded and grew and fed many animals for millions of years for FREE.

Than as time went on ,and plants still grew the seeds propagated the plants, fed by soil rain and sun, FOR FREE.And Food was FREE to any who would eat it,birds bears or humans all ate for FREE.

The seeds got spread through the feces of those who ate the fruits,and the plants flourished and there was food everywhere for FREE..It was all free.

Upon further review...


Isn't this how UP exists? What does UP contribute to society? It goes to a store, picks what it wants, and takes it without paying for it. YOu and I pay for it, because it is on public assistance. UP, in actuality DOES go through the world and is fed for free. IT doesn't pay a thing. WE pay for it.

And the thing still has the gall to rail against a society where it doesn't do anything to contribute, and still gets to eat. Where else does THAT happen in nature?

[MrsSmith]

I think it would be cool if someone gave UP about 5 acres of FREE land upon which she/he/cat must raise, harvest and prepare all it's food for FREE.  If nothing else, it would be an excellent diet plan...

I was thinking that dropping it into the middle of a nice tropical jungle with nothing but skin ('cause everything in nature is free)  would be more suitable. Preferably somewhere with tigers. Real Tigers.

FREE tigers.   

[Chris_]

I think it would be cool if someone gave UP about 5 acres of FREE land upon which she/he/cat must raise, harvest and prepare all it's food for FREE.  If nothing else, it would be an excellent diet plan...

I was thinking that dropping it into the middle of a nice tropical jungle with nothing but skin ('cause everything in nature is free)  would be more suitable. Preferably somewhere with tigers. Real Tigers.

FREE tigers.   

HUNGRY tigers. 

[Chris_]

I think it would be cool if someone gave UP about 5 acres of FREE land upon which she/he/cat must raise, harvest and prepare all it's food for FREE.  If nothing else, it would be an excellent diet plan...

I was thinking that dropping it into the middle of a nice tropical jungle with nothing but skin ('cause everything in nature is free)  would be more suitable. Preferably somewhere with tigers. Real Tigers.

FREE tigers.   :-)

HUNGRY tigers.  :cheersmate:

"libtards they're GREAT!"

[DixieBelle]

H5's all around. This is a good thread.

[Vagabond]

More proof for my Underground Panther is a savage file.

She demands that the farmer give her crops from the field he plowed, weeded, fertilized, seeded, nurtured and harvested.  (Produce that does not grow as abundantly or as largely in a natural setting, btw.)

She demands that the herdsman give her the goods resulting from his husbandry of animals.  (Animals that would be smaller and more dangerous in nature.)

She demands the same of the miner, the blacksmith, and the cook.

She claims that she wants everyone to get goods for free.  This is not true, she wants them for herself and whomever she decides.  She wants them for the least amount effort. Without the government she is a highway brigand preying upon anyone who has something she wants and can't resist her.

My definition of a savage refers to the certain group of a society, that absent the willingness of society to send men with guns to stop their predations would run to loot, rape, and murder.  It is also that todays society attempts to sate them with the theft and bribery of welfare.

[Tucker]

No lion pays a human for the"privilege" of catching and eating food

The Lion is no different than a human. He runs down and catches an antelope. He, and he alone decides who will share in the feast or HIS food. Try to take some without permission and see what happens.

[dandi]

The same food that Cat Scratch Fever laments was once free is still free, if you're willing to schlep out to your local woodlands and dig up the same roots, grubs, wild berries, insects, small rodents, etc., upon which our ancient ancestors mainly subsisted. A lot of counties will let you fish for free if you use a cane pole or spear. You'll need a license for game animals, though I suggest you use a spear or club or large rock to dispatch them once you chase them down if you want that real flavor of the days when they were all totally "free".

Cultivated crops and farm-raised animals have never been free. You either had to work your ass off for them or barter something else of value. If you want your food Grade A, USDA Inspected, coveniently packaged and obtained without clawing your way through the brambles and mud to get it, then you're going to have to compensate those who put forth their own labor and money to produce it for you.

Oherwise, enjoy your roots and field mice.