http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6301737Oh my.
The maudlin waif primitive:
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:24 AM
Original message
My One Republican Friend...
I'm fortunate in a lot of respects. I don't have any Republican family members, either on my own side or as in-laws, that I have to tolerate. My father's a life-long Dem, his g/f doesn't follow politics, and my mother-in-law is one of my biggest fans (for both my fiction and my political stuff). Most of my friends are liberals too, and even one of my oldest friends, who's a bit more conservative than I am, is leaning more and more my direction since everything started going to shit. He's a conservative Dem, if anything. But toward the end of the Bush regime he was starting to sound like a certified lefty. Him AND his redneck roommate.
But I've got a friend at work, a co-worker, whose quite openly a young Republican. Despite this, I actually like him quite a bit. He's a good kid, a good worker, and very rarely foams at the mouth. But he's so serious about being a Republican, he got the red, white, and blue elephant tattooed on his arm. I just saw it today and burst out laughing.
"Are you serious?" I asked him, pointing at the tat.
"You planning on getting the donkey on yours?" he asked me, grinning.
I shook my head. "Nuh-uh," I told him. "I'm not all that happy with them right now," I said in a growl.
We've talked politics before and though we know we see a lot of things differently, we usually start with the things we agree on. Like gun control, for example. We're both for reasonable legislation that keeps weapons out of the hands of crazies, but have no issue at all with sane, responsible, law-abiding citizens having access to weapons.
It's one of the things it's very easy for us to find common ground on, and that gives us a platform from which we can explore other things as intelligent people, not bitter enemies. As I said, I really like this kid despite his Republicanism. I get the feeling he feels the same way about me from the opposite end.
Rather a surprise, considering I haven't met many other Republicans I like. Ever. He doesn't spout talking points, preferring to use his own words to express his opinions (something that raises his status immensely in my estimation).
Anyway... We got to talking about health care. He said something about being for reasonable regulation of the insurance companies... Basically, price controls. I pointed out that, from my perspective, insurance companies don't really add anything to the process, and their whole purpose is to make a profit by refusing care whenever they can get away with it.
He couldn't argue the point. Didn't even try. He knows it's true as well as we do. Then, as we were heading our separate ways, I mentioned Single Payer and said "just from the perspective of being fiscally conservative, it's actually our least expensive option."
He thought about it and nodded, saying "Yeah, I guess that's true."
I feel good about being able to get just one Republican to see it from that perspective. Despite the fact that he's a very religious, very "right" thinking individual, he's willing to keep an open mind about such things. It says a lot about him, and a lot about the issue. We CAN reach those willing to open their minds the tiniest bit. But we have to do it as individuals, and in the spirit of mutual respect.
As I also mentioned. "If you talk to average people from Canada, Britain, or other countries with universal health care, one of the things you hear is that they absolutely wouldn't give it up. Particularly not for what we have. And that says something too."
Smart kid. That had him nodding as well. Even if I planted a tiny seed, that seed might grow. And even if he remains a Republican (he has the damned elephant tattooed on his upper arm, for crissakes-- ) he might grow to be the kind of Republican we won't mind sharing a country with, one with whom we can respectfully disagree without getting into a shouting match.
When I first admitted to being a liberal, during the early days when I was training him, he asked me what it meant to me. My first response was "tolerant. Accepting of people who are different than I am." And so far he's seen what that means with regard to himself. He's religious, Republican, and goofy enough to get that damn elephant tattoo. But I accept him. And he accepts me. And I think we're friends despite all of our differences.
It's not much, but it's something.
The maudlin waif primitive needs to get out more.
mwooldri (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like your "Republican" friend is actually a liberal.
A classical liberal, yes. a small 'l' liberal. But a liberal nevertheless.
Friendship should always transcend political beliefs.
And proper Republicans have some good points too. Too many loonies in power at the top of the Republican Party though.
LiberalAndProud (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. Health care really isn't a partisan issue, is it?
I like your young Republican.
I like my Republican uncles.
I hate the "hate Republicans" who make true bipartisanship (common sense government) impossible
The Rita Hayworth primitive:
Tangerine LaBamba (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Startling.........
What a startling piece............
Oh now, the Rita Hayworth primitive knows she always has a Republican friend in franksolich.
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Startling? How so?
Oh, and btw... Sorry about that disagreement we had some time back. I was cranky and defensive, and perhaps unnecessarily disrespectful. I reacted emotionally rather than rationally and that's usually something I try to avoid. Particularly here. If we could write it off as being, at least in part, related to my having recently quit smoking I'd be most appreciative.
I'll bet the smoking the maudlin waif primitive just quit was regular cigarette smoking, but not dope.
proteus_lives (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. There are sane Republicans.
I have know some in my personal and professional life. And one of my personal heroes, Teddy Roosevelt, was a Republican.
47of74 (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Yes, but they don't speak loudly enough against the extremists
And as a result the extremists are the only ones heard, and the main reason I can't stomach Republicans anymore.
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. It's hard for a couple people to out-shout a mob...
Particularly when the media's only interested in what the crazies have to say. They don't have to work to marginalize the sane ones... the media does it for them.
TheKentuckian (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. That kind of Republican is usually a Democrat now that is running from the crazies
I almost never deal with any kind of conservative (and certainly no Republican) anymore that isn't channeling Rush/Beck and can express and actually discuss issues without shutting down with the lame brained empty blinking when really challenged.
Sounds like your buddy is receptive to reality based dialog and that means that he'll have a hell of a time being a Republican long term despite the ink.
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yeah, it does seem rather weird, doesn't it?
He's a proud Republican despite how crazy the rest of them seem to be. It might be people like him who manage to pick up the pieces after they finish tearing it to shreds.
I think a lot of it is his religious beliefs, which are most likely pretty far right evangelical from what I can tell. (We DON'T talk religion--the only ones I talk about religion with at work are fellow agnostics and the like). He absolutely thinks homosexuality is wrong, for example, but he understands that I do not. I've never seen him treat gay co-workers or customers with anything but respect, though, so there's that side of it as well.
Doug's stupid ex-wife:
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. Nice profile, interesting mix.
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 04:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Maybe I'm just tired, but that went right by me...
What was that again?
The maudlin waif primitive wasn't tired, just high, and so it went right by him.
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I am tired and wasn't clear.
Your friend isn't the standard cartoon of a Republican that seems to be the new normal for them. He was more interesting because of that.
Doug's stupid ex-wife wasn't tired, just overdosed on pharmaceuticals, and so she wasn't clear.
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Ah... No, he's not.
I'll bet that deep down he wishes they'd go away as much as we do.
47of74 (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
13. You're lucky
I've got an office neocon that loves nothing more than to spout off every bullshit thing that Hannity, Beck, etc etc says. He was getting so loud-mouthed that I think management talked to him about it.
grantcart (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. One suggestion
When it comes up again ask him if he is for competition for the 'marketplace of ideas'
Young Republicans love this meme.
the fact is around the world no other country wants what the Republicans are arguing.
Conservatives in England, Candad and Australia all love their system. Of the 60 major parties in developed countries only the Republican Party does not accept that there is a moral (not just practical) imperative for universal health care.
You can find some examples here of conservatives in other countries who call their National Health Care system "their sacred Trust".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/grantcart/188
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I know about the "sacred trust" thing...
That's why I challenged him to talk to real people from those countries... Even (or especially) "conservatives." But he needs to talk to them personally, not get the info third or fourth or fifth-hand.
What's with the "marketplace of ideas" thing, anyway?
eridani (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:45 AM
Response to Original message
16. Unfortunately, the Republicans for Single Payer site has been hijacked
Haven't been able to contact the webmaster.
Hmmm. Maybe the cross-eyed Iowa primitive, the "HawkeyeX" primitive, finally succeeded in getting a web-site taken down. That'd be a first.
Mythsaje (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. That sucks...
They popped into my mind when I was writing this.
Jeep789 (757 posts) Fri Aug-14-09 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
19. I applaud your effort and have been doing the same at work with much the same (sloe but steady) results. What I fear is that while our slow and steady approach armed with facts works on the few we have time to reach, "they" are busy filling hoards with lies. What good is reaching out to them one at a time while "they" control the media and each many?
We have got to undo the deregulation of the public airways. Why the heck should Murdoch own the majority of the news that people hear?
Joseph Goebbels, 1938, "We must regulate what the public hears."
Yawn.
