primitives discuss entrapment of terrorists

[franksolich]

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5694215

Oh my.

The shadowy primitive:

shadowknows69  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 02:20 AM
Original message
 
It's ****ing bullshit entrapment and it will be used to continue Bush/Cheney policies mark my words
 
Four men arrested in suspected NY (synagogue, plane) bombing plot

<http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE54K0K6200... >

I will eat my hat if I'm wrong.

I went to the link provided by the shadowy primitive, and here it is:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Four men were arrested on Wednesday in a suspected plot to bomb a synagogue and Jewish community center in New York City and to shoot at military planes with stinger missiles, law enforcement officials said.

A joint release from the acting U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, the FBI and the New York Police Department said the suspects were charged with plotting to detonate explosives near a synagogue in the Riverdale section of New York's Bronx borough.

The men were also charged with plotting to shoot military planes located at New York's Air National Guard base at Stewart airport in Newburgh, New York, with stinger surface-to-air guided missiles, the statement said. Newburgh is about 60 miles north of New York City.

"The defendants wanted to engage in terrorist attacks. They selected targets and sought the weapons necessary to carry out their plans," Lev Dassin, acting U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York, said in the statement.

The four men, identified as James Cromitie, David Williams, Onta Williams and Laguerre Payen, were arrested after buying an inactive missile and inert explosives in a sting operation run by the FBI and other agencies, the complaint said.

"While the bombs these terrorists attempted to plant tonight were -- unbeknownst to them -- fake, this latest attempt to attack our freedoms shows that the homeland security threats against New York City are sadly all too real," New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said in a separate statement.....

If the governor of New York--a Democrat and a black, remember--said it was a threat, I don't see why the primitives are all wadded up about it.

leftstreet  (1000+ posts)      Thu May-21-09 02:22 AM
Response to Original message
 
1. What color is our Terror Threat Level?

Anyone know?

BuyingThyme (1000+ posts)      Thu May-21-09 02:28 AM
Response to Original message

3. If this doesn't work, they'll just sell 'em fake nukes next time.

bottomtheweaver (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
 
4. TERRA!!!111 TERRA!!!111

except, it wasn't.

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
 
6. If the facts alleged by the authorities are correct -- that is, if the accused actually purchased what they thought were explosives and planted them thinking that they would blow up a synagogue -- then making an entrapment case to a jury will be a hard sell

As I understand it, the essence of an entrapment defense is that the authorities have seduced the accused into a crime the accused otherwise did not contemplate. On that standard, I'll still hold the opinion that the Liberty City clowns were entrapped, since they seem to have been a gaggle of apolitical borderline incompetents, to whom the FBI promised money and shoes in return for promises of allegience to an illegal organization: it's easy to imagine their real interest was the promised goodies.

On the other hand, an entrapment case here (if the alleged facts are correct) requires one to believe the authorities somehow seduced the accused into taking material steps suggesting a depraved indifference to innocent life -- which one might expect to be a more difficult seduction

BuyingThyme (1000+ posts)      Thu May-21-09 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
 
7. I think an entrapment case will be a slam dunk on the WMD charges.

It's hard to get WMD if the FBI isn't supplying 'em.

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
 
12. In my understanding, entrapment does not lie in the fact that authorities helped one take material steps towards a crime, but in the fact that one was not even seriously contemplating the crime before the authorities worked their evil magic

bottomtheweaver (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 03:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
 
9. What if they didn't try to buy the weapons?

The BBC-radio is running a report with an American reporter who says the FBI informant "sold, er, provided them with" the fake bombs. So what if they didn't pick the targets? What if they didn't drive the cars? What if they weren't even there? They'll still get convicted no doubt, but at this point all we know is what the FBI and its cop pals are telling us.

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #9

10. Of course: that's why "if the alleged facts are correct" appears repeatedly in my post

The questions of fact you raise are all legitimate in my view, and I have no basis for any opinion about what actually happened, nor have I expressed such an opinion

And, of course, after eight years of Bushista, we should expect continuing residual Bushit

bottomtheweaver (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #10
 
11. I don't think the facts are going to mean much in this particular case.

If they want a conviction, they'll get one, unless an extraordinarily talented attorney volunteers to represent these guys, and even then it probably wouldn't make much difference.

Garbo 2004  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
 
8. Copy of the Federal complaint that led to their arrest...

direct link to pdf: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/BombPlot.pdf

The article says they bought explosives and a missile, but I don't think my blurry eyed reading of the complaint confirms that. The "cooperating witness" working for the Feds "provided" them to the guys (samples on spec). They were supplied to the CW by the Feds of course. The CW had previously cut a "cooperation agreement" with the Feds after getting snagged in a criminal fraud case for which he/she served 5 yrs probation. Cooperating witness who just happened upon guys planning mayhem and played them or agent provocateur who led them into planning attacks and obtaining weapons?

General rule of thumb: If someone tells you he can get you a sweet deal on some C-4 and missiles, just say no.

We'll see how this case goes.

kentuck  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
 
13. This is similar to the story out of Florida...when a Federal agent bought clothes and shoes for the terrorists.

[Ralph Wiggum]

The DUmmies don't know whether to praise 0bama for stopping a terror attack or stick to their old guns, which is that there aren't actually any terrorists.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Struggle4progress appears to have a much better grasp of criminal law than the rest of that pack of semi-literate buffoons.

[JohnnyReb]

Terrorist Entrapment: Solution: Giant mouse traps baited with naked virgins (if the naked virgins have to be of legal age or Helen Thomas is busy then I guess we'll have to scatch the project) but anyway, it's a known fact that muslims have a 'thing' for virgins and rape. So we set these terrorist traps and if they work as planned, no GITMO, no trials, no prison expenses, no problems, no nothing but more dog food and glue.

[Lord Undies]

I'll bet these were just sweet apple pie-loving boys who were on their way to school one morning when they heard "Pssst...co'mer, son" from behind a lamp post.   

[Happy Fun Ball]

This sounds very much like someone trying to hire a hitman to kill their husband/wife/coworker/etc. only to have it turn out to be an undercover agent. He would go along with ruse until the deal is complete, then arrest the low-life.

Another example can be seen on Bait Car, a show on TruTV (I still call it CourtTV sometimes). They would put out a car rigged with a cut-off switch and a camera, and wait until some thief comes along and steals it. After he gets the car moving, they shut down the car and arrest the crooks. This wouldn't be entrapment either since they were already looking to steal a car in the first place, and if that sucker car wasn't there, they would have ended up stealing another car anyway.

[thundley4]

I read about this story on the NY Daily News website, curiously enough they had something that the Reuters item lacked.

The suspects - three U.S.-born citizens and one Haitian immigrant - at least three of whom were said to be jailhouse converts to Islam, were angry about the deaths of Muslims in Afghanistan, sources told The News.

Link

This seems like another damn good reason to keep the GitMo detainees out of prisons here in the US. There are plenty of convicts being converted to Islam already, we don't need even more radical Muslims working to convert prisoners.

[RobJohnson]

Struggle4progress appears to have a much better grasp of criminal law than the rest of that pack of semi-literate buffoons.

yeah, but then he turns back into a DUmmie...

struggle4progress  (1000+ posts)        Thu May-21-09 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #9

10. Of course: that's why "if the alleged facts are correct" appears repeatedly in my post

The questions of fact you raise are all legitimate in my view, and I have no basis for any opinion about what actually happened, nor have I expressed such an opinion

And, of course, after eight years of Bushista, we should expect continuing residual Bushit