Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...

[Zeus]

Let me get this straight, Zeus.

You're basing your entire argument as to what constitutes a conservative on whether or not he/she condemns or supports the practice of having children out of wedlock?

Seriously?

 

You can laugh all you want at least I don't have to lie to support my position.

let's leave it at that ok.

[Eupher]

You can laugh all you want at least I don't have to lie to support my position.

let's leave it at that ok.

Sure, no problem.

 

[MrsSmith]

So all the invective directed toward an opinion that out of wedlock single motherhood is a bad thing isn't an endorsement of same.

If it wasn't for being judgmental all sin & lawlessness would go unanswered.

More invective.

Ok I'm not a conservative , I'm an asshole, I can go **** myself etc because I don't believe out of wedlock single motherhood is good for the mother , the Child or society in general then so be it. I respect the right for all the posters who disagree with my opinion on the matter I just venture most conservatives would agree with my stance.

I don't believe it's good for the mother, the child, or society either.  However, it's a lot better than murdering the child, especially if said mother is able to raise her child without depending on the government for everything.  Of those I mention, 2 are employed full-time and do not receive any government assistance at this time. The 3rd is living in our house, and she is on our insurance, so only the grandchild receives any assistance in the form of health coverage. 

And I do believe it is a conservative value to avoid murdering children, and to support your own as much as possible.  I can't force the next generation to follow Christian teachings any more than I can force any other adult, so instead we do all we can and work to provide a good example.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Ah I see calling my conservative credentials into question and my defense of smacks of elitism, arrogance, and pomposity...

Not exactly a conservative Ideal. Actually more like something one could expect of the liberal ideology...

Do you get to drink twice as much Sacramental Wine having two faces like that?

[obumazombie]

Conservatives don't support out of wedlock pregnancies, but if they occur, do not support aborting the innocent child. Neither do conservatives use a person's current situation to beat them over the head with it. Conservatives will try to meet people where they are, and uplift them to higher level. Zeus, if you ever get to read the book "Balcony People", you will have a much better idea of what I am trying to convey.

Elect Steve Dawes !

[Zeus]

Quote from: Zeus
Ah I see calling my conservative credentials into question and my defense of smacks of elitism, arrogance, and pomposity...

Quote from: Zeus
Not exactly a conservative Ideal. Actually more like something one could expect of the liberal ideology...

Do you get to drink twice as much Sacramental Wine having two faces like that?

What's two faced about it ? You said I wasn't a conservative and when I defended myself I was accused of being elitist , arrogant and pompous. The other was an observation and I haven't made any condescending remarks regarding any further posts from MrsSmith. Matter of factly I acknowledged the right to differing opinion in the thread. If you can't see a difference between the two then that's on you not me.

[Zeus]

Conservatives don't support out of wedlock pregnancies, but if they occur, do not support aborting the innocent child. Neither do conservatives use a person's current situation to beat them over the head with it. Conservatives will try to meet people where they are, and uplift them to higher level. Zeus, if you ever get to read the book "Balcony People", you will have a much better idea of what I am trying to convey.

Elect Steve Dawes !

Affirmation comes in many forms,normally in a powerful statement and/or judgement. lot of touchy feelly stories in the book book  but the underlying theme of power of affirmation is hard to miss.

[obumazombie]

Affirmation comes in many forms,normally in a powerful statement and/or judgement. lot of touchy feelly stories in the book book  but the underlying theme of power of affirmation is hard to miss.

So you read the book ?

[Zeus]

So you read the book ?

Not in it's entirety. Skipped around to a few of the the different stories. Did the cliff notes version of a read while undergoing one chemo treatment. Normally wouldn't read something like that but forgot my reading material and a nurse offered it to pass some time.

[obumazombie]

Not in it's entirety. Skipped around to a few of the the different stories. Did the cliff notes version of a read while undergoing one chemo treatment. Normally wouldn't read something like that but forgot my reading material and a nurse offered it to pass some time.

Ah.

[CactusCarlos]

From: http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,72667.msg862386.html#msg862386

I just recently got raked over the coals and called everything imaginable for daring to say out of wedlock single mothers was a bad thing and not necessarily a conservative trait. Calling them sluts will bring out the long knives.

just sayin'

Stay classy, Zeus. 

[Eupher]

Just can't let it go, can ya, Zeus?

The Butthurt still stings, doesn't it?

You really need to stand in the corner and think about your behavior on this thread (and elsewhere).

[obumazombie]

It's hard for a guy to admit he's wrong, even harder when he is currently being beaten over the head about it.

[Zeus]

It's hard for a guy to admit he's wrong, even harder when he is currently being beaten over the head about it.

Wrong about what. Are out of wedlock single mothers  a good or bad thing. Is it more of a liberal Ideological viewpoint or a conservative one. Are opinions a right or wrong thing or are they just that opinions to be agreed with or disagreed.

I did not attack MrsSmith or talk disparagingly about or toward her or anyone else on this board I simply made an opined observation. If she felt I personally attacked or berated her I invited her to post openly or send me a msg in that regard. I wouldn't disclose what she said if she had sent me a msg but I will say as of yet she hasn't.

I don't mind the pile on but I do think all the self congratulatory cutesy lil catch phrases and vulgarity doesn't add anything of value to the discourse.

[obumazombie]

I think you were wrong to say the majority of conservatives would berate a woman who claims to be conservative, but doesn't seem able to enforce her conservatism within her immediate family. I know I certainly wouldn't agree with that. I would hope the vast majority of conservatives would agree with me, and not you on this point.

[txradioguy]

Hi everyone, this is my first post, besides my intro-which I invite you to read before passing judgment on the question at hand.  I am hoping to understand the concept of pro-life and how it relates to those communities, states, or groups of people that unwanted pregnancies occurr the most in.

I will preface my inquiry with the following fact: Many lower income Americans vote democratic because they don't want to lose their government benefits.  There are many other instances I could state where a certain demographic votes a certain way, or has a part affiliation that suits there particular needs. But this is the exact opposite that we are seeing when it comes to the issue of abortion.  One would think that those living in places where unwanted pregnancies are high, would be pro-choice.  But this is in fact the exact opposite of what we are actually seeing.

Teen pregnancies, pregnancies out of wedlock, and other types of unwanted pregnancies are highest in rural, conservative communities, such as the area I lived in in Texas. Not only does data support this, but I have witnessed it first hand.  In New York, I cannot think of one single person I know who had a child at a young age, or at an age that would be considered too young. And naturally in New York, 75% of the population is pro-choice.  Yet, in the rural area of Texas I lived in, I knew many, many people who were in their teens and had kids or multiple kids. In fact, most of the young people I knew had kids or had been pregnant.  This is just the fact of the matter and I'm not saying something is right or wrong.  

This leads me to two questions:
Why are the conservative rural areas of the country where there are high numbers of unwanted pregnancies generally pro-life?
And secondly, why do those in the liberal northeast receive more childhood education about how to avoid these circumstances, and in rural areas we see less effort to prevent unwanted pregnancies? And I just thought of a third question.  If in fact most unwated pregnancies are occurring to conservative communities, why do they want to get rid of planned parenthood which deals vastly with young kids and their pregnancies? Input appreciated!

Can you link to anything that backs up your Libtard talking points crap?

[txradioguy]

I don't think you read my introduction post. I am neither liberal nor conservative. I believe in some of the policies and values of the right, and some on the left, and many in the middle.

Sure.  uh-huh.   

The very nature of your first post in this thread clearly shows your thinking and the political tilt of the same.

And no, my attitude is not "no one under 20 could want a child" but my attitude CERTAINLY is that MOST people who become pregnant under age 20 would consider the pregnancy unwanted, unplanned, or "uh oh".

Show me one person who isn't surprised by becoming pregnant and I'll show you a liar.

This is not meant to be a question on the ethics in abortion or choice vs life. This is about trying to understand the question I posed.

It IS about ethics.  Something tells me you're tied into the DUmp thread about abortion being an ethical choice.

The statement  "well liberals have the same amount of unwanted pregnancies-they just abort them" is incorrect.  It is factually proven in studies that conservative areas of the country have a MUCH MUCH higher rate of unwanted pregnancies than liberal areas.  What happens AFTER the pregnancy is irrelevant to that discussion and if you think its not than you are misinterpreting the question I initially posed.

Link?

[Zeus]

I think you were wrong to say the majority of conservatives would berate a woman who claims to be conservative, but doesn't seem able to enforce her conservatism within her immediate family. I know I certainly wouldn't agree with that. I would hope the vast majority of conservatives would agree with me, and not you on this point.

Where did I say that ? Y'all can claim I attacked MrsSmith all you want,it doesn't make it so. should be a simple thing to show.

I know I did say something to the effect that most conservatives would agree out of wedlock single mother situations are not a good thing.

[txradioguy]

Yep, you own it. The suck, that is.

Nobody called your "conservative credentials" -- whatever the hell THOSE are -- into question. Whether you are a conservative or a liberal or something in between is something between you and your principles -- whatever the hell THOSE are.

When you get right down to it, nobody gives a shit whether you're a "conservative" or not.

So why do you and many other faux conservatives who come wading into this site (I say "faux" because, as we all know, only those who are truly uncertain about their own principles find it necessary to bray left and right that they're "conservative) find it necessary to do that, apart from my own observation?

Let's not stray too far from the point -- nobody "endorsed" having children out of wedlock. Mrs Smith has children who have done so for reasons that are their own. My own children, ditto. I shall not burden you with their rationale because it's unimportant.

As has been said already quite eloquently, what is, is. Nothing you say is going to change any of that and pompously braying about your own opinions merely isolates you from those who embrace those children irrespective of the facts that brought them into this life.

Bitchslapped for continuing to be an asshole. Stubbornly continuing to be an asshole. Steadfastly continuing to be an asshole.

QFT ^5

[txradioguy]

I know I did say something to the effect that most conservatives would agree out of wedlock single mother situations are not a good thing.

Out of wedlock kids isn't a conservative or liberal "thing".  It's bad regardless.  But sometimes the situation doesn't allow the two people to get together.

The TexMex troll is trying to say there's some kind of hypocrisy in "rural" i.e. "Conservative states" about out of wedlock births.  That's what the focus should be here.

And to counter the trolls argument I'd point out that perhaps the rates are higher in rural areas because they don't believe in murdering the unborn like the Libtards do.

[obumazombie]

Where did I say that ? Y'all can claim I attacked MrsSmith all you want,it doesn't make it so. should be a simple thing to show.

I know I did say something to the effect that most conservatives would agree out of wedlock single mother situations are not a good thing.

The first quote, you berated her...
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,72513.msg860854.html#msg860854
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,72513.msg861586.html#msg861586
The second, you allowed that most conservatives would agree with you, with a slightly amended stance from the first post.
My stance, yes, out of wedlock is not a conservative ideal, but to use someone's less than ideal situation os a cudgel to beat them over the head with, no, I wouldn't agree with that. It's not good people skills. In the end, building people up should be the goal, not beating them up for their shortcomings.

[CactusCarlos]

I don't mind the pile on

and now you're a liar too.

I just recently got raked over the coals and called everything imaginable for daring to say out of wedlock single mothers was a bad thing and not necessarily a conservative trait. Calling them sluts will bring out the long knives.

just sayin'

But please, keep whining about it.  It's entertaining.

[CactusCarlos]

The first quote, you berated her...
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,72513.msg860854.html#msg860854
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,72513.msg861586.html#msg861586
The second, you allowed that most conservatives would agree with you, with a slightly amended stance from the first post.
My stance, yes, out of wedlock is not a conservative ideal, but to use someone's less than ideal situation os a cudgel to beat them over the head with, no, I wouldn't agree with that. It's not good people skills. In the end, building people up should be the goal, not beating them up for their shortcomings.

H5 because you mean well but you're wasting your time.  Zeus doesn't want to be convinced of anything, it's about him being the victim here. 

[Zeus]

H5 because you mean well but you're wasting your time.  Zeus doesn't want to be convinced of anything, it's about him being the victim here. 

Oh I'm not a victim. If one needs to lie, curse and obfuscate the issue then that person is their own victim.

Has anyone bothered to ask MrsSmith if she felt affronted or insulted or whatever or all you so busy chest thumping and circle jerking it doesn't really matter what she thinks.

just sayin'

[Eupher]

Oh I'm not a victim. If one needs to lie, curse and obfuscate the issue then that person is their own victim.

Has anyone bothered to ask MrsSmith if she felt affronted or insulted or whatever or all you so busy chest thumping and circle jerking it doesn't really matter what she thinks.

just sayin'

Mrs Smith is a classy lady who responded to your having berated her, and did so quite well all by herself. She doesn't NEED to be asked if she felt affronted by you or anybody else, for that matter.

You simply can't take your asswhipping and leave it well enough alone. You've got to continue looking like an idiot.

Well, like CactusCarlos said, it is entertaining.