Author Topic: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...  (Read 4670 times)

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Offline TexMex

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Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« on: May 02, 2012, 12:27:03 AM »
Hi everyone, this is my first post, besides my intro-which I invite you to read before passing judgment on the question at hand.  I am hoping to understand the concept of pro-life and how it relates to those communities, states, or groups of people that unwanted pregnancies occurr the most in.

I will preface my inquiry with the following fact: Many lower income Americans vote democratic because they don't want to lose their government benefits.  There are many other instances I could state where a certain demographic votes a certain way, or has a part affiliation that suits there particular needs. But this is the exact opposite that we are seeing when it comes to the issue of abortion.  One would think that those living in places where unwanted pregnancies are high, would be pro-choice.  But this is in fact the exact opposite of what we are actually seeing.

Teen pregnancies, pregnancies out of wedlock, and other types of unwanted pregnancies are highest in rural, conservative communities, such as the area I lived in in Texas. Not only does data support this, but I have witnessed it first hand.  In New York, I cannot think of one single person I know who had a child at a young age, or at an age that would be considered too young. And naturally in New York, 75% of the population is pro-choice.  Yet, in the rural area of Texas I lived in, I knew many, many people who were in their teens and had kids or multiple kids. In fact, most of the young people I knew had kids or had been pregnant.  This is just the fact of the matter and I'm not saying something is right or wrong.  

This leads me to two questions:
Why are the conservative rural areas of the country where there are high numbers of unwanted pregnancies generally pro-life?
And secondly, why do those in the liberal northeast receive more childhood education about how to avoid these circumstances, and in rural areas we see less effort to prevent unwanted pregnancies? And I just thought of a third question.  If in fact most unwated pregnancies are occurring to conservative communities, why do they want to get rid of planned parenthood which deals vastly with young kids and their pregnancies? Input appreciated!

Offline Porfiry

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 01:33:15 AM »
#1.  You are observing births.

The unwanted pregnancies in the rural, conservative areas are aborted far less often than in the urban, liberal areas.  Thus you see far more teenage "moms."  The "moms' in the liberal northeast abort most of their offspring, so they look like they've been using their contraception.  They haven't been.

#2.  There is more pro-contraception and more pro-abortion education in the liberal northeast than in the conservative areas.  The result is, more pregnancies are carried to term where the abortion crowd is not doing so much "educating."

#3.  Rural, conservative communities don't want Planned Parenthood operating within them because they promote sexual activity, perverted forms of sexual activity, and abortion.

For example (so many statistics are available, but, just for your info),  In 1996 the abortion rate in New York was 37 per 1000 women; in California, 39 per 1000 women.

Contrast this to 4 per 1000 women in Idaho, or 2 per 1000 women in Wyoming.

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Offline catsmtrods

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 03:16:12 AM »
WTF is so hard to understand? Its not a choice its a LIFE! People that were brought up right understand that and take responsibility for their actions no matter how it may inconvenience them.
"Liberalism is an essentially feminine, submissive world view. Perhaps a better adjective than feminine is infantile. It is the world view of men who do not have the moral toughness, the spiritual strength to stand up and do single combat with life, who cannot adjust to the reality that the world is not a huge, pink-and-blue, padded nursery in which the lions lie down with the lambs and everyone lives happily ever after."


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Offline Splashdown

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 04:40:51 AM »
WTF is so hard to understand? Its not a choice its a LIFE! People that were brought up right understand that and take responsibility for their actions no matter how it may inconvenience them.

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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 05:14:12 AM »
First point, not all teen and/or out-of-wedlock pregnancies are unwanted.  Your basic premise is flawed.  

Second point, the majority of people in rural, conservative areas are smart enough to know that a pregnant woman is carrying a child, not a "blob."  It doesn't matter what stage of pregnancy; the embryo is human, the fetus is human, there is no stage of pregnancy in which the mother is carrying a dog or a monkey or a tumor, so far more women prefer to carry their child, not murder him or her.  In fact, a lot of us have trouble understanding why "compassionate, tolerant, loving" Democrats tend to murder so many children.   :???:  Maybe they just aren't smart enough to understand what a child is until they can actually see with their own eyes?

Third point, many people are smart enough to understand that an unwanted pregnancy does not equal an unwanted child.  Conversely, a wanted pregnancy does not always equal a wanted child, as we see from the continuing increase in child abuse statistics.  There is no amount of abortion that will cause every child to be wanted.

Fourth point, Planned Parenthood does one thing well... killing children.  Well, actually, they do other things well, like absorbing government money and using political clout to keep increasing their revenue, but as far as HEALTH is concerned, their one "claim to fame" is the murder of children.  Conversely, Crisis Pregnancy Centers can help pregnant women with free pregnancy tests that are official and can be used for government assistance programs.  Many can provide ultrasounds.  Almost all can provide many other basic necessities like maternity clothing, baby clothes and blankets, diapers, formula, and will request donations for specific needs like cribs, car seats, preemie clothes, etc.  Why would we want a useless child-murdering money-dump instead of a pregnancy center?

Final point, it looks to me as though you are a "typical liberal."  You have so absorbed the leftist excuse for logic that you have trouble understanding any other viewpoint.  Your attitude seems to be that no one could possibly want a child if they happen to be under 20, or if they became pregnant unexpectedly, or if they don't happen to have enough money to "afford" a child right now.  This is simply a false premise entirely.


From a personal perspective, I had my first child at 19.  I was unmarried when he was conceived.  I never wished I had murdered him, and am immensely proud of that child.  He served in the military, is currently a civilian employee of the Navy, and has a beautiful daughter.

Two of my daughters have had children at 19, also.  Neither are married.  None of their children are unwanted.  One has 2 sons, now 10 and 8, and is raising them as a single mom...and doing a good job of it.  The other has a 3 year old daughter and is currently pregnant with her second.  She can't afford to live on her own anymore, so recently moved back home (an option we prefer over having her on welfare.) We'll help with her expenses until she gets on her feet; or until her boyfriend mans-up, marries her, and starts supporting his family.

My niece recently had to deal with an unwanted pregnancy.  Her mother demanded that she abort for many reasons, including the fact that the mother "didn't want to be a grandmother already."  (Need we say that the mother is a liberal??  ::) )  My brother was willing to help her if she kept the baby, so she finally came to visit with me and my daughters.  She was close to believing that her mom was right, she was just too young and irresponsible to have a child, but she changed her mind after spending some time with my younger daughter and her baby.  She chose to keep her child, Thank God, and is a wonderful, loving mother to that little girl now.  Having her baby had "the normal effect" on her, she became far more responsible and was able to get a decent job managing a motel. She is currently pregnant with her second, and planning her wedding to the father of her kids.  

Maybe it's because liberals so often just don't grow up and become responsible adults...but they often seem to be completely self absorbed.  Just as the woman mentioned above, she wanted her granddaughter killed mostly because she thought she was too young to be a grandmother, (vain, vain, vain), but also because she just can't understand that most people, when faced with the reality of life, do manage to grow up!   It's a good thing that most people grow into conservatives!  The world would be a truly sorry place if liberals were anywhere near a majority.

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Offline Eupher

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 08:35:07 AM »
 :yeahthat:

Excellent post, Mrs. Smith. h5

I'll add my own 0.02 zlotys.

My niece has two children from the same young man. They are not married, but do live together. He works and goes to school and she works as a police dispatcher.

Not too many years ago, I remember my niece being absolutely moronic. Her judgment was flawed and she made wrong choices in many different areas.

But while she didn't necessarily want to get pregnant, she kept both children rather than abort or give them up for adoption and has grown into a much more rational, considerate, and thoughtful young woman. I'm very proud of her for her development.
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Offline Kyle Ricky

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 09:08:43 AM »
Life begins at conception. A child is a gift from God. Not a mistake, or a blop of nothing. Not one time in the bible is the word fetus used. It stems from when Marry was pregnant with Jesus. I feel a child is a miracle and should be treated as such.

Psalm 127:3 "Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward"

Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not kill"

"Did not He who made me in the womb make him, And the same one fashion us in the womb?"-- Job 31:15

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." -- Jeremiah 1:5:

Read this: http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/abortion.html

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Offline Chris_

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 09:47:52 AM »
Quote
Teen pregnancies, pregnancies out of wedlock, and other types of unwanted pregnancies are highest in rural, conservative communities, such as the area I lived in in Texas. Not only does data support this
Is there municipal- or county-level data that can be cross-referenced with voting patterns to determine red-ness or blue-ness, or are you treating the entire state as a single entity?  Are you using per-capita figures or raw numbers to diferentiate between population-dense urban areas that reliably vote (D) from sparsely-populated areas that may vote (R)? 

Also, the same people getting abortions may not even be inclined to vote.  Have you compared the demographics of women who get abortions to similar age and income groups that turn out to vote (R) regularly?  "Unwanted pregnancies" is a pretty broad term.  Do you have some way to separate them from "wanted" pregnancies?

I'll be waiting to see that data you mentioned.
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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 10:03:09 AM »
If you didn't see a lot of teen pregnancy in the city you weren't looking.
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Offline WinOne4TheGipper

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 10:08:52 AM »
Hi 5, Mrs. Smith.  And how many times do women make the "choice" because of undue influence from their parents or the father of the child?
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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 12:07:05 PM »
Quote
In New York, I cannot think of one single person I know who had a child at a young age, or at an age that would be considered too young. And naturally in New York, 75% of the population is pro-choice.

I guess I can safely assume that you never made it to Harlem........

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2012, 08:13:46 PM »
Since you claim to be a poli sci major, why don't you go to these rural areas and do a survey and find out for yourself instead of soliciting opinions?
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Offline TexMex

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2012, 05:17:48 AM »


Final point, it looks to me as though you are a "typical liberal."  You have so absorbed the leftist excuse for logic that you have trouble understanding any other viewpoint.  Your attitude seems to be that no one could possibly want a child if they happen to be under 20, or if they became pregnant unexpectedly, or if they don't happen to have enough money to "afford" a child right now.  This is simply a false premise entirely.



I don't think you read my introduction post. I am neither liberal nor conservative. I believe in some of the policies and values of the right, and some on the left, and many in the middle.

And no, my attitude is not "no one under 20 could want a child" but my attitude CERTAINLY is that MOST people who become pregnant under age 20 would consider the pregnancy unwanted, unplanned, or "uh oh".

This is not meant to be a question on the ethics in abortion or choice vs life. This is about trying to understand the question I posed.

The statement  "well liberals have the same amount of unwanted pregnancies-they just abort them" is incorrect.  It is factually proven in studies that conservative areas of the country have a MUCH MUCH higher rate of unwanted pregnancies than liberal areas.  What happens AFTER the pregnancy is irrelevant to that discussion and if you think its not than you are misinterpreting the question I initially posed.

Offline TexMex

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2012, 05:19:00 AM »
I guess I can safely assume that you never made it to Harlem........

doc

To be fair, Harlem doesn't even compare to Trenton, TX in the context of this discussion.

Offline NHSparky

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2012, 05:35:23 AM »
To be fair, Harlem doesn't even compare to Trenton, TX in the context of this discussion.

Yet you still made the comparison.  Curious, that.
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Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2012, 05:55:17 AM »
Kids have sex. Kids get pregnant. Kids have kids. Kids don't get married because then the government takes care of mom and baby...it's profitable and baby daddy can buy the dope with his income instead of keeping up a family.

Men aren't men and women aren't women anymore....they're democrat voters.
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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2012, 07:42:39 AM »
The abortion issue is always cast, by the media, as you're either for it or against it.  I myself fall in between these.  While some may call me pro life others would call me pro choice.

I do not think abortion should be available wily nily and it should never be taken lightly but I feel there are instances where abortion is warranted.

I'm a Conservative.  So your premise is wrong.

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2012, 10:26:13 AM »
To be fair, Harlem doesn't even compare to Trenton, TX in the context of this discussion.

As Sparky stated, you made the comparison, and while we're throwing numbers around, I'd hazard a guess that there are more unwed teenage pregnancies in Harlem, Bed-Sty, and throw in Newark, than there are in the entire state of Texas.......

It's a liberal welfare state problem......support an activity with handouts, and you're guaranteed to get more and more of it.......cut the incentive off, and the problem will largely go away.....

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2012, 11:21:23 AM »
To be fair, Harlem doesn't even compare to Trenton, TX in the context of this discussion.
So, you're neither liberal, nor conservative ? How stupid do you think your audience is ?
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2012, 12:05:44 PM »
I guess I have to go against the grain and not h^5 MrsSmiths post. Primarily because of the rash of out of wedlock pregnancy's and single mother households in her family. Not exactly a conservative Ideal. Actually more like something one could expect of the liberal ideology. Nothing personal against MrsSmith just pointing out the disparity.

No one should be congratulated for not killing a pregnancy but on the same token pregnancies don't just happen. They may be unplanned for but this day & age an accidental pregnancy doesn't exist or in the least are infinitely rare.
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Offline Ballygrl

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2012, 12:49:21 PM »
From the introductions thread:

Why is it that lower income conservatives are in fact even conservatives at all given the arguable fact that democratic leadership is probably more suitable to their specific finanical needs?

Maybe because they prefer taking care of themselves? maybe because they're smart enough to realize that the Democrats promoting of social welfare programs aren't done because Democrats care, but are done for nefarious purposes such as making people more dependent on Government and making sure those dependent will continue to vote for the party, which in effect, wants to keep them down?

Which party is actually the party of compassion?

Compassion such as charity? it's Republicans, compassion such as 5 generations of welfare families and the destruction of the black family? it's Democrats then.

Why is it that the party that is pro-life, is also the party that has the most unwanted pregnancies? (meaning the most unwanted pregnancies occurr in Red states and generally to conservative communities)

Red States, but the major cities where poverty is more rampant is Blue areas within those Red States.

Why is it that there are no overlapping issues between republicans and democrats?

Because I don't like the way the Democrats want America to be.

Also, as a poli sci major, I have done numerous studies on taxation and income that I would like to share for a conservative analysis.  I thank you ahead of time for letting me get to know you all!

Share? or preach because you arrogantly think we're easily swayed?
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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2012, 12:57:09 PM »
 

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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2012, 09:43:48 PM »
I guess I have to go against the grain and not h^5 MrsSmiths post. Primarily because of the rash of out of wedlock pregnancy's and single mother households in her family. Not exactly a conservative Ideal. Actually more like something one could expect of the liberal ideology. Nothing personal against MrsSmith just pointing out the disparity.

No one should be congratulated for not killing a pregnancy but on the same token pregnancies don't just happen. They may be unplanned for but this day & age an accidental pregnancy doesn't exist or in the least are infinitely rare.
Most of our younger generation is fiscally conservative and socially liberal.  None are committed Christians.  On a different subject, they are a large part of my reason for doubting that the statement, "Christians divorce as often as non-Christians" explains the whole story.  Non-Christians just don't marry, therefore don't add to the statistics. 

However, in point of fact, only 1 of the non-married mothers is in a single-mother household.  Both my younger daughter and my niece live with their "baby-daddies."  And for all 3 in question, baby #1 was unplanned, baby #2 was planned.
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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2012, 09:51:50 PM »
I guess I have to go against the grain and not h^5 MrsSmiths post. Primarily because of the rash of out of wedlock pregnancy's and single mother households in her family. Not exactly a conservative Ideal. Actually more like something one could expect of the liberal ideology. Nothing personal against MrsSmith just pointing out the disparity.

No one should be congratulated for not killing a pregnancy but on the same token pregnancies don't just happen. They may be unplanned for but this day & age an accidental pregnancy doesn't exist or in the least are infinitely rare.

No problem, I H5'd her.

Go **** yourself.  I had a child out of wedlock, gave her up for adoption, and am blessed to know her and the parents that adopted her and my granddaughter almost 30 years later.  

When we're all as perfect as you, we'll come to you for endorsement.  Unless you're Jesus, again, go **** yourself.

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Offline MrsSmith

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Re: Pro-Life and Conservatism: A question to be answered...
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2012, 09:53:24 PM »
I don't think you read my introduction post. I am neither liberal nor conservative. I believe in some of the policies and values of the right, and some on the left, and many in the middle.

And no, my attitude is not "no one under 20 could want a child" but my attitude CERTAINLY is that MOST people who become pregnant under age 20 would consider the pregnancy unwanted, unplanned, or "uh oh".

This is not meant to be a question on the ethics in abortion or choice vs life. This is about trying to understand the question I posed.

The statement  "well liberals have the same amount of unwanted pregnancies-they just abort them" is incorrect.  It is factually proven in studies that conservative areas of the country have a MUCH MUCH higher rate of unwanted pregnancies than liberal areas.  What happens AFTER the pregnancy is irrelevant to that discussion and if you think its not than you are misinterpreting the question I initially posed.
No, what is counted is "unplanned" pregnancies, teen pregnancies and out-of-wedlock pregnancies.  That number does NOT equate to unwanted pregnancies, and most certainly does NOT equate to unwanted children.  Your "attitude" or assumptions are basically incorrect.  As I just explained, in my own family, all 3 women made choices to have a second child out of wedlock.

And your question absolutely hinges on the ethics of abortion.  The more liberal an area, the higher the abortion rates.  Therefore, the actual numbers of unwanted pregnancies do happen at about the same rate in liberal areas, but liberals tend to abort their unwanted children while in more conservative areas many of those pregnancies are actually NOT unwanted or unplanned. All of your foundational assumptions are flawed.

You may deny being a liberal, but you've absorbed enough of their attitudes, assumptions, and thinking patterns to sound very liberal.  (that is not a compliment, BTW.)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 09:55:38 PM by MrsSmith »
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