Author Topic: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace  (Read 14676 times)

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Offline rich_t

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #125 on: August 01, 2010, 04:21:08 PM »
I think you can thank the insurance industry for the mandatory seatbelt laws.
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Offline RightCoast

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #126 on: August 01, 2010, 04:55:10 PM »
For the record, the state and local municipalities also regulate when a bar or restaurant can be open, what type of food they can serve, how much alcohol they can serve per patron, parking of vehicles on their property..... the list is rather extensive.   

It's the ban on smoking though that is the violation of personal freedoms......  first they come for happy hour, then they come for number of spaces I have to have in my parking lot,  then they come for the fire exits and sprinkler systems, and can you believe they check the temp of the food I serve?   

Whatever.  :whatever:

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Offline rich_t

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #127 on: August 01, 2010, 05:16:11 PM »
Quote
At the root of it, an anti-smoking nazi is fundamentally still a nazi.........and when the smokers are ultimately "dealt with", they will turn their fascism to the next issue that "offends them"......and for those readers whose glance in life's mirror find themselves "offended" by my reference, my simple response is.....tough shit!

Exactly.  In fact it is already going on to a certain extent.  Banning restaurants from using trans-fats, banning the use of salt during the food preparation.  Banning sweets and chips (or anything else that the nanny staters decide to label as "junk" food) at school even if the child brings his own lunch etc.  The list is potentially endless.
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Offline Texacon

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #128 on: August 01, 2010, 05:18:22 PM »
I think you can thank the insurance industry for the mandatory seatbelt laws.

Nail meet Head.

That is the WHOLE problem.  Insurance companies and attorneys are running our world now.  Ever ask anyone if you can hunt on their land, swim in their pond, ride a dirt back in their field?

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Offline rich_t

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #129 on: August 01, 2010, 05:20:36 PM »
Nail meet Head.

That is the WHOLE problem.  Insurance companies and attorneys are running our world now.  Ever ask anyone if you can hunt on their land, swim in their pond, ride a dirt back in their field?

KC

Not anymore.  We used to do it all the time when I was a kid though.  But then again our parents wouldn't have sued the land owner if we slipped and broke an arm while playing in his pond either.
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #130 on: August 01, 2010, 06:56:59 PM »
The original intent of the "law" is to regulate criminal behavior........not legal behavior.......further, if the intent of a law is to protect "public safety", then the test should be, does it equally effect ALL of the public, and not a small segment thereof.

I'd say the effort is to make an otherwise legal practice illegal under certain conditions. That's no different than any other government regulation that attempts to regulate behavior. Banks can do business and make money, but certain banking practices are not legal.

You're saying that you have a problem with regulating any legal behavior, save those that directly impact public safety? Are there any other exceptions to that general rule?

I think you see where I'm going with this. We want to pick and choose the regulation that suits our own set of "what's right and proper." You even put names on those who would restrict cigarette smoking in public areas - "anti-smoking nazis" -as a way to show your disdain and contempt for such people.

Fair enough - I understand your point, and while I disagree with it, I'll do so without using terms like "anarchist" and other terms along those lines.

Regarding jacking up the cigarette tax, I think that's a subject that we can absolutely agree on. I think it's folly all the way around to tax a behavior - and smoking and drinking are behaviors, more than anything else. If a person wants to smoke, the price be damned. He or she will do just that. Same with drinking.

Mrs E and I moved to Missouri in 2007, so I haven't seen any of those referenda you're talking about. I'd vote it down too and will do so if I see it surface.

By the same token, I have a problem with taking state lottery money and allocating some of it towards "education" and have those who would profit by state-sanctioned gambling tout the "education" angle as justification for opening up yet another casino. It's patently dishonest and sends the wrong message -- it's perfectly fine to gamble, even to excess, as long as some of the proceeds go to some kind of worthy cause.

Nope, I have no interest in campaigning to make tobacco use illegal. Not my job. And I've already publicly said that I have on many occasions "voted with my feet" when a business owner allows smoking inside an entire restaurant. I just can't hack that, no pun intended. I've walked out of more than one place that way. My not being there doesn't impact the business owner, that's for sure, but if other people react the same way I do, the point may get across to that business owner that ignoring the non-smoking clientele will ultimately mean fewer dollars for the business.

Here's the crux of the matter:

Quote
Therefore to answer your "yes or no" question, I can state emphatically no......I don't favor any law that regulates an otherwise legal behavior, unless it is a direct public safety issue, a good example being speed limits on municipal streets.......however, for a reasonable citizen (such as myself) I rarely have to even pay attention to them, as I govern my driving by the environment that I'm in....using common sense.

The world is full of people who think of themselves as being "reasonable citizens" and who use "common sense" when their behavior clearly illustrates something other than that. I hate to say it, but many laws are put on the books to address and regulate what "common sense" should be. "Common sense" simply isn't that common.

The glut of laws and regulations are enacted to deal with many of these specific issues -- often to absurdity. That's witnessed by some archaic law, for example, that says it's illegal to have a antenna exposed outside of your house yet you can have a 25′ satellite dish, in Columbia MO. I'd wager that the putz who put that law on the books was just as passionate about exposed antennae in Columbia as some are about allowing smoking just anywhere, under any condition. BTW, smoking is outlawed in public places in Columbia. The moonbats love it.  :rotf:

No doubt you and others think of anti-smoking laws as being ridiculous and absurd, just like the stupid antenna law in Columbia. But a law is a law is a law....

Quote
At the root of it, an anti-smoking nazi is fundamentally still a nazi.........and when the smokers are ultimately "dealt with", they will turn their fascism to the next issue that "offends them"......and for those readers whose glance in life's mirror find themselves "offended" by my reference, my simple response is.....tough shit!

Very revealing statement there, doc -- beneath you, I'd say.  You normally find a much kinder way to tell people to pound sand!  :lmao:
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Offline Thor

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #131 on: August 01, 2010, 08:42:14 PM »
Thor, I agree with you only to the extent that it is hypocritical.  I think seat belts and helmets do save lives in most, not all, cases.  I do NOT think that if a state has a seat belt law then they MUST have a helmet law.  That is backward thinking.  I think the seat belt laws should be repealed.


Well, the ideal thing, IMO, would be to repeal the state seat belt laws for those states that don't require motorcyclists to wear helmets.

rich: I'm fully aware from where the seat belt laws originated. IMO, it sucks that a corporation can force an entire country to make laws only to benefit them.

What was it that Franklin said, those that would give up essential liberties for a little safety deserve neither??  That's how I see it.
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Offline formerlurker

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #132 on: August 02, 2010, 05:00:14 AM »
rich: I'm fully aware from where the seat belt laws originated. IMO, it sucks that a corporation can force an entire country to make laws only to benefit them.

Being a former casualty adjuster, I can assure you that wearing a helmet benefits the operator and passenger of a motorcycle far more than it does an insurance carrier.   

Operating a motor vehicle on a public way is not a right by the way, it is a privilege.   

Offline formerlurker

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #133 on: August 02, 2010, 05:04:38 AM »
Actually my thoughts on motorcycles and helmets are if you want insurance coverage, then you have to wear a helmet.   No helmet?  claim denied.   

Ditto for seat belts. 

Offline vesta111

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #134 on: August 02, 2010, 08:12:39 AM »
Actually my thoughts on motorcycles and helmets are if you want insurance coverage, then you have to wear a helmet.   No helmet?  claim denied.   

Ditto for seat belts. 

New ideas for people to consider.

DOT approved helmets for anyone riding a horse, donkey or mule.

Helmets for anyone riding in a Vachel with an absent top, convertables jeeps etc.

All pleasure boating passengers to wear life vests at all times.  This to include row boats, charter boats,  anything essentially if it float in water. Cruise to the islands for 6 days wearing one over the Dress Night at the Captains table.

No one visiting and camping out in any wooded area allowed even in National Parks can do so with out having a good supply of Bear Pepper Spray and a small air horn to alert others to a danger.    All hunters and hikers must all so carry these things.

No handicapped person or senior allowed out after dark without an escort to aid them with any problem, be it a fall, slip, a mugging or keeping them out of the bars.

If anyone in the above list insist on being out after dark then something happens to them, they have to carry half the fault for putting themselves in that position.

A health form must be filled out before anyone is allowed to fly private or commercial as to ----no one allowed to fly that is more then 71/2 months pregnant, has had dental work or surgery within the last 4 weeks.

Remove the tax exempt status only on Christian Churches.

Up the penalty's on crimes committed against anyone from a different faith, race, or age difference.

Make verbal utterances a crime, use the N word, go to jail.  OK to say Cracker and Honkey, Wop, Mick, Greaser, Chink, Kraut, Frog, Limey and Dumb Pollock is permissible.      Have I left any one out.?    Big time jail time to speak against Rag Heads or Mohammad.

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Offline Eupher

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Re: Wisconsin: Smoking is now banned in Bars, Taverns, and The Workplace
« Reply #135 on: August 02, 2010, 10:56:19 AM »

No handicapped person or senior allowed out after dark without an escort to aid them with any problem, be it a fall, slip, a mugging or keeping them out of the bars.


Okay, vesta, I'll ask the question that everybody's dying to ask:

Did somebody let you out after dark last night? Were you mugged by any chance? Were you kept out of bars okay, or did somebody drop the ball?

Just sayin'....... :rotf:
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