Author Topic: Militant Atheism Picks On...  (Read 12517 times)

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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2010, 04:17:31 PM »
Any law which allows the placement of a religious display on religious grounds is by definition a law respecting an establishment of religion.

Really?  Care to explain that one?

How exactly is a Christmas tree...a nativity scene or a Menorah establishing a religion?

What is the name of this suddenly established religion that magically appears at the sight of the Ten Commandments in a court room?
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Offline Carl

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2010, 04:33:32 PM »
Really?  Care to explain that one?

How exactly is a Christmas tree...a nativity scene or a Menorah establishing a religion?

What is the name of this suddenly established religion that magically appears at the sight of the Ten Commandments in a court room?

TNO left the thread when the actual Constitution was presented and his statement was shown to be completely ludicrous.

Gotta give him a little credit for constantly coming back for more smackdowns though.

Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2010, 05:28:30 PM »
Really?  Care to explain that one?

How exactly is a Christmas tree...a nativity scene or a Menorah establishing a religion?

What is the name of this suddenly established religion that magically appears at the sight of the Ten Commandments in a court room?

Religions-- Judaism and Christianity. The US government is secular, not Judeo-Christian.

I don't have a problem with Christmas trees on publicly owned property because they're generally recognized as secular symbols.
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Offline The Night Owl

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2010, 05:32:04 PM »
It can also be argued that the relegating all religious displays to confined enclaves (ghettos?) defined exclusively by the state portrays a hostility of the state towards religion, abrogates free expression and promotes secularism.

Well, if we're talking about religious and non-religious displays being placed in say a boiler room then you have a point. I think that as long as the government makes a good faith effort (no pun intended) to find room for all religious displays then I don't see a problem.
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Offline SSG Snuggle Bunny

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2010, 07:55:34 PM »
Religions-- Judaism and Christianity. The US government is secular, not Judeo-Christian.

I don't have a problem with Christmas trees on publicly owned property because they're generally recognized as secular symbols.

Any reading of the founders shows their thoughts to be heavily instructed by religion and while they had no desire to created "Church of America" its stretches the imagination to say they could declare, "religion for me but not for thee."

They never would have founded the notion of freedom on a godless doctrine (or else they would have gotten a nation of bunnies).

This nation's history is drowning in religious philosophy. I'll wager the christians can dredge up for more citations in favor of religion guiding the nation from the founders than you can find exhortations to secularism.
According to the Bible, "know" means "yes."

Offline Eupher

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2010, 08:56:38 PM »

I don't have a problem with Christmas trees on publicly owned property because they're generally recognized as secular symbols.

MSB didn't respond directly to this tripe, so I will.

Let me see, now. Christmas trees. Symbol of Christmas. A holiday that denotes the Christ child's birth.

Wanna explain just how Christmas trees are "generally recognized as secular symbols"?

Something tells me your eyes are brown. They've simply gotta be brown. For reasons which should be obvious.
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Offline AbsolutNickUSN

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2010, 10:47:57 PM »
It gives the freedom to participate or not as you choose. It does not give you the right to use government power to confine others' practice to the venues and content of your capricious, changeable choosing.



No argument from this corner.
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Offline AbsolutNickUSN

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2010, 04:17:52 AM »
MSB didn't respond directly to this tripe, so I will.

Let me see, now. Christmas trees. Symbol of Christmas. A holiday that denotes the Christ child's birth.

Wanna explain just how Christmas trees are "generally recognized as secular symbols"?

Something tells me your eyes are brown. They've simply gotta be brown. For reasons which should be obvious.



Hey Euph !!  S'good ta see ya again !!


I can answer this for ya, if ya don mind.  They (Christmas trees) are mistakenly regarded as secular as they are a holiday tradition with loose ties to actual Christian ritual and religious tradition.  Actually though they are a pagan hold over, as I'm sure you already know but just to reiterate for all concerned, so they really aren't "secular."
"As Mankind becomes more Liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and Liberality."     -George Washington

Offline vesta111

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2010, 07:44:12 AM »


Hey Euph !!  S'good ta see ya again !!


I can answer this for ya, if ya don mind.  They (Christmas trees) are mistakenly regarded as secular as they are a holiday tradition with loose ties to actual Christian ritual and religious tradition.  Actually though they are a pagan hold over, as I'm sure you already know but just to reiterate for all concerned, so they really aren't "secular."

Prohibition allowed wine to be bought for Catholic Communion. No one of any other faith was allowed to taste the forbidden fruit.

The religious practices regarding Peyote and Pot are illegal for the American Indian. 6 or so thousands years of a belief and practice down the drain..

Mormon tradition allows marriage to a girl at the age of 13. Illegal

Circumcision of male infants is allowed.   Jewish and Christians do it.

Circumcision of girl baby's is Illegal. Muslim.do it.

The nuance of a Muslim Temple with loud speakers blasting out 5 times a day for their call to prayer is legal.

Christian church bells rung just once a week for call to prayer are in some towns considered a nuisance.

Getting a photo ID for a woman wearing a face mask is difficult. Muslim folk are pushing for the right.

Taking your children at age 10-17 to a  so called religious nudest colony is legal, allowing them to run about naked in their back yard is illegal.  Taking pictures of these kids at a  so called religious nudist colony is legal, taking pictures of these kids taking a bath at home is illegal.

Public schools that use corporal punishment to the kids, is illegal, religious schooling can beat the tar out of the kids.

Now we come to the goodie, Doctors and Nurses at a religious run hospital can legally refuse to do abortions.   All other hospitals must give this service on demand. Who was the idiot who said people of the Catholic faith need to work in another job besides health care if they had to refuse to do as told for issues of faith.?   Or YAH, that crazy woman that has no morality herself.   Someone had no problem doing a lobotomy on the Kennedy daughter.

If anyone thinks that religion, yours, mine and the people next door has no say in our laws are deluding yourself, it comes creeping in the back door.

Parents of some Christian Demonation that believes in prayer to solve medical problems have been known to themselves to go to a doctor but when their children become ill, they with hold medication and or surgery from them as the child slowly dies.  Dastardly actions and the parents get a slap on the wrist. Poor folks just lost a child due to their religious faith. they have suffered enough.

Those poor Hog farmers that had a farm in the Midwest for 6 generations that had to grapple with the problem that a Muslem Temple had bought the land next to there's and sued them to stop operations as it offended them.  Man if this was me I would have a portable Hog cooker and every night move that darn thing so the wind was in their direction and make pork rinds, oh the smell is so good.

What next, you have the Virgin Mary in a bath tub in your garden, or a 4 foot Buddha in a Japanese garden and the neighbors are offended.? 
Do you really have to give up the money for the kids education for a lawyer to get the ass hat off your case.

BLUE laws are still around and thriving in parts of this country. Each state is allowed to make its own laws.  Unfortunately the religious are the ones that turn out in droves to pass laws that go with their beliefs.

Every day we are are confronted with laws and policies that are made by people not of our faith but theres.   In a way I can understand the Atheist jumping on the silly problem of a stamp. 

 


















Offline Eupher

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2010, 08:26:38 AM »


Hey Euph !!  S'good ta see ya again !!


I can answer this for ya, if ya don mind.  They (Christmas trees) are mistakenly regarded as secular as they are a holiday tradition with loose ties to actual Christian ritual and religious tradition.  Actually though they are a pagan hold over, as I'm sure you already know but just to reiterate for all concerned, so they really aren't "secular."

Yo, Nick. Good to see you on the boards as well. It's been awhile!

Um, I'm well aware of the "paganness" of the Christmas tree thing as to its origin, but let's be real here -- nobody actually thinks "pagan" when we're talking Christmas trees, mistletoe, or even the giving and receiving of gifts. Nobody thinks anything but "Christ's birthday" when we think December 25, even though the actual date isn't accurate since shepherds didn't mind their flocks in the wintertime. (Most historians evidently believe that Christ was born in September, IIRC.)

For most regular people, Christmas trees are synonymous with Christmas which, in turn, is synonymous with the birth of the Christ child. Nothing pagan about that. I'm sure Pope Julius wasn't thinking "pagan" when he decreed that Christ was born on Dec. 25. Or was he? Dunno....

I'll admit, however, that most of us worship the Pagan Idol "Shopping Mall". She is a vengeful god, smiting all of us if we don't max out our credit cards, if we don't walk through slush on our way to do homage to "Shopping Mall", and if we don't waste hours and hours standing in line at the Kids R Us. ("Kids R Us" is a lesser deity than Shopping Mall, but SM does keep track.)

And not to mix apples with oranges, but nobody thinks "pagan" when we're talking about Halloween, either, although you don't have to be a Satan-worshiper to know that.
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Offline AbsolutNickUSN

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2010, 08:24:54 PM »
Yo, Nick. Good to see you on the boards as well. It's been awhile!

Um, I'm well aware of the "paganness" of the Christmas tree thing as to its origin, but let's be real here -- nobody actually thinks "pagan" when we're talking Christmas trees, mistletoe, or even the giving and receiving of gifts. Nobody thinks anything but "Christ's birthday" when we think December 25, even though the actual date isn't accurate since shepherds didn't mind their flocks in the wintertime. (Most historians evidently believe that Christ was born in September, IIRC.)

For most regular people, Christmas trees are synonymous with Christmas which, in turn, is synonymous with the birth of the Christ child. Nothing pagan about that. I'm sure Pope Julius wasn't thinking "pagan" when he decreed that Christ was born on Dec. 25. Or was he? Dunno....


I'll agree that people relate Christmas trees to Christmas(JC's birth) but, Chistmas has lost it's religious meaning for a lot of people.  That doesn't kill me as you know I'm not a particularly religious person, although admittedly I have been attending mass for the past few months mostly for linguistic reasons, but by far and large Christmas has been secularized, "winter holiday,"  "seasons greetings,"  "the holidays," so on and so forth and that has reflected on public perceptions of holiday traditions like Christmas trees.


Pope Julius was probably thinking a little pagan, more to the point, thinking how to sell Christianity to the pagan masses.

I'll admit, however, that most of us worship the Pagan Idol "Shopping Mall". She is a vengeful god, smiting all of us if we don't max out our credit cards, if we don't walk through slush on our way to do homage to "Shopping Mall", and if we don't waste hours and hours standing in line at the Kids R Us. ("Kids R Us" is a lesser deity than Shopping Mall, but SM does keep track.)



The cult of "Online Shopping" is fast threatening the church of Our lady of the Holy Shopping Mall.   :bow:



And not to mix apples with oranges, but nobody thinks "pagan" when we're talking about Halloween, either, although you don't have to be a Satan-worshiper to know that.


That's cool.  Who'd want to bob for oranges?   :thatsright:
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Offline Eupher

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2010, 09:29:02 PM »
For one, Nick, I refuse to be sucked in by that swirling vortex known as "commercial Christmas", "Happy Holidays", and "**** you, it's December."

Nope, it's Christmas all the way, baby!

(I go to church on Christmas Eve, honk the horns, and hold up the candles during "Silent Night" as well.)

Do you think there's any hope? Or am I doomed?
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Offline AbsolutNickUSN

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #87 on: February 01, 2010, 10:21:01 PM »
"**** you it's December!"  OOOO I like that !!  I never heard a honkin the horn though.


I haven't really gotten into all that "Season's greetings," and "Happy Holidays" crap myself. I'll still say "Merry Christmas,"  even though I haven't done the Christmas Eve church thing in a looooooooooooooong time.

Unfortunately St Alphonsus doesn't do a Latin Christmas Eve service, otherwise I might have tried to go.


I may add "**** you, it's December" to my holiday repitoire.


Are ya doomed?  Nahhhh.



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Offline Eupher

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2010, 08:25:33 AM »
 I never heard a honkin the horn though.

<snip>


Nick, may I remind you that I'm a Eupher? And that I also have three other implements of destruction at my disposal? Namely a Conn bass trombone (affectionately known as "The Howitzer"), a Bach large-bore tenor trombone (not-so-affectionately called "The Laser"), and a Mirafon 3/4-sized tuba (lovingly referred to as "The Mortar")?

Christmas is prime honkin' time.

 :-)
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Offline AbsolutNickUSN

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2010, 05:28:19 PM »
Nick, may I remind you that I'm a Eupher? And that I also have three other implements of destruction at my disposal? Namely a Conn bass trombone (affectionately known as "The Howitzer"), a Bach large-bore tenor trombone (not-so-affectionately called "The Laser"), and a Mirafon 3/4-sized tuba (lovingly referred to as "The Mortar")?

Christmas is prime honkin' time.

 :-)



Oh duh my bad.  I thought you went drivin around honkin your car horn, like a football celebratory ritual.

I'll avoid invoking any cliché puns about tootin your own horn.   :lmao:
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Offline TheSarge

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2010, 07:09:21 PM »
Religions-- Judaism and Christianity. The US government is secular, not Judeo-Christian.

Really?  Where is that stated in any of the founding documents?

Surely you can point it out.

Quote
I don't have a problem with Christmas trees on publicly owned property because they're generally recognized as secular symbols.

Except your Liberal brethren have banned the term "Christmas Tree" and replaced it with "Holiday Tree" because of the same stupid wrong headed train of "thought" that you have.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2010, 07:15:34 PM »
For this being a so-called secular nation by the atheists, I have a question.  Why does almost every candidate for public office claim to be a Christian of one sort or another?  I don't recall any ever campaigning on the fact that they were an atheist or even and agnostic.

Offline Thor

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Re: Militant Atheism Picks On...
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2010, 11:20:01 PM »
For this being a so-called secular nation by the atheists, I have a question.  Why does almost every candidate for public office claim to be a Christian of one sort or another?  I don't recall any ever campaigning on the fact that they were an atheist or even and agnostic.

and to add to your question, why is it that nearly 80% of this nation claims some form of Christianity as their religion?? As was stated before, this is merely the minority attempting to impose their wishes on the majority. As far as I'm concerned, the minority can FOAD.
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