The only way we can make a success of Health Care Reform is to force it down the

[Freeper]

LostInAnomie  Donating Member  (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Thu Aug-13-09 07:12 PM
Original message
The only way we can make a success of Health Care Reform is to force it down the Repukes' throats
   
They are going to continue to lie and distort the bill no matter what the truth may be. Bipartisanship is a totally lost cause for this reason. Our only hope for this bill and electoral success it to force the bill down the Repukes' throats and show the American people that this bill is not going to kill Grandma, or any of the other shit they've been spewing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6298437

Oh please do please please please! 

Laelth  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)  Journal  Click to send private message to this author  Click to view this author's profile  Click to add this author to your buddy list  Click to add this author to your Ignore list      Fri Aug-14-09 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. I disagree. He will get re-elected SO LONG AS he doesn't pass a bad "insurance reform" bill.
   
This is not 1994. The Republican Party's popularity is in the toilet. Their leaders are insane (reflecting their rabid base). So long as Obama does not piss off 50 million Americans by forcing them to buy worthless insurance that they can not afford, he is safe.

I reject your premise.

If you actually bothered to read the bill you would know that Obama is gonna force us all to buy worthless insurance policies or pay a fine to the govt.

[delilahmused]

You know, I don't know why they just don't go ahead and do this. They have the votes. Why bother with the "repukes" at all. It should be a moot point.

Cindie

[DumbAss Tanker]

I fully expect we'll end up with a worthless but costly bill rammed down our throats, that's a give under the current Congressional make-up.  The GOP has a great chance for a comeback, but only if they stay the Hell away from trying to help it work despite its inherent fatal flaws.  They need to take it like men now and go down swinging in order to have any credibility when it comes time to unscrew it.

[Freeper]

You know, I don't know why they just don't go ahead and do this. They have the votes. Why bother with the "repukes" at all. It should be a moot point.

Cindie

Perhaps Im a conspiracy theorist but next year is an election year. I Kind of wonder if they are trying to drag this out until after the election.

[Rebel]

What are they going to do when people do start cappin' each other over this bullshit they're trying to "force" down our throats?

People are on edge. Understandably. If we had state politicians with some damn balls, a lot of this could be fought between those two entities (State vs. Fed....the Fed has no Constitutional power to do this, I believe that). However, we don't. Our state governments are apparently comprised of pussies.

[Freeper]

What are they going to do when people do start cappin' each other over this bullshit they're trying to "force" down our throats?

People are on edge. Understandably. If we had state politicians with some damn balls, a lot of this could be fought between those two entities (State vs. Fed....the Fed has no Constitutional power to do this, I believe that). However, we don't. Our state governments are apparently comprised of pussies.

To be fair Lincoln started squelching of states rights and by now the feds are so powerful the states really have no power. With a stroke of the pen any thing can be taken over by the feds now. All the states can do is pass worthless resolutions which would be a good thing to do but in the end the feds will win.

[Rebel]

To be fair Lincoln started squelching of states rights and by now the feds are so powerful the states really have no power. With a stroke of the pen any thing can be taken over by the feds now. All the states can do is pass worthless resolutions which would be a good thing to do but in the end the feds will win.

Oh really? The Fed isn't shit without the states. All states have a national guard and the US military is comprised of people from all states who would, more than likely, return home and defend their state over an overpowering fed. As for any fiscal support for the fed, that also comes from citizens of states and could be cut off on a whim. The Fed's power is a house of cards.

[Freeper]

Oh really? The Fed isn't shit without the states. All states have a national guard and the US military is comprised of people from all states who would, more than likely, return home and defend their state over an overpowering fed. As for any fiscal support for the fed, that also comes from citizens of states and could be cut off on a whim. The Fed's power is a house of cards.

Fed law supersedes state law so if the feds say it the states will do it. And for fiscal support the feds take whatever they want from us anyway before we get one dime of our paychecks.

[Rebel]

Fed law supersedes state law so if the feds say it the states will do it. And for fiscal support the feds take whatever they want from us anyway before we get one dime of our paychecks.

The 10th Amendment still stands and supersedes federal law. The fed can't just make a law that violates an amendment, not without a repealing of that amendment and the entire process involved...which has never happened. If the USSC and the Fed doesn't respect that, it's time to massively change the government. Somehow I think that's why the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was created. When the government stops serving the people, it's time for the government to go. When people fear the government, there's tyranny. When the government fears the people, there's liberty.

[Chris_]

Fed law supersedes state law so if the feds say it the states will do it. And for fiscal support the feds take whatever they want from us anyway before we get one dime of our paychecks.

Actually, no it doesn't.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

In other words, if the constitution itself doesn't give the Fed the authority, and alternately doesn't deny the authority to the several states, then BY DEFAULT the states - and their individual citizens - have the trumping authority here.  Even "Supreme Court Prescident" cannot grant the Fed an authority that the Constitution says it does not and cannot have.  Not without setting at nought the entire framework of the legitimate, constitutional government anyway.

[Freeper]

The 10th Amendment still stands and supersedes federal law. The fed can't just make a law that violates an amendment, not without a repealing of that amendment and the entire process involved...which has never happened. If the USSC and the Fed doesn't respect that, it's time to massively change the government. Somehow I think that's why the Constitution and the Bill of Rights was created. When the government stops serving the people, it's time for the government to go. When people fear the government, there's tyranny. When the government fears the people, there's liberty.

Since when have the feds followed the constitution in the past 100 years or so anyway? Technically taxation is still unconstitutional yet we fork over that money off the top of our paychecks. The cold reality is the feds are in charge whether its constitutional or not. If this bill passes it will be the law the land and short of getting congress to undo it we will be stuck with it. The fed govt is too large to go away, we are way passed the point of overthrowing them. The only possible way to change it is to vote in enough people to change the system and sadly the chances of that are slim to none. Hopefully though enough people are speaking up and will instill fear in the hearts of those who vote on this and this will go away.

[Rebel]

Since when have the feds followed the constitution in the past 100 years or so anyway? Technically taxation is still unconstitutional yet we fork over that money off the top of our paychecks. The cold reality is the feds are in charge whether its constitutional or not. If this bill passes it will be the law the land and short of getting congress to undo it we will be stuck with it. The fed govt is too large to go away, we are way passed the point of overthrowing them. The only possible way to change it is to vote in enough people to change the system and sadly the chances of that are slim to none. Hopefully though enough people are speaking up and will instill fear in the hearts of those who vote on this and this will go away.

Hence the second part of my post.

[Chris_]

Since when have the feds followed the constitution in the past 100 years or so anyway? Technically taxation is still unconstitutional yet we fork over that money off the top of our paychecks. The cold reality is the feds are in charge whether its constitutional or not. If this bill passes it will be the law the land and short of getting congress to undo it we will be stuck with it. The fed govt is too large to go away, we are way passed the point of overthrowing them. The only possible way to change it is to vote in enough people to change the system and sadly the chances of that are slim to none. Hopefully though enough people are speaking up and will instill fear in the hearts of those who vote on this and this will go away.

Just because the Fed hasn't stayed within the bounds the Constitution sets doesn't make the States any less in the right to re-assert their authority over the Fed at any time.  Anything the Fed did at that point to retain control of it's power would be akin to my son's temper tantrums, and no less unconstitution for the level of force and coercsion they'd use.

[Freeper]

Actually, no it doesn't.

In other words, if the constitution itself doesn't give the Fed the authority, and alternately doesn't deny the authority to the several states, then BY DEFAULT the states - and their individual citizens - have the trumping authority here.  Even "Supreme Court Prescident" cannot grant the Fed an authority that the Constitution says it does not and cannot have.  Not without setting at nought the entire framework of the legitimate, constitutional government anyway.

Actually for the past 150 years or so it does. Ever since Lincoln expanded the power of the feds, federal law does supersede state law. No matter what it says in the constitution this is how things are run now. I don't like it but I am being realistic about the situation.

[Rebel]

Actually for the past 150 years or so it does. Ever since Lincoln expanded the power of the feds, federal law does supersede state law. No matter what it says in the constitution this is how things are run now. I don't like it but I am being realistic about the situation.

He did so without the approval of the US Constitution, hence, it's invalid. I'm not talking about a nice little transition with flowers and lollipops here, I'm talking about taking the country back to what it was intended, with any means necessary. This was what our founders believed.

[Freeper]

Just because the Fed hasn't stayed within the bounds the Constitution sets doesn't make the States any less in the right to re-assert their authority over the Fed at any time.  Anything the Fed did at that point to retain control of it's power would be akin to my son's temper tantrums, and no less unconstitution for the level of force and coercsion they'd use.

If you think an individual state can stand up and say no we wont follow the law you are mistaken. The feds will make sure their will is done.
Sorry guys the feds will win in this. Our only chance is to kill the legislation before it becomes law.

[Freeper]

He did so without the approval of the US Constitution, hence, it's invalid. I'm not talking about a nice little transition with flowers and lollipops here, I'm talking about taking the country back to what it was intended, with any means necessary. This was what our founders believed.

If you think you can out gun the feds more power to you.

[Rebel]

If you think an individual state can stand up and say no we wont follow the law you are mistaken. The feds will make sure their will is done.
Sorry guys the feds will win in this. Our only chance is to kill the legislation before it becomes law.

One states starts, you'll start seeing dominoes falling. That I can assure you.

[Rebel]

If you think you can out gun the feds more power to you.

I didn't say me. I said the state of Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, Nebraska, Utah, Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc., etc., etc. Oh, but the Fed has the US Army? Not without troops it doesn't. ...and where are the majority of troops from? The South and Midwest.

[Freeper]

One states starts, you'll start seeing dominoes falling. That I can assure you.

I don't see that happening. Every state will fall in line.

[Chris_]

If you think an individual state can stand up and say no we wont follow the law you are mistaken. The feds will make sure their will is done.
Sorry guys the feds will win in this. Our only chance is to kill the legislation before it becomes law.

No, but an individual state can stand up and say "No, we will no longer be held to UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws." and I think it would find a surprising amount of company beside it.

So long as you continue to believe that they surround you, to borrow from Glenn Beck, then nothing will change.  It is once you realize that we, in fact SURROUND THEM, that the enema that needt to come to our government at all levels can be brought in.

[Rebel]

I don't see that happening. Every state will fall in line.

It's only happened one time in history. How'd that work out, with the other states?

[Freeper]

I didn't say me. I said the state of Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, Nebraska, Utah, Oklahoma, Texas, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc., etc., etc. Oh, but the Fed has the US Army? Not without troops it doesn't. ...and where are the majority of troops from? The South and Midwest.

Ohh so you are a chickenhawk then?  

I cant see this being organized and carried out. An armed revolt against our govt is not gonna happen.

[Freeper]

It's only happened one time in history. How'd that work out, with the other states?

Are you kidding me? Every time the feds pass a law every state falls in line. If this wasn't the case abortion would be illegal in the south they would have told them to cram Roe V Wade up their asses.

[Rebel]

Ohh so you are a chickenhawk then?  

I cant see this being organized and carried out. An armed revolt against our govt is not gonna happen.

It won't be a revolt anymore than the War of Northern Aggression was a "Civil War". Revolt against whom? They can keep that shithole known as D.C. I'd be fine right here in Georgia. All it had to be was states telling the fed to **** off and essentially stop abiding by their unconstitutional laws. If the fed wants to bring it to the states, that's on them. They lost 360K people last time and I don't think they'll have the same success as they did the last time. Not with the ***** moonbats on the left.