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Current Events => Economics => Topic started by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 10:53:08 AM

Title: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 10:53:08 AM
Hi All,

A quick bit of background.  On the first of this month I tuned 69 years old.  I lived my life by the rules, joined the military, got out and provided for my family and raised them and taught them how to survive on their own in the world.  For most of my working life I worked from 60-80 hours per week, and in my fourties finally got smart enough to realize I needed to save some money.  I did that, and just like my generation was taught, I bought primarily CD's and was prepared to take my social security and interest from the CD's and live off it for the duration.  The fact that I accumulated some money was probably more attributable to the fact I worked my ass off as opposed to being smart.

Well in the last three weeks I have seen 1/3 of the CD's in my IRA (mostly 5%+) being called in by the banks and I know I cannot come close to replacing them.  Basically the banks are using TARP money to pay off their debts (instead of make loans) which is really going to hurt a lot of seniors living on a fixed income.  I am looking at alternatives, none of which generate nearly as much income so I must "hope" that I get some appreciation along the way.  That is scary, at one point in life government backed CD's were considered as good as gold and offered a predictible return for retirees to live on.....not any more.

Yesterday I finished Ann Coulter's book "GUILTY" and I would recommend it to everyone.  Basically she points out, and documents (the last 30+ pages are footnotes and documentation) the absolute hyprocosy of the mainstream media and how they cover for the damn libs and bash Bush when he does the same doggone thing.  When a lib does something it is a good thing, when a republican does the same thing it is a catastrophe.  While it is something we all talk about, kind of accept, when you see it outlined in detail by Coulter is kinda slaps you upside the head if you get my drift.

What is really starting to get to me is this.  I played by the rules, and did what was right.  I provided for myself and my family so I did not have to look to the government or my children to support me in my old age.  Yet I see my income dropping drastically, I see huge inflation on the horizon which will hurt seniors even more and we are powerless, for the moment anyway, to stop it.  First thing I ask myself is why is it this way?

My first conclusion is the media.  If they would just print the truth and educate the public our society would be so much better off.  No one, other than liberal democrat government workers who garner power, will be better off with massive government debt, dumbed down health care and all the other crap that is going on.  Certainly the cuts in defense and our issues with the CIA does not make our country safer.  Why is the media so hell bent on lying to the public to protect liberal democrat candidates?  They stand to lose too and many are losing their jobs but they keep at it for crying out loud.

A freind of mine told me that liberals just don't think like we do and that is easy to gather.  Most of the time I know already what their stand on issues will be.  At the same time it is impossible for me to understand how in the hell people can be so stupid as to not see the obvious, what is going on right before their very eyes.  Once again, the reason many don't get it is because the media does not tell them and they flat refuse to watch Fox because they think it is a poison or something.  I am sure you have all experienced the fact you cannot have a logical political discussion with a liberal.  Impossible.  They get all emotional, start attacking, and cannot seem to hear, much less accept the truth and the facts.

My second conclusion is that the republican party sucks too.  They do not stick with conservative values.  We had a chance to make some real progress for our society and instead we wasted the chance because we became more concerned about wanting to be liked by the mainstream media.  Right now they make fun of Limbaugh leading the Republican party but I would take him over any of the other clowns I have seen.  So what does that leave us with?  Tea parties and hope for a miracle I guess.  They only happen to olympic hockey players and lottery winners, not to the average person, that's for sure.

I am thankful for the fact I currently have decent health, and I am not out of work with a family to feed.  At the same time it terrifies me to think what things will be like 5-10 years from now if they continue as they are now.  Hate to say it but it may almost take a war to get our country to snap out of it and wake up. 

Not about to give up fighting for what is right by any means, but it sure is maddening.  The problems we have would be easily fixed if the mainstream media just told the truth.  The American people would have such an uproar congress would not know what hit them. 

Sorry folks, I just had to vent, things are really starting to get to me.

regards,
5412

Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: debk on May 09, 2009, 12:21:24 PM
I have to admit that I too, am getting scared.

As many of you know, I am a Realtor, and besides selling property, I also do what's called Broker Price Opinions for a variety of major lenders through a third party company.

I do either a "drive by" or an interior. Both are pretty self-explanatory. I take exterior pictures of the house and street and with an interior, I also take interior pictures of each room and any damage.

The report consists of current market conditions for the subject's designated mls area, and comparing the property with 3 currently listed properties and 3 sold properties. All 6 comps must meet certain criteria in appropriate comparison....age, style (ranch, 2 story, cape cod, etc), GLA (gross living area-heated, cooled and finished space above ground level), lot size, condition and proximity within .5m urban, 1m suburban, 3m rural. Solds must be within the last 180 days, though many lenders are switching to within 90 days and that the lists/solds cannot have been on the market more than 90 days.

It is becoming more and more difficult to find solds within the comp criteria, particularly in homes over $200,000.

It used to be that based on market data, an agent could price a house to sell within 90 days...fairly easily.

This is no longer the case. There is no way to predict these days.

The end of April ended the moratorium on foreclosures. I've already had 12 reports this month. I have 11 listings, several that should be swamped with showings, and can't even get phone calls on them.

I received a monthly report yesterday from my local Association of Realtors. In it was a letter written by the president of the National Association of Realtors to the President, Geithner, and a few others... telling them that while the banks may have gotten TARP money...it isn't filtering into the housing market.

The housing market has to be saved!!!

It isn't just for the homeowners...it's the entire industry and how it ripples out into many other industries.

This is no longer a question of people who bought houses above what they could afford in real life not on paper, it's about people who have lost their jobs because of the economy and no longer have an income to pay for their mortgages! Banks need to work with these people to help them through the crisis and give them time to find a job, reduce their interest rate, and figure out a way to help them stay in their homes.

There are not enough liquid buyers out there to buy all these homes that are going into foreclosure!

I have a foreclosure that listed at $219,900 and been on the market almost 30 days. The first showing on the property was the other day. They wrote an offer to close in 2 WEEKS! for $192,000. Bank countered at $215,000. Buyers walked. There are 7 other houses on the market in that subdivision!

What is causing all these properties to devalue is that there are too many properties going into foreclosure, short sales, people who are "dumping" their properties on the market below market value to get out before they are foreclosed on, and an oversaturation of the market.

When you have a $!50,000 home, in good condition, and you are comparable to you neighborhood....3 houses go on the market. One is a foreclosure, one is a resale with a motivated seller, and one is facing foreclosure so the bank allows a "short" sale and all of these houses sell for a lower than "normal" amount....it brings the SELLING VALUE of the $150,000 house down to "match" up with the others. 

What all these brilliant economists are not taking into account on this housing crisis...is that if that $150,000 house burned to the ground....IT COULD NOT BE REPLACED FOR $150,000!!!!! The replacement value is going to be higher because of material and labor costs!

As long as the banks are being closed-fisted with their money, raising credit card usage rates, not giving out business loans....the economy is going to continue to tank because people are going to become more and more tight with their own money and only buy necessities.

Damn government would have been better off handing out money to each individual in the country to let them go out and spend it...demand would increase and supply would have to increase to meet the demand and jobs would have to be kept/created to provide the supply to the consumer.

It's basic economics....doesn't require a PhD to know....WE all learned it in high school.  :thatsright:



Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Splashdown on May 09, 2009, 01:06:53 PM
I'm not the ususal tinfoil-type guy, but remember that Obama said that Wall Street--which I read to be the private sector--will have a "less dominant" roll.  link (http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/national-1/124131542428840.xml&storylist=new_topstories)

Your investments tanking, the banks refusing to loan money? All that makes private individuals more reliant on public funds. If your CDs aren't paying out, if your house can't sell, you're going to be much more willing to see raises in social security entitlements, especially if those entitlements mean more to you a month.

And there's one more step closer to socialism.

Am I off base here??
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 01:27:55 PM
I'm not the ususal tinfoil-type guy, but remember that Obama said that Wall Street--which I read to be the private sector--will have a "less dominant" roll.  link (http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/national-1/124131542428840.xml&storylist=new_topstories)

Your investments tanking, the banks refusing to loan money? All that makes private individuals more reliant on public funds. If your CDs aren't paying out, if your house can't sell, you're going to be much more willing to see raises in social security entitlements, especially if those entitlements mean more to you a month.

And there's one more step closer to socialism.

Am I off base here??

Hi,

No, I think you are right on target.  If a government can bring a society down to their "survival" mode they can pretty much do anything they want.  Seems to me that most everything BO has done is along that line.

First thing a dictator would have to do is destroy the middle class, which he is hell-bent on doing, and pit one social class against another so they do not unite to overthrow the king.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Thor on May 09, 2009, 03:33:11 PM
5412, watch (or listen to) The Obama Deception. While it IS by Alex Jones ( a "Truther"), he makes some interesting theories and points. I published a link to it in another board/ thread here on CC
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 04:01:34 PM
5412, watch (or listen to) The Obama Deception. While it IS by Alex Jones ( a "Truther"), he makes some interesting theories and points. I published a link to it in another board/ thread here on CC

Hi Thor,

I just finished writing a four page article I may try to get published.  I titled it Maslow, Capitalism, Communism and the redistribution of wealth.  If anyone is interested I can email it to them....or I suppose I could post it but it is four pages long.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Odin's Hand on May 09, 2009, 04:10:12 PM
Hi Thor,

I just finished writing a four page article I may try to get published.  I titled it Maslow, Capitalism, Communism and the redistribution of wealth.  If anyone is interested I can email it to them....or I suppose I could post it but it is four pages long.
regards,
5412

I'd be interested in reading it if you wouldn't mind posting it.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 04:13:05 PM
I'd be interested in reading it if you wouldn't mind posting it.

Hi,

I am flattered that you would be interested.  I just did not want to get in trouble by posting something four pages long.  I will put it on a new thread.

thanks,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 09, 2009, 04:55:36 PM

Well in the last three weeks I have seen 1/3 of the CD's in my IRA (mostly 5%+) being called in by the banks and I know I cannot come close to replacing them.  Basically the banks are using TARP money to pay off their debts (instead of make loans) which is really going to hurt a lot of seniors living on a fixed income.  I am looking at alternatives, none of which generate nearly as much income so I must "hope" that I get some appreciation along the way.  That is scary, at one point in life government backed CD's were considered as good as gold and offered a predictible return for retirees to live on.....not any more.


What is really starting to get to me is this.  I played by the rules, and did what was right.  I provided for myself and my family so I did not have to look to the government or my children to support me in my old age.  Yet I see my income dropping drastically, I see huge inflation on the horizon which will hurt seniors even more and we are powerless, for the moment anyway, to stop it.  First thing I ask myself is why is it this way?

regards,
5412

I am a couple of years older than you and retired 3 years ago. Hang in there; things will get better. When I feel down in the dumps I watch Dave Ramsey. Once thing that has helped me is to be debt free. If you are not, working on that should be your main goal. My retirement with my SS is about 75% of the salary I was making when working, and I have more than half left over after all my monthly bills are paid off.

I have a small portion of my cash in the stock market and have invested in gold coins. I would not advise anyone to do that unless they were young or could afford to lose and/or had time on their side to gain it back.

My only advise to you would be to wait it out for several months,till the end of the year or even till next year. Don't go hog wild and put it in risky investment. In a year or two, you could invest in a large cap fund that has blue chip stocks like Wal Mart, IBM, AT&t. Because of the run up in the stock market for the last 2 months, I would not be surprised to see the market drop big time. Investing in mutual funds or ETF's is your best bet. An old fart like me taught myself about the market, ran charts, compared funds, etc . I studied on the internet for 3 months before I bought my first mutual fund, and caught the tail end of the real estate boom and did quite will with REIT's. 
 
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 05:09:33 PM
I am a couple of years older than you and retired 3 years ago. Hang in there; things will get better. When I feel down in the dumps I watch Dave Ramsey. Once thing that has helped me is to be debt free. If you are not, working on that should be your main goal. My retirement with my SS is about 75% of the salary I was making when working, and I have more than half left over after all my monthly bills are paid off.

I have a small portion of my cash in the stock market and have invested in gold coins. I would not advise anyone to do that unless they were young or could afford to lose and/or had time on their side to gain it back.

My only advise to you would be to wait it out for several months,till the end of the year or even till next year. Don't go hog wild and put it in risky investment. In a year or two, you could invest in a large cap fund that has blue chip stocks like Wal Mart, IBM, AT&t. Because of the run up in the stock market for the last 2 months, I would not be surprised to see the market drop big time. Investing in mutual funds or ETF's is your best bet. An old fart like me taught myself about the market, ran charts, compared funds, etc . I studied on the internet for 3 months before I bought my first mutual fund, and caught the tail end of the real estate boom and did quite will with REIT's. 
 

Hi,

Thanks for the encouragement.  I have been debt free for years.  I too am investing in gold and getting as much of my IRA out of the country into foreign currencies as I can.  I am from the old school also.  Personally I got to the point in life where I figured I could live off the interest and got out of the market.  What scares me now is that I may have to look for better returns than the 1-2% CD's to throw off enough income.  What it boils down to is that I am going to have to incur risk once again to get a decent return and that is unsettling to say the least.

BTW, be careful with gold coins.  Roosevelt confiscated all the gold by requiring the citizens to sell the gold back to the government for $20/oz.  Once he got it all collected he then decreed that gold was worth $35/oz.  Basically he devalued the dollar by 60% which really screws folks our age.  I had some gold coins and learned something a couple months back.  Used to be that collector coins were not subject to confiscation.  Now the government has decreed that the value of the coin must be over 50% of the value of the gold or it is considered bullion and could be subject to confiscation.  That means if you have a $20 gold piece that has been in your family for years you may well have to sell it to the government for worthless paper.  As Roosevelt is BO's role model I think it is just a matter of time before he calls in the gold and that is going to be a real problem.

Might want to check out the following website:  http://www.europac.net/investment_perth_best.asp   

We actually sold our coins and bought certificates.  If you want to email me I can give you the name and number of a guy who knows this stuff inside and out.

I do appreciate very much the perspective, I guess things are never as bad as they seem when one gets a bit emotional about it.

regards,
5412

Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: franksolich on May 09, 2009, 05:42:03 PM
Hi,

I am flattered that you would be interested.  I just did not want to get in trouble by posting something four pages long.  I will put it on a new thread.

thanks,
5412

Oh, Hell, 5412.

If you think it's good, by all means post it, no matter the length.

<<champion long-poster here.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: rich_t on May 09, 2009, 06:00:40 PM
Oh, Hell, 5412.

If you think it's good, by all means post it, no matter the length.

<<champion long-poster here.

I thought it was a good read Frank.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: franksolich on May 09, 2009, 06:23:34 PM
I thought it was a good read Frank.

I did too.

5412 is a great writer; I wish I were half as good.

I need to emphasize that no one, but no one, should worry about the length of something.  If one thinks it's good, if one thinks it's enlightening, one should post it.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: rich_t on May 09, 2009, 06:41:52 PM
I did too.

5412 is a great writer; I wish I were half as good.

I need to emphasize that no one, but no one, should worry about the length of something.  If one thinks it's good, if one thinks it's enlightening, one should post it.

I concur.  There is nothing in the TOS concerning post length that I can recall.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 09, 2009, 07:09:19 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the encouragement.  I have been debt free for years.  I too am investing in gold and getting as much of my IRA out of the country into foreign currencies as I can.  I am from the old school also.  Personally I got to the point in life where I figured I could live off the interest and got out of the market.  What scares me now is that I may have to look for better returns than the 1-2% CD's to throw off enough income.  What it boils down to is that I am going to have to incur risk once again to get a decent return and that is unsettling to say the least.

BTW, be careful with gold coins.  Roosevelt confiscated all the gold by requiring the citizens to sell the gold back to the government for $20/oz.  Once he got it all collected he then decreed that gold was worth $35/oz.  Basically he devalued the dollar by 60% which really screws folks our age.  I had some gold coins and learned something a couple months back.  Used to be that collector coins were not subject to confiscation.  Now the government has decreed that the value of the coin must be over 50% of the value of the gold or it is considered bullion and could be subject to confiscation.  That means if you have a $20 gold piece that has been in your family for years you may well have to sell it to the government for worthless paper.  As Roosevelt is BO's role model I think it is just a matter of time before he calls in the gold and that is going to be a real problem.

Might want to check out the following website:  http://www.europac.net/investment_perth_best.asp   

We actually sold our coins and bought certificates.  If you want to email me I can give you the name and number of a guy who knows this stuff inside and out.

I do appreciate very much the perspective, I guess things are never as bad as they seem when one gets a bit emotional about it.

regards,
5412



Thanks for the info. I am aware that the government at some point and time might recall gold bullion. However, at the present time, that would kill the goose that lays the golden egg because the mint is making a ton of money off of gold and silver coins. For example, a 1 ounce Eagle coin sells for around $400 over the spot price. From what I have read, you can take as many gold eagle coins out of the country. So I assume the $10k rule would not apply. As long as the price does not escalate out of control upward, I don't think we will have a problem. If it hits $1,500, I will cash half in. Same deal with silver;once it hits 20 bucks it will be time to cash in.   

I am lucky that I have most of my cash in a 401k fund that is drawing 4.1% interest but it is killing me that the cash in my brokerage account is drawing a whooping .1%. Can not draw it all out cause I would have to pay taxes on it.

Hang in there; things will eventually get better. If not, I might move to Panama. :-) 



 
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Carl on May 09, 2009, 07:17:17 PM
I am not a tinfoiler either but I do think that the O administration wishes to solve the Social Security problem by funding a new pyramid with existing private 401Ks and IRAs.

Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 09, 2009, 07:53:12 PM
I am not a tinfoiler either but I do think that the O administration wishes to solve the Social Security problem by funding a new pyramid with existing private 401Ks and IRAs.



What bothers me is that this tyrant might try to tap into the trillions in retirement accounts of city, state and federal civil service employees. We had a turncoat Repub Gov. of LA (Buddy Roemer) that tried to take all the money out and put an IOU in the fund. Fortunately for us, the legislature turned him down. 
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 08:01:07 PM
Thanks for the info. I am aware that the government at some point and time might recall gold bullion. However, at the present time, that would kill the goose that lays the golden egg because the mint is making a ton of money off of gold and silver coins. For example, a 1 ounce Eagle coin sells for around $400 over the spot price. From what I have read, you can take as many gold eagle coins out of the country. So I assume the $10k rule would not apply. As long as the price does not escalate out of control upward, I don't think we will have a problem. If it hits $1,500, I will cash half in. Same deal with silver;once it hits 20 bucks it will be time to cash in.   

I am lucky that I have most of my cash in a 401k fund that is drawing 4.1% interest but it is killing me that the cash in my brokerage account is drawing a whooping .1%. Can not draw it all out cause I would have to pay taxes on it.

Hang in there; things will eventually get better. If not, I might move to Panama. :-) 



 

Hi,

I am a member of the Soveerign Society which is really promoting a sovereign individual.  They have an entire group that deals with expats and I just got their book about it.  Panama ranks pretty high.  You sound like the type of person that might enjoy their daily newsletter and all they have to offer.  Might want to take a peek at their website, it is very affordable.

Better be careful about taking gold out of the country.  From what I understand if you try to take more than $10,000 in value you have to declare it.  If you do not, then the government just goes ahead and confiscates it.  That is why the Perth Mint Certificates have great potential.  They are not gold, nor are they legal tender.  If you head to Panama, just put the certificates in your briefcase, get to Panama and have them convert it to cash and wire it to Panama for you.  I would suggest you talk with someone who is an expert in that area because I am now convinced that owning gold inside this country is not as safe as it used to be.  Good chance they will have to recall gold to try to stabilize the currency for the following reason.

Also, with the defecit spending, I fear that the day will come like Nazi Germany when we will have to take a wheel barrow full of money to buy food.  The dollar will collapse at some point because we cannot continue printing money and China is not going to take any more of our debt.  That is why one should consider being in gold or a solid foreign currency, out of US dollars. 

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 08:05:45 PM
I am not a tinfoiler either but I do think that the O administration wishes to solve the Social Security problem by funding a new pyramid with existing private 401Ks and IRAs.



Hi,

I know Pelosi has said that in the past.  Basically with that they then confiscate most all the wealth in the land and pay it back with worthless IOU's and several million more are in the dependency class.  I know several folks who have said the hell with it, cashed in their IRA, paid their taxes and moved their money offshore......not to avoid taxes but rather to be invested in non-US dollars that are a lot harder to confiscate.  I rolled my IRA into a Roth and paid the taxes on the conversion.  I figured it was cheaper to pay the top rate now as opposed to what it will be by the time BO gets done with it.  I can see the day coming when they have a wealth tax, much like a personal property tax where the federal government just takes some of your money because you are rich and greedy and do not pay your fair share.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: seabelle on May 09, 2009, 08:48:29 PM
{{{hugs}}} 5412

This is why I joined the local Tea Party group, and also signed up to attend the 9-12 rally in DC. 

We are not alone in the concerns you mention.  It's a great support network, and growing.  Don't pay attention to that "MSM Man behind the curtain", they are trying to difuse the movement by making idiotic jokes about tea bagging.

There's also a National July 4th rally planned all over America too.  I think I'll post a new thread with all the details once I find all the info.

Stay active, and you'll definitely be among friends  :cheersmate:
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 09, 2009, 09:03:50 PM
{{{hugs}}} 5412

This is why I joined the local Tea Party group, and also signed up to attend the 9-12 rally in DC. 

We are not alone in the concerns you mention.  It's a great support network, and growing.  Don't pay attention to that "MSM Man behind the curtain", they are trying to difuse the movement by making idiotic jokes about tea bagging.

There's also a National July 4th rally planned all over America too.  I think I'll post a new thread with all the details once I find all the info.

Stay active, and you'll definitely be among friends  :cheersmate:

Hi,

Hug was much appreciated.  I think you are right, all we have is one another at this point. 

My wife and I, being prospective terrorists, also went to the Tea Party in Tampa.  Would be very much interested in information on further events.  We are going to have to keep screaming until the idiots in Washington get the message or get voted out.

(((hug back)))

5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: franksolich on May 09, 2009, 09:08:06 PM
I concur.  There is nothing in the TOS concerning post length that I can recall.

There is no policy, because the limitations of the software here dictate it; one can't go beyond the capacity of the software.

The "character limit" is 25,000, and so 5412 has nothing to worry about; he's never even come close.

This is why I am compelled to "break up" short stories--and currently, the new edition of DU For Guests--into several "comments."

If 5412 or any other member is trying to post something long, and the software says, oops, no, can't do that, hang on to what one has, and holler at me, and I'll help take care of it. 
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: debk on May 09, 2009, 11:19:21 PM
I was out with my runnin' buddy after reading your comments today, 5412, and I was telling her about it.

We went from your comments and mine to the swine flu.

Last week(week ago) it was all over the news....the past few days...almost zip. Yet in the state of TN...the number of cases is doubling daily.

We met our respective spouse/partner tonight and brought up the discussion with the guys. They were kind of "you're over-reacting to the flu" routine.

It's not the flu, itself...that is our concern...it's that it was all over the news 24/7 and drops to almost zilch mention, with the US now having more cases than Mexico. (you can go on the CDC website and track it).

What was the government...and getting the media on their bandwagon... trying to hide from us last week, that has now passed in the last few days? It's like we were manipulated into fearing death from the flu for 5 or 6 days to oh well, no big deal in the past 3 to 4.

I really don't think this is a tin-foil conspiracy....I do think we as a population are being totally manipulated by Obama and his merry band of idiots.

I also think we as a population better be figuring it out PDQ...before it's too late.....
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 10, 2009, 08:31:04 AM
....I do think we as a population are being totally manipulated by Obama and his merry band of idiots.

I also think we as a population better be figuring it out PDQ...before it's too late.....
[/quote]



Good Morning,

For some reason last night my mind kept drifting back to your situation as a real estate agent. It finally hit me how you used the word manipulated and just how accurate that really is; particularly as it applies to your industry.

At one time in my life I wrote a textbook chapter for sales people called "Business Economics for the Professional Salesman."  Many of my clients sold true commdodities, stone, plastic for molding, lumber.  In the chapter I really taught them the fundamental economic law of supply and demand and how it always comes into play in the marketplace, despite attempts by the government and others to manipulate it.

A quick analogy.  OPEC really is a group of oil producing countries that tries to limit supply of oil to keep the price up so they can maximize their profits.  If our idiots in Washington allowed us to drill in the north slope of Alaska and offshore in the Gulf of Mexico, that would increase the world supply of oil and OPEC would be rendered impotent because they no longer could control supply and our pump prices would drop considerable.  Now the OPEC people are not stupid.  They know when the price of gas gets too high our public starts raising hell to start drilling......they will immediately increase the supply.....price comes down a tad....and the political pressure on Washington stops and they do nothing about domestic drilling.

When you think about it, what really caused the housing boom to begin with?  It was really caused by the do-gooder libs, with great assist from ACORN and the Clinton administration, demanding that banks lend money for homes to people who cannot afford them.  They set quotas for minority lending, ACORN demonstrated in the bank lobbies to drive the banks other customers away if they did not comply.  There was a bank in rural CO that protested, there were no minorities in the town they served so they could not meet their quotas.  They were politely told by the government that was their problem, go open a branch up in the inner city and start lending to minorities.  BOTTOM LINE....the government with their regulations and easy money from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, created a HUGE artficial demand for housing.  When demand goes up, and supply is low, the prices rise until the supply can equalize out with the current demand. 

In 2004 we built a house in Lakeland, FL in a new subdivision.  The house next door was completed and our neighbors were standing in our driveway talking to us the day before their walk through and closing was to take place.  A car was driving up and down the street (a short cul-de-sac) and stopped by us and the window came down. The driver started a conversation with my neighbor and promptly offered them $100,000 more for their house than they paid for it if they would not close and let them buy it instead.  Prices rose rapidly, which in turn invited speculators into the market, which in turn created more demand, which made prices raise even more.

When the banks complained to ACORN that they could not continue to lend this money to folks who can't pay it back, ACORN went to Clintona and talked him into having Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy those loans from the bank so the process could continue.  In the last couple years of the Bush administration an investigation was launched into Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the investigator reported to Congress that there were several irregularities and they needed to be regulated just like any other bank in America.  The regulator was basically shot down by Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Hillary, Pelosi and others and nothing was done.  Less than two years later the house of cards collapsed.

From a political standpoint, the entire mess was caused by the damn libs and somehow, with the assistance of the mainstream media, it gets blamed on Bush and BO, Barney Frank and his merry band of idiots ride in on their white horse to fix things.......

Back to your perspective.  You talked about the comps in pricing.  It has to be difficult as heck for you because indeed homes will be appraised and sell for much less than it would cost to rebuild them.  Make no mistake, several folks who have insured their home at replacement cost are going to figure that out too and there will be lots of unusual fires taking place by folks who want out of their house and cannot sell them.  In effect, because of the idiots in Washington they have totally flipped the supply/demand curve to the point that we have a HUGE ARTIFICAL SUPPLY of homes and we, as a society will not return to what a realtor would call a normal market until two things happen. 

First, the new construction will have to stop, which for the most part it has, so the current inventory of homes, etc wil have to be brought back down to a normal level.  Second, the banks have stopped lending to everyone, whether they have good or bad credit.  My original thread pointed that out.  I have, or had, several 5-6% CD's and the bank, with their freshly printed TARP money would rather retire their debt by calling in those CD's, instead of lending that money to folks who want to buy a home etc.  While I do not like it, if they can only lend money at 5% on a mortgage, that involves risk, why wouldn't they pay down their debts at 5-6% because that is guaranteed..

As damn ugly as this sounds, (having held real estate licenses in two states many years ago) my suggestion would be to educate every seller you have on just exactly what is going on in the market like you did in your response to my post.  Real estate is a commoditity just like gold, wheat, stone, etc.  Two years ago gold may have sold for $2,000/oz. but if today the market is $1,000/oz. that is the price and if you want to sell yours that is the best you are going to get.

I mentioned earlier that I am a member of a group called "The Sovereign Society" and we get a newsletter from them every day.  I just went back and found something I saw earlier in the week about this subject which likely applies to you and your situation.  I think the author is right on target.  I will post it at the end of this response.

Hang in there!  I think that this likely is going to be a long and painful trough for those selling real estate but the supply/demand curve will eventually even out...it always does.  Those who understand the market and work their tails off will still survive.  Those who are newcomers to the industry, who thought they were super sales people during the boom are now going to learn what selling real estate is all about.  As you have probably observed, I told young folks at the time that this is not a normal market, do not go buy the new BMW, Cadillac, whatever and finance it because the market will turn on you, it will not be this way forever.  Good news is the law of supply and demand works for real estate agents also.  Those wanting easy money will drop out so the rest can survive, normally the good ones do.

regards,
5412

Following is an excerpt from the article I mentioned:


...........And That’s Confusing Real Estate Speculation
With Real Estate Investment
It didn’t even occur to me until just a few weeks ago.

I was watching a presentation from Frank Trotter of EverBank, and it gave me a renewed bearishness for housing. As one of America’s few responsible bankers, Frank has an intimate knowledge of the U.S. housing market…and since his bank isn’t holding a boatload of “toxic assets,” he tells it like it is.

He insisted that houses are not investments; they’re utilities. Buying a house for US$150,000 in 1975….then selling it for ~US$850,000 in 2005…sounds great, but after inflation, you only made about 1.5% a year.

That’s a nice little gain, but not on an investment. The house required upkeep…the lawn had to be mowed…you can look at the 1.5% as a return on your time.

And yet, as Frank answered questions following his presentation, the audience asked questions about when…and where…they should be buying houses. “Is it a good time to buy in Austin?” they asked…

And I realized that we’ve all been fooled. Hoodwinked you might say.

You see, the bubble saw prices rising like a rocket ship; and anyone with a piece of the action stood to make a ton of money. Even I watched the shows on TLC – saw a few nervous, amateurish homeowners flip a house and clear US$100,000 – and I was fascinated. “If they could do it…” we all thought.

But that was during the bubble. And as prices fall across the board, so do the profits to be had from speculation. And just because houses might start to seem cheap doesn’t mean the market’s in for the same kind of rising prices we saw in recent years. In other words; speculation is dying a pretty quick death in U.S. housing markets.

And indeed, most bubble-based “investment” really turned out to be speculation. These deals exposed “investors” to a heap of leverage…and as the old saying goes… “Leverage makes poor men rich, and rich men poor.”

But at the same time, falling prices are making true Real Estate investment more and more attractive, as houses and apartments reach crucial rent ratios and rates hit all-time lows.

So what is true Real Estate investing?

It’s All About Cash Flow!
And in some ways it’s easier…and far safer…than any form of Real Estate speculation.

Our Executive Editor – XXXXXXX XXXX – has been investing in Real Estate for years. He’s taught courses and seminars on the subject…made a bundle off of cash-flowing properties…organized deals for other investors…and he knows firsthand the profit potential of true real estate investment.

And unlike most people, XXXXXX still sees mortgages as a great way to build your wealth with relative safety. In a recent conversation with some of the younger members of our staff, XXXXXX laid out a scenario where Real Estate investment could make them a fortune by the time they reach their 50’s…

“Go out and buy some houses selling for ultra cheap prices,” he says. “Buy at 4 to 5 times annual rent. You'll be able to pay management, all expenses and debt service, allow for 10% vacancy and put a few dollars in your pocket every month. But make sure you get a fixed rate. Because the mortgage will then "kill off" the balance through amortization.”

“So buy a house today for $50k that was worth $125k at the peak”

“Have it professionally managed. 30 years from now, the mortgage will be zero. If you throw the extra cash flow at the principal, you'll probably pay it off in 20 years or a little less. You'll own the $50k house, free and clear.”

“And if it goes up just 1% or 2% a year on average (and it could go up a LOT more than that thanks to inflation) your $80k or $100k is yours free and clear. And you put in just $15k to buy it. (That's $10k down payment and $5k closing costs and reserves.)”

“So you turn $15k into $50k, plus get net income in a scenario where there is ZERO appreciation for decades. Highly unlikely…given the major correction is probably more than halfway over (some homes, after all are selling for less than replacement cost, even if you got the land for Free!)”

“Add to that all the money pumping out of DC,” he concludes, “…and the prospect for inflation, including housing inflation, in the next five years or sooner is strong.”

We’ll be going into more detail on Real Estate investing in future A-Letters. But one thing is certainly clear; with the stock market still up for grabs and many other investments still suffering, true Real Estate investment could be one of the best profit opportunities at these levels…one that pays a steady cash-flow and gives you a real, tangible investment for your money. It’s at least worth considering.

Yours in Personal Sovereignty,

Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 10, 2009, 01:14:06 PM
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Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 10, 2009, 01:36:00 PM
Hi,

I am a member of the Soveerign Society which is really promoting a sovereign individual.  They have an entire group that deals with expats and I just got their book about it.  Panama ranks pretty high.  You sound like the type of person that might enjoy their daily newsletter and all they have to offer.  Might want to take a peek at their website, it is very affordable.

Better be careful about taking gold out of the country.  From what I understand if you try to take more than $10,000 in value you have to declare it.  If you do not, then the government just goes ahead and confiscates it.  That is why the Perth Mint Certificates have great potential.  They are not gold, nor are they legal tender.  If you head to Panama, just put the certificates in your briefcase, get to Panama and have them convert it to cash and wire it to Panama for you.  I would suggest you talk with someone who is an expert in that area because I am now convinced that owning gold inside this country is not as safe as it used to be.  Good chance they will have to recall gold to try to stabilize the currency for the following reason.

Also, with the defecit spending, I fear that the day will come like Nazi Germany when we will have to take a wheel barrow full of money to buy food.  The dollar will collapse at some point because we cannot continue printing money and China is not going to take any more of our debt.  That is why one should consider being in gold or a solid foreign currency, out of US dollars. 

regards,
5412

Thanks, I signed up for the newsletter. CMIGS has a great article titled misunderstanding, myths, lies regarding gold confiscation along with laws governing the purchase of gold and what triggers reporting to the IRS. Looks like the double eagle gold coins are the only coins that are not reportable over the $10k threshold. You are correct about that amount of gold one can take out of the country.

Panama does not allow US citizens to open a bank account there unless you go thru an attorney who draws up legal document classying you as an entity. After that, it is my understanding that you can fund the account with cash or wire transfers.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 10, 2009, 01:39:46 PM
error
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: rich_t on May 10, 2009, 05:49:58 PM
Quote
I can see the day coming when they have a wealth tax, much like a personal property tax where the federal government just takes some of your money because you are rich and greedy and do not pay your fair share.

Howdy 5412,

I can easily see this happening under the current regime.  Based on your own experience and personal opinion what $ amount do you think they might use as a confiscation starting point?  Anyone with $500k, $250k, $100k etc. in 401k, IRA or other retirement accounts.

Additionally do you think they will also target non-retirement investments like mutual funds and stock/bond holdings?

I can see them doing all of the above.  I can also see them stealing from anyone with $500k or above in any type of retirement/investment accounts.

I mean let's face it, the government has already removed many investment and savings incentives with capital gains taxes and the like, so it won't be much of a stretch for them to take the next step... all in the name of the so called "common good".

If the current president is willing to impose a windfall profit tax on companies (like he proposed on the campaign trail), the next step to impose a wealth tax on we "rich" people might suit his socialist agenda very nicely.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: RobJohnson on May 10, 2009, 06:28:29 PM
I have to admit that I too, am getting scared.

As many of you know, I am a Realtor, and besides selling property, I also do what's called Broker Price Opinions for a variety of major lenders through a third party company.

I do either a "drive by" or an interior. Both are pretty self-explanatory. I take exterior pictures of the house and street and with an interior, I also take interior pictures of each room and any damage.

The report consists of current market conditions for the subject's designated mls area, and comparing the property with 3 currently listed properties and 3 sold properties. All 6 comps must meet certain criteria in appropriate comparison....age, style (ranch, 2 story, cape cod, etc), GLA (gross living area-heated, cooled and finished space above ground level), lot size, condition and proximity within .5m urban, 1m suburban, 3m rural. Solds must be within the last 180 days, though many lenders are switching to within 90 days and that the lists/solds cannot have been on the market more than 90 days.

It is becoming more and more difficult to find solds within the comp criteria, particularly in homes over $200,000.

It used to be that based on market data, an agent could price a house to sell within 90 days...fairly easily.

This is no longer the case. There is no way to predict these days.

The end of April ended the moratorium on foreclosures. I've already had 12 reports this month. I have 11 listings, several that should be swamped with showings, and can't even get phone calls on them.

I received a monthly report yesterday from my local Association of Realtors. In it was a letter written by the president of the National Association of Realtors to the President, Geithner, and a few others... telling them that while the banks may have gotten TARP money...it isn't filtering into the housing market.

The housing market has to be saved!!!

It isn't just for the homeowners...it's the entire industry and how it ripples out into many other industries.

This is no longer a question of people who bought houses above what they could afford in real life not on paper, it's about people who have lost their jobs because of the economy and no longer have an income to pay for their mortgages! Banks need to work with these people to help them through the crisis and give them time to find a job, reduce their interest rate, and figure out a way to help them stay in their homes.

There are not enough liquid buyers out there to buy all these homes that are going into foreclosure!

I have a foreclosure that listed at $219,900 and been on the market almost 30 days. The first showing on the property was the other day. They wrote an offer to close in 2 WEEKS! for $192,000. Bank countered at $215,000. Buyers walked. There are 7 other houses on the market in that subdivision!

What is causing all these properties to devalue is that there are too many properties going into foreclosure, short sales, people who are "dumping" their properties on the market below market value to get out before they are foreclosed on, and an oversaturation of the market.

When you have a $!50,000 home, in good condition, and you are comparable to you neighborhood....3 houses go on the market. One is a foreclosure, one is a resale with a motivated seller, and one is facing foreclosure so the bank allows a "short" sale and all of these houses sell for a lower than "normal" amount....it brings the SELLING VALUE of the $150,000 house down to "match" up with the others. 

What all these brilliant economists are not taking into account on this housing crisis...is that if that $150,000 house burned to the ground....IT COULD NOT BE REPLACED FOR $150,000!!!!! The replacement value is going to be higher because of material and labor costs!

As long as the banks are being closed-fisted with their money, raising credit card usage rates, not giving out business loans....the economy is going to continue to tank because people are going to become more and more tight with their own money and only buy necessities.

Damn government would have been better off handing out money to each individual in the country to let them go out and spend it...demand would increase and supply would have to increase to meet the demand and jobs would have to be kept/created to provide the supply to the consumer.

It's basic economics....doesn't require a PhD to know....WE all learned it in high school.  :thatsright:





The bank bailouts were a bad idea from the start, and alot of people are finally starting to see this.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 10, 2009, 07:39:23 PM
Howdy 5412,

I can easily see this happening under the current regime.  Based on your own experience and personal opinion what $ amount do you think they might use as a confiscation starting point?  Anyone with $500k, $250k, $100k etc. in 401k, IRA or other retirement accounts.

Additionally do you think they will also target non-retirement investments like mutual funds and stock/bond holdings?

I can see them doing all of the above.  I can also see them stealing from anyone with $500k or above in any type of retirement/investment accounts.

I mean let's face it, the government has already removed many investment and savings incentives with capital gains taxes and the like, so it won't be much of a stretch for them to take the next step... all in the name of the so called "common good".

If the current president is willing to impose a windfall profit tax on companies (like he proposed on the campaign trail), the next step to impose a wealth tax on we "rich" people might suit his socialist agenda very nicely.


Hi Rich,

Really my opinion is somewhat of a guess.  Let me use an analogy for a moment.  In Ireland most folks who are wealthy do not want to publically display evidence of their wealth.  This probably goes back well into the history of the country because the "tax man" would visit them each year and they would be taxed on their wealth.  As a result they tried to hide their wealth....

Now our creative idiots in Washington could probably go two different ways.  They could easily apply a tax on your bank accounts, brokerage accounts, etc. much like a personal property tax.  The state of Florida does that and all but IRA money and money invested in FL municipal bonds is included in the amount to be taxed.  Now this is a tax that just keeps on giving and giving and giving much like the Eveready battery.  The federal government could impose such a tax, require the banks and brokerage houses to pay it and then you would file with the money already being withheld.  Of course they would start small like they did with the income tax which was never, ever to exceed 3%.  Either that or they would set rate adjustments like they do in our income tax rates so they get you big time when you earn it and again when you hold and invest it.  Over time they would likely raise the rate, plus add other investments like IRA's etc to their coverage.  I can see the day where they tax all investments other than those invested in US government bonds or something in order to get us, the public, to finance their deficit spending.

Or, as you mention, there is a possibility of a windfall profit tax or some such item.  What they realize is their is billions of dollars in IRA's, 401K's all over the country.  If they try to go after that, millions of Americans will just cash out, pay their federal income taxes on the money as I did when I rolled my traditional IRA into a Roth.  Personally I think there is a big chance they would make a mistake here because they likely would try to "attach" IRA's over a million dollars or something.  That is the traditional rhetoric about the rich, greedy millionaires, same old, same old to justify their confiscation.  Their mistake will be that there are a whole lot more people with a million or more in their IRA's than they probably imagine and that will really cause a political backlash.

Depending on your age, the quicker you can get your 401K, or traditional IRA into a Roth, the better.  It has to be in a Roth over five years, plus you have to be older than 59 1/2 before you can take it out of your Roth without penalty.  I am holding my breath, keeping my fingers crossed, because in January 2011 I am home free.  Anytime I want after that date I can liquidate my Roth without taxes or penalties.  If I liquidate now it will cost me another 10%.....and that is after I already paid 35% taxes when I rolled it from my traditional IRA.

And finally, the real kicker is this.  We are one of, I believe, three countries in the world that has a death tax.  All they have to do is impose a huge inheritence tax starting at a million or so and they can, over time, confiscate most of the wealth in this counrty.  In the process of course they will probably really hurt 2/3 of the small businesses because they likely have to sell to pay the damn taxes.  It will also kill a good number of the family farms that still exist in this country.

Personally I think we have several items to be concerned about, high taxes, confiscation, and a dollar that goes the way of the Mexican peso.  That is why hundreds of millions of dollars are being sent offshore right now.  People are still paying their taxes to the government on the investment income but it is not accessable to the government, nor is it denominated in US dollars.  The idea that folks are trying to "evade" taxes is probably more BS than truth, they really are just putting their money where our government cannot get their hands on it.....in non-US dollar denominated investments.  When the currency goes the way of the peso, one of the things governments do is make it illegal to take their money out of the country.  Argentina and Brazil have both done that in recent history.  That means Toyota, etc. can make tons of money in the US but they cannot take the money out.  Sounds cool but the citizens get really screwed when the dollar becomes worth zilch on the world market.

Bottom line now is diversification.  You want to hedge against inflation.  Remember it is your money despite the fact the government thinks it is theirs and you are only the temporary custodian.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 10, 2009, 07:42:20 PM
Thanks, I signed up for the newsletter. CMIGS has a great article titled misunderstanding, myths, lies regarding gold confiscation along with laws governing the purchase of gold and what triggers reporting to the IRS. Looks like the double eagle gold coins are the only coins that are not reportable over the $10k threshold. You are correct about that amount of gold one can take out of the country.

Panama does not allow US citizens to open a bank account there unless you go thru an attorney who draws up legal document classying you as an entity. After that, it is my understanding that you can fund the account with cash or wire transfers.

Hi,

Glad to hear you joined up.  You will see articles and references about a company titled "Asset Strategies International".  Call one of the folks there and you will find them to be very knowledgable on the subject and they are very patient as they educate us.  I deal with both Rich and Glen......they are good folks.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: rich_t on May 10, 2009, 07:56:22 PM
Thanks, I signed up for the newsletter. CMIGS has a great article titled misunderstanding, myths, lies regarding gold confiscation along with laws governing the purchase of gold and what triggers reporting to the IRS. Looks like the double eagle gold coins are the only coins that are not reportable over the $10k threshold. You are correct about that amount of gold one can take out of the country.

Panama does not allow US citizens to open a bank account there unless you go thru an attorney who draws up legal document classying you as an entity. After that, it is my understanding that you can fund the account with cash or wire transfers.

I signed up today as well.  Why not?  I'm already a US military veteran and therefore considerd a possible US terrorist according to DHS.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: rich_t on May 10, 2009, 08:10:14 PM
BTW,

I can recommend a fictional book written by James Wesley, Rawles that tells a pretty good story concerning a ecomomic collaspe in the US.  It is titled Patriots; surviving the coming collapse.

I read it several years ago, and it seems pretty relevant now the way things are going.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Chris_ on May 10, 2009, 11:48:42 PM
If you want to hear piss scared folks, read my situation.

By decree of Lord Zero, I haven't worked since the end of January.  Just prior to that, my was was in the accident, and much of what we'd been able to put together in savings was gobbled up with that wonderful trial and tribulation.

Every employer I talk to these days is scared:  they know that it's only a matter of time before the economy breaks south, and the only question left in their minds is "how great will be the fall thereof".  And so even with the reputation in my field that I have, everybody that has a chair is holding on to it for dear life.  So getting hired on anywhere is getting harder and harder.

So what is my plan?  What are my options?  Well folks, I've got a nice little island on National Forest land chosen as the target destination for OpPlan 'BugOut'.  My family and I already enjoy roughing it, and we have what we need loaded aboard our sailboat, ready to go on about 48 hours notice for an extended "camping trip" in the boonies.

I'm hoping it doesn't come to that extreme, but I'm also looking forward to the possibilities that open up from shedding most of the trappings of civilization.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 11, 2009, 04:41:13 PM
Howdy 5412,

I can easily see this happening under the current regime.  Based on your own experience and personal opinion what $ amount do you think they might use as a confiscation starting point?  Anyone with $500k, $250k, $100k etc. in 401k, IRA or other retirement accounts.

Additionally do you think they will also target non-retirement investments like mutual funds and stock/bond holdings?

I can see them doing all of the above.  I can also see them stealing from anyone with $500k or above in any type of retirement/investment accounts.

I mean let's face it, the government has already removed many investment and savings incentives with capital gains taxes and the like, so it won't be much of a stretch for them to take the next step... all in the name of the so called "common good".

If the current president is willing to impose a windfall profit tax on companies (like he proposed on the campaign trail), the next step to impose a wealth tax on we "rich" people might suit his socialist agenda very nicely.

Hi again,

As a follow up to your question of what might happen.  I just saw a blurb go on the bottom line on the Fox news channel.  The administration wants to raise $600+ billion to fund the national health reserve fund.  They plan to tax wealthy estates, and individuals $60 billion per year to fund this program.

In other words, they will not only tax your income, they are going to find a way to tax what you have accumulated, plus take the money back from you when you die.

Getting uglier by the day,

5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 11, 2009, 05:07:55 PM
Hi again,

As a follow up to your question of what might happen.  I just saw a blurb go on the bottom line on the Fox news channel.  The administration wants to raise $600+ billion to fund the national health reserve fund.  They plan to tax wealthy estates, and individuals $60 billion per year to fund this program.

In other words, they will not only tax your income, they are going to find a way to tax what you have accumulated, plus take the money back from you when you die.

Getting uglier by the day,

5412

In the future, I look for a lot of reversals and outright theft by the Democraps/Obama's tax policies. For example, the lowering of the inheritance tax rate and lowering capital gains threshold amount on your home. I have a good mind to sell my house. What scares the living crap out of me is that Obama might be eyeing the trillions of dollars in civil service and private retirement accounts. Putting IOU's in there like the Feds do for SS would be a disaster for us savers. 
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 11, 2009, 07:52:18 PM
In the future, I look for a lot of reversals and outright theft by the Democraps/Obama's tax policies. For example, the lowering of the inheritance tax rate and lowering capital gains threshold amount on your home. I have a good mind to sell my house. What scares the living crap out of me is that Obama might be eyeing the trillions of dollars in civil service and private retirement accounts. Putting IOU's in there like the Feds do for SS would be a disaster for us savers. 

Hi,

I can appreciate your concern.  My guess is he would go after private money first because he can get his hands on it by playing one economic group against another.  Would be a hard sell for those who have state pensions.

One way or another, it is absolutely clear that he really is doing all he can to transfer wealth from the evil, rich, greedy white man just like Jeramiah told him to do.

Saw on Beck tonight that 80% of the republicans are now afraid of big government, whereas the democrats have a much lower number and are more afraid of big business.  The pole was interesting to me because it looks like BO is uniting and mobilizing the republicans.......we are ripe for a Gingrich type conservative to step up.    God I hope so and soon......

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Carl on May 11, 2009, 08:11:46 PM
Hi,

I can appreciate your concern.  My guess is he would go after private money first because he can get his hands on it by playing one economic group against another.  Would be a hard sell for those who have state pensions.

One way or another, it is absolutely clear that he really is doing all he can to transfer wealth from the evil, rich, greedy white man just like Jeramiah told him to do.

Saw on Beck tonight that 80% of the republicans are now afraid of big government, whereas the democrats have a much lower number and are more afraid of big business.  The pole was interesting to me because it looks like BO is uniting and mobilizing the republicans.......we are ripe for a Gingrich type conservative to step up.    God I hope so and soon......

regards,
5412


I am going on 45 and most that I know my age or a bit younger believe that....


Now my circle of aquaintences doesn`t amount to much of anything so hardly representative I expect but if it is somewhat the norm then it would be an easy "sell" to promise a retirement program but would require voluntarily surrendering existing 401K or IRA funds.

You will be given a choice to opt out but if all that money was removed from the financial sector what would be left would be a pitience.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 11, 2009, 09:15:48 PM
I am going on 45 and most that I know my age or a bit younger believe that....

  • There will be no Social Security
  • They will never be able to retire

Now my circle of aquaintences doesn`t amount to much of anything so hardly representative I expect but if it is somewhat the norm then it would be an easy "sell" to promise a retirement program but would require voluntarily surrendering existing 401K or IRA funds.

You will be given a choice to opt out but if all that money was removed from the financial sector what would be left would be a pitience.

Hi,

The original idea that was floated was to confiscate all the IRA and 401K money and replace it with government IOU's.  To INDUCE fools to go along the government would make you whole on the investment losses and guarantee something like 3% interest.

I fear your peer groups fears are correct.  First of all can you imagine what that would do to the stock market, there would be no investment capital......and the government would basically be buying all the stock in the investment accounts with IOU's......so they would own everything....kinda sounds like communism to me.

Second thing they would do is print money to cover all this because all the countries in the world could not lend us enough to cover the deal.  The dollar then goes the way of the peso and you get your 3% guaranteed but your retirement fund is worth zilch as far as buying power goes.

Good Lord, I hope I am wrong, I have children your age who are working their collective asses off just to stay afloat.  The standard of living our generation enjoyed will disappear from the face of the earth.

You may want to go to the politics thread and take a look at the post I did about Maslow, etc. it is totally related to what I fear is going on.

As you have seen me post before, I am getting as much money out of this country and denominated in other currencies as I feel I can afford.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: rich_t on May 12, 2009, 02:53:43 PM
I am going on 45 and most that I know my age or a bit younger believe that....

  • There will be no Social Security
  • They will never be able to retire

Now my circle of aquaintences doesn`t amount to much of anything so hardly representative I expect but if it is somewhat the norm then it would be an easy "sell" to promise a retirement program but would require voluntarily surrendering existing 401K or IRA funds.

You will be given a choice to opt out but if all that money was removed from the financial sector what would be left would be a pitience.

I'm 43 and all of my associates around our age feel the same way you do.  I know I do.  I heard on Rush today that medicare is expected to be bankrupt in 2017 and SS by 2037.

Not that I think there is any actual money still in the SS fund to begin with.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 12, 2009, 03:27:41 PM
I'm 43 and all of my associates around our age feel the same way you do.  I know I do.  I heard on Rush today that medicare is expected to be bankrupt in 2017 and SS by 2037.

Not that I think there is any actual money still in the SS fund to begin with.

Yahoo Finance has a good article on how the recession is hitting SS and medicare. Medicare looks to be in worse shape. Looks like Medicare taxes will have to more than double to around 7%, hospitals and doctors will have to charge less and patients will receive less care. At my age, 5 star health care is my #1 priority. The government screws that up, and I am out of this country.   
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: 5412 on May 12, 2009, 05:08:16 PM
I'm 43 and all of my associates around our age feel the same way you do.  I know I do.  I heard on Rush today that medicare is expected to be bankrupt in 2017 and SS by 2037.

Not that I think there is any actual money still in the SS fund to begin with.

Hi,

This came in today.  Seems that your social security likely will disappear if they get their way.  They will call it something else and fund it by stealing your IRA and 401K.  The idea that the damn government can handle your money better than you can is nauseating.......

regards,
5412



Who Wants to Confiscate Your 401(k) and IRA?
By Bob Livingston • May 11th, 2009 • Category: Bob Livingston, Government, Personal Liberty Articles, Wealth
 
If you’re like most people who are planning for retirement you have been socking away your money in an Individual Retirement Account (IRA) or 401(k) plan.

And when the Dow Jones Industrial Average reached 14,198.10 on Oct. 11, 2007, you thought you were set. The Dow was running up. Your retirement funds were growing. Everything looked good.

Then stocks began a downward slide that turned into a cliff dive by the following spring as the full extent of the financial crisis came to light. To make matters worse, the market then showed what it thought of the efforts of Congress and the President (both Bush and Obama) to stem the crisis—it tanked.

Fast forward to March 6, 2009. Stocks hit their lows and your retirement funds had dropped by 40 percent to 60 percent.

Now your retirement years no longer look quite so rosy. You’re thinking you may have to work an additional 10 years just to build that nest egg back to October 2007 levels.

Well, don’t fret, help is on the way. The same entity that’s done such a great job of managing Social Security may soon be managing your personal retirement plan.

Congressional Democrats have been holding hearings to decide what to do to help Americans prepare for retirement. Their conclusions: It might be a good thing for the government to eliminate tax breaks for 401(k)s, IRAs and similar retirement accounts, confiscate them and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRA) managed by the Social Security Administration (SSA).

Now unions are joining the bandwagon. Ross Eisenbrey, vice president of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), was quoted in a union publication saying that he supports a plan to centralize all retirement plans for American workers. His plan includes private 401(k)s and IRAs.

What he wants is for the government to confiscate your private retirement plan and set up a government pension system for everyone similar to the European system. And as is usual with grand government schemes nowadays, individual choice no longer applies.

The SEIU, by the way, is one of the nation’s largest labor unions and it invested heavily in getting President Barack Obama elected. Plus, the union is working with the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute and the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare on the plan.

In other words, the SEIU carries a lot of clout with this President and Democrat-controlled Congress.

But the SSA hasn’t done such a great job managing Social Security. According to the Congressional Budget Office, Social Security outlays will exceed revenue in 2019, and Social Security funds will be exhausted in 2049.

So, for a 20-year-old just entering the job market who will pay into the system for 40 to 45 years, there is no hope of recovering that money when he or she retires.

There is currently no bill in committee or before Congress to set up a GRA. But the fact that it’s being discussed in committees and pushed by Big Labor should be enough to frighten you.

It’s time to consider, if you haven’t already, your financial plans for your retirement years—whether you are 20, 70 or somewhere in between. Is it time to cash it out? That’s for you to decide along with a tax or financial advisor, as the penalties for early withdrawal are oppressive.

Regardless, as the Federal Reserve prints dollar upon dollar to fund its economic stimulus Ponzi schemes, gold as an investment looks better and better.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: rich_t on May 13, 2009, 12:07:08 PM
I don't know how that would stand up to the lawsuits that would surely follow, but it is scary as hell that some jackasses in congress are even talking about it.

On the other hand, it would be one step closer to the revolution that this country so desperately needs to restore us the the Constitutional Republic that our founding fathers fought and died to provide us.
Title: Re: I am getting really frustrated and scared frankly
Post by: Lacarnut on May 13, 2009, 12:29:59 PM
I don't know how that would stand up to the lawsuits that would surely follow, but it is scary as hell that some jackasses in congress are even talking about it.

On the other hand, it would be one step closer to the revolution that this country so desperately needs to restore us the the Constitutional Republic that our founding fathers fought and died to provide us.

I do not see how that could happen unless the government confiscates a private company's retirement account that they have a 85% ownership in like AIG. I think private companies are very gun shy of taking any money by the Feds now. The Feds are even telling the states what they can and can not do with the stimulus money.

States like CA and NY are in very bad shape financially. So if the government bails them out, I could see them raiding the pension fund as a condition for the bailout. Put an IOU in there and take the trillions out and put it in the Treasury. Those two states have union civil service workers so I might be worrying for nothing since I live in a right to work state that's workers are not unionized.