Author Topic: Luminous animal getting rabid.  (Read 871 times)

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Offline Carl

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Luminous animal getting rabid.
« on: February 01, 2012, 05:07:58 PM »
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002249667


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SunsetDreams (5,100 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

 
Why OWS Needs to Denounce Violent Tactics on Display at Occupy Oakland
 


Why #OWS Needs to Denounce Violent Tactics on Display at Occupy Oakland
Occupy is not an armed conflict – it's a PR war. And images of violence undermine the movement.

The Occupy Movement, “the 99 percent,” has, ironically, been hijacked by a small minority within its ranks. I speak of a small percentage of Occupiers who are okay with property destruction. As we saw in Oakland over the weekend: They’re okay with breaking windows, trashing city buildings and throwing bottles at the police. In short: They are not nonviolent. They are willing to commit petty criminal acts masked as a political statement.

Here’s the key point: Occupy is not an armed conflict – it’s a PR war. Nonviolent struggle is a PR war. Gandhi had embedded journalists on his Salt March. He wasn’t a saint. That was a consciously cultivated media image. He used the press and its power to gain sympathy for his cause. What he didn’t do is say he was nonviolent “unless the cops are d*cks,” a sentiment voiced at Occupy. Nonviolent struggle has nothing to do with how the cops react. In actual nonviolent movements they welcome police overreaction because it helps the cause they’re fighting for.

(snip)

Violent tactics taint everyone involved evenly – consenting or not.

Property destruction is not only a bad PR move (it costs taxpayers and small business owners money) it’s not constitutionally protected Free Speech. It’s also not what democracy looks like. The First Amendment specifically states the right to peaceably assemble to redress grievances.

Moreover the destruction of property is exactly what Occupy is protesting against; it’s what the banks took from us. Occupy has pointed out the criminality of the banks and the seeming collusion with government to take wealth and property away from working people and give it to the wealthy. So protest property crimes, by committing crimes against property? It's nonsensical.


More here: http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153954/why_%23ows_needs_to_denounce_violent_tactics_on_display_at_occupy_oakland/#disqus_thread

some pictures of the flag burning and graffiti as well

Excellent Article!

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
1. FYI, burning a flag is not violence. As for denouncing violence, OWS has over and over again.

Thank you for your concern.

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
9. You are welcome to thank her on my behalf. I find her concern over a piece of cloth...

rather than for human beings life and liberty, a 1% pettiness. I find her ignorance of the PEACEFULNESS of 99.99% of those protesting willful ignorance.

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
13. I read it. It ignores the thousand who protested PEACEFULLY. It ignores the 100s arrested

for protesting PEACEFULLY, and pretends that OWS in every GA and in every protest planning and during every protest asserts ad nauseum does not emphasize that this is a PEACEFUL movement. The onus is on the .001% who choose to ignore one of the main messages of this movement to include the vast majority and articulate their plight. And the some odd % who choose to concentrate on that .001% are serving the interests of the 1%

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
5. 10s of thousands have been attacked by the police. Hundreds beaten. Thousands arrested.

Apparently, the 1% has a lot more friends on this board over a piece of cloth.

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
11. That the cloth is a symbol does not negate that it is a piece of cloth. That the hue & cry over this

piece of cloth over the past 3 days far out numbers the hue & cry over the very real brutality against human beings that was happening concurrently is telling. That people are not posting numerous protests about the fact that 400 of our fellow human beings were arrested for PEACEFULLY protesting reveals that the inconsequential actions of a few dozen are of more importance than the loss of liberty of hundreds.

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
17. They didn't break into City Hall. They walked in the door was unlocked. And where is the

concern for the millions upon millions spent on police actions against PEACEFUL protesters that surely cost the taxpayers 99.99% more than the City Hall vandalism.

Why the need to endanger PEACEFUL protesters life and liberty that cost the 99% money in tax payer dollars?

Thousands protested in Oakland. 400 PEACEFUL protesters were kettled. They were kettled and many of those up against the wall of the YMCA building a were so brutalized with police batons that people inside the YMCA witnessing that brutality opened up the doors to offer the protesters sanctuary.

Yes. Those 400 were peacefully protesting.


This focus on several dozen who burned a flag while downplaying the full force of the state with all it's weapon being brought to force against your fellow citizens is the focus of the 1%.

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
28. No. A crowbar was not used on a fire escape door. Even Jean Quan couldn't present that evidence...

and first it was reported that protesters had used a crowbar on the front door. When it was clear from the video evidence that no such thing had happened, they changed their story to the fire escape door.

Nobody is justifying destruction of property. I will put it into perspective about all the hand wringing of what it costs the tax payers. The couple of thousand that it will cost the taxpayers to clean up City Hall is a drop on the bucket compared to the estimated 58 million that it has cost the city to suppress OWS Oakland thus far. 58 million that has been PURPOSELY spent to destroy a people's movement. And yes, those 400 people out of several 1000 were peacefully protesting. They were marching. The cops kettled them. They drove a few up against the wall of the YMCA and started beating them with their batons. Their brutality was so appalling to those who witnessed it from inside the YMCA, that those inside opened up the doors to offer the protesters sanctuary.

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
12. Burning a flag is not violence. Arresting hundreds of peaceful protesters is brutality.

The police have NEVER given way to the interests of the 99%. They are now, as they have always been, the enemies of the 99%.

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Luminous Animal (12,972 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
29. And taking away a human beings liberty for exercising their Constitutional rights

is not destruction?

I put people over property any day. Any day. From my point of view, by decrying the actions of a few dozen while ignoring the point of thousands is playing into the hands of the 1%.

A few others pick up the mantle of wild eyed,spit flying crazy.

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TheMastersNemesis (129 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
16. Just Plain Bull

The Oakland cops are just a bunch of RW PIGS. They are protecting the kind of politicians who would rob them of their pensions and give them a 401 K. I went to Veitnam. And we were treated like scum when we cam back and the same vets from Iraq were treated like scum. The American people are great at talk but abandon vets as soon as they come home. I am sick of all of this phony flag waving patriotism. The American people are just plain stupid who vote for any scumbag Republican. And there are some Democrats who are no better. Wait and see what happens to these cops when that asshole Romney privatizes them.

This situation stinks like a dead fish. It was set up. The police attacked and left no exit. And did not order them to disperse. As a veteran screw all you phony patriots. I wonder how many of you leeches ever served. Put you money where you mouth is and enlist if you are so damned smart. I am just plain sick of you. I support OWS.

We are a ship of fools. If I could go back in time I might just burn my draft card.

A poor attempt at moling.

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rhett o rick (19,742 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
20. The article and the OP are aimed at discrediting OWS.

 OWS does not condone violence and vandalism. To try to paint the thousands of non-violent OWS members around the world because of a few miscreants is shameful here in DU. OWS has time and time again run the violent out of their ranks. But there are those that only want to see OWS dissolve. I understand the agenda of Fox News and the corporate-media, but why would Democrats here in DU be so determined to destroy OWS?

Funny how it always happens though.

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Scootaloo (175 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
36. Did you know not everyone enjoys the luxury of wagging fingers?


Last edited Wed Feb 1, 2012, 01:45 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Know why people are getting violent? Decade after decade after decade of being shit on, followed by being brutalized whenever you dare to speak up.

How very nice that all of us have the luxury, and the self-granted authority to say "don't be mad, bro. Don't hit back. It makes ME look bad! **** you, think about my image, and what you're doing to ME!"

I'm sorry people, but Occupy IS an armed conflict - it's being attacked by men with weapons, chemical arsenals, vehicles, armor, and unlimited authority over your life and limbs. And contrary to the well-wishers, these men are NOT going to lay down their batons in shame, if only you take enough of them being rammed up your ass.

The Author brings up a point - Gandhi had journalists with him on his salt march. Where are ours? Where is the sympathetic media for OWS? Where are the muckrakers, the story-breakers, the shit-shakers? Where is the representation of the Occupy point of view? This was, frankly, a luxury that Gandhi had that we no longer have. Really? it's a PR move? PR disseminated by who? By the media outlets that are owned and beholden to in total to the people you are speaking against. 3,000 people not breaking windows will become 3,000 people setting cars on ****ing fire. Or perhaps it'll be "three people marched today." You cannot rely on bought-and-paid operatives.

So what now, the people in Oakland "don't count" because they kicked some shit back? They get disowned? Oh, I'm sorry. The term the author uses is actually purged.

THOSE PEOPLE need to be purged

Because they "made me look bad."

Maybe rather than beating your breasts in self-righteous, "look at me I'm so mother****ing Gandhi right now" indignation and calling for everyone in occupy to drop what they're doing and waggle their fingers at the very very naughty people of Oakland, and then, you know, excommunicating them entirely, maybe some consideration should be given to why this happened in the first ****ing place.

Am I saying everyone should go out and, ahem, "stab a cop?" Of course not. I'm saying that it's really nice to have the privilege to tell brutalized people to not defend themselves. It's nice to have the authority to tell the victims of theft to respect the property of the thieves. Must be nice, is all.

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Odin2005 (41,057 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
40. That graffitti is obviously agent provocateur BS.

Way to stereotyped to be real.

 :yawn:

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JackRiddler (18,050 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
56. The violence was by the police. Flag burning and property destruction are not violence.

Even if you don't like them.

Your concern is noted - as being in clear hostility to Occupy.

You want to see it divided and arguing about bullshit.

While the authorities are rolling up everyone's constitutional rights into a body bag.

I am truly glad you demented,half witted lunatics have come out in the open so more and more decent Americans can see exactly what vile and vicious pieces of shit you all are.
There is not one person they would not have killed if they could do it to get their free stuff.
Literally animals.

Offline Skul

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Re: Luminous animal getting rabid.
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 06:04:52 PM »
What a sanctimonious lying little twit. :bird:
Then-Chief Justice John Marshall observed, “Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos.”

John Adams warned in a letter, “Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”

Offline BEG

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Re: Luminous animal getting rabid.
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 06:13:10 PM »
...and there goes Gandhi under the bus.

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Luminous animal getting rabid.
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 06:57:03 PM »
Where do I sign up to be a pro-vaca-tour? :-)
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline Duke Nukum

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Re: Luminous animal getting rabid.
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 07:33:34 PM »
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JackRiddler (18,050 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
56. The violence was by the police. Flag burning and property destruction are not violence.

Wait...What?!
“A man who has been through bitter experiences and travelled far enjoys even his sufferings after a time”
― Homer, The Odyssey

Offline JohnnyReb

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Re: Luminous animal getting rabid.
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 04:48:48 AM »

JackRiddler (18,050 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore
56. The violence was by the police. Flag burning and property destruction are not violence.


Wait...What?!

DUmmie was raised in the projects where destruction of property was a requirement for continued occupancy.
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

"America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality, and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within."  Stalin

Offline diesel driver

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Re: Luminous animal getting rabid.
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 05:13:08 AM »
Where do I sign up to be a pro-vaca-tour? :-)

Tour? 

Nobody said nothing about no tour!   :lmao:
Murphy's 3rd Law:  "You can't make anything 'idiot DUmmie proof'.  The world will just create a better idiot DUmmie."

Liberals are like Slinkys.  Basically useless, but they do bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs...
 
Global warming supporters believe that a few hundred million tons of CO2 has more control over our climate than a million mile in diameter, unshielded thermo-nuclear fusion reactor at the middle of the solar system.

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Offline Karin

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Re: Luminous animal getting rabid.
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 08:39:10 AM »
I see one of their favorite words now is "brutality."  Sabrina was going on and on and on the other day about  some pregnant woman being "brutalized."  Sabrina, it's just a tumor, it's just a parasite, what's the big deal? 

I'm happy to see the DUmmies digging in their heels on this whole thing.  Refusing to believe that OWS can do no wrong.  Defending the indefensible, in all the countless instances.  The Face of the Democrat Party.