Author Topic: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1  (Read 2036 times)

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Offline SVPete

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2021, 06:56:03 AM »
I've been over this in my head more than a few times, but I simply can't get past one thing. Now this is just a personal opinion, mind you, but I consider it valid.
If I were "acting" in this capacity and was handed a gun, there is no way in sam hell I would point it at another human and pull the trigger unless I had done the check on it MYSELF. I mean, I even get a little itchy watching people point toy guns at others. It's just burned into my brain so deep..  and even after I checked and was sure the gun was loaded with simple blanks, I would still be real hesitant to do it. It makes me extremely uncomfortable just thinking about it. Maybe he's not allowed to open it up and look? I dunno man, but I'd never trust another person at that level, I have to see it for myself or I'm not doing it.
I know it's part of the job, but I still believe Baldwin carries some of the burden here. Rumor is also flying that they he was just assing around with the gun when it happened. I've no idea how true any of that is.

As usual, info is dribbling out. Baldwin was the producer of the movies. Thus he was responsible for proper staffing and organization. Some of the union people walked off the set just hours before the shooting, citing safety problems. I'm wary of union people claims, but evidently there were accidents with prop guns three times prior to the shooting. So their dafety concerns seem to have been real, and then there's the shooting.

As producer, Baldwin "owns" the hiring of the armorers, even if he did not choose whom to hire directly. As producer, Baldwin was responsible for not firing the armorers after each accident, three distinct failures. As producer, Baldwin was responsible for making sure proper safety training was done, and followed. Apparently some safety training was done, but reports I've seen indicate that Baldwin, personally, was careless. And the three prior accidents are evidence that carelessness on the set was pervasive.

As for your point, Baldwin probably didn't have the knowledge to do the check, if the gun was a semi-auto. BUT as producer, he should have observed what was loaded into that pistol, especially after there having been three prior accidents, and had the pistol marked to avoid confusing it with another prop gun. And if there was more than one similar prop gun, only one should be loaded at a time, unless a scene required otherwise.

The bottom line, IMO (based on what I "know") is that while Baldwin should not be on the hook for a murder or manslaughter charge, he should be for whatever NM calls negligent homicide. As a GoogTube video producer said about a very different context, this killing is like an onion, with multiple layers of failure. Many of those failure layers are Baldwin failing to do his job as producer. Baldwin is an assaholic. Any right choice among several failed choices probably would have prevented this woman's death.
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2021, 07:54:06 AM »


As for your point, Baldwin probably didn't have the knowledge to do the check, if the gun was a semi-auto.

Since this was a "western", I doubt it was a semi-automatic, more likely a six-shooter.

Offline SVPete

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2021, 08:09:01 AM »
Since this was a "western", I doubt it was a semi-automatic, more likely a six-shooter.

Still a degree of skill I would not expect a Hollyweirder to have, :rotf: , due to Hollyweirders' willful ignorance. But if he had that skill he should have checked, and if he didn't he should have supervised the loading, given the previous prop gun accidents.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2021, 09:00:54 AM »
Do they have any good reason for using live ammo on a movie shoot?   I've long thought everything was blanks, never thought about why until reading your post.
Have there been any updates to the story that the gun was loaded with a live round and more importantly why a live round was even used?
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Offline jukin

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2021, 02:22:30 PM »
Blanks can kill at close distance.

Yes very close range in very soft tissue. But there was more distance than against one's head and squib wouldn't have killed much less gone through a person and then into another person. That is one scenario. The other is that Baldwin shot the woman and then pulled the trigger again shooting the man. Seeing as the REAL GUN USED AS A PROP was a single action revolver much intent on Baldwin's part.

Either way he should have never been pointing it at somebody he was not intent on shooting. I have also heard that he said something like "If we have to shoot the scene again I'm going to kill you."
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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2021, 03:28:31 PM »
Have there been any updates to the story that the gun was loaded with a live round and more importantly why a live round was even used?

Reports I've seen have stated when the gun was handed to Baldwin the person told him it was "cold". In the same report it was stated that they were having proplems with the weapons they were using, going off with no trigger pull.
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Offline DLR Pyro

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2021, 04:37:49 PM »
Reports I've seen have stated when the gun was handed to Baldwin the person told him it was "cold". In the same report it was stated that they were having proplems with the weapons they were using, going off with no trigger pull.
If those reports are accurate it shows that nobody on that set had any respect for firearms
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Offline DUmpDiver

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2021, 04:43:24 PM »
Reports I've seen have stated when the gun was handed to Baldwin the person told him it was "cold". In the same report it was stated that they were having proplems with the weapons they were using, going off with no trigger pull.

Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:

I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer?  Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 05:02:23 PM by DUmpDiver »

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2021, 05:19:23 PM »
Actor John Schneider reacts to Alec Baldwin's "prop gun" fatal shooting
https://youtu.be/AM129qTYrKk
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2021, 05:32:09 PM »
Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:

I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer?  Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?

The hammer should have to be manually "cocked", then the trigger pulled for each shot. (I think) That's why two shots being fired seems odd if it were accidental.

Offline SVPete

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2021, 06:12:42 PM »
Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:

I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer?  Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?

There are single- and double-action revolvers. But, yes, a double-action revolver would have to have a full trigger pull for it to fire. I'm not a gun expert of either type, but I've been doing a little learning.
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Offline Ptarmigan

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2021, 09:08:14 PM »
“Corners Were Being Cut”: Baldwin Shooting Already Has The Makings of a Blockbuster Tort Action
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/10/23/corners-were-being-cut-baldwin-shooting-already-has-the-makings-a-blockbuster-tort-action/

Quote
The fatal shooting at Bonanza Creek Ranch already has the makings of a blockbuster tort action. Within 24 hours of actor Alec Baldwin fatally shooting cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounding the director, witnesses have raised serious questions of negligent and unsafe practice on the site for the low-budget film, “Rust.” The question is not whether but when the first torts lawsuit will be filed.  There has already been speculation on the civil and criminal liability in the case, so it may be useful to explore what we know and what it might mean for the likely litigation ahead.

We now know from accounts that the movie set was the source of long-standing complaints over safety and working conditions. The production company allegedly required workers to drive 50 miles a day rather than pay for hotels, according to witnesses. Workers complained that this left them exhausted on the set. The site turns out to be the same location used in past Westerns because of its remote and rugged terrain. (As a Western movie buff, one of the movies stood out as a favorite: The Man From Laramie).

There were as many as three prior accidental discharges of weapons on the set. The conflicts over conditions on the set reportedly led to a demand that union members leave the set at one point.It does not appear that Baldwin knew that a live round or a projectile was in the gun. There are no reports to indicate that this was anything more than an accident, but police cannot operate under that assumption. Given the labor issues on the set, the possibility of an intentional act cannot be discounted. There is also possible criminal exposure for criminal negligence.It is also important to note that a “live weapon” can refer not to only to an actual bullet being put into the gun but some projectile being present. There could have been material in the gun that a blank round then turned into a lethal projectile like a bullet.

There is a question where the lawsuit would be filed. Many of the crew were from California but the set is in New Mexico. The California code contains an ample criminal negligence or manslaughter provision:
PART 1. OF CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS [25 – 680.4]

  ( Part 1 enacted 1872. )

TITLE 8. OF CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON [187 – 248]

Section 192.

Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of three kinds:

(a) Voluntary—upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion.

(b) Involuntary—in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to a felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection. This subdivision shall not apply to acts committed in the driving of a vehicle.

(c) Vehicular—…

New Mexico has a similar provision that allows “involuntary manslaughter” charges for “the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.”

So much corners being cut.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2021, 09:11:17 PM by Ptarmigan »
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Offline landofconfusion80

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2021, 07:50:13 AM »
Does this mean Ted Kennedy now has a fellow soldier in the war against women?
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2021, 08:09:02 AM »
“Corners Were Being Cut”: Baldwin Shooting Already Has The Makings of a Blockbuster Tort Action
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/10/23/corners-were-being-cut-baldwin-shooting-already-has-the-makings-a-blockbuster-tort-action/

So much corners being cut.

The MSM have found their scapegoat, a young inexperienced, female armorer.

Offline SVPete

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2021, 11:55:01 AM »
The MSM have found their scapegoat, a young inexperienced, female armorer.

Be that as it may, Baldwin, as producer, hired her, and retained her despite 3 gun prop accidents. He should have canned her after the first accident.
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Offline jukin

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2021, 12:42:55 PM »
Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:

I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer?  Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?

Revolvers are both single and double action. Since this was set before the civil war and they were being authentic it would have been a single action meaning pull the hammer back, rotating the cylinder, pull the trigger and bang.
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Offline DefiantSix

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2021, 12:48:17 PM »
The MSM have found their scapegoat, a young inexperienced, female armorer.

Must be nice that the buck doesn't stop with the anti-gun (for you and me, anyway) PRODUCER who authorized this series rolling cluster****s in the first place.

A safety culture is established from the TOP, Baldwin. If it were MY project which was allowing untrained imbeciles to continue having "accidents" with "dangerous" tools after the deficiency first reared it's ugly head, I know I'd be pretty damned dispondent about the environment I'd created, Alec. Possibly feel bad enough about it that putting the gun barrel in MY mouth would look like a pretty ...comforting option. (hint hint)

 :fuelfire: :popcorn:
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Offline thundley4

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2021, 01:28:41 PM »
Revolvers are both single and double action. Since this was set before the civil war and they were being authentic it would have been a single action meaning pull the hammer back, rotating the cylinder, pull the trigger and bang.

It seems at least 2 shots were fired if not more. One could be an accident, the second...

Offline landofconfusion80

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2021, 02:50:26 PM »
It seems at least 2 shots were fired if not more. One could be an accident, the second...
rapid fire hammer?
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20. absolute bullshit. the cave is unspeakably vile.

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Offline thundley4

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2021, 03:21:01 PM »
rapid fire hammer?

Or intentional or he tried to fan the hammer.

Offline FunkyZero

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2021, 05:33:58 PM »
rapid fire hammer?

fully automatic revolver

Offline 67 Rover

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2021, 05:55:39 PM »
fully automatic revolver

High capacity weapon of war, 1812 but still a war.  :cheersmate:
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Offline Delmar

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2021, 06:26:52 PM »
Quote
Response to Javaman (Reply #25)Fri Oct 22, 2021, 02:27 PM
Star Member TexasBushwhacker (17,381 posts)
33. They used a non-Union propmaster n/t
Quote
Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #33)Fri Oct 22, 2021, 03:59 PM
Star Member Javaman (58,093 posts)
37. well, and there you have it.

****ing moron. I hope he serves time
.

I guess that lets Baldwin off the hook--in these primitive's minds, anyway.

A young woman, barely dry behind the ears.  Sounds like she didn't know what the hell she was doing.
Quote
Woman in Charge of Guns on Alec Baldwin’s Movie Set Deletes Her Social Media Accounts
Quote
She also considered the work a “pretty sweet gig,” she said. Before starting on Rust, Ms Reed had wrapped shooting on Nicolas Cage’s first Western, The Old Way, which was “also my first time being head armourer, as well,” she told the podcast.

“I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job,” she said of her role on The Old Way, continuing: “Doing it, it went really smoothly.”

She added: “I think loading blanks was the scariest thing to me because I was like ‘oh, I don’t know anything about it”, but explkained that her father helped with her training.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/woman-charge-guns-alec-baldwins-movie-set-deletes-social-media-accounts/

A colossal screw up and Baldwin and this girl are going to swing for it--and probably still more people yet.
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Offline BannedFromDU

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2021, 06:42:53 PM »

     Much better than prison for Baldwin will be the endless legal and insurance hassles he'll face. **** him: he KILLED a woman, and trying to pass off blame to an underling is the most pathetic move yet.

     Think about it: Baldwin murders a woman, and he blames another woman for the murder. What a sackless, pathetic loser moron. Enjoy your depositions, asshole.
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Offline SVPete

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Re: Alec Baldwin goes on shooting spree - shoots 2, murders 1
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2021, 07:12:36 PM »
Baldwin stands a chance of getting zero meaningful consequences, on the criminal side. The armorer may, and she was negligent, criminally, IMO. But her pockets are shallow, and Baldwin’s are DEEP. So his consequences will be from the civil lawsuits side - $$ and time responding.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.