guys who defended the Alamo were defending slavery.

[dutch508]

Star Member Cyrano (13,158 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215964348

So about that "Remember the Alamo" crap

Texas was part of Mexico. Mexico was against slavery. Those guys who defended the Alamo were defending slavery.

Texas won the follow up battle, became a state and joined the Confederacy in the Civil War. The whole Alamo thing was about slavery, cotton and money.

Our history classes and movies taught us so much bullshit that it's hard for misinformed people to know what's true/real and what isn't.

Today, Texas is on the leading edge of American fascism. They're trying to make sure that Democrat's votes don't matter. They're redistricting to ensure that a minority of white racists decide who gets to run Texas and who gets ****ed.

Wake up America. Texas is showing us all what the American Fascist Party is all about.

 

Star Member Biophilic (1,374 posts)

2. Funny how we were never taught soooo much in school.

And what we were taught is complete bunk and propaganda and mis-information. It truly makes my blood boil. I trust those teachers. I suspect some were just as taken in as I was, but I suspect some knew what they were teaching us was bunk or worse. The only reason I have any sympathy for them is because I almost became one of those teachers and I would have taught what I had been taught. Makes my stomach cramp thinking about that.

Star Member hunter (33,914 posts)

8. I had but two K-12 history teachers who didn't teach the usual textbook U.S.A. pablum history.

One doesn't count because my family was not living in the U.S.A. at the time.

My own kids didn't suffer so much of that.

Their high school U.S.A. and World History Advanced Placement teacher was fierce. My kids were not among the lost when they experienced their first university history courses.

 

Star Member hunter (33,914 posts)

7. My pacifist abolitionist ancestors were not into that "Remember the Alamo" crap.

My wife's Native American and Mexican Irish Catholic ancestors, on both sides of the eventual U.S.A. / Mexico border, even less so.

Davy Crockett is dead.

Good.

 

[USA4ME]

So fighting to choose your own destiny rather than to be ruled by an oppressive gov’t is racist and leads to fascism.

OK. 

Is this where they keep going with the “we’re living on stolen land” baloney? Might get them all worked up, but normal people just look at them like they’re screwed up, which they are.

.

[SVPete]

The part does not equal the whole. Like the tax on tea in the American Revolution, slavery was an issue. But as with the American Revolution where the big problem was high-handed Brit governance, Texans' (and at least one other Mexican state, from what I understand) big problem was Lopez de Santa Ana's dictatorial tyranny. Also, it wasn't just people who had moved from the US into Texas who fought against Santa Ana, many were Tejanos born and bred.

The real "pablum history" - just love DUpipo spelling! - is squeezing all the world into a little racism-shaped box.

In the "follow up battle", San Jacinto, the Texans captured Lopez de Santa Ana, who fancied himself the Napoleon of the West . IIRC, he and his army got caught napping, literally, and the rest went poorly. Santa Ana didn't fare that much better a decade or so later, either.

I welcome Texans better versed in the history of that time adding to and/or correcting what I said above.

[Wineslob]

Star Member Biophilic (1,374 posts)

2. Funny how we were never taught soooo much stupid in school.

FIFY

[SVPete]

...

Is this where they keep going with the “we’re living on stolen land” baloney? Might get them all worked up, but normal people just look at them like they’re screwed up, which they are.

Well, if one ignores Indians' frequent wars to take each others' lands, whites stole land rather than just being the most powerful "tribe".

If one ignores the Aztecs' requiring tribute from conquered tribes in the form of some 20,000 a year to rip their hearts out to honor the Aztecs' gods, the Spanish stole their land. BTW, the Aztecs were not alone in practicing human sacrifice among Indians of Central and South America.

If one ignores that the Spanish and Mexicans imposed their own oppression of Indians and mestizos (those of "mixed" Spanish and Indian ancestry), Texans stole Mexican land.

If one ignores that the Spanish and Mexicans imposed their own oppression of Indians and mestizos (those of "mixed" Spanish and Indian ancestry) and that the US paid for the land in gold and/or silver (plus some Mexican debts), the US stole the Southwest US from Mexico.

One must ignore almost all of Western Hemisphere history to believe Progs', "The US is built on stolen land," myth.

[Mr Mannn]

DU Logic: if the dictator is a POC, then whites must quiet down and acquiesce to the utter lack of freedom because racism.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Lots of Mexicans fought alongside the Texans because they were not happy with the Santa Anna dictatorship.

[thundley4]

Lots of Mexicans fought alongside the Texans because they were not happy with the Santa Anna dictatorship.

They were "Tio Juans", right?

[DLR Pyro]

Lots of White-Mexicans fought alongside the Texans because they were not happy with the Santa Anna dictatorship.

fixed to meet the left's agenda

[SVPete]

They were "Tio Juans", right?

O Tío Tomás.

[CollectivismMustDie]

Well, if one ignores Indians' frequent wars to take each others' lands, whites stole land rather than just being the most powerful "tribe".

If one ignores the Aztecs' requiring tribute from conquered tribes in the form of some 20,000 a year to rip their hearts out to honor the Aztecs' gods, the Spanish stole their land. BTW, the Aztecs were not alone in practicing human sacrifice among Indians of Central and South America.

If one ignores that the Spanish and Mexicans imposed their own oppression of Indians and mestizos (those of "mixed" Spanish and Indian ancestry), Texans stole Mexican land.

If one ignores that the Spanish and Mexicans imposed their own oppression of Indians and mestizos (those of "mixed" Spanish and Indian ancestry) and that the US paid for the land in gold and/or silver (plus some Mexican debts), the US stole the Southwest US from Mexico.

One must ignore almost all of Western Hemisphere history to believe Progs', "The US is built on stolen land," myth.

Someone should tell them that native Americans at the time in question when the land was supposedly stolen, had no concept of land ownership.

[Movie buff- The Sequel]

If one ignores the Aztecs' requiring tribute from conquered tribes in the form of some 20,000 a year to rip their hearts out to honor the Aztecs' gods, the Spanish stole their land. BTW, the Aztecs were not alone in practicing human sacrifice among Indians of Central and South America.

1. The Aztecs practiced cannibalism, too. Such a wonderful, advanced culture! A true utopia!
2. It would also be necessary to ignore the fact that a big part of the reason why the Spaniards defeated the Aztecs so easily was because, shortly before open combat began, the Spaniards secretly formed alliances with a lot of the smaller local tribes that had been conquered and enslaved by the Aztecs and were eager for a little payback.

[landofconfusion80]

1. The Aztecs practiced cannibalism, too. Such a wonderful, advanced culture! A true utopia!
2. It would also be necessary to ignore the fact that a big part of the reason why the Spaniards defeated the Aztecs so easily was because, shortly before open combat began, the Spaniards secretly formed alliances with a lot of the smaller local tribes that had been conquered and enslaved by the Aztecs and were eager for a little payback.

Practiced? They were experts. Follow me for more heritage recipes

[Ferrance]

Cyrano and the other DUmmies on that thread are nose deep in some Howard Zinn/ 1619 project bull where only the white man is responsible for all the world's ills. Memo to any lurking mutts, slavery and oppression were a common feature in the world throughout most of history, practiced by people and races of all stripes. It's still happens in parts of the world today, usually in 3rd world hellholes. So why don't you mutts pull your heads out of your collective butts and read something that's not garbage. You might learn a thing or two. 

[SVPete]

1. The Aztecs practiced cannibalism, too. Such a wonderful, advanced culture! A true utopia!
2. It would also be necessary to ignore the fact that a big part of the reason why the Spaniards defeated the Aztecs so easily was because, shortly before open combat began, the Spaniards secretly formed alliances with a lot of the smaller local tribes that had been conquered and enslaved by the Aztecs and were eager for a little payback.

The Mayans and Inca practiced human sacrifice as well, just not (as far as is known) on the extreme scale of the Aztecs.

The other tribes who helped Cortes were tired of sending thousands of their young people every year to have their hearts ripped out of their chests. How do you say "Karma" in Nahuatl?

The Conquistadors were brutal. They were the last generation of warriors in centuries-long Reconquista. War and conquest and plunder was what they knew, their skill. Compared to the people groups they conquered in Central and South Americans, they were mild. And those who followed them, less awful. There were no innocents in the conquest of Central and South America, and while some of the Texans were slave owners, they were less oppressive than Mexico (the start of the Mexican-American War - about a decade later - in California was a revolt against Mexico by Mexicans tired of corrupt and inept Mexican misgovernance). There were few or no innocents in the Texas War of Independence, but compare 19th, 20th, and 21st Centuries' Texas to Mexico of those same time frames.

[enslaved1]

Star Member Cyrano (13,158 posts)
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215964348

So about that "Remember the Alamo" crap

Texas was part of Mexico. Mexico was against slavery. Those guys who defended the Alamo were defending slavery.

Just reaching this point in my Texas History classes, so guess what Cyranose, here we go.

Yes, when Mexico broke off from Spain, they outlawed slavery.  Good for them.  Yes, many of the Americans who answered Mexico's call for settlers into the Texas region were from the Southern states, and some brought their slaves.  Very few though. 

There were Tejano defenders in the Alamo, Mexicans who were unhappy with the poor governing coming from Mexico City (1000 miles away) as well as ones who did not like Santa Anna's dictatorial leadership.  Good numbers are hard to get, because Sam Houston told the Texas army to leave the Alamo, it's defense was an unofficial action, and Santa Anna is not known for his accurate reporting. 

Texas won the follow up battle, became a state and joined the Confederacy in the Civil War. The whole Alamo thing was about slavery, cotton and money.

All that happened significantly later, and Sam Houston, who had been General, President and then Governor of Texas actively campaigned against secession (leaving the US, for you lurkers from Rio Linda).  The Alamo was about defending people and territory from a vicious dictator.  Don't improperly conflate those events with the eventual arguments about slavery.   

Our history classes and movies taught us so much bullshit that it's hard for misinformed people to know what's true/real and what isn't.

And who has been teaching those history classes and making those movies, you void surrounded by a sphincter muscle? Your woke, commie, hive minded comrades.  At the next party meeting, please share your feelings about the difficulty differentiating fantasy from reality when being fed party propaganda.  I'm sure they will welcome you to a private, guarded room to discuss your concerns.