The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: BannedFromDU on October 21, 2021, 09:53:04 PM
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NJCher (27,649 posts)
A woman was fatally shot by a prop firearm on an Alec Baldwin movie set
Source: NPR
SANTA FE, N.M. — The director of photography on a movie starring Alec Baldwin has been killed and the film's director injured, according to the sheriff's office of Santa Fe County, N.M. They were shot by a prop firearm that was discharged by Baldwin, who is also a producer on the film.
Halyna Hutchins, 42, the director of photography, was airlifted to the University of New Mexico hospital, where she was pronounced dead. The second victim, director Joel Souza, 48, was being cared for at Christus St. Vincent Medical Center.
The investigation is ongoing and authorities say no charges have been filed in this incident. Detectives are continuing to be interview witnesses.
Production has been halted on the Western movie "Rust," which is being directed by Joel Souza with Baldwin producing and acting.
Read more: https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1048246249/woman-killed-alec-baldwin-film-prop-firearm-new-mexico
More at link, including photographs.
He's such a hothead, I wonder what they did to provoke him to go on his murderous spree? Anyway, Alec Baldwin: murderous gun nut. (https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142816280)
Just calling it like DU would - remember when Cheney accidentally shot a guy but didn't murder him? DU went NUTS. So, here you go, DUmmies. One of yours is now a gun humping murderous gun nut who belongs in prison forever.
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More liberal on liberal violence. Meh.
At least the chances we’ll have to listen to Alex Baldwin’s stupid political viewpoint could be put on hold for a week. Maybe longer if we’re lucky.
.
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More liberal on liberal violence. Meh.
At least the chances we’ll have to listen to Alex Baldwin’s stupid political viewpoint could be put on hold for a week. Maybe longer if we’re lucky.
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He murdered a woman, and given his history with violence, I'm guessing she offended him somehow so he busted a cap in her. Maybe they're shooting the movie in Chicago and he felt even more entitled? Anyway, he needs to be in prison for the rest of his life.
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Maybe they stopped closing.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AridThinAdouri-max-1mb.gif)
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SANTA FE, N.M. — The director of photography on a movie starring Alec Baldwin has been killed and the film's director injured, according to the sheriff's office of Santa Fe County, N.M. They were shot by a prop firearm that was discharged by Baldwin, who is also a producer on the film.
1. Hollyweird is using real guns as props? :o
2. The prop gun was loaded with real bullets? :o
3. Baldwin (or any other actor) was allowed to handle a real, loaded, gun without very serious safety training and a sidekick monitoring every moment he held the gun? :o :o :o :o :o
Any 12YO who's taken a Hunter's Safety course (that was what it was called when I took it, through an NRA instructor) knows two rules: 1. Don't point your gun at people, close or far; 2. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are about to shoot - whether skeet or game. Obviously, Baldwin moronically (please forgive that redundancy) ignored or was ignorant of those basic safety rules. What are the odds Baldwin was "lit" or "well oiled", violating another basic safety rule?
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How do you accidentally shoot 2 people with a gun that is not fully automatic?
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More liberal on liberal violence. Meh.
At least the chances we’ll have to listen to Alex Baldwin’s stupid political viewpoint could be put on hold for a week. Maybe longer if we’re lucky.
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Guns don't kill people, liberals kill people.
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How do you accidentally shoot 2 people with a gun that is not fully automatic?
By being a complete asshole who is clearly playing around, pointing a gun at people and "pretending" to shoot them. Alec Baldwin murdered someone and gravely injured another, period. He will get a pass because he doesn't like Republicans, and soon it will be the fault of some poor wage-earner stagehand, but the clear-eyed world knows full well that a liberal with proven, documented anger issues picked up a gun and murdered someone. And that's all there is to that.
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How do you accidentally shoot 2 people with a gun that is not fully automatic?
Pure speculation on my part. This was a movie set. Likely this was a close up of Baldwin shooting so he was aiming the gun at the camera and fired like he has done a hundred times. People behind the camera were hit.
~~that said. Real bullets in a prop gun is a detective show cliche. Even Columbo knows this was no accident.
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The gun fired itself.
I think I heard that one already this morning.
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Blanks can kill at close distance.
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Blanks can kill at close distance.
That was a possibility that didn't occur to me earlier this AM. I blame under-caffeination. :-)
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Given the wall to wall attention this unfortunate event is getting, what big event or announcement that actually affects people happened yesterday that the drivebys are distracting us from? Knee jerk reaction is Biden going off script and saying we would defend Taiwan from a Chinese attack during his townhall meeting last night. Any other possibilities?
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Maybe they stopped closing.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AridThinAdouri-max-1mb.gif)
She beat him at 'words with friends'
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The current story, from a union local's email, is that the prop master accidentally gave Baldwin a regular gun loaded with a live round. In that possible scenario, Baldwin didn't know he had a live round, fired "into" (near) the camera, the bullet went through the woman who died, and wounded the second person, who was behind her. At close range just about anything larger caliber than a .22 LR or .25 ACP would do that (and maybe those calibers would as well).
Knowing how the "news" works, it'll probably be a day or two before what happened is reasonably known. One possibility that would fit with the above would be that the prop master had two similar prop guns prepped for two scenes, one loaded with blank(s), one with live round(s), and he gave Baldwin the wrong prop gun for the scene being shot.
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The current story, from a union local's email, is that the prop master accidentally gave Baldwin a regular gun loaded with a live round. In that possible scenario, Baldwin didn't know he had a live round, fired "into" (near) the camera, the bullet went through the woman who died, and wounded the second person, who was behind her. At close range just about anything larger caliber than a .22 LR or .25 ACP would do that (and maybe those calibers would as well).
Knowing how the "news" works, it'll probably be a day or two before what happened is reasonably known. One possibility that would fit with the above would be that the prop master had two similar prop guns prepped for two scenes, one loaded with blank(s), one with live round(s), and he gave Baldwin the wrong prop gun for the scene being shot.
Do they have any good reason for using live ammo on a movie shoot? I've long thought everything was blanks, never thought about why until reading your post.
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There was apparently one live bullet in that gun. This is quite the mystery. Who put it there? Some loon on twitter speculated it was a Trump supporter, who was trying to get back at Alec for doing his impressions on SNL. :lmao:
This is why I don't have a twitter account.
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Do they have any good reason for using live ammo on a movie shoot? I've long thought everything was blanks, never thought about why until reading your post.
No. Real ammo should never be anywhere near a movie set. (Except maybe holstered on trained professional security.)
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https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
Alec Baldwin ‘Rust’ -UNION- camera crew walked off the set in protest before the fatal shooting
The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.
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No. Real ammo should never be anywhere near a movie set. (Except maybe holstered on trained professional security.)
The trained professional is the part that confuses me. On any TV or movie set that has an open flame effect other than a candle, a licensed pyrotechnician with a theatrical rating must be present any time the device us in operation. This can range from a propane burner buried in rocks and fake logs to simulate a campfire up to a massive fuel/air explosion to simulate a plane crash or building.
Doesn't the entertainment industry also have similar requirements in regards to trained safety personnel being present anytime a loaded firearm is to be used during a movie shoot?
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The trained professional is the part that confuses me. On any TV or movie set that has an open flame effect other than a candle, a licensed pyrotechnician with a theatrical rating must be present any time the device us in operation. This can range from a propane burner buried in rocks and fake logs to simulate a campfire up to a massive fuel/air explosion to simulate a plane crash or building.
Doesn't the entertainment industry also have similar requirements in regards to trained safety personnel being present anytime a loaded firearm is to be used during a movie shoot?
Well, unions are involved in this kerfuffle which always adds a lot of extraneous and worthless stooges to be "on the job".
Granted, I don't know what stringent requirements you have for your specialty. But goodness knows I'm not going to try and educate someone who knows 1000 times more than I do on a given subject.
Naturally DUmmies just opine on whatever they see with reckless authority. Especially when they know ZERO about the subject.
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Alec Baldwin facing backlash for 2017 tweet questioning 'how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone'
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/alec-baldwin-facing-backlash-tweet-questioning-wrongfully-kill-someone
Actor Alec Baldwin is facing criticism for a 2017 tweet he posted in which he questions "how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone."
On Thursday, Baldwin, 63, was at the center of a Hollywood tragedy that unfolded on the set of the movie "Rust." Authorities said that Baldwin fired a prop gun on a movie set that killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins. Director Joel Souza was identified as the crew member taken to the hospital. He has since been released, "Rust" star Frances Fisher claimed on Twitter.
Twitter users are now zeroing in on Baldwin's past social media activity and one glaring tweet he posted on Sept. 22, 2017 reads: "I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone..." The tweet also included a link to a Los Angeles Times article about a Huntington Beach police officer who was captured on video struggling with a suspect in a parking lot of a convenience store before shooting the man several times, killing him.
"this did not age well," one Twitter user wrote on the thread of Baldwin's tweet.
Tweets in question
AlecBaldwin
@AlecBaldwln____
I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone...
https://twitter.com/AlecBaldwln____/status/911425278123048960
AlecBaldwin
@AlecBaldwln____
...@JohnJohnpitt11
You hook your friends with that line?
Shoot em in the face?
Cheney style?
12:09 PM · Oct 30, 2015·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/AlecBaldwln____/status/660141371232296960
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I've been over this in my head more than a few times, but I simply can't get past one thing. Now this is just a personal opinion, mind you, but I consider it valid.
If I were "acting" in this capacity and was handed a gun, there is no way in sam hell I would point it at another human and pull the trigger unless I had done the check on it MYSELF. I mean, I even get a little itchy watching people point toy guns at others. It's just burned into my brain so deep.. and even after I checked and was sure the gun was loaded with simple blanks, I would still be real hesitant to do it. It makes me extremely uncomfortable just thinking about it. Maybe he's not allowed to open it up and look? I dunno man, but I'd never trust another person at that level, I have to see it for myself or I'm not doing it.
I know it's part of the job, but I still believe Baldwin carries some of the burden here. Rumor is also flying that they he was just assing around with the gun when it happened. I've no idea how true any of that is.
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The DUmp has it whittled down to two possible options:
Trump did it (of course):
Chin music (13,085 posts)
3. Such a good dude. And Democrat.
Nobodies perfect in our regular lives, but, there's no way this would have happened had he had the slim'est clue.
trmp hated him for mocking him. Anybody check that angle?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215974432#post3 (https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215974432#post3)
And sabotage:
Hugh_Lebowski (25,260 posts)
2. Depressing ... but I do kinda wonder if there wasn't a saboteur ... not saying there WAS, but ...
I won't be terribly surprised either way.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215974468#post2 (https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215974468#post2)
So apparently in DUmpland the possible reason for this accident may congeal into "Trump hiding in the grassy knoll" which is an slight upgrade from cops in bushes.
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I wonder who'll play him on SNL... ?
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I've been over this in my head more than a few times, but I simply can't get past one thing. Now this is just a personal opinion, mind you, but I consider it valid.
If I were "acting" in this capacity and was handed a gun, there is no way in sam hell I would point it at another human and pull the trigger unless I had done the check on it MYSELF. I mean, I even get a little itchy watching people point toy guns at others. It's just burned into my brain so deep.. and even after I checked and was sure the gun was loaded with simple blanks, I would still be real hesitant to do it. It makes me extremely uncomfortable just thinking about it. Maybe he's not allowed to open it up and look? I dunno man, but I'd never trust another person at that level, I have to see it for myself or I'm not doing it.
I know it's part of the job, but I still believe Baldwin carries some of the burden here. Rumor is also flying that they he was just assing around with the gun when it happened. I've no idea how true any of that is.
As usual, info is dribbling out. Baldwin was the producer of the movies. Thus he was responsible for proper staffing and organization. Some of the union people walked off the set just hours before the shooting, citing safety problems. I'm wary of union people claims, but evidently there were accidents with prop guns three times prior to the shooting. So their dafety concerns seem to have been real, and then there's the shooting.
As producer, Baldwin "owns" the hiring of the armorers, even if he did not choose whom to hire directly. As producer, Baldwin was responsible for not firing the armorers after each accident, three distinct failures. As producer, Baldwin was responsible for making sure proper safety training was done, and followed. Apparently some safety training was done, but reports I've seen indicate that Baldwin, personally, was careless. And the three prior accidents are evidence that carelessness on the set was pervasive.
As for your point, Baldwin probably didn't have the knowledge to do the check, if the gun was a semi-auto. BUT as producer, he should have observed what was loaded into that pistol, especially after there having been three prior accidents, and had the pistol marked to avoid confusing it with another prop gun. And if there was more than one similar prop gun, only one should be loaded at a time, unless a scene required otherwise.
The bottom line, IMO (based on what I "know") is that while Baldwin should not be on the hook for a murder or manslaughter charge, he should be for whatever NM calls negligent homicide. As a GoogTube video producer said about a very different context, this killing is like an onion, with multiple layers of failure. Many of those failure layers are Baldwin failing to do his job as producer. Baldwin is an assaholic. Any right choice among several failed choices probably would have prevented this woman's death.
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As for your point, Baldwin probably didn't have the knowledge to do the check, if the gun was a semi-auto.
Since this was a "western", I doubt it was a semi-automatic, more likely a six-shooter.
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Since this was a "western", I doubt it was a semi-automatic, more likely a six-shooter.
Still a degree of skill I would not expect a Hollyweirder to have, :rotf: , due to Hollyweirders' willful ignorance. But if he had that skill he should have checked, and if he didn't he should have supervised the loading, given the previous prop gun accidents.
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Do they have any good reason for using live ammo on a movie shoot? I've long thought everything was blanks, never thought about why until reading your post.
Have there been any updates to the story that the gun was loaded with a live round and more importantly why a live round was even used?
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Blanks can kill at close distance.
Yes very close range in very soft tissue. But there was more distance than against one's head and squib wouldn't have killed much less gone through a person and then into another person. That is one scenario. The other is that Baldwin shot the woman and then pulled the trigger again shooting the man. Seeing as the REAL GUN USED AS A PROP was a single action revolver much intent on Baldwin's part.
Either way he should have never been pointing it at somebody he was not intent on shooting. I have also heard that he said something like "If we have to shoot the scene again I'm going to kill you."
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Have there been any updates to the story that the gun was loaded with a live round and more importantly why a live round was even used?
Reports I've seen have stated when the gun was handed to Baldwin the person told him it was "cold". In the same report it was stated that they were having proplems with the weapons they were using, going off with no trigger pull.
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Reports I've seen have stated when the gun was handed to Baldwin the person told him it was "cold". In the same report it was stated that they were having proplems with the weapons they were using, going off with no trigger pull.
If those reports are accurate it shows that nobody on that set had any respect for firearms
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Reports I've seen have stated when the gun was handed to Baldwin the person told him it was "cold". In the same report it was stated that they were having proplems with the weapons they were using, going off with no trigger pull.
Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:
I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer? Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?
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Actor John Schneider reacts to Alec Baldwin's "prop gun" fatal shooting
https://youtu.be/AM129qTYrKk (https://youtu.be/AM129qTYrKk)
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Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:
I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer? Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?
The hammer should have to be manually "cocked", then the trigger pulled for each shot. (I think) That's why two shots being fired seems odd if it were accidental.
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Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:
I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer? Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?
There are single- and double-action revolvers. But, yes, a double-action revolver would have to have a full trigger pull for it to fire. I'm not a gun expert of either type, but I've been doing a little learning.
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“Corners Were Being Cut”: Baldwin Shooting Already Has The Makings of a Blockbuster Tort Action
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/10/23/corners-were-being-cut-baldwin-shooting-already-has-the-makings-a-blockbuster-tort-action/
The fatal shooting at Bonanza Creek Ranch already has the makings of a blockbuster tort action. Within 24 hours of actor Alec Baldwin fatally shooting cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounding the director, witnesses have raised serious questions of negligent and unsafe practice on the site for the low-budget film, “Rust.” The question is not whether but when the first torts lawsuit will be filed. There has already been speculation on the civil and criminal liability in the case, so it may be useful to explore what we know and what it might mean for the likely litigation ahead.
We now know from accounts that the movie set was the source of long-standing complaints over safety and working conditions. The production company allegedly required workers to drive 50 miles a day rather than pay for hotels, according to witnesses. Workers complained that this left them exhausted on the set. The site turns out to be the same location used in past Westerns because of its remote and rugged terrain. (As a Western movie buff, one of the movies stood out as a favorite: The Man From Laramie).
There were as many as three prior accidental discharges of weapons on the set. The conflicts over conditions on the set reportedly led to a demand that union members leave the set at one point.It does not appear that Baldwin knew that a live round or a projectile was in the gun. There are no reports to indicate that this was anything more than an accident, but police cannot operate under that assumption. Given the labor issues on the set, the possibility of an intentional act cannot be discounted. There is also possible criminal exposure for criminal negligence.It is also important to note that a “live weapon” can refer not to only to an actual bullet being put into the gun but some projectile being present. There could have been material in the gun that a blank round then turned into a lethal projectile like a bullet.
There is a question where the lawsuit would be filed. Many of the crew were from California but the set is in New Mexico. The California code contains an ample criminal negligence or manslaughter provision:
PART 1. OF CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS [25 – 680.4]
( Part 1 enacted 1872. )
TITLE 8. OF CRIMES AGAINST THE PERSON [187 – 248]
Section 192.
Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice. It is of three kinds:
(a) Voluntary—upon a sudden quarrel or heat of passion.
(b) Involuntary—in the commission of an unlawful act, not amounting to a felony; or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death, in an unlawful manner, or without due caution and circumspection. This subdivision shall not apply to acts committed in the driving of a vehicle.
(c) Vehicular—…
New Mexico has a similar provision that allows “involuntary manslaughter” charges for “the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.”
So much corners being cut.
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Does this mean Ted Kennedy now has a fellow soldier in the war against women?
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“Corners Were Being Cut”: Baldwin Shooting Already Has The Makings of a Blockbuster Tort Action
https://jonathanturley.org/2021/10/23/corners-were-being-cut-baldwin-shooting-already-has-the-makings-a-blockbuster-tort-action/
So much corners being cut.
The MSM have found their scapegoat, a young inexperienced, female armorer.
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The MSM have found their scapegoat, a young inexperienced, female armorer.
Be that as it may, Baldwin, as producer, hired her, and retained her despite 3 gun prop accidents. He should have canned her after the first accident.
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Assuming the gun was a revolver since it's a western:
I have semi-autos, not revolvers so am not a revolver expert but wouldn't a revolver either need to be cocked ahead of time or have the trigger pulled back sufficiently to cock the hammer? Doesn't it take more than a light strike to ignite the primer?
Revolvers are both single and double action. Since this was set before the civil war and they were being authentic it would have been a single action meaning pull the hammer back, rotating the cylinder, pull the trigger and bang.
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The MSM have found their scapegoat, a young inexperienced, female armorer.
Must be nice that the buck doesn't stop with the anti-gun (for you and me, anyway) PRODUCER who authorized this series rolling cluster****s in the first place.
A safety culture is established from the TOP, Baldwin. If it were MY project which was allowing untrained imbeciles to continue having "accidents" with "dangerous" tools after the deficiency first reared it's ugly head, I know I'd be pretty damned dispondent about the environment I'd created, Alec. Possibly feel bad enough about it that putting the gun barrel in MY mouth would look like a pretty ...comforting option. (hint hint)
:fuelfire: :popcorn:
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Revolvers are both single and double action. Since this was set before the civil war and they were being authentic it would have been a single action meaning pull the hammer back, rotating the cylinder, pull the trigger and bang.
It seems at least 2 shots were fired if not more. One could be an accident, the second...
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It seems at least 2 shots were fired if not more. One could be an accident, the second...
rapid fire hammer?
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rapid fire hammer?
Or intentional or he tried to fan the hammer.
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rapid fire hammer?
fully automatic revolver
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fully automatic revolver
High capacity weapon of war, 1812 but still a war. :cheersmate:
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Response to Javaman (Reply #25)Fri Oct 22, 2021, 02:27 PM
Star Member TexasBushwhacker (17,381 posts)
33. They used a non-Union propmaster n/t
Response to TexasBushwhacker (Reply #33)Fri Oct 22, 2021, 03:59 PM
Star Member Javaman (58,093 posts)
37. well, and there you have it.
****ing moron. I hope he serves time.
I guess that lets Baldwin off the hook--in these primitive's minds, anyway.
A young woman, barely dry behind the ears. Sounds like she didn't know what the hell she was doing.
Woman in Charge of Guns on Alec Baldwin’s Movie Set Deletes Her Social Media Accounts
She also considered the work a “pretty sweet gig,” she said. Before starting on Rust, Ms Reed had wrapped shooting on Nicolas Cage’s first Western, The Old Way, which was “also my first time being head armourer, as well,” she told the podcast.
“I was really nervous about it at first, and I almost didn’t take the job,” she said of her role on The Old Way, continuing: “Doing it, it went really smoothly.”
She added: “I think loading blanks was the scariest thing to me because I was like ‘oh, I don’t know anything about it”, but explkained that her father helped with her training.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/woman-charge-guns-alec-baldwins-movie-set-deletes-social-media-accounts/
A colossal screw up and Baldwin and this girl are going to swing for it--and probably still more people yet.
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Much better than prison for Baldwin will be the endless legal and insurance hassles he'll face. **** him: he KILLED a woman, and trying to pass off blame to an underling is the most pathetic move yet.
Think about it: Baldwin murders a woman, and he blames another woman for the murder. What a sackless, pathetic loser moron. Enjoy your depositions, asshole.
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Baldwin stands a chance of getting zero meaningful consequences, on the criminal side. The armorer may, and she was negligent, criminally, IMO. But her pockets are shallow, and Baldwin’s are DEEP. So his consequences will be from the civil lawsuits side - $$ and time responding.
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Baldwin stands a chance of getting zero meaningful consequences, on the criminal side. The armorer may, and she was negligent, criminally, IMO. But her pockets are shallow, and Baldwin’s are DEEP. So his consequences will be from the civil lawsuits side - $$ and time responding.
It's amazing how the hoplophobia suffering Left, who seek to blame law-abiding gun owners for the actions of criminals using firearms will close ranks to try to shield Baldwin from responsibility for his homicidal actions.
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Baldwin stands a chance of getting zero meaningful consequences, on the criminal side. The armorer may, and she was negligent, criminally, IMO. But her pockets are shallow, and Baldwin’s are DEEP. So his consequences will be from the civil lawsuits side - $$ and time responding.
Santa Fe County DA is a Dem who ran unopposed in 2020. AB is a liberal elite. Worst case he gets to plea to some slap on the wrist misdemeanor.
I suspect he'll settle out of court on civil suits with NDAs to keep this out of the press as much as possible. (But that's just guessing on my part.)
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Baldwin stands a chance of getting zero meaningful consequences, on the criminal side. The armorer may, and she was negligent, criminally, IMO. But her pockets are shallow, and Baldwin’s are DEEP. So his consequences will be from the civil lawsuits side - $$ and time responding.
But he is professionally ****ed, which will have to do. Hope he enjoys the late night circuit for as long as he can milk it.
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But he is professionally ****ed, which will have to do. Hope he enjoys the late night circuit for as long as he can milk it.
Maybe he and Kathy the Griffin could do twosome "comedy" shows. :rimshot: :bolt:
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Maybe he and Kathy the Griffin could do twosome "comedy" shows. :rimshot: :bolt:
Whatever. As long as he's in court for the rest of his life. All good with me.
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Response to Javaman (Reply #25)Fri Oct 22, 2021, 02:27 PM
Star Member TexasBushwhacker (17,381 posts)
33. They used a non-Union propmaster n/t
Stories I have read and heard on the radio indicate that the union stage hands (IATSE local 44) walked off the set hours prior to the accident citing previous unsafe incidents on the movie set and were replaced with non-union labor.
Is it possible that a member of the union was upset at being replaced by non union workers and a live round was loaded into the prop gun to sabotage the credibility of the non union workers? Not with the intent of actually harming someone, but more of something along the lines of when the live round was fired, the union could say "see, that's what happens when you hire non union amateurs..."
Another source briefed on the situation told The Post that a crew of workers had walked off the film’s set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe, NM, Thursday morning over what they alleged were poor safety protocols, before Baldwin, 63, fired the gun later that day.
The union for the workers who walked off the set claimed the prop gun had a live round in it when it discharged and killed director of photography Halyna Hutchins, 42, and injured director Joel Souza, 48.
The prop gun also misfired twice on Saturday and once during the previous week, the Los Angeles Times reported, citing a knowledgeable crew member who told the paper that “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”
https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/replacement-non-union-worker-was-in-charge-of-alec-baldwins-deadly-prop-gun/ (https://nypost.com/2021/10/22/replacement-non-union-worker-was-in-charge-of-alec-baldwins-deadly-prop-gun/)
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Apparently, the gun was not kept in locked storage, but was used by the crew for "target practice" (which probably means that live ammo was also not in locked storage). It may be that the near-novice armorer was similarly "thorough" in loading and checking the gun before handing it to actors for use in scenes.
Right now I'm more persuaded that it was a whole lot of stupidity rather than some sort of union conspiracy or resentment by Baldwin against the crew member he killed.
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Right now I'm more persuaded that it was a whole lot of stupidity rather than some sort of union conspiracy or resentment by Baldwin against the crew member he killed.
Raw stupidity, absolutely.
If I had to guess based on what I've heard so far, a bunch of honyocks were bringing ammo from home and using the guns "off the clock" for fun time. Some dolt left ammo in at least one of them. Then, carelessness and disregard for all protocol on the part of just about everyone involved led to this.
i don't see anything with malicious intent, but I do see crimes of negligence in their futures. No one will do jail time, and I'm skeptical there will even be any official charges based on where they are, but the tort factor is going to probably bury Baldwin once and for all.
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I hadn't heard any of the stories about the crew using prop guns for target practice but if true this is industrial strength stupidity which puts a huge liability on the production company for allowing this to happen.
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I hadn't heard any of the stories about the crew using prop guns for target practice but if true this is industrial strength stupidity which puts a huge liability on the production company for allowing this to happen.
This Hot Air blogpost by Allahpundit summarizes and puts together a lot of what is "known" and analyzes its meaning. Allahpundit is my least favorite Hot Air writer, because (s)he is Never-Trump to an over-the-top degree, and on some issues (s)he is less than well-informed and/or makes things less than clear. BUT in this piece (s)he really puts a lot together and is clear about the implications.
Among other things, (s)he explains why, in the normal course of how things are done, it would have been very unusual for Baldwin to check the gun personally. On the other hand it is very clear the as the producer responsible for hiring capable, safety-conscious (not just gun safety) people, Baldwin failed horribly. And Baldwin failed to take steps to rectify obvious, dangerous, safety issues.
At this point, then, it looks like the Armorer and First Assistant Director may be on the hook criminally, while Baldwin should get clobbered in civil court for his choices and failures to act as producer.
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Report: Halyna Hutchins Was Shot in Chest When Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/24/report-halyna-hutchins-was-shot-in-chest-when-alec-baldwin-fired-prop-gun/
The New York Post reports that Halyna Hutchins, the 42-year-old cinematographer who Alec Baldwin shot and killed on the Rust movie set Thursday, was shot in the chest.
Breitbart News noted Thursday that New Mexico’s Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office was investigating Hutchins’ death after actor Alec Baldwin discharged a prop gun. A second individual, 48-year-old Joel Souza, was also wounded in the shooting.
On Sunday, the Post observed that Baldwin “unknowingly fired a live round, hitting 42-year-old Hutchins in the chest and killing her. Director Joel Souza, 48, who was standing behind her, was also injured.”
Script supervisor Mamie Mitchell called 911 after the shooting occurred.
Mitchell told the dispatcher, “We had two people accidentally shot on a movie set by a prop gun, we need help immediately. We were rehearsing and it went off, and I ran out, we all ran out.”
Hollywood weapons expert Bryan Carpenter talked to the Post and stressed that the No. 1 rule for prop firearms is: “Loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being.”
Alec Baldwin did not following first rule.
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Report: Halyna Hutchins Was Shot in Chest When Alec Baldwin Fired Prop Gun
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2021/10/24/report-halyna-hutchins-was-shot-in-chest-when-alec-baldwin-fired-prop-gun/
Alec Baldwin did not following first rule.
My 2 cents from being taught by an NRA instructor on rule #1, on how to use my gun was ...
Always presume that it is LOADED.
IMHO ... This most likely-low-priced-production company, :-) ...
Should have hired an actual NRA official of some type to advise them on the safety precautions necessary while filming with an actual firearm!
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Response to jeffreyi (Reply #1)Thu Oct 21, 2021, 10:57 PM
Star Member NJCher (27,684 posts)
2. story at link tells how
Baldwin was in tears, but the press could not speak to him (obviously).
Something like this is enough to ruin your life for a long, long time
He should join some kind of support group of high profile people who have gone through the same kind of ordeal. Guys like OJ Simpson, Robert Blake, Robert Wagner, Ted Kennedy, and Fatty Arbuckle.