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Offline Revolution

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Let's Bash the Pledge!
« on: May 23, 2012, 02:53:59 AM »
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white_wolf (4,373 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

Does anyone else have a problem with children saying the Pledge of Allegiance?

I don't know if it's still being done now, but when I was in highschool in 08 the Pledge was still said daily over the intercom and when I was elementary school the teachers would lead the class. Does anyone else have a problem with it? Children pledging their allegiance to the state before they are even old enough to understand what they are saying seems like a bad thing to do. It seems like it could foster strong and sometimes dangerous nationalist sentiment in later years. I know it isn't actually mandatory in schools, but you aren't ever told you don't have to do it and the pressure to conform is strong.

I personally stood up, and recited every single time. I do it at sporting events, every year at our towns 9/11 memorial get together, and at any other event that warrants it. Same with the Star Spangled Banner, and the National Anthem.

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left on green only(495 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

23. +1 Your post took the words right out of my mouth and left me breathless.
The only thing that I can add is that I can remember in later school years, after I started to become aware of all of the hypocrisy that was prevalent in our country, how I used to just pantomime and lip sync the act every morning. In my own cynical way, I figured that it was the best thing to do in order to fit in with the hypocrisy that was being shoved down my throat as a part of my education.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002712938

And the Piss Revolution Off post of the week goes tooooooo....That's right. LOGO!!

Though it doesn't suprise me that you, or any of your kind feigns patriotism because your too SPINELESS to stand up, and say how you really feel. And why would that be? Fear. Fear of getting your ass kicked if you spoke of your true feelings/opinions. And it would happen, because there are a hell of a lot more of my kind out there than yours.

Coward.

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Happyhippychick(4,871 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

6. I do.

It feels wrong and indoctrinating, for lack of a better word. I hate it.

 :rotf: Out of all the delusional shit teachers teach nowdays, out of all the wrong, manipulated, unadulturated bile the teachers put on students these days, the PLEDGE is "indoctrinating?"

Up yours.

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Warpy(63,253 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

7. I think daily loyalty oaths from children are creepy

Hmmmm, you think that's creepy? Go have a talk with IanDavid for about an hour. Your perspective should change substantially.

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southernyankeebelle(5,839 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

34. I just misspelled it sorry. But it meant something to me and was always happy to say them. I come from a military environment growing up. My dad and my husband both retired from the military along with my father-in-law. I never mind saying that because my dad was in WWII, Korea and VN before the built up. He was wounded in WWII. I think saying the pledge honors him and his fellow soldiers who died. I feel it unite the country.

For the purposes of this thread, you're a good egg.

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Codeine(11,899 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

9. I think it's stupid and archaic.

Last edited Mon May 21, 2012, 04:57 PM USA/ET - Edit history (2)

That said, the little buggers don't have a single clue what they're saying or what it means, so the oath has no significance whatsoever in their minds. Perhaps by making it a mindless exercise in robotic mantra-ism all the harm is sort of washed out?

Go overdose. Nobody will miss you.

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GoneOffShore(8,956 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

10. Not in favor of it.

Or at political events or sporting events.

It's creepy. Didn't used to think so, but do now.

I will not recite it, I will not sing the Star Spangled Banner and I will not stand for "God Bless America".

What was that little quote I have personally heard some of your Occupooper friends uttering? Oh yes, "Stand for something, or die for nothing."' You're disobeying your masters. Fall back in line, maggot!!

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SoutherDem(619 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

17. Honestly

I didn't know why or what I was really saying. I didn't even think of what the words meant until I was an adult.
 
I can't say I have a problem with it but it is a bit nationalistic and we do have a larger number of non-americans in our school now than when I was in school.
 
Also the under god part was added in either 1954 or 56, when publicly admitting you were an atheist might get you beat up as quick as admitting you were gay. For an atheist this might present a problem.
 
As to voluntary? Volunteering is helping hand out something for the teacher. To be told the pledge would be voluntary is asking for ridicule from the child of a right winger when someone choses not to do so.

That's because the powerhouses in your upside down state (Brown, Boxer, Pelousy) are complete imbeciles, and "I Word" sympathizers. As to your last line, don't think so n00b.

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RZM(6,363 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

80. It makes me think of prayers. Here's my customized hybrid version

Last edited Tue May 22, 2012, 11:32 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

'I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, who art in heaven, hallowed by thy name. Thy kingdom come, they will be done, on earth as it is heaven, with liberty and justice for all. Amen.'
 

It might be time to reconsider the pledge in school beyond part of history.

Couldn't even get PAER of the Lord's Prayer right. What a nit-wit.

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rug(36,861 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

27. My daughter stopped saying it in third grade.

And I'm sure you had absolutely NO influence on that young mind, huh?  :whatever:

But, but....OBAMA says we should:

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cherokeeprogressive(12,458 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

29. Nnnnnope.

Not at all. Neither does The President.

"In order to recognize the American spirit of loyalty and the sacrifices that so many have made for our Nation, the Congress, by Public Law 85-529 as amended, has designated May 1 of each year as "Loyalty Day." On this day, let us reaffirm our allegiance to the United States of America, our Constitution, and our founding values.
 
NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 1, 2012, as Loyalty Day. This Loyalty Day, I call upon all the people of the United States to join in support of this national observance, whether by displaying the flag of the United States or pledging allegiance to the Republic for which it stands.
 
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this first day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand twelve, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-sixth."

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white_wolf(4,373 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

33. Loyalty Day is such bullshit.

It's May Day,I international Worker's Day, not Loyalty Day

Yeah, dammit!  :bawl:

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whathehell(8,768 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

35. Tell it to Barack.

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cherokeeprogressive(12,458 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

36. Ze Google. Try it zometime.

Then write The President and tell him how you feel.

May 1. Loyalty Day, as proclaimed by President Barack Obama.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

 :lmao:

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white_wolf(4,373 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

39. It's still bullshit.

May Day is a lot older. Besides if the President was listening to my advice, I would have far more important issues to discus with him than a holidays. However, since I'm not a millionaire donor I'm not on the list of people he goes to for policy advice.

*GASP!* Oh no he di'ent!! ALERT! ALERT! BLACK BLOC! BLACK BLOC! :panic:

Too much more to post.

Buncha assholes.

On Edit:

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Generic Other(18,859 posts) Profile Journal Send DU Mail Ignore

62. red white and blue porn

with liberty and justice for some.

I wish I knew you personally, you sleaze!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 03:00:36 AM by Revolution »
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Offline Gina

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2012, 08:47:23 AM »
I get tearyeyed saying the Pledge of Allegiance.  I don't see how you couldn't unless you are a worthless bastard sucking off of other American's.
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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2012, 08:50:10 AM »
Quote from: Gina on May 23, 2012, 08:47:23 AM
I get tearyeyed saying the Pledge of Allegiance.  I don't see how you couldn't unless you are a worthless bastard sucking off of other American's.

Singing the Battle Hymn does that to me.  Sunday, . . . I'll figure it out.
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Offline movie buff

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2012, 09:51:18 AM »
Typical ungrateful, traitorous scum. Even when one of their own is in office, they still feel the need to openly bash their own country which gives them the sorts of freedoms that they can't find anywhere else.
The bash their country, but worship their figurehead politicians, and anyone else who's built up a cult of personality around themselves that the DUmmies agree with.
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Offline Kyle Ricky

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2012, 09:53:55 AM »
I always stand and hold my hand on my heart when I say the pledge. Unlike the socialist DUmpster suckers, I love this country.
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Offline dixierose

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2012, 09:56:35 AM »
I had a Jehova Witness in my classes growing up. He never stood and recited the pledge; and I don't remember making fun of him for it....
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Offline wasp69

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2012, 10:13:08 AM »
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white_wolf (4,373 posts)

Does anyone else have a problem with children saying the Pledge of Allegiance?

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left on green only(495 posts)

23.
In my own cynical way, I figured that it was the best thing to do in order to fit in with the hypocrisy that was being shoved down my throat as a part of my education.

Quote
Happyhippychick(4,871 posts)

6.
It feels wrong and indoctrinating, for lack of a better word. I hate it.

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Warpy(63,253 posts)

7. I think daily loyalty oaths from children are creepy

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Codeine(11,899 posts)

9. I think it's stupid and archaic.

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GoneOffShore(8,956 posts)

10.
I will not recite it, I will not sing the Star Spangled Banner and I will not stand for "God Bless America".

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rug(36,861 posts)

27. My daughter stopped saying it in third grade.

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Generic Other(18,859 posts)

62. red white and blue porn

with liberty and justice for some.

You know, I read somewhere that American patriotic symbology (flags and the like) are more readily identifiable with Conservative/Republican ideals and candidates for elected office and that American patriotism is identified as a Conservative/Republican trait.  I cannot for the life of me think of why the author of that particular piece would believe such a thing.

 :whatever:

*Hat tip to Cherokee Progressive and southernyankeebelle (whatever the Hell that is supposed to mean) for injecting some sanity into that boiling cauldron of blind hate.
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John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Boojatta

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2012, 10:31:16 AM »
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Even when one of their own is in office, they still feel the need to openly bash their own country which gives them the sorts of freedoms that they can't find anywhere else.
Look at the context: "Does anyone else have a problem with children saying the Pledge of Allegiance?"  At what age do children know what the situation is around the world with respect to freedom?

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The bash their country, but worship their figurehead politicians, and anyone else who's built up a cult of personality around themselves that the DUmmies agree with.
I wouldn't phrase it that way myself, because if you claim more than you can support then you lose credibility.  However, I think that there's a kernel of truth in what you wrote there.
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Offline wasp69

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2012, 10:40:27 AM »
Quote from: Boojatta on May 23, 2012, 10:31:16 AM
Look at the context: "Does anyone else have a problem with children saying the Pledge of Allegiance?"  At what age do children know what the situation is around the world with respect to freedom?

Considering the "context" of the rest of the post and the replies following, I'd have to say that your point gets lost in the noise of hatred for the United States and the people who protect the freedoms given to the haters.
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Kyle Ricky

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2012, 10:43:47 AM »
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Happyhippychick(4,871 posts)

6.
It feels wrong and indoctrinating, for lack of a better word. I hate it.

INDOCTRINATION!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?!?!???!?!?!?! Are you really that stupid? Remember this, you moron.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3TKMKbifgQ[/youtube]

You want to talk about indoctrination, then look there and at all the other stuff the liberal teachers and news organizations are doing. You stupid jackass.
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Offline Boojatta

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2012, 11:08:32 AM »
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Considering the "context" of the rest of the post and the replies following, I'd have to say that your point gets lost in the noise of hatred for the United States and the people who protect the freedoms given to the haters.
This is the proofreader's dilemma.  If you are a proofreader and you find a huge number of errors, then do you rejoice that you have found them so that they can be corrected, or weep because so many errors are being made?

Are we hoping to influence DU in a positive direction, and gathering  evidence that the mission is extremely challenging?  Are we seeing DU as beyond hope, and hoping to find ammunition to create bad PR for everything associated with the Democratic Party?
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Offline wasp69

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2012, 11:16:42 AM »
Quote from: Boojatta on May 23, 2012, 11:08:32 AM
This is the proofreader's dilemma.  If you are a proofreader and you find a huge number of errors, then do you rejoice that you have found them so that they can be corrected, or weep because so many errors are being made?

Are we hoping to influence DU in a positive direction, and gathering  evidence that the mission is extremely challenging?  Are we seeing DU as beyond hope, and hoping to find ammunition to create bad PR for everything associated with the Democratic Party?

Do you believe DU can actually be saved?  Do you know the function of the DUmpster forum?
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"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."

C.S. Lewis

A community may possess all the necessary moral qualifications, in so high a degree, as to be capable of self-government under the most adverse circumstances; while, on the other hand, another may be so sunk in ignorance and vice, as to be incapable of forming a conception of liberty, or of living, even when most favored by circumstances, under any other than an absolute and despotic government.

John C Calhoun, "Disquisition on Government", 1840

Offline Revolution

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2012, 11:23:56 AM »
Quote from: Boojatta on May 23, 2012, 11:08:32 AM
This is the proofreader's dilemma.  If you are a proofreader and you find a huge number of errors, then do you rejoice that you have found them so that they can be corrected, or weep because so many errors are being made?

Are we hoping to influence DU in a positive direction, and gathering  evidence that the mission is extremely challenging?  Are we seeing DU as beyond hope, and hoping to find ammunition to create bad PR for everything associated with the Democratic Party?


Yes.
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Offline Wineslob

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2012, 11:25:20 AM »
Isn't it fun exposing the pieces of shit for what they are.
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Offline Gina

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2012, 11:26:04 AM »
Quote from: Boojatta on May 23, 2012, 11:08:32 AM
This is the proofreader's dilemma.  If you are a proofreader and you find a huge number of errors, then do you rejoice that you have found them so that they can be corrected, or weep because so many errors are being made?

Are we hoping to influence DU in a positive direction, and gathering  evidence that the mission is extremely challenging?  Are we seeing DU as beyond hope, and hoping to find ammunition to create bad PR for everything associated with the Democratic Party?


Are you a member of the DUmp?
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Offline Revolution

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2012, 11:26:53 AM »
The DUmp is just a subforum of Conservative Cave, so basically, we're all members of The DUmp.
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Quote from: vesta111 on December 11, 2012, 12:00:18 PM
soon as you find your manhood all else falls into place.

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If Ft. Hood was "workplace violence," then the Hindenburg was an air show.

Guns do not kill people. Rotting, festering, disgusting, grimy, evil, un-reparable souls kill people.

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Offline njpines

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2012, 11:27:47 AM »
Quote from: Gina on May 23, 2012, 11:26:04 AM
Are you a member of the DUmp?

Pizza'd  :lmao:
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Offline Boojatta

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2012, 11:35:17 AM »
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Offline Boojatta

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2012, 11:37:48 AM »
Quote from: njpines on May 23, 2012, 11:27:47 AM
Pizza'd  :lmao:
Can you explain the joke without killing it?
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Offline Gina

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2012, 11:38:30 AM »
Quote from: Boojatta on May 23, 2012, 11:35:17 AM
No, my posting privileges were removed:

Evidence:
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=5762


So you are a liberal that was booted from the DUmp for being a homophobic troll?  Are you hear out of malice or do you want to actually post with our intelligent and funny people?
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Offline Gina

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2012, 11:39:41 AM »
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Offline Boojatta

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2012, 11:50:00 AM »
Quote from: Gina on May 23, 2012, 11:38:30 AM
So you are a liberal who was booted from the DUmp for being a homophobic troll? 
I was booted from DU.  The label "liberal" seems meaningless to me.  Feel free to ask me a specific question about political philosophy.

As for why my DU posting privileges were removed, here's what was actually written:
Quote
MIR Team (EarlG) banned Boojatta
Reason: Homophobe.
That's open to interpretation.  Perhaps EarlG doubts that I'm straight, and perhaps EarlG is a homophobe.

Quote from: Gina on May 23, 2012, 11:38:30 AM
Are you here out of malice
Do you mean malice against DU?  I've seen posts on Conservative Cave about Boojatta, but I cannot recall anything here that I would complain about.
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Offline Gina

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2012, 11:52:06 AM »
I mean are you here for intelligent discussion and ribbing or are you just here to cause chaos?  We don't boot anyone of any political affiliation like the DUmp.  I like to listen to both sides and also debate my side.  I just don't care for OWS type posters that are only here to cause the most havoc they can.
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Offline Zeus

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2012, 11:52:20 AM »
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Why is the Pledge of Allegiance Important

The Pledge of Allegiance, written in 1892 is an oath or symbol of loyalty of the Americans towards their flag and country. This article dwells on why is the Pledge of Allegiance important to the Americans...

Today, the words of the Pledge of Allegiance reads: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. The meaning of this Pledge is as follows:

I pledge allegiance - I promise to be true
to the flag - to the symbol of our country
of the United States of America - each state that has joined to make our country
and to the Republic - a republic is a country where the people choose their representatives, to make laws for them, that is the government is for the people
for which it stands - the flag, meaning the country
one nation - a single nation
under God - the people believe in a supreme being
➢indivisible - the country cannot be split into parts
➢with liberty and justice - with freedom and fairness
➢for all - for each person in the country, you and me!

In a nut shell, by reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, every American promises to be true to the United States of America. The freedom available will not be taken for granted and each American will remember the countless men, women and children who have given their lives through the centuries, so that they can live peacefully today.

By Priya Johnson
Last Updated: 2/20/2012
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It is said that branches draw their life from the vine. Each is separate yet all are one as they share one life giving stem . The Bible tells us we are called to a similar union in life, our lives with the life of God. We are incorporated into him; made sharers in his life. Apart from this union we can do nothing.

Offline Boojatta

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Re: Let's Bash the Pledge!
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2012, 11:55:17 AM »
Quote from: Gina on May 23, 2012, 11:26:04 AM
Are you a member of the DUmp?
I think that the subthread starting with what you wrote above should be moved here:

Forum > The Bar > Introductions & Subsequent Welcomes

What do you think?
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