The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: 5412 on February 11, 2009, 10:03:23 PM
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Hi,
This is my first post. I read an article over the weekend that I found very interesting. This was validated by someone checking the State of AZ website. In a follow up article today the author said the reason states are affirming their sovereignty is that federal mandates are basically unconstitutional and they are bankrupting several states; CA in particular. Not so sure if there may not be more to it that than but we will see.
regards to all conservatives,
5412
Here is the text: The headline was what I posted, "Is this a prelude to secession?"
This week, various state legislatures introduced bills intended to revive
> one of the most important gifts left to us by our forefathers.state
> sovereignty.
>
> No, you won't hear about this on CNBC or Fox News. In fact, we just got word
> of it a few hours ago. All the way from Hawaii to New Hampshire.Georgia and
> California, nine states have so far introduced bills that would reaffirm
> state sovereignty as laid out in the ninth and tenth amendments to the
> constitution.
>
> Now - like I said - we just heard about this news ourselves. And we haven't
> had enough time to really decide what it all means.but there is some strong
> wording in a few of these bills, to say the very least.
>
> This from Arizona's bill, ".if the President or any other federal entity
> attempts to institute martial law or its equivalent without an official
> declaration in one or more of the states without the consent of that state .
> individual members of the military return to their respective states and
> report to the Governor until a new President is elected." [emphasis added]
>
> We'll stay on top of this one and update you next week.
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Who are you again?
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Is this a prelude to secession?
No.
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Hi,
Who am I? I am a new poster, referred here by a friend from another board, Thundley 4. I use the name 5412.
I never realized what a Reagan Democrat was, I always thought I was a Carter Republican, twas nitwit Carter who caused me to vote Republican and have been doing it ever since.
regards,
5412
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No big name sources reporting This place (http://freedomarizona.org/2009/02/05/9-states-quietly-declare-their-independence/)(which is no more than the first result in a search) has a more detailed story and includes the following :
UPDATE: A reader has brought it to our attention that none of these resolutions or bills have officially passed into law in the 9 listed states. Though they are not State law yet, I encourage readers in each of these states to contact their representatives and government officials. It’s a matter of principle that our individual States of this Union maintain their sovereignty, even though they’re united in the great American spirit.
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Hi again,
I tried to follow up today and found one forum where the author surmised what I posted earlier.
I thought this thread was whacked and wondered what I did wrong, I think it got moved under another heading.
Honestly I was feeling that stimulus bill had a lot of money for the states and it may have been to either diffuse some of the issues or perhaps they would use it as a club. I would not put it past BO to threaten to withhold funding if states had the audacity to reaffirm their sovereignty.
regards,
5412
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welcome to CC
interesting idea...
btw Cali didn't need fed help to go bankrupt :whatever:
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Hi,
Amen on California.
I am sure you saw the thing making the round on the internet about the "illegal" (now a forbidden word in BO's administration I am told) immigrants on their health care system, in gangs and in their jails. When they get stuck with federal mandates and little funding it hits them pretty hard. At the same time, they manage to have their own problems on top of that.
As I have told my family, it is like the old song, we have only just begun. In the next few years we are all going to be shaking our heads at some of the insanity we see going on.
Have a good day,
5412
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Secession is the wrong idea.
There's nothing wrong with this nation that a little constitutional enforcement couldn't cure. To destroy the US and with it the security guaranty of the free world is a view so short-sighted as to be contemptible. What is needed to to clean house politically in both parties. The American people are conservative by nature but we need to have a "water cooler revolution" whereby we impress upon our friends, coworkers, family, acquaintences and even the odd passerby that limited government, strong defense, free markets and personal responsibility are the keys to safety and prosperity.
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I don't think any states want to secede, but they want to inform the Fed that enough is enough, stop usurping the rights guaranteed to the states in the Constitution. Secession is just a way of hammering the point home.
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I'm all for secession. I want no part of the moonbats from NE, the PNW, the W, or the W. ....but hey, that's just me.
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I'm all for secession. I want no part of the moonbats from NE, the PNW, the W, or the W. ....but hey, that's just me.
Secession works for me too. I heard this brought up on Glenn Beck this morning, and apparently Thomas Jefferson and James Madison weren't exactly opposed to it either. But what do they know: they're just key to the founding documents and principles they established this nation's government by.
The Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions(or Resolves) were important political statements in favor of states' rights written secretly by Vice President Thomas Jefferson (who would later become president) and James Madison in 1798, respectively. They were passed by the two states in opposition to the federal Alien and Sedition Acts. Though often mentioned as a pair in modern historical discussions, they were actually two separate documents. The Kentucky Resolutions (plural) were written by Jefferson and passed by the state legislature on November 16, 1798, with one more being passed the following year on December 3, 1799. The Virginia Resolution (singular) was written by Madison and passed by the state legislature on December 24, 1798. Jefferson and Madison collaborated on the writing of the two documents, but their authorship was not known for many years. The resolutions attacked the Sedition Acts, which extended the powers of the federal government. The resolutions declared that the Constitution was a "compact." That is, it was an agreement among the states. The federal government had no right to exercise powers not specifically delegated to it; should the federal government assume such powers, its acts under them would be void. Thus it was the right of the states to decide as to the constitutionality of such laws passed by Congress.
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I'm all for secession. I want no part of the moonbats from NE, the PNW, the W, or the W. ....but hey, that's just me.
I'm not prepared to give up the military assets: Ft Drum, West Point, Annapolis, Nine Palms, the SEAL training center in San Diego, etc etc etc
Then there's the natural resources.
Besides, liberal freely admit they must be ruled by an iron hand, it may as well be us.
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I'm not prepared to give up the military assets: Ft Drum, West Point, Annapolis, Nine Palms, the SEAL training center in San Diego, etc etc etc
Then there's the natural resources.
Besides, liberal freely admit they must be ruled by an iron hand, it may as well be us.
good idea. conservatives in lib states get guard towers with miniguns
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good idea. conservatives in lib states get guard towers with miniguns
Oh please.
The little fags are cowed by a glowering stare.
We'll save the guard towers for the southern border.
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Oh please.
The little fags are cowed by a glowering stare.
We'll save the guard towers for the southern border.
I thought that's where we were sowing the mine field.
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I thought that's where we were sowing the mine field.
Nah
The guard towers are so we have a place to sit, drink beer and watch as the rottwiellers that shoot exploding chainsaws when they bark do their job.
VRWC Employee of the Month gets front-center sea during the Debbbie Schlussel-Laura Ingraham Jell-O Wrestling Halftime Show.
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I'm not prepared to give up the military assets: Ft Drum, West Point, Annapolis, Nine Palms, the SEAL training center in San Diego, etc etc etc
Then there's the natural resources.
Besides, liberal freely admit they must be ruled by an iron hand, it may as well be us.
Trust me, MOST soldiers are prepared to give up Ft. Drum. As for 29 Palms, Annapolis, West Point, Coronado, etc., we have the same assets. Texas would come with us for desert training, so NTC could be held at Hood or Bliss, SEAL training could be done in NC or at Eglin, and we already have the JFK Warfare Center. Hell, we have the Air Assault School, the Airborne School, the Ranger school, SFAS, etc. They don't want to live with us, I don't want to live with those ****ing moonbats. I don't hate my country, quite the contrary. I LOVE it. I LOVE the US Constitution. I'm just sick of seeing it shit on. Now, it's either secession or full blown revolution....with a lot of dead moonbats as the toll. Which would you prefer?
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Trust me, MOST soldiers are prepared to give up Ft. Drum. As for 29 Palms, Annapolis, West Point, Coronado, etc., we have the same assets. Texas would come with us for desert training, so NTC could be held at Hood or Bliss, SEAL training could be done in NC or at Eglin, and we already have the JFK Warfare Center. Hell, we have the Air Assault School, the Airborne School, the Ranger school, SFAS, etc. They don't want to live with us, I don't want to live with those ****ing moonbats. I don't hate my country, quite the contrary. I LOVE it. I LOVE the US Constitution. I'm just sick of seeing it shit on. Now, it's either secession or full blown revolution....with a lot of dead moonbats as the toll. Which would you prefer?
I refuse to see why we must cede ANYTHING to misbegotten usurpers. It's ours, they stole it, we have the right to take it back. You wouldn't concede your garden shed just because stoner hippy started squatting in it and listed it to collect his welfare check, would you?
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I refuse to see why we must cede ANYTHING to misbegotten usurpers. It's ours, they stole it, we have the right to take it back. You wouldn't concede your garden shed just because stoner hippy started squatting in it and listed it to collect his welfare check, would you?
Sir, Secession only determines the opening positions of the two sides. Once the liberal ****nuts are separated and on their own, we can either let them starve to death after their "support system" - the hard working bunch upon whose backs these welfare whores have been living for most of their "adult" life - is removed, or we can send the boy scouts into NeoCommie territory to take what we want.
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Oceanside south will go with us. The jarheads will probably be happy to get rid of Barstow, 29 shits and Yuma. Nevada would go with us so we keep nellis and Fallon. The Dakotas, Wyoming, Montana, nebraska, Oklahoma, Kansas, Texas, Arkansa will all go with us...........so we basically get everything except a couple bases in the NE and the Kitsap are would probably go also
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Oh yeah...............it's never gonna happen
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Oh please.
The little fags are cowed by a glowering stare.
We'll save the guard towers for the southern border.
every 100 feet I hope... lol.. thats a lot of stimulus jobs
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If there is another secession do we get to burn down Georgia again? :-)
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If there is another secession do we get to burn down Georgia again? :-)
Sure, you can be the first bullet-catcher. I think it can be done......'cause I seen it in the movies. You can prove the hypothesis.
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....and just to add, if there IS another civil war, you northern and left coast people are ****ed. Better pick sides.
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....and just to add, if there IS another civil war, you northern and left coast people are ****ed. Better pick sides.
I'd be much obliged if Kentucky (with my help in "The Resistance") would lay claim to Cincinnati. I'm only three miles from the river and Ohio is purple enough to split into two new states. Cincy/Dayton and South Columbus would be happy to join wth the "South". I-70 could be the dividing line. We would have to negotiate a trade of somekind however in which the Ohio State Buckeyes could be moved a few miles South and in exchange, North Columbus could have the Bengals.
:uhsure: :uhsure:
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Hi again,
I just posted what I read. As far as secession goes, for some it may seem easier than trying to fix what is really broke.
While some serious secession talk might cause some meaningful discussion, I just do not see the word compromise in the vocabulary, much less the mind set of the wackos. The minority special interest groups now rule this country and we are sending billions to our enemies for oil because of it.
Bet if the libs got hungry enough they would learn to love spotted owl......
5412
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To Rearden:
....and therein lies the reason it'll be the bloodiest war in the history of this country, Rearden. Hell, Atlanta is blue. Jackson is blue. Memphis is blue. Every major city in the south is blue. Hell, I think every city in the country is blue. ....but there's no affiliation towards the state. There's no affinity. There's no love. It's only to Uncle Sugar. It's MUCH different than it was in 1860. There IS no state identity. No, that shit left when the 17th Amendment was passed. We need to get BACK to the way the country was founded. Hell, our founders started a war and poured tea into a harbor over tea taxes. We bend over and take it up the ass with income taxes that were taken right out of the Communist Manifesto. It'll be bloody, but I think it's about damn time to get this country BACK to it's roots. I.e. STOP making people pay for people they don't even ****ing know.
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Hi,
Past my bedtime but I really have to agree with your post.
One small thing that got by most people. The senate authorized several million dollars to study the descendents of slavery and investigate the idea of reparation. Now the way I see it is simple. Just because my great, great, great, great granddaddy may have been mean to your great, great, great, great granddaddy does not mean I owe you shit....and vice versa.
Now you just know what the study will recommend and BO is already on record as being in favor of that idea. Hey a little transfer of wealth never hurt anyone..... Think what will happen if that gets to congress with the liberal media fanning the flames......even if it gets voted down the war will begin.
Personally secession should be the last resort and I think it could be done without firing a shot. There would be a lot of deck shuffling. If Texas goes first and announces there will be no living off the government as a lifestyle of choice, and we will be glad to buy you a one way ticket to anywhere, I suspect many would take them up on that. Hell that honestly took place in AL when I was a kid. They would go in for their welfare check and get a one way bus ticket to Chicago or Detroit.
Why do I think secession would be bloodless? Lincoln had the slavery issue to sell the north on going to war. At this point I doubt too many of them would be willing to fight so they would say let em go, just the path of least resistence.
nite,
5412
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To Rearden:
....and therein lies the reason it'll be the bloodiest war in the history of this country, Rearden. Hell, Atlanta is blue. Jackson is blue. Memphis is blue. Every major city in the south is blue. Hell, I think every city in the country is blue. ....but there's no affiliation towards the state. There's no affinity. There's no love. It's only to Uncle Sugar. It's MUCH different than it was in 1860. There IS no state identity. No, that shit left when the 17th Amendment was passed. We need to get BACK to the way the country was founded. Hell, our founders started a war and poured tea into a harbor over tea taxes. We bend over and take it up the ass with income taxes that were taken right out of the Communist Manifesto. It'll be bloody, but I think it's about damn time to get this country BACK to it's roots. I.e. STOP making people pay for people they don't even ******* know.
Yeah, we passed the point of no return long ago. No kind of civil war is even concievable to me really. Just can't happen. Not without mass migration of the blue-ist to the blue stongholds and the red-ist to the red. For example Bush voting Cincinnati divided from Kucinich voting Cleveland etc etc all over the U.S of A.
There is no State loyalty of any kind in America outside of college football fans. There is no civil war coming as the DUmmies spoke of during the Bush years. Not in my lifetime anyway and far beyond it too. There is no option but revolution, which ironically (to us Consittution lovers) is all but unspeakable. The genius of the left (or lazynes of the right) lies in the fact that we let them steal the definition of the words in the Constitution. It's almost Orwellian. Freedom no longer means "freedom from government rule" it now means (to the ears of the great unwashed) "freedom from want".
We are "beyond good and evil" in the tragic sense of Nietzsche, B.F. Skinner and Freud. All the philosophers of the last 200 years and more have turned the morality of the world into a meaningless pale grey. We are more than a few generations into a national idea that the most dangerous person in the world is anyone who thinks they are right. They scream "there are no absolutes" ignoring the fact that the statement itself is an absolute. Anyone who thinks they are right is wrong by virtue of the fact that thinking your right is "close minded". (whatever the virtue of your case)
I'm drunk and babbling.... sry
The point is (Ithink) no civil war is possible and, no revolution is really possible. All that is left is callapse and rebuilding with a stronger foundation. The optimist in me says that may not be as horrible as either of the two above options. and may come sooner than either bad option
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Hi Folks,
Here is a bit of an update on this issue. Glen Beck had the guy from NH on tonight and I read another blurb from a service I subscribe to that went into great detail. I took away two points.
First of all we are now up to 20 states that have some sort of resolution. That, in itself, is unique. Now resolutions are just that, not laws.
At the same time the guy from NH said that thier bill says that the US government must abide by the constitution and respect state sovereignty and if they fail to do so then they basically have nullified the constitution, there is none. He said the goal would be to get back to where the federal government indeed does govern according to our rules.
He was then asked about secession and his response was this, "If there is no Constitution, then there is no Union!"
For gun advocates that was one item specifically mentioned in the NH resolution, that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed upon in their states and he particularly referred to the crap they stuck in the stimulus package concerning that issue.
I suspect for their next trick they are going to take on the gun owners knowing full well if they take guns it is the law abiding citizens that will turn them in and in turn have no means to protect themselves. They ignore the facts of course. Over 25 states have passed the laws giving citizens the right to carry and reaffirming their right to protect themselves and violent crime is down in each one of these states according to the last FBI statistics.
regards,
5412
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....and just to add, if there IS another civil war, you northern and left coast people are ****ed. Better pick sides.
I maybe from Iowa but if its a choice between joining you or the Liberal asshats then I'm joining you
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I maybe from Iowa but if its a choice between joining you or the Liberal asshats then I'm joining you
Smart decision, though probably not a hard one to come to
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I'm hopeful, but doubtful that maybe Illinois will go back Republican during the next election cycle. Of course the last Republican was no better than Blago, but still.....
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Why let those fags keep so much as an inch of our country? They couldn't make it or keep it on their own, letting them have any of it is selling out. You guys wouldn't support welfare for those idiots why give them their own nation they could never earn on their own?
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Why let those fags keep so much as an inch of our country? They couldn't make it or keep it on their own, letting them have any of it is selling out. You guys wouldn't support welfare for those idiots why give them their own nation they could never earn on their own?
About the only advantage I see, is that by letting the opening positions be drawn up on "Red State/Blue State" lines (or hell, even Red county/Blue county), letting them suffer the natural consequences of their own ineptitude, and then taking the blue territory from them would be to log such a lesson in darwinism in the history books that it would be useful to put down NeoCommie-ism in it's infancy for the next thousand years.
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About the only advantage I see, is that by letting the opening positions be drawn up on "Red State/Blue State" lines (or hell, even Red county/Blue county), letting them suffer the natural consequences of their own ineptitude, and then taking the blue territory from them would be to log such a lesson in darwinism in the history books that it would be useful to put down NeoCommie-ism in it's infancy for the next thousand years.
Think Korea.
It's only a matter of time until the northern side of that equation implodes...but the economic and social expense to the south will set them back by decades.
There is no value in allowing the inevitable take its course especially since we will still be the ones paying for it in the long run.
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Think Korea.
It's only a matter of time until the northern side of that equation implodes...but the economic and social expense to the south will set them back by decades.
There is no value in allowing the inevitable take its course especially since we will still be the ones paying for it in the long run.
A very valid point.
Though it does seem to me that the North Koreans are a mit more feisty than the DUmmies, and have made preparations with the tools necessary to carry that fight to the enemy. The DUmmies have made no such preparations.
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A very valid point.
Though it does seem to me that the North Koreans are a mit more feisty than the DUmmies, and have made preparations with the tools necessary to carry that fight to the enemy. The DUmmies have made no such preparations.
The NorKs are no more in a position to fight than the DUmmies. They are welfare basket cases. I see no reason to even pretend the DUmmies have a legitmate claim to their own nation; not even the NE libs. Could those idiots have found the spine, guns or endurance to fight George III or any subsequent threat to the US since then?
They only possess what we give them. It's time we started acting like real conservatives and stop giving a bunch of lazy shitbags the rewards of the labors of better men and women.