Officials ordered to stop prayer at schools

[rubliw]

Silence is not prayer. Prayer is not silence.

People can pray silently in moments of silence, though.... they even do this in church.  Why can you not see the very real distinction here... no one has forced prayer out of public schools in this case...  its simply been decided it isnt appropriate in the hands of school officials, who also subject non-religious people to prayers by way of mandatory participation.  Bottom line is this: should you or anyone else be forced to pray to gods they don't believe in in order to attend public school?

Only a few years ago, public schools began their days with prayer. Those prayers were in the name of Christ, which is a good thing, since that is the only prayer God hears. Now, we are being told that the U.S. Constitution prohibits these prayers. One of two things has happened. 1) Recent legal scholarship has discovered an aspect to the U.S. Constitution that no one noticed, or enforced, until recently; or, 2) the Constitution has practically been altered by a new approach to interpreting it.

I was in public school all through the 80's and we never opened our days with prayer.  We had moments of silence, the pledge, and the national anthem.

Was there a yet undiscovered portion of the constitution that allowed us to free the slaves?  Or was it simply reinterpretation?  Arent you the one who's also suggesting that we just re-write the constitution and get rid of any prohibition of state religion? 

Either way, the Lord Jesus Christ is being insulted. Since we need His blessing to succeed at what we do, we are going to reap the fruits of our own folly.

Quite honestly, the mentality you have is dangerous and the stuff religious wars are made of... I'm almost tempted to call you a phony though...   probably a troll just having some fun.

[MrsSmith]

It is undeniable that the Constitution has been perverted.  Our founding fathers quite clearly stated that religious speech is protected and Congress can write no laws to silence it...which is why the left has used the court system to "write" laws.  Even Jefferson knew they'd left a loophole for the unelected, unaccountable judges to create an oligarchy, and the generations between have never closed it.  Now we not only live in an unconstitutional oligarchy, but we even allow public schools to brainwash our students into idiots.  Just think, if wilbur's school had not been silenced, perhaps he'd have grown into some real knowledge by now.   

[Chris_]

People can pray silently in moments of silence, though.... they even do this in church.  Why can you not see the very real distinction here... no one has forced prayer out of public schools in this case...  its simply been decided it isnt appropriate in the hands of school officials, who also subject non-religious people to prayers by way of mandatory participation.  Bottom line is this: should you or anyone else be forced to pray to gods they don't believe in in order to attend public school?  Where is this forced participation?

I was in public school all through the 80's and we never opened our days with prayer.  We had moments of silence, the pledge, and the national anthem.  Your loss.

Was there a yet undiscovered portion of the constitution that allowed us to free the slaves?  Or was it simply reinterpretation?  Arent you the one who's also suggesting that we just re-write the constitution and get rid of any prohibition of state religion? 

Quite honestly, the mentality you have is dangerous and the stuff religious wars are made of... I'm almost tempted to call you a phony though...   probably a troll just having some fun.

[rubliw]

The forced participation is obvious.  Lets call a spade a spade here and cease obfuscating officially led prayer as an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it.

All you have to do is ask yourself what you would do if your kids were in the same situation... only the teacher was praying to Allah, or Vishnu.... what would you do then?  Would you say its fine and that your kids don't have a right not to be offended?

[Chris_]

The forced participation is obvious.  Lets call a spade a spade here and cease obfuscating officially led prayer as an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it.

All you have to do is ask yourself what you would do if your kids were in the same situation... only the teacher was praying to Allah, or Vishnu.... what would you do then?  Would you say its fine and that your kids don't have a right not to be offended?

Ah, sill no evidence of "forced participation", eh Wilbur? "an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it" <<< your own words....it's either optional or forced.  It can't be both.

Still waiting for that quote from the COTUS where we have the right to not be offended.  If you can find it, please let me know.  We can shut down the MSM and the DNC immediately.

[rubliw]

Ah, sill no evidence of "forced participation", eh Wilbur? "an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it" <<< your own words....it's either optional or forced.  It can't be both.

"Lets call a spade a spade here and cease obfuscating officially led prayer as an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it."   I wasnt calling it optional although the sentences meaning could be more clear this way: 

"Lets call a spade a spade here and cease obfuscating the situation by denying that officially led prayer couched as an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it, is actually optional."

Still waiting for that quote from the COTUS where we have the right to not be offended.  If you can find it, please let me know.  We can shut down the MSM and the DNC immediately.

Your teacher prays to Allah out loud, in class, while urging your kids to say the words and forces them to sit through it..... should they just sit there and be offended? I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone around who would simply rest at saying "well your kids don't have a right not to be offended"

[thundley4]

Your teacher prays to Allah out loud, in class, while urging your kids to say the words and forces them to sit through it..... should they just sit there and be offended? I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone around who would simply rest at saying "well your kids don't have a right not to be offended"

Students have been forced to emulate the Islamic faith in schools under the guise of multiculturalism.

[Chris_]

"Lets call a spade a spade here and cease obfuscating officially led prayer as an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it."   I wasnt calling it optional although the sentences meaning could be more clear this way: 

"Lets call a spade a spade here and cease obfuscating the situation by denying that officially led prayer couched as an optional exercise for those who are forced to sit through it, is actually optional."

Your teacher prays to Allah out loud, in class, while urging your kids to say the words and forces them to sit through it..... should they just sit there and be offended? I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone around who would simply rest at saying "well your kids don't have a right not to be offended"

I don't care what other people say.  They can choose to be offended or not.  Where does the COTUS say that we have the right not to be offended?  Where are we provided the right to not to be exposed ideas we don't like?

[Sam Adams]

People can pray silently in moments of silence, though.... they even do this in church.  Why can you not see the very real distinction here... no one has forced prayer out of public schools in this case...  its simply been decided it isnt appropriate in the hands of school officials, who also subject non-religious people to prayers by way of mandatory participation.  Bottom line is this: should you or anyone else be forced to pray to gods they don't believe in in order to attend public school?

I was in public school all through the 80's and we never opened our days with prayer.  We had moments of silence, the pledge, and the national anthem.

Was there a yet undiscovered portion of the constitution that allowed us to free the slaves?  Or was it simply reinterpretation?  Arent you the one who's also suggesting that we just re-write the constitution and get rid of any prohibition of state religion? 

Quite honestly, the mentality you have is dangerous and the stuff religious wars are made of... I'm almost tempted to call you a phony though...   probably a troll just having some fun.

I assure you I am not a troll.

Here is what's missing from your posts: Any consideration of the right the Lord Jesus Christ  has to be honored as the King of Kings and the Lord of lords. The question is not whether people can pray whereever they are. the question is whether government (e.g. public schools is going to give Christ the honor He deserves. I realize we all learned something or other about the separation of church and state in our high school civics classes, but we have the right to question the conventional wisdom. Yet that's exactly what most people do not do.

[rubliw]

Students have been forced to emulate the Islamic faith in schools under the guise of multiculturalism.

I know it has happened.... and the school in that case was sued... by both atheist and Christian families alike, IIRC... and they are right to, just like in this case.

[Chris_]

I know it has happened.... and the school in that case was sued... by both atheist and Christian families alike, IIRC... and they are right to, just like in this case.

Wonder why you haven't answered this question:

Where does the COTUS say that we have the right not to be offended?  Where are we provided the right to not to be exposed ideas we don't like?

[Sam Adams]

Here's another point: Schools should help their students to become better people. That would include teaching them to pray to the one true God.

[rubliw]

Wonder why you haven't answered this question:

Why won't you answer mine?  I have answered yours.. this transgression is more than a simple matter of personal offence.

[Sam Adams]

People can pray silently in moments of silence, though.... they even do this in church.  Why can you not see the very real distinction here...

Why can't you see the distinction between silence and prayer? Yes, I know people can pray silently during moments of silence. People can pray silently while their television set is on, too, but a television set is not a prayer.

Bottom line is this: should you or anyone else be forced to pray to gods they don't believe in in order to attend public school?

Actually, no, that is NOT the bottom line. The bottom line is whether God is going to be honored in our schools, or will we do everything we can to remove Him from the premises. No one was being forced to pray to anything.

[Chris_]

Why won't you answer mine? 

What question?

I have answered yours..

No.  You haven't.

this transgression is more than a simple matter of personal offence.

Again:
Where does the COTUS say that we have the right not to be offended?  Where are we provided the right to not to be exposed ideas we don't like?

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

Thats a mighty bit different from "exerting government force to prevent possible mandatory participation of non-Christians in Christian prayers". 

Thats the rub in all these little stories... no one has prevented you from prayer, nor is going to.  Who woulda thunk that non-Christians actually do not like being coerced by officials, teachers, judges, whom ever to pray to gods they don't believe in?  People actually martyr themselves for this sort of thing (or even less), yet here people are trying to justify more of it for a happy society.  Brilliant!

What are you even talking about?

I'm no Christian, in fact if God exists I'm more than likely riding the greased flagpole to Hell, but I am at a loss for examples of Christians compelling non-Christians to pray with the force of executive sanction. Yet, the opposite is quite true.

[Sam Adams]

Force people to pray? How is that even possible? I was a substitute teacher in the public schools. We cannot even get the kids to class on time. They won't even sit down, unless they are in the mood.

The previous poster is correct. Christians (at least in modern times) don't force people to do anything.

Here's what could happen: At the beginning of the school day, someone comes over the PA system, and intones, "Let us pray...," with the clear understanding on everyone's part that there are no consequences to not praying. The atheists have their moment of silence, while the Christians pray.

Would that make the earth stop spinning on its axis?

[MrsSmith]

Since the same Thomas Jefferson that penned the "immortal" line about the wall of separation also purchased Bibles for the schools in his area, it seems highly unlikely that he would have a problem with a moment of silence, a non-denominational prayer, or even **gasp** a prayer that mentions Jesus!!!  The Supreme Court pulled that wall crap out of the same place as the Dred Scott decision and the Roe v Wade decision...they're all B@))$hit.

[Sam Adams]

I'm no Christian, in fact if God exists I'm more than likely riding the greased flagpole to Hell,

That condition is avoidable.

[SSG Snuggle Bunny]

That condition is avoidable.

I never said it wasn't. I merely noted it wasn't for me.

[Sam Adams]

I never said it wasn't. I merely noted it wasn't for me.

I sincerely hope you will change your mind about that. It's offered to everyone.