Primitives enlighten us on the M-16 weapon family...

[Rebel]

The 30-30 is the round mentioned by Kennedy as the round that is a vest buster and should be banned.

I hear teflon-coated work pretty well also.

[Tucker]

I hear teflon-coated work pretty well also.

That would be the KTW rounds that were labeled as cop killer bullets. They got banned after two cops were killed with them. One got shot in the side where there were no panel and the other one got shot in the head.

Any rifle round will penetrate a level ll vest. Most rifle rounds will penetrate a level lll vest.

[Tucker]

Didja ever see that video of the guy holding the steel plate while some other dude shot it with a FAL from about 10 yards?

No. Did it punch a hole in it?

[DumbAss Tanker]

Surprisingly not.  I forget how thick it was, but it knocked the guy back a bit when it hit the plate.  He was all dressed in Class III to hold the plate, but I still think he either very brave or very stupid.

I'll go with "B" for $400, Alex.

 

[Peter3_1]

Stateside, we refered to the M-16 as the "Mattie Matel"  rifle. Most of us prefered the old M-14 and the 7.62 round. Der. Stoner did develope a formidable weapons system  that eventually gave us the M-15 out of the AR-15. But it was supposed to be a rifle, carbine and a SAW  FROM DAY ONE. But the "gumment" , as always, knew better.

[Tucker]

Surprisingly not.  I forget how thick it was, but it knocked the guy back a bit when it hit the plate.  He was all dressed in Class III to hold the plate, but I still think he either very brave or very stupid.

I'd vote very stupid. What was his DUmmy name.

[Rebel]

Stateside, we refered to the M-16 as the "Mattie Matel"  rifle. Most of us prefered the old M-14 and the 7.62 round. Der. Stoner did develope a formidable weapons system  that eventually gave us the M-15 out of the AR-15. But it was supposed to be a rifle, carbine and a SAW  FROM DAY ONE. But the "gumment" , as always, knew better.

Peter, you need an avatar, mang.

BTW, I don't know how many of you know this, but Peter, if I'm not mistaken, was in the infantry during the Vietnam War. He's just not one to brag about it like the ones who NEVER went, like TominTib.

[Rebel]

As for me, in a fight, I'd rather be throwing .308s at them from 600 yards while they try to get in range to shoot back at me.

Well, as for me, I'd rather be throwing grenades at the f'ers. 

Hell, manually or with an M-79 or 203. Doesn't matter. MK-19 would be nice. 

[Tucker]

I have a Bushie M4, and I like the rifle, I shoot crappy Wolf ammo out of it most of the time, and it never gives me any problems, but, it's a semi, not a select fire.

As for me, in a fight, I'd rather be throwing .308s at them from 600 yards while they try to get in range to shoot back at me.

Did I ever mention that I do have an FAL? With my DPMS LR-308.

[Tucker]

I love the rifles Tucker, but damn, .308 is like buying gold right now.

Remember, I'm getting a divorce and money is something that you need only if you don't die today.

[Peter3_1]

I was Mech. Inf. but was fortunate to stay stateside. I served with the 1/61 inf, 1/10 inf  and 2/10 inf.. Sheer luck of the screwed up Puzzle Palace left me without order for RVN, untill it was too late. .

[Airwolf]

I wonder what a 30.06 armor piercing round would have done to that steel plate and the level III behind it? It has a tungsten steel core not a lead one like ball ammo.

[Peter3_1]

What color is the tip on those? I have a couple dozen link belt and loose rounds  with black tipsfrom the early 1950's. If you'd like them.

[Tucker]

What color is the tip on those? I have a couple dozen link belt and loose rounds  with black tipsfrom the early 1950's. If you'd like them.

Black. I bought some AP rounds for my 03A3 while in Tennessee last week.

[Peter3_1]

Thought so. But I don't own anything that is chambered .30-'06.

[Gwitness]

greyhound1966 (1000+ posts)        Wed Oct-22-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
14. Over-complicated design and too much shell for a .22.
 IIRC, the idea of using a 30-30 case and necking it down for a .22 cal bullet came from the military itself. The original rifle and the round it was designed for was supposed to be very accurate and reliable.

In typical DoD fashion, instead of going with simple and reliable, we get the opposite because profits are much bigger and who cares if a few losers die because of it? If they had anything going for them they wouldn't be in the services.

Oh, how I hate these ****ers!

The .223 round is a derivative of the .222 Remington...not the .308 or the .30-30

[GOBUCKS]

The .223 round is a derivative of the .222 Remington...not the .308 or the .30-30

Of course. It's really surprising that even a DUmmy would be making statements like they did. Anyone who had ever seen a .30-30 round, and a .223 or .222, would see the only similarity is the fact the cases are made of brass. It's surprising such a moron has ever heard the term "necked down".

I use both .300 Savage and .222 Rem. a lot.
One similarity is that in the '50s both were available and extremely popular in the Remington 722, and I believe for a short time both were chambered in Win. Model 70.

Both rounds are rimless, and that's about it.

The Savage is great for whitetails, and the .222 is a groundhog machine.
 

[BlueStateSaint]

The .223 round is a derivative of the .222 Remington...not the .308 or the .30-30

Ya might want to check that one--I found out that it was actually derived from the .300 Savage, which, as GOBUCKS said, is a great round for whitetails.  Had to do some digging around, but that's what I found.

[DumbAss Tanker]

Ya might want to check that one--I found out that it was actually derived from the .300 Savage, which, as GOBUCKS said, is a great round for whitetails.  Had to do some digging around, but that's what I found.

Dunno about that, and kinda doubt it.  I've read that they were indeed an "Improved" .222 Rem, which is why the commercial round was called ".223 Rem" (The true bullet diameter of both is .224, like virtually all center-fire .22s) in order to distinguish it from the existing round.  If you look at the .222 and .223 cases, they are identical in every way except the headstamkp markings and the fact that the .223 case is a few mm longer behind the bottleneck, in order to hold enough powder to boost the bullet velocity up to the 3200-3500 fps neighborhood required to make it a man-killer instead of a chuck-killer.

The .300 Savage on the other hand has no dimensions in common with the .223 Rem, in fact it looks like a 7.62X51 NATO's little brother (Slightly smaller in every dimension except the bullet).  If anything it looks like a stretched Russkii 7.62X39.   

[dutch508]

an M1 Garand, chambering a 30.06, will deal with DUmmie looters just fine.

[GOBUCKS]

The .300 Savage on the other hand has no dimensions in common with the .223 Rem, in fact it looks like a 7.62X51 NATO's little brother (Slightly smaller in every dimension except the bullet).  If anything it looks like a stretched Russkii 7.62X39.   

 
Agree. Savage overall length is significantly greater than .222 or .223, shoulder angle is sharper and relatively short, overall diameter is considerably higher. Case volume is roughly twice that of .222 or .223. I can load to within about 100-200 fps of .308 nominal velocity. Deer cannot feel the difference.

[Bondai]

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