Whovian (2,306 posts)
The great unmentionable evil.
That's right.
The ever-assaulted and insulted texts of the Bible should give way to the ravings of a bitter old poofter.
I seriously doubt Vidal will be in as wide a circulation 3,000 years hence.
And then they squabble over wether or not the word "decimate" comes from polytheist or monotheist Rome.
And then some n00b rolls in and proves that Vidal was not only a bitter old poofter but a shitty historian as well:
thucythucy (705 posts)
54. I think the word in question is "decimate"
Last edited Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:45 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
which was a Roman term for a Roman (pre-Christian) policy. The idea was to pick at random one out of ten people you wanted to punish, and execute them as an example. I believe this practice is described in "The Annals of Tacitus." I believe it's Tacitus as well who documents what happened when the Britons rebelled--this after their queen, seeking to make the Roman governor live up to the treaty signed under a previous emperor, was whipped and her daughters gang-raped as an example of Roman "justice." I think it's this account from which the famous phrase about the "Pax Romana" is taken -- "They bring everywhere a desolation and call it peace."
I'm no fan of sky gods, but I think it's silly to romanticize (another interesting word) the histories of pagan Rome, Greece, Egypt, etc. All their economies were built on slave labor. All of them--with the possible exception of Athens, and that for only a couple of generations, were brutal oligarchies where dissent was generally met with torture and death. War was just as brutal then as now, except we of course now have much deadlier arsenals with which to spread our desolation.
Read Thucycides "History of the Peloponnesian War," especially the chapter on the fate of the people of Melos. The Melosians tried to remain neutral in the war between Sparta and Athens. In retaliation, the Athenians conquered their land, massacred every adult male, and sold the women and children into slavery. This was how the Athenian "democracy" Of Pericles waged war--"the good guys" in most accounts of the struggle. And when the Romans finally conquered Carthage, they slaughtered and enslaved its population, leveled the city, and plowed the ground with salt so that no one could ever resettle that land. This was a deliberate policy of genocide and ecocide--this hundreds of years before the advent of Christianity as the state religion.
Patriarchal religion --and especially fundamentalisms derived there from -- is definitely a huge factor in the woes of the world, but as I say, I wouldn't want to pretend that all was wine and roses before its advent. And while I'm a great fan of Gore Vidal's, I think in this case he may be simplying things a bit.
This being the case than Vidal is utterly discrdited.
Not that this would be the only such instance.
cherokeeprogressive (13,874 posts)
26. "hence the loathing of women..."
That kind of stupid shit never fails to amuse...
DonCoquixote (4,788 posts)
27. well, look at this
What is the status of woman under the three Jerusalem faiths?
Despite the fact that all these faiths have female leaders, women who literally helped found the faith (Magdalene in Christianity, Ruth in Judaism, Khadjia in Islam) most of the denominations do not even let women be priests, or even use birth control.
I admit, my knowledge of Cherokee tradition is slight, but I do know that many of the First Nations have Female shamans that are not just tokens, but who are actively respected and listened to, even if they offend males. Let's be blunt, when is the last time you saw a female religious authority on the television that was from the Jerusalem faiths?
All of them speak of women as being "unclean" because of their period. While many do speak for women's issue, all of these faiths are well represented whenever there is an effort to curb female rights, whether it is the right to work, right to an equal paycheck, or to vote. Tel Aviv, Cairo, Houston Texas, you all see people that act, talk and think the same about women and their place.
Pictured above: Oppressed Christian woman.
And if I may add:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. -- Galatians 3:28
But that's Paulianity so I guess we should disregard that.
And then someone points out:
Comrade Grumpy (1,866 posts)
77. Hindu India seems to have some gender issues...
cecilfirefox (651 posts)
28. Because I might run for office someday I will never state this in a public manner, it would slay me-
But monotheism is probably one of the greatest evils in the history of human existence. Yes, there was war in the ancient pagan world, and there were divisions based off religion, but take a look at that time period- people as a whole weren't to torn up if someone believed a different thing or followed a different god(s). It was considered fine and normal, different civilizations had different deities, and that was okay. Without a shadow of doubt I agree with Mr. Vidal on this one.
I mean, how many times do you hear of Hindu's committing mass murder against folks? The only real religious violence they have is essentially spurred by Muslim & Hindu relations- arguably because of the attitude of Muslims. (I might get slammed for that last one, but I think there is some merit to the idea that its their faith that causes the consternation, not the one that essentially teaches that all paths to God are pretty much okay)
BTW -- this poster's avatar is the blue pagan pentacle.
How about the Hindu tradition of bride burning?
It was ended by colonial Brits who felt it offended their Christian sensibilities.
arely staircase (2,691 posts)
33. the polytheistic aztecs had to rip out a human heart just to make the sun come up everyday
eom
Festivito (11,888 posts)
30. He never did figure it out.
God starts as sexless, not male, tossing his literality. It is ego-centric man who creates the disconnect from God and the problems he lists. The jealousy is not jealousy, rather metaphor for an understatement of tenaciousness. ... (Those who tell do not know, those who know do not tell. Although they may try.)
Whovian (2,306 posts)
31. I feel that
Gore Vidal had a better handle on reality than most. Including you.
He wrote Caligula, FFS; and then claims Xtianity and Jews are evil.
cordelia (1,443 posts)
57. Gore Vidal - the man who called Roman Polanski's 13 year old rape victim
a "young hooker".
"I really don't give a ****. Look, am I going to sit and weep every time a young hooker feels as though she's been taken advantage of?" — Gore Vidal's "take on Polanski".
Wow.
He'd've made one helluva public school teacher.
whathehell (10,447 posts)
79. Gore Vidal - The man who also called President Clinton "white trash".
He can suck it, AFAIC.
Broken clock, I s'pose.
Waiting For Everyman (6,152 posts)
50. What about giving it a rest
at least at Christmas time??? Is that too much to ask?
Buzz Clik (25,079 posts)
74. Give it a rest? The evangelical atheists are tireless.
Atheists want the right to not practice religion in the privacy of their own homes or even in public places.
Monotheists? No such rights.
RKP5637 (23,225 posts)
53. Religion is all politics and a control mechanism for the masses. Get them believing in something
Last edited Wed Dec 26, 2012, 09:34 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
wherein one, a group, can manipulate them however wanted. ... and religion serves up great propaganda. And for many it's a real cash cow. And tax free to boot, what a lucrative deal.
And liberalism is a cult; my sig, QED.
The CCC (43 posts)
72. The great unmentionable evil.
Maybe his God, but not mine. If anything the mid 20th Century tyrants should have taught Mr. Vidal is that Atheism is every bit as vicious and mean murderous as Monotheism ever was.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022070429
