TVDOC, I have been a member of Conservative Cave for several years but haven't posted much. But I read you post with intrest, and though I agree that there is a crisis in Christiandom, there were some things that you said that I didn't understand what you meant. So being a Southern Baptist Conservative Pastor for 33 years I would like to converse with you on some of the points that you made. First
[I firmly believe that one can maintain a state of "grace" and redemption, relying only on ones personal faith, prayer, and communion with the roots of Christ's teachings.......without a "church"......]
I am not sure what you mean by the phrase communion with the roots of Christ's teachings. If you mean by that that salvation is based upon our acceptance of the person and work of Jesus Christ through repentant faith, and the person of Christ being that is is God and man in one person; and that the work of Christ is that he died on the cross for our sins, then I agree. The Bible is clear that faith is in a person, the person of Christ; and the salvation comes through is death on the cross.
[never losing sight of its primary mission, which is the spiritual health of its members......]
I must take exception with this point. According to Matthew 28:19-20 the primary mission of the Chruch is the spreading of the Gospel(v.19). But the spiritual health of the Chruch is a vital mission of the Chruch because after Jesus said to baptist them he said to teach them to observe all things. So I say the primary mission of the church is to first get people saved, the disciple them.
[.......services became little different than the Saturday night dinners at the country club after a round of golf.......they were "social" and not "spiritual".]
Here I wonder if there is not a dichotomy that many people make between the secular and the spritual. that is that ones spiritual life is sperate and distinct from one's social/secular life. I believe that to be a false dichotomy. I believe that in the Bible that we have a spiritual responsiblty to save the lost and disciple the save; and that we have a secular/social responsibility to "redeem the time" in the society in which we live. The Bible teaches that Christians have a social/secular responsibiliy that we redeem the time by being involved in secular activities[that incluces politics] that can impact our society for good. One of the reasons that our nation is in the mess it is in is that Christians have not been involved in the political arena so that they bring the influence of their Christian convictions into the political arena so as to be able to have the effect of the changes that Christian values bring.
I would type more but every time I type something it hides below the Post reply box and I have to keep scrolling down to see what I have typed. So I will simply stop with this.
Ok, Doc, what you said in in brackets. My statememts are in black without brackets.