d_r (113 posts) Fri Aug-21-09 10:06 PM
Original message
the health care and wait time thing
OK, I know that the statistics show that wait times in the US are as long or longer as those in other countries, with the exception that wait times for elective surgeries are shorter in the US.
But that bit of reality doesn't keep people from bringing up the argument that wait times are too long in Canada or the UK, or bringing up some hear say story about somebody they know from the UK who likes health care here better, and so on.
What I need help thinking through is this. When they say they are against universal health coverage because it will make wait times too long, are they really saying that what they want is for some people not to have access to health care so that they don't have to wait in a longer "line?" I mean, isn't that really what they are saying, that they would rather that a lot of people don't have access to health care so that they don't have to wait in "line" behind them?
I'm having a hard time thinking that people are that selfish, but is that the bottom line on that one? As long as I get mine, screw the other guy?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6366170The "statistics" DUmmy d_r quotes are, of course, bogus. But remember, these are DUmmies.
If anyone has an idea what DUmmy slipslidingaway is trying to say, please advise. Sounds like vestanumbers logic:
slipslidingaway (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-21-09 10:15 PM
1. What else could it mean, I suppose one could say that people
are scared they will lose their access, but if we were all in the same pool fighting together then we have a better chance of making the system a success.
???Sounds like all the passengers in the water when the Titanic went down. How'd that work out?
FLDCVADem (213 posts) Fri Aug-21-09 10:18 PM
3. I can't speak for other plans
But with our current insurance (Aetna, had it for 5 years) we've never had to wait more than a day to see a specialist, have a procedure (MRI, x-ray, etc).
I really don't see how adding 47 million people to the line can do anything but increase wait times. Not that I'm against adding them, but I do think it's obvious that wait times will increase.
DUmmy FLDCVADem will hopefully enjoy the remainder of his short visit to the DUmp.
slipslidingaway (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-21-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. We have no problem accessing doctors or procedures either,
but I'm willing to "give that up" for a Medicare for All program.
Yes, DUmmy, with O-care, you will certainly give all that up.
DUmmy havocmom is a bottomfeeding loser in life's lottery, who nonetheless has sent Skimmer an envelope full of food stamps:
havocmom (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-21-09 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. as ugly as it is:A) Yes some people ARE that selfish and B) the delivery system is broken
There are still the same amount of doctors. The doctors are spread too thin and spend too little time with individuals to actually provide real care.
Doctors who give up the fight for private practice and move to larger clinics seem to be under massive pressure to see as many people in a day as is humanly possible. The Corporations get more head count so more money? It's turning into McMedicine with medical corporations getting the profit for the volume.
We aren't getting reliable medical care. It's all about getting the herd through and bills sent.
Those who don't want reform are either all about the profit, or selfish fools being played by the profiteers.
Doctors and patients seem to be SOL as things stand now.
Hard to see how DUmmy havocmom could suggest this situation would be improved by having O-docs punching a clock and drawing
a salary from the O-care people. Seems to most of us their productivity would improve just like farm productivity in the Stalinist Ukraine
For those interested, a lagomorph is a bunny:
Lagomorph (278 posts) Fri Aug-21-09 10:56 PM
6. Extreme examples of the price of waiting...are floating around. Some illnesses are time critical and many of us are
simply used to getting prompt treatment.
Myself, I've been going to clinics for years. My doctor may make an appointment for diagnostics, but it may be weeks or months before I get seen for things like X-Rays or a CAT scan.
imdjh (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-21-09 11:12 PM
9. I have Humana and there is lag time, but not much
and not all that different from when I had good insurance.
When I had a nondescript pain in my foot, I got it xrayed the next day. When I had good insurance, they would have done it in the office. When I needed an ultrasound, it was a couple of days, but it wasn't something where days mattered.
The only thing that Humana tries to do that I simply will not put up with is having to go to someplace like Smith-Kline labs to have blood work. It's an inconsiderate waste of my time, and I don't like going to a place that doubles as a drug-enforcement facility for employers and the courts.
So now we know that the current broken system works well for a drug addict like DUmmy imdjh.
imdjh (1000+ posts) Fri Aug-21-09 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. What they believe is that the current system works best and the alternative is India
They grudgingly accept that the indigent and the uninsured are seen on demand for emergency medicine.
They believe that their preferred status and lifelong participation in existing private and public programs earns them on demand service while also paying for on demand service for the indigent or uninsured but through different doors. In essence, they believe that THEY are the golden goose ( and this included career military people who are quick to insist that they have earned their socialized benefits regardless of who is paying for them).
And they fear that if we go to a different system, any change whatsoever, they will have to wait in clinic and hospital waiting rooms with the great unwashed (literally), places out of a movie like some public hospital in Brooklyn in the 1930's, and that they will have no STATUS in that situation. They will not be in a position to complain or demand.
This DUmmy finally cuts to the chase and gives the real reason DUmmies are obsessed with socialized medicine.
They know it sucks, but to satisfy their class envy, they're willing to endure it.
