Bringing up Creationism and Noah turns CU into DU

[Chris_]

My faith hasn't been attacked.  FD is just showing a profound lack of it.

I am a Christian.

...you don't even see it, do you?

[Chris_]

"peer reviewed"...sounds like TNO.  BTW, "cause we said so" is pretty weak for a bunch of scientists who promote theory as fact.

No, "peer reviewed" means something in science.  It means that fellow scientists in the area of expertise have reviewed the material and found it independently validated.  And no one says a theory is a fact.  You need to learn what a scientific theory is. For example, the Theory of Gravity is a great debating point in scientific circles.  But since it is "only" a  theory, do you deny gravity? You are a lay person with little to no knowledge of these things.  Do you have an opinion on brain surgery?  Quantum Physics?  The Relational Model (this, BTW is my area of expertise)? 

...but if I choose to accept the analysis and evidence presented by those who disagree with your POV, I must be wrong...?   
In this Universe 1+1=2.  There is a SCIENTIFIC reason this is so -- it is based on Mathematical Theories.  The fact you don't understand those theories doesn't undo the conclusion.  It isn't a POV, it is provable, based on the underlying theories.

Well, you have chosen to suggest that billions of people throughout the world over many centuries who have studied a written history dating back thousands of years is false, the onus is on you to prove it....scientifically.  Good luck with that.

There is no such onus on me.  The Bible is a theological reference.  Or are you calling the Catholic Church and its BILLIONS of adherents wrong for understanding TToE?  When you decide the Bible is a scientific text, then you need to provide scientific proof supporting that allegation. 

Scientists don't "just say so."  They prove things using independent measurements and rigorous principles.  Faith "just says so."

[Chris_]

My faith hasn't been attacked.  FD is just showing a profound lack of it.

I am a Christian.

...you don't even see it, do you?

When you are obtuse, no.

[Chris_]

My faith hasn't been attacked.  FD is just showing a profound lack of it.

I am a Christian.

...you don't even see it, do you?

When you are obtuse, no.

Actually it's quite clear, but you have chosen not to see it.  Your loss.

[Chris_]

"peer reviewed"...sounds like TNO.  BTW, "cause we said so" is pretty weak for a bunch of scientists who promote theory as fact.

No, "peer reviewed" means something in science.  It means that fellow scientists in the area of expertise have reviewed the material and found it independently validated.  And no one says a theory is a fact.  You need to learn what a scientific theory is. For example, the Theory of Gravity is a great debating point in scientific circles.  But since it is "only" a  theory, do you deny gravity? You are a lay person with little to no knowledge of these things.  Do you have an opinion on brain surgery?  Quantum Physics?  The Relational Model (this, BTW is my area of expertise)? 

...but if I choose to accept the analysis and evidence presented by those who disagree with your POV, I must be wrong...?   
In this Universe 1+1=2.  There is a SCIENTIFIC reason this is so -- it is based on Mathematical Theories.  The fact you don't understand those theories doesn't undo the conclusion.  It isn't a POV, it is provable, based on the underlying theories.

Well, you have chosen to suggest that billions of people throughout the world over many centuries who have studied a written history dating back thousands of years is false, the onus is on you to prove it....scientifically.  Good luck with that.

There is no such onus on me.  The Bible is a theological reference.  Or are you calling the Catholic Church and its BILLIONS of adherents wrong for understanding TToE?  When you decide the Bible is a scientific text, then you need to provide scientific proof supporting that allegation. 

Scientists don't "just say so."  They prove things using independent measurements and rigorous principles.  Faith "just says so."

Ah, now it's clear...you worship science above all else.  That explains a lot.

[Chris_]

My faith hasn't been attacked.  FD is just showing a profound lack of it.

I am a Christian.

...you don't even see it, do you?

When you are obtuse, no.

Actually it's quite clear, but you have chosen not to see it.  Your loss.

I see that reducing God's magnificence to The Q Writ Large and that not to use His greatest gift to Man, the ability to think and reason and try to explore and Understand His Universe and its wonders is sad.

[Chris_]

"peer reviewed"...sounds like TNO.  BTW, "cause we said so" is pretty weak for a bunch of scientists who promote theory as fact.

No, "peer reviewed" means something in science.  It means that fellow scientists in the area of expertise have reviewed the material and found it independently validated.  And no one says a theory is a fact.  You need to learn what a scientific theory is. For example, the Theory of Gravity is a great debating point in scientific circles.  But since it is "only" a  theory, do you deny gravity? You are a lay person with little to no knowledge of these things.  Do you have an opinion on brain surgery?  Quantum Physics?  The Relational Model (this, BTW is my area of expertise)? 

...but if I choose to accept the analysis and evidence presented by those who disagree with your POV, I must be wrong...?   
In this Universe 1+1=2.  There is a SCIENTIFIC reason this is so -- it is based on Mathematical Theories.  The fact you don't understand those theories doesn't undo the conclusion.  It isn't a POV, it is provable, based on the underlying theories.

Well, you have chosen to suggest that billions of people throughout the world over many centuries who have studied a written history dating back thousands of years is false, the onus is on you to prove it....scientifically.  Good luck with that.

There is no such onus on me.  The Bible is a theological reference.  Or are you calling the Catholic Church and its BILLIONS of adherents wrong for understanding TToE?  When you decide the Bible is a scientific text, then you need to provide scientific proof supporting that allegation. 

Scientists don't "just say so."  They prove things using independent measurements and rigorous principles.  Faith "just says so."

Ah, now it's clear...you worship science above all else.  That explains a lot.

I UNDERSTAND science and see it as a useful tool for exploring the Universe. You don't get to plant your interpretation where none exists.

[Chris_]

"peer reviewed"...sounds like TNO.  BTW, "cause we said so" is pretty weak for a bunch of scientists who promote theory as fact.

No, "peer reviewed" means something in science.  It means that fellow scientists in the area of expertise have reviewed the material and found it independently validated.  And no one says a theory is a fact.  You need to learn what a scientific theory is. For example, the Theory of Gravity is a great debating point in scientific circles.  But since it is "only" a  theory, do you deny gravity? You are a lay person with little to no knowledge of these things.  Do you have an opinion on brain surgery?  Quantum Physics?  The Relational Model (this, BTW is my area of expertise)? 

...but if I choose to accept the analysis and evidence presented by those who disagree with your POV, I must be wrong...?   
In this Universe 1+1=2.  There is a SCIENTIFIC reason this is so -- it is based on Mathematical Theories.  The fact you don't understand those theories doesn't undo the conclusion.  It isn't a POV, it is provable, based on the underlying theories.

Well, you have chosen to suggest that billions of people throughout the world over many centuries who have studied a written history dating back thousands of years is false, the onus is on you to prove it....scientifically.  Good luck with that.

There is no such onus on me.  The Bible is a theological reference.  Or are you calling the Catholic Church and its BILLIONS of adherents wrong for understanding TToE?  When you decide the Bible is a scientific text, then you need to provide scientific proof supporting that allegation. 

Scientists don't "just say so."  They prove things using independent measurements and rigorous principles.  Faith "just says so."

Ah, now it's clear...you worship science above all else.  That explains a lot.

I UNDERSTAND science and see it as a useful tool for exploring the Universe. You don't get to plant your interpretation where none exists.

So when your science conflicts with God's word whom do you choose?  Now who is planting interpretations?   

[The Night Owl]

So when your science conflicts with God's word whom do you choose?  Now who is planting interpretations?   

When you make the claim that mankind has no proof that the Earth is billions of years old, you are making a claim which invites scientific scrutiny.

[Chris_]

"peer reviewed"...sounds like TNO.  BTW, "cause we said so" is pretty weak for a bunch of scientists who promote theory as fact.

No, "peer reviewed" means something in science.  It means that fellow scientists in the area of expertise have reviewed the material and found it independently validated.  And no one says a theory is a fact.  You need to learn what a scientific theory is. For example, the Theory of Gravity is a great debating point in scientific circles.  But since it is "only" a  theory, do you deny gravity? You are a lay person with little to no knowledge of these things.  Do you have an opinion on brain surgery?  Quantum Physics?  The Relational Model (this, BTW is my area of expertise)? 

...but if I choose to accept the analysis and evidence presented by those who disagree with your POV, I must be wrong...?   :whatever:
In this Universe 1+1=2.  There is a SCIENTIFIC reason this is so -- it is based on Mathematical Theories.  The fact you don't understand those theories doesn't undo the conclusion.  It isn't a POV, it is provable, based on the underlying theories.

Well, you have chosen to suggest that billions of people throughout the world over many centuries who have studied a written history dating back thousands of years is false, the onus is on you to prove it....scientifically.  Good luck with that.

There is no such onus on me.  The Bible is a theological reference.  Or are you calling the Catholic Church and its BILLIONS of adherents wrong for understanding TToE?  When you decide the Bible is a scientific text, then you need to provide scientific proof supporting that allegation. 

Scientists don't "just say so."  They prove things using independent measurements and rigorous principles.  Faith "just says so."

Ah, now it's clear...you worship science above all else.  That explains a lot.

I UNDERSTAND science and see it as a useful tool for exploring the Universe. You don't get to plant your interpretation where none exists.

So when your science conflicts with God's word whom do you choose?  Now who is planting interpretations?   :whatever:

It isn't MY science.  You see that thingy there?  The doohickey that lets you post information on that internet-thing?  With the screen and the little letters on the keys?  That is the result of science.  Not faith, science.  You can try to move the goalposts all you want, but you have yet to address any of my posts head on.  Rhetoric ain't gonna cut it.

There is ZERO conflict between science and faith.  None.

And you have yet to answer my question about Catholicism.  Are you saying Catholics don't worship God because they understand TToE?

Answer directly, if it is at all possible for you (which I suspect it isn't).

And your "whatever" icon doesn't make any difference.  There are very real issues here and you have yet to prove any of your points.  I have supported every single contention I have made with hard facts and complete reasoning.  You ignore them because you can't answer them.

Sadly, people like you make Conservatives look like a bunch of luddite moonbats.

[The Night Owl]

Sheesh, guys. Relax. I see no need for the name-calling.

[Chris_]

Sheesh, guys. Relax. I see no need for the name-calling.

I didn't call anyone names. I said makes conservatives LOOK LIKE luddite moonbats.

[Chris_]

There is ZERO conflict between science and faith.  None.

And yet you post numerous times that the Bible is not true.  That would seem to be a conflict.  So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  It's a simple question, but seems to have struck a nerve with you.

Oh, BTW, I'm not Catholic.  I don't speak for Catholics.  You want to argue with a Catholic, go right ahead.

Still waiting for that answer to such a simple question...the one you keep dodging.

 

[Chris_]

There is ZERO conflict between science and faith.  None.

And yet you post numerous times that the Bible is not true.  That would seem to be a conflict.  So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  It's a simple question, but seems to have struck a nerve with you.

Oh, BTW, I'm not Catholic.  I don't speak for Catholics.  You want to argue with a Catholic, go right ahead.

Still waiting for that answer to such a simple question...the one you keep dodging.

 

There is no conflict.  The Bible is an allegorical book used to guide how you live your life.  It is not a scientific text.  Therefore there is no question at hand.  Science and  the Bible don't disagree.  And you were the one who posited that the Bible is used as a science text by billions.  I offer you billions who believe as do I that there is no conflict.  You have no answer?  You say that Catholics aren't worshipping the same God as you?

And you have dodged EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I HAVE POSED TO YOU. 

Let's go back over a few:

1. You say the Bible is the literal word of God. Have you read it in its original Arameic and Greek?  How do you explain the discrepencies between Genesis I and Genesis II?
2. There is scientific proof in peer-reviewed journals of there being no world wide flood. What fact-based, peer-reviewed scientific refutation do you have for that?
3.  Catholicism, the largest Christian denomination on the planet with over a billion adherents, says there was no global flood and understands TToE.  Are these billions all wrong?

Once you get past these easy ones we can go to the tougher ones.

[Chris_]

There is ZERO conflict between science and faith.  None.

And yet you post numerous times that the Bible is not true.  That would seem to be a conflict.  So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  It's a simple question, but seems to have struck a nerve with you.

Oh, BTW, I'm not Catholic.  I don't speak for Catholics.  You want to argue with a Catholic, go right ahead.

Still waiting for that answer to such a simple question...the one you keep dodging.

 

There is no conflict.  The Bible is an allegorical book used to guide how you live your life.  It is not a scientific text.  Therefore there is no question at hand.  Science and  the Bible don't disagree.  And you were the one who posited that the Bible is used as a science text by billions.  I offer you billions who believe as do I that there is no conflict.  You have no answer?  You say that Catholics aren't worshipping the same God as you?

And you have dodged EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I HAVE POSED TO YOU. 

Let's go back over a few:

1. You say the Bible is the literal word of God. Have you read it in its original Arameic and Greek?  How do you explain the discrepencies between Genesis I and Genesis II?
2. There is scientific proof in peer-reviewed journals of there being no world wide flood. What fact-based, peer-reviewed scientific refutation do you have for that?
3.  Catholicism, the largest Christian denomination on the planet with over a billion adherents, says there was no global flood and understands TToE.  Are these billions all wrong?

Once you get past these easy ones we can go to the tougher ones.

Here, let me repeat it for you:
So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  Genesis agrees with Darwin?   ROFL.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that science and the Bible have zero differences.   
No real need for you to answer again...you already have.  You worship science.  That is your choice.  Why not admit it?

[Chris_]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness  2 Timothy 3:16

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  2 Peter 1:20-21

[djones520]

Come on...you are making claims you cannot back up.  There are zero credible "data points" to prove the flood did not happen.  There is certainly no proof that the earth if 4 billion years old

I noticed the smile.  I assume that means you are kidding.

isn't a smile.

I can't tell -- that's why I don't use them little commie dealies.

Anyway, here you go: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#georecord

When you are done there, I can start supplying geology books, you know by professional geologists who only do this for a living as opposed to you... your Life Science PhD is in which field again?...

Might wanna back of Freedumb.  Otherwise people are gonna get ripshit pissed at you for attacking their faith.

Good point.  I don't want to get anyone upset.  God, can you imagine the ruckus if I brought up The Theory of Gravity?

 

[Chris_]

There is ZERO conflict between science and faith.  None.

And yet you post numerous times that the Bible is not true.  That would seem to be a conflict.  So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  It's a simple question, but seems to have struck a nerve with you.

Oh, BTW, I'm not Catholic.  I don't speak for Catholics.  You want to argue with a Catholic, go right ahead.

Still waiting for that answer to such a simple question...the one you keep dodging.

 

There is no conflict.  The Bible is an allegorical book used to guide how you live your life.  It is not a scientific text.  Therefore there is no question at hand.  Science and  the Bible don't disagree.  And you were the one who posited that the Bible is used as a science text by billions.  I offer you billions who believe as do I that there is no conflict.  You have no answer?  You say that Catholics aren't worshipping the same God as you?

And you have dodged EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I HAVE POSED TO YOU. 

Let's go back over a few:

1. You say the Bible is the literal word of God. Have you read it in its original Arameic and Greek?  How do you explain the discrepencies between Genesis I and Genesis II?
2. There is scientific proof in peer-reviewed journals of there being no world wide flood. What fact-based, peer-reviewed scientific refutation do you have for that?
3.  Catholicism, the largest Christian denomination on the planet with over a billion adherents, says there was no global flood and understands TToE.  Are these billions all wrong?

Once you get past these easy ones we can go to the tougher ones.

Here, let me repeat it for you:
So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  Genesis agrees with Darwin?   ROFL.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that science and the Bible have zero differences.   
No real need for you to answer again...you already have.  You worship science.  That is your choice.  Why not admit it?

You clearly are incapable of understanding my answer -- there is no conflict.  I have stated that case and I stand by it.  I am a Christian.  Or are you saying Catholics aren't Christians?

Now answer my questions.

[Chris_]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness  2 Timothy 3:16

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  2 Peter 1:20-21

So, that exempts you from reading those words in their original language?  How do you know their meaning hasn't been altered through translation?

If you don't read the Bible in its original language then you aren't reading the Literal Word of God.  And generally, that is OK, since the Bible is meant to show you Man's relationship to God, bot man's relationship to matter and energy.

[Chris_]

There is ZERO conflict between science and faith.  None.

And yet you post numerous times that the Bible is not true.  That would seem to be a conflict.  So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  It's a simple question, but seems to have struck a nerve with you.

Oh, BTW, I'm not Catholic.  I don't speak for Catholics.  You want to argue with a Catholic, go right ahead.

Still waiting for that answer to such a simple question...the one you keep dodging.

 

There is no conflict.  The Bible is an allegorical book used to guide how you live your life.  It is not a scientific text.  Therefore there is no question at hand.  Science and  the Bible don't disagree.  And you were the one who posited that the Bible is used as a science text by billions.  I offer you billions who believe as do I that there is no conflict.  You have no answer?  You say that Catholics aren't worshipping the same God as you?

And you have dodged EVERY SINGLE QUESTION I HAVE POSED TO YOU. 

Let's go back over a few:

1. You say the Bible is the literal word of God. Have you read it in its original Arameic and Greek?  How do you explain the discrepencies between Genesis I and Genesis II?
2. There is scientific proof in peer-reviewed journals of there being no world wide flood. What fact-based, peer-reviewed scientific refutation do you have for that?
3.  Catholicism, the largest Christian denomination on the planet with over a billion adherents, says there was no global flood and understands TToE.  Are these billions all wrong?

Once you get past these easy ones we can go to the tougher ones.

Here, let me repeat it for you:
So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  Genesis agrees with Darwin?   ROFL.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that science and the Bible have zero differences.   
No real need for you to answer again...you already have.  You worship science.  That is your choice.  Why not admit it?

You clearly are incapable of understanding my answer -- there is no conflict.  I have stated that case and I stand by it.  I am a Christian.  Or are you saying Catholics aren't Christians?

Now answer my questions.

You seem to have a real problem with Catholics and their beliefs.

Genesis agrees with Darwin?   ROFL

1 Co 2:14  

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from
the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot
understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 John 4:6

We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is
not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of
truth and the spirit of falsehood.

2 TI 3:16

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching,
rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

[Chris_]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness  2 Timothy 3:16

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  2 Peter 1:20-21

So, that exempts you from reading those words in their original language?  How do you know their meaning hasn't been altered through translation?

You do all that scientific research yourself?  How do you know the results hasn't been altered?  It all depends on where you choose to place your faith first.

If you don't read the Bible in its original language then you aren't reading the Literal Word of God.  And generally, that is OK, since the Bible is meant to show you Man's relationship to God, bot man's relationship to matter and energy.

[Splashdown]

Here, let me repeat it for you:
So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  Genesis agrees with Darwin?   ROFL.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that science and the Bible have zero differences.   
No real need for you to answer again...you already have.  You worship science.  That is your choice.  Why not admit it?

Don't want to jump into a crocodile pond here, but I'd like to point out one small thing. Not Darwin, necessarily, but the creation story and the scientific theory of world origins match up surprisingly well. I did a paper on this in college.

The order of creation in Genesis--God creating the heavens and the earth, let there be light, etc., etc., match up pretty closely with the Big Bang theory. Man was created last, according to Genesis, and we're evolutionary late-comers, according to scientists. When you consider the limitations of the languages of antiquity, it gets pretty interesting. What is time to God? How can there be a day, for example, when there was no earth to rotate yet, and no sun to shine?

Some of it is pretty intruiging. The comparisons are really interesting.

[Chris_]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness  2 Timothy 3:16

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  2 Peter 1:20-21

So, that exempts you from reading those words in their original language?  How do you know their meaning hasn't been altered through translation?

You do all that scientific research yourself?  How do you know the results hasn't been altered?  It all depends on where you choose to place your faith first.

If you don't read the Bible in its original language then you aren't reading the Literal Word of God.  And generally, that is OK, since the Bible is meant to show you Man's relationship to God, bot man's relationship to matter and energy.

I do read scientific journals, so yes I read the published works (which is how science operates) in their original form.  I also read the critiques.

So, are you going to answer my very easy questions? or will you just keep throwing things at me? if you are defeated, then say so then everyone can go home.

[MrsSmith]

Here, let me repeat it for you:
So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?  Genesis agrees with Darwin?   ROFL.
Yeah, keep telling yourself that science and the Bible have zero differences.   
No real need for you to answer again...you already have.  You worship science.  That is your choice.  Why not admit it?

Don't want to jump into a crocodile pond here, but I'd like to point out one small thing. Not Darwin, necessarily, but the creation story and the scientific theory of world origins match up surprisingly well. I did a paper on this in college.

The order of creation in Genesis--God creating the heavens and the earth, let there be light, etc., etc., match up pretty closely with the Big Bang theory. Man was created last, according to Genesis, and we're evolutionary late-comers, according to scientists. When you consider the limitations of the languages of antiquity, it gets pretty interesting. What is time to God? How can there be a day, for example, when there was no earth to rotate yet, and no sun to shine?

Some of it is pretty intruiging. The comparisons are really interesting.

What I find incredible is that so many people think that Genesis was written by Moses instead of merely scribed by him.  What human would ever say that light came before the sun? 

[Chris_]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness  2 Timothy 3:16

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.  2 Peter 1:20-21

So, that exempts you from reading those words in their original language?  How do you know their meaning hasn't been altered through translation?

You do all that scientific research yourself?  How do you know the results hasn't been altered?  It all depends on where you choose to place your faith first.

If you don't read the Bible in its original language then you aren't reading the Literal Word of God.  And generally, that is OK, since the Bible is meant to show you Man's relationship to God, bot man's relationship to matter and energy.

I do read scientific journals, so yes I read the published works (which is how science operates) in their original form.  I also read the critiques.

So, are you going to answer my very easy questions? or will you just keep throwing things at me? if you are defeated, then say so then everyone can go home.

So you read the "published works" but not the original notes from the research.  ..and the critiques...
See the comparison?

So where is your faith when they do not agree....science or God?